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12 days in Italy and France help!

Hi I and my husband ( we are 26 and 27) are planning a 12 day trip to Italy and France (excluding Paris) in mid November. We haven't made flight reservations and waiting for some suggestions. 1.We need help in planning the itineary 2.Which city to fly in and out. 3.How to travel in between the cities in Italy and France. 4.How to travel between Italy and France. We are active couple and want to see as much as we can in those 12 days. In Italy- we want to see =================== 1. Rome 2.Pompeii 3.Venice 4.Naples 5.Amalfi coast 6.Tuscany 7.florence 8.Manarola, Cinque Terre(if possible) France we want to see ================= 1.Nice, Cote d' Azur 2.St. Tropez, French Riviera 3.Aix-en-Provence 4.le-baux 5.Arles 6.Monaco Is this possible to cover all this in 12 days?
We will be travelling from USA. We will make the reservations upon the suggestions! Please help.

Posted by
515 posts

You should factor in the possibility of rain in mid November. Not necessarily a bad thing (for me), but you should expect some rainy days, possible many. Also ... your itinerary seems to involve spending very little time in any one location. When I come up with my own "hit list" of a dozen or so places for a trip, I edit it to pick the 2 or 3 places that are non-negotiable, in other words my trip would be ruined if I did not visit them. I try to spend the most time there, with optional day trips to the second tier of possibilities.

Posted by
1825 posts

Even though it seems easy to travel between France and Italy, it isn't. If it was they would probably be the same country but that's another history lesson. I just did France and Italy last month with my wife. With my wisdom of a one trip to Europe... I would suggest doing less. I'd spend five days in Rome, two in Florence and two in Tuscany. Then plan on a long day of travel to get to France. Based in Provence I'd explore the area for several days with a rental car.

Posted by
10177 posts

That is a very ambitious plan. You have 14 places in 2 countries listed, to see on your 12 day trip. Does that include your travel time to/from the West coast? Also, you have not taken into consideration the time it takes to travel from one location to the next. I would choose either Italy or France and stick to one country. Mid-November is not really 'beach' weather. With 12 days you could see a decent amount of Italy if you exclude beach and coastal places. You could fly into Venice, spend time in Tuscany and end in Rome (or visa versa). When determining how long to stay in each place, keep in mind that if you stay somewhere for 2 nights, that only gives you one full day in that location. Have you ever traveled to Europe? Although I have never experienced true jet lag (well, maybe on the way home!), you will be tired upon arrival. Trains are typically the best way to get around. It does take time though. Figure at least half a day or more for each location change. Unless you only plan to see Florence and Siena in Tuscany, a car is the best way to get around there. Have fun with your trip planning!

Posted by
130 posts

My husband and I are also very active (25 and 28), and after a lot of research, we chose to focus on Italy- woth 3 days in Venice, 3 in Manarola, 3 in Florence (with a trip into Tuscany) and 5 in Rome (with a day trip to Pompeii). As you can see, we have 14 nights, and this is what I felt the most we could stretch it, and actually see places. If you even tried to see all the above places, you would be spending most of your time on a train (or driving/flying)... you actually have more places listed than nights.
As others have said, make a few "musts", then schedule around it :)

Posted by
32171 posts

Sahitya, IMHO, visiting 14-locations in 12-days across such a wide area is simply NOT going to be possible. Each time you change location, you'll need to allow at least half a day for travel time (and often more). Does your 12-days include the travel days to and from Europe? To begin with, I'd suggest skipping all the locations south of Rome (Pompeii, Naples, Amalfi Coast). For flights you might consider inbound Milan and outbound Rome. Availability of flights to Europe in November likely won't be as good as the summer, so that may dictate which airports you use. With such a short time frame, you may only (realistically) have time for two or three locations each in France and Italy. Regarding Monaco, it can easily be done as a day trip from Nice. As I recall, the Bus fare is only €1. That would also allow a brief look at Monte Carlo, which is just across the Bay. Note that if you want to go inside the famous Casino, there's a "dress code" so you'll need to have proper clothing. The easiest and quickest way to travel between cities is usually by train, especially the "fast" trains such as the EuroStar Italia / Alta Velocita in Italy. However, those are more expensive than the slower regional trains, so be sure to allow for that in your budget. If this is your first trip to Europe, I'd highly recommend reading Europe Through The Back Door ASAP! Use the "Italy" and "France" Guidebooks to plan sightseeing, Hotels, etc. Good luck with your planning!

