The Utterly Unreliable TripAdvisor and TheFork ratings in Puglia

Tripadvisor's system is fundamentally flawed and not fit for purpose. Scores are not reset when businesses change owners - even with a long period of closure in between. And that's before you get to the fraudulent or malicious reviews.

Never head of TheFork until now, but just tried it for my home town in England. Best rated 10/10 isn't in this town at all!!! Just another example of how foreign editors (or millenial Brits) don't understand the Royal Mail address system. Even worse, half are not even in the same county! With unreliablity like that why even read the reviews?

Thanks so much for your cogent reply! I wholeheartedly agree. Which leaves me wondering what to consult for worthwhile perspectives on restaurants. I've found Michelin to be utterly unreliable, as well - for years - no matter what city I'm traveling to.

if you are ever in the UK try https://www.scoresonthedoors.org.uk/ it gives no guarantee of food value or quality but it might help you survive it!

Unfortunately it is just a result of crowdsourced reviews. They are just too easy to fake, often are driven out of anger or spite, and rarely done by a knowledgeable, unbiased reviewer. They often feature popularity over quality, and focus on rather trivial issues to give 1 or 5 stars. Michelin I can't really comment on, don't use them, and usually have no interest in the type of places that they award stars to.

For recommendations for restaurants, I do like a more curated list; TimeOut, in some locations does a good job (mostly the UK and places where Brits vacation), and some other food sites. I also like to look for blogs, especially by locals. Not that they may not be biased, or all even helpful, but by reading a number of entries, you can get an idea if the person writing, has similar tastes and interests.

We don’t go to starred Michelin restaurants, but we find the recommendations for the non-starred restaurants reliable, at least in France. I wonder what went wrong with their recommendation system in Puglia. .

I usually go with tried and true websites like Time Out and Eater. And of course this forum. :-)

Michelin has never steered me wrong, whether it’s in France or in other countries. And contrary to what some people think, their guides and websites not only feature high end restaurants that are awarded 1, 2 or 3 stars. I’m a big fan of their Bib Gourmand category.
In addition to Michelin, I also use Gault&Millau.

Which Michelin-listed restaurants disappointed you? And which Michelin 1 or 2-stars did you enjoy (I'm asking for my own visit in the fall)

For Puglia, I would trust the Michelin guide and go for the Bib Gourmand or the one stars. In Puglia, one does not need starred places much.
Trip Advisor is not a site I would trust for restaurants, anywhere. I find them kind of a joke.
The Fork only lists places that pay for the privilege, like Open Table or Resy
Google, I find good to consult sometimes but I would never choose a place to eat based only on their reviews

For me, the most reliable sources of food and restaurants in Italy, not in this order, are:

Gambero Rosso online newsletter

SlowFood Osterie guide, recently available online in English; printed guides have been only in Italian for the last fifteen years or so

Luciano Pignataro--concentrates on southern Italy and has English translation; very strong on wine; good for restaurants and somewhat good for agriturismi

Katie Parla (ex-New Jersey, ow lives in Rome) has some good information on Puglia

There are other food sites in Italian and if you can make out some of the words, I find them helpful.

***But most of all, you can get recent information from English-speaking travelers on HungryOnion.org, the successor to Chowhound. Most important, if you join, you can ask questions: most members are pretty serious about restaurants, and food in general. You can learn a lot there.

To give you an example of HungryOnion, here are my own 2023 comments on a short visit to Vieste (in the Gargano).

https://www.hungryonion.org/t/gargano-peninsula-vieste/36074

For anyone headed for Matera, in adjacent Basilicata, this is from the same trip but before I began posting photos:

https://www.hungryonion.org/t/basilicata-three-nights-inland-between-maratea-and-canosa-di-puglia-including-2-nights-and-two-fantastic-dinners-in-matera-at-one-of-most-unusual-and-excellent-hotels-in-the-world/36261

We are returning to Puglia in October and will rely on those sites...

When possible I try to find locals who are involved with the food and restaurant industry and share their experiences and recommendations. In Italy, Elizabeth Minchilli and her daughter Sophie are excellent resources. Sophie in particular is very knowledgeable about Puglia as her father’s side of the family are from there and she knows the area well. She has a restaurant guide for that area and others in Italy.

On our recent trip to Torino, we had recommendations from cookbook author Mimi Thorisson who lives there.

The Michelin guide is not crowd sourced and I find it be a reliable indicator of quality. If you know a city well you might not 100% agree with their exact ratings but it’s a good steer in an unknown place.

Agree with Eliz Minchilli...she's written at least one book about Eating in Rome, and others about eating in Puglia and other regions. I do use Michelin, especially for regions of Italy and Spain not well covered by others--Abruzzo, Molise, parts of northern Puglia, Galicia in Spain, etc..

Marueen Fant's old red-covered guide to the trattorias of Rome, Florence, etc...it's worth buying used. Many of her recs are still around.

And no one covered the country as well as Fred Plotkin; his Gourmet Guide for Travelers to Italy is still a useful resource, even ifi some of the entries no longer exist. He's wonderful for background information about the foods of the country and has written specific books about Liguria, Fruili, etc.

For some northern regions: David Downie

For Campania: Carla Capalbo;s food and wine guide is excellent although again, some listings may be out of date.

It depends on how much research you want to do before and during your visit.

But the last place I would look for recommendations is TripAdvisor. Many great places, legendary among Italian food lovers, stand far down in the TA listings.

HungryOnion.org is the closest thing to the late Chowhound that's written in English....you can always ask there if you are looking for ideas in a specific town. They don't have much on Puglia, however.

Another possibility are the Fodor's Forums, online, where a few contributors post about food.

I was going to add Fodor's but you beat me to it.