Posted by
12 posts

Thank you so much to each and everyone for shedding light and making it clear. After seeing all the suggestions we decided to travel just to Italy in that 10-12 day time span. But still I want to visit these in Italy In Italy- we want to see =================== 1. Rome 2.Pompeii 3.Venice 4.Naples 5.Amalfi coast 6.Tuscany 7.florence
8.Manarola, Cinque Terre(if possible) Is this doable? What would be a good itineary? We haven't made reservations for the flights and plan accordingly. Also, due to the bad season/weather will there be any chances of missing out on anything? Any special suggestions? Thanks

Posted by
515 posts

I've been to Venice in mid November twice. I loved it. Very few tourists and no lines for anything - for example I just cruised into St Marks whenever I wanted to as I walked by. There were cold drizzle days, sunny warm days, cold crisp days, a couple of raging storms and several aqua alta days. Have Gortex Will Travel. For me, Venice is perfect in rain because the rain and mist add to the mystique. The vaporettos are dry and so are the vaporreto stops. Do not take one of those large golf umbrellas because they will not fit into some of the small "streets". Each visit, I planned to take a 2 day trip by train up into the Dolomites to play in the snow. But, when I had Venice to myself, I never wanted to leave Venice. Caveat: my trips were two weeks long, each. So I had a shot at good weather at some point in 14 days - and I got it. If you do 3 days, you may or may not get good weather days.

Posted by
951 posts

i went to Italy last year for a 16 day trip where I did the following: Milan 1, Florence 3, Siena 2, Assisi 2, Rome 4, and Venice 3 nights. I found this to be the perfect amount of time to spend in each city without being super stressed. I was able to see everything that I had wanted to. With that said, when I was investigating my trip and researching where to go, I found that a lot of Sorrento hotels were closed starting the month of November. I went at the end of November and left the 1st Saturday in December. So basically, some of your coastal towns may not be in effect during your time of travel. I flew into Milan and flew out of Venice, as it was the cheapest route for me and my travels. I back tracked a bit from Rome to Venice but the airfare could not be beat. Good luck.

Posted by
11247 posts

Sahitya: This is still an ambitious trip! But, in the spirit of trying to help you see all you want to see, please consider the following ideas. FWIW, I like to think of my trips in terms of nights, not days, so I count the number of nights I stay in a place, and know that my touring time is basically 1/2 day after I arrive and full days "between the nights." As Ken mentioned, it takes at least 1/2 a day to change locations, and that's if you get up early and get moving! Fly into Venice, spend 3 nights. This gives you 2 1/2 days to experience Venice. Train to Florence, spend 4 nights and daytrip to hilltowns. Since Florence is in Tuscany, technically you are seeing Tuscany, but I assume you want to see a hilltown or two. You can take a bus to Siena for a day, and also to any number of other hilltowns. You just need to decide how to spend the 3 1/2 days you'll have in the area. Train to Rome for your last 5 nights. Take a long daytrip to Naples and Pompeii. This would be a good situation in which to splurge on an escorted tour from Rome to Naples to see the museum, on to Pompeii, and back to Rome so you don't have to worry about logistics. I know this seems like a lot of nights, but you can do so much in Rome in addition to going to Naples and Pompeii. You can daytrip to Orvieto for another experience, for example. Read a good guidebook and get an idea of planning your time. By staying 5 nights in Rome you minimize time lost to relocating. Check this link for ideas http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/destinations/italy/rome3.htm. Fly out of Rome. The Cinque Terre literally shuts down November thru February. Not worth the time it will take you to get there. It's a long trip in to the CT. Save it for a spring or summer trip in the future. Ditto the Amalfi Coast.

Posted by
257 posts

My suggestion, Fly in Naples (NAP) Day 1 - Sorrento ( Bus from Nap to Sorrento 1:15) Day 2 - Sorrento, visit Amalfi Coast Day 3 - Sorrento, Visit Amalfi Coast, Capri Island. Day 4 - Rome, Stop by Pompeii. ( Sorrento to Pompeii 30 minutes by train, Pompeii to Naples train station 30 minutes, Naples to Rome 1:15 minutes) Day 5 - Rome Day 6 - Rome Day 7 - Venice (Rome to Venice 3 hours) Day 8 - Venice Day 9 - Florence (Venice to Florence 2 hours) Day 10- Florence Day 11- CT (Florence to CT 3 hours) Day 11 - CT Day 12 - Fly back from Pisa (PSA) (CT to PSA 1:30 ) If you have one more day, I will stay one more night in Florence. I will not spend any time in Naples, too much problems there.
Have a good trip!

Posted by
201 posts

We are also an active couple and plan on an active, busy trip to Italy in the Fall so perhaps what we have planned might suit you to help hit most of what you'd like to see: Fly into Venice, 2 nights Train to Florence, 3 nights - taking 12 hour tour to Cinque Terre one of those days Train to Rome with a stop in Orvieto for several hours and then continue train to Rome Rome - 4 nights Train to Sorrento, 3 nights
Fly out of Naples Sorrento can easily reach Pompeii and Capri but is closer to the Amalfi Coast and with the limited time you have, you want to save any extra travel time where you can. As someone else mentioned, there may not be as many options for flying back when it isn't high season so you should research which cities are available to fly in and out of first as you will want an open jaw ticket to save back-tracking wasting more of your time on travel.

Posted by
32171 posts

Sahitya, Could you clarify whether you have 14-days or 12-days in total for this trip??? My suggestions would be similar to those listed by Laurel, however it would help to know what time frame you're working with.

Posted by
12 posts

We have 12 days for the trip. Another concern of mine is -- amalfi coast. I really want to go there. Is it totally closes during mid Nocember? Even though it's cold we want to drive by the coast and enjoythe beauty.

Posted by
951 posts

When I was planning my trip, all the places that I wanted to stay in Sorrento were closed. I am talking about hotel/B&B listings in the Rick Steves guide book. I am not saying I checked them all, (maybe I did, maybe I didn't, I don't remember), but it was easy for me to rule Sorrento out because the handful of places that I wanted to stay were totally not open during November. If you are using a RS guide book, check out his listings and plug in the dates you want to be in Sorrento and see what happens. If you go at the beginning of November, you may be in luck. I was going at the end of November, I was not in luck, so I didn't worry about visiting anything south of Rome. More time for the places that mattered to me anyways.

Posted by
973 posts

I've been to all those except the CT. Going in mid November the weather will not be predictable. Last year we had 3 days in Venice: one cloudy and cold day ( with aqua alta), one overcast day with 3-4 hours of gorgeous sun- and one day of hard rain and chill, the kind of day it makes it easier to leave. Same experience in Milan- one good day, one OK day, and the equivalent day of rain in the form of snow and sleet.
Which brings me to my point about driving the beautiful coast of Italy in the cold is not like driving the 101 by any comparison IMO, except you are in a car, there is a road, and there are other people trying to go faster. Much of the fun of being on the Italian or French Rivieras is the people watching and seeing the beautiful green landscapes in tandem.

Posted by
32171 posts

Sahitya, Thanks for the clarification on the time frame of your trip. Note that you'll lose the first day in travel times and time zone changes and will arrive in Europe the day AFTER you depart the U.S. The last day will be spent on the trip home, which means you'll actually have only TEN days for touring. With such a VERY short trip, you'll need to prioritize and skip some of the locations you had planned (unless you can get more time). Could you indicate which four (or so) places in your most recent Itinerary are most important to both of you? You could perhaps structure the trip something like this: > Day 1 - Flight to Florence (probably via Frankfurt at that time of the year - inbound to Milan is another option) > Day 2 - Arrive Florence (which is in Tuscany); recover from jet lag > Day 3,4 - Florence, touring > Day 5,6,7 - Train to Rome & touring > Day 8 - Train to Sorrento via Naples > Day 9,10 - Sorrento, Pompeii and Amalfi coast touring (whatever you can fit in - be sure check as some sights or lodgings may be closed) > Day 11 (afternoon) - Train back to Rome > Day 12 - Flight back to the U.S. (you'll generally arrive in the U.S. the same day you depart Europe). As the others have said, the weather in November may be unpredictable so you'll need to prepare accordingly. As Rick often says, "there's no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing". Good luck with your planning!