Also, a good indicator of places to avoid is if they are high on TripAdvisor in the uk or usa and they appear in Travel & Leisure or similar conde nast or other megacorporate publications.

Cross site comparison is a good idea.

For a general test of any guide site just check a location you know so well you don't need to - and see how accurate it is. At one point I barely recognised my hometown in Tripadvisor......

Definitely makes sense to cross check, as Another Steve suggested. We have had some good hits on TA, but you need to actually read reviews, esp for recency, the bad ones, and native language. TA sure gave us a klunker in Monopoli. Hotel recommendations may be variable. One thing we learned a decade ago is to follow your nose and the sound of laughter among the diners.

From an earlier RS forum post I put up a few months back, perhaps other readers might find something of interest, below. (Our best Puglia meal was probably the restaurant mentioned in Bari):

Very nice lunch last April (2024) at La Nicchia nel Sasso in Matera

Other Restaurants - in southern Italy last April.
Bari - Ristorante Opera. Elegant dinner restaurant that was priced modestly. Quite enjoyed it and mentioned in our TR.

Polignano a Mare - Cucina Confidenzial. Lovely sandwiches for lunch on homemade buns. We enjoyed outdoor seating; there’s also seating inside.
Monopoli - our one poor meal in Puglia was dinner at Trip Advisor’s highly rated restaurant, Metae Ristorante.

Ostuni - Tami Cucina e Pizza. The pizza was excellent. A couple of downsides. The large green salad (with other vegetables) that we ordered had 4 tablespoon-sized scoops of pesto on it. We made the mistake of tossing the salad without removing 3 of the 4 scoops of pesto. The other downside was that it did not open for dinner until about half an hour after the scheduled opening, so we cooled our heels wandering around a bit. But the pizza was great!

Pisciotta - Osteria del Borgo was perhaps our best meal in southern Italy last April. We had wonderfully fresh fish and Linguine Limone.
Ischia Ponte - Our lunch at Ristorante da Ciccio was one of our three best meals in Italy. Pasta with mussels and a little pecorino cheese, a beautiful grilled mixed seafood plate and a Caprese salad with arugula added to the mix

I just wander ( my travel style ) and listen to conversations. Any American or British English I move on. I listen for Italian. That and I’ll ask the hotel cleaning staff.

Have never relied on Condé Nast or Tripadvisor or Michelin or….just don’t. First traveled in 1972. Those so called resources weren’t available so I learned to people watch and listen. If I saw construction workers, mothers or grandparents with children in strollers, and/or priests, nuns, I felt secure in eating at the place. Two best meals I ever had were in Italy. A place far off the beaten path in Venice where no English was spoken and another place in San Casiano dei Bagni.

Old school traveler. Don’t depend on the internet or travel books/guides. Have I gotten bad recommendations? Sure? Did it ruin my trip? No.

Travel is always an adventure.

Thank you so much, one and all, for your insights!!! I WISH I HAD REACHED OUT TO YOU ALL BEFORE MY TRIP!!! I'll know in future to do so.

To Fred - we also dined at Matea in Monopoli and it was not only the worst meal of the trip, it was one of the worst meals ever. The owner was literally THROWING the plates of food onto the table (and the food itself was bleck). Matea gets a 9.5/10 on TheFork and a 4.7 on both TA and Google.

Have any of you tried this tyrolean spot in Puglia?

https://www.bavarotti.it/galleria

I consult reviews and explore food writers contributions, but I also look at menus and suss out the general “vibe” of a place. You have not really explained what was so unacceptable about the places you chose or said what places you visited.
Sometimes, it comes down to bad luck. The notion that you cannot have a bad meal in Italy has been proven wrong time and again! I think sometimes expectations are too high, especially when a place gets a lot of hype.

Vadelphia - thanks for your reply. I've traveled throughout Italy a great many times for decades (ahem, dating myself!), and I hope my words didn't imply that I expected never to have a bad meal there. One can have a bad meal in any city, in any country, of course. I was simply bemoaning the unreliability of TripAdvisor and TheFork as a curator of worthwhile recommendations and querying this wonderful community what you all have found successful in researching restaurants in the past.

As for consulting the vibe of a restaurant, I personally have found this to be an unreliable indicator of quality (that's just been my personal experience). On this recent trip to Puglia, for example, pictures of the restaurant "Dish" showed a gorgeous view of Ostuni, "the white city," a smart looking, sophisticated interior, and plates of food which looked appetizing; however, all the dishes we ordered were bland -- under-seasoned and lacking inherent flavor. Similarly, the vibe at Matae in Monopoli from the pics I looked at on various platforms seemed to be on the money: a modern, even elegant interior that would seem to attract foodies and feature truly delicious cuisine. The food, however, (as I responded to another sympathetic and very helpful post above) was universally awful, and the owner was literally throwing our dinner plates onto the table and hurriedly sloshing wine in my glass. On the other hand, TA, TheFork, and Google featured pics of the restaurant "Nel Borgo" in Grottaglie showing a rather drab looking, small interior and a few tables outside near a square (not even on the square) - nothing really to indicate an enticing vibe. Yet the dishes were outstanding. From the antipasti - I'll never forget the humble roasted melanzana! - to the pastas and even an amazing steak (which can be hard to find in Puglia), this restaurant delivered delicious flavor, good value, and kind, attentive service.

I have very much appreciated the community's extremely helpful replies to my original query! Thank you, one and all, for taking the time to offer such helpful advice! I will take all of your suggestions under advisement in preparation for our next trip abroad!

We've consulted guidebooks and internet sites for restaurants but don't find them necessary. In Italy there is a lot of competition and a bad restaurant doesn't seem to last. We just follow locals and don't eat anywhere that faces a tourist site or presents a menu in English out front.