More than one Belfast Black taxi tour company??

Although you didn't mention this company, I wanted to share our wonderful experience with Taxi Tours NI during our day in Belfast. Our driver, Paul, was absolutely fantastic, and I wholeheartedly recommend their services. We worked with them ahead of time to plan our itinerary based on our interests, and they truly delivered. Paul arrived early to pick us up and was a pleasure to spend the day with. His jovial personality and professionalism made our tour so enjoyable. Just wanted to share our experience if you need an additional recommendation.

I used CabToursBelfast.com. I found the presentation a little canned, to be honest. I wish I had thought to ask for a Unionist driver, as I would have enjoyed hearing that perspective. I don't know if that's an option. I felt uncomfortable being photographed with the murals, especially the one where it looks like a gun is being pointed at you. Our driver didn't seem to understand that. But it's worth doing, especially if you plan to visit Derry and see the Bogside Murals. The contrast is quite striking. If you want to see Unionist murals without taking the cab tour, head to East Belfast. http://www.loyalistconflictmuseum.com/murals We stayed in this area, and it was very interesting to see these murals and memorials in the middle of a city that is rapidly becoming very diverse. It would not be unusual to see a woman in hijab walking past one of these sites.

I highly, highly recommend this company: http://belfastblackcabtours.co.uk and not the other, copycat Belfast Tours DOT Com (writing it this way, because I don’t want to link to them).

I detail the reasons for this in my 5th and 6th posts in my Ireland trip report: https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/countryside-castles-and-celts-croatia-and-ireland-trip-report-part-2-ireland

Makes me curious as to what your surname is now BB... I guess that was probably why you got a knockback. You're a month out on the 12th too. July 12th.

Also, ain't gonna be many folks in hijabs walking past loyalist murals G3rry.

I'm sorry, Gerry. I don't understand your post at all. Can you clarify?

The taxi driver would make assumptions about your religious orientation based on your name.

I was thinking about this thread again this morning. Maybe my other posts on the subject were a little bit cryptic for those not all that familiar with the situation in Northern Ireland.

I'd recommend going back and reading BB's trip report for some background as to what happened.

My post regarding BB's name; my assumption is that BB has a slightly Irish sounding name and that their business was refused by way of a lame excuse because they picked a loyalist black cab tour. People in Northern Ireland can instantly tell if you're catholic or protestant by your name (and your accent if you're from Belfast, and your face for that matter). BB was pegged as a Catholic by their name. If you look at the front page of the website for the company that let BB down, loyalist (protestant) murals are heavily featured. This is a clear indicator (to me at least) of the affiliation of the tours they give. The driver knew that their commentary and the sites they visited wouldn't be suitable for BB, and he probably hates taigs (derogatory term for Catholics) in his cab. It must have been missed at the booking stage.

My line about being a month out on the 12th relates to the 12th of July, the anniversary of the Battle of The Boyne, celebrated by protestants with what north Americans would call parades; the orange walks. It's a whole season of marching around that date celebrating the oppression of the Catholic community. It's also when the bonfires that BB mentioned are lit.

My response to G3rryCee mentioning how diverse Belfast is was to correct their misreading of the situation in east Belfast. There's not going to be anyone of Muslim faith walking past loyalist murals because the loyalist community is deeply Islamophobic and racist. If a Muslim family were to attempt to make their home in east Belfast, their living room window wouldn't last five minutes before a brick came through it. There would be men at their front door within the week, probably not even bothering to wear balaclavas as they ran them off the estate. In council estates on both sides of the divide it's not the Police Force of Northern Ireland that maintain law and order; it's paramilitaries and vigilantes.

Personally, I wouldn't entertain any of these black cab tours. To my mind, they're making a tourist attraction of hate, bitterness and violence. I grew up in the west of Scotland, Lanarkshire. While not as divided as Belfast, it shares many of the same attitudes. I knew who Bobby Sands was and what the H-Blocks were at age seven. I went to a rough Catholic high school in a working class area in the 80's. I've seen enough sectarian graffiti without having someone drive me around Belfast to see some more. The black cab itself is a symbol of the troubles because their drivers were complicit in facilitating terrorism on both sides.

Belfast doesn't have a lot going for it if this, alongside a museum dedicated to a large ship that sank killing thousands, is the best it can offer.

I'm willing to be robustly challenged on any of the points I make.

I like to post a link to music videos at the weekend here sometimes. What I wrote brings to mind U2's Sunday Bloody Sunday from the Rattle and Hum concert film. The definitive performance of this song, where Bono makes it crystal clear that "this is not a rebel song". Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/5Chq5PY-TzE?si=8ohBwbKnoqRFMfzD

I watched an episode of this rick steves fella and he said the protestants and catholics got into a bit of a row back during the plantation which was a long time ago and things haven't quite settled down ever since and so this guy rick said on his tv show and everything that maybe if we just learned to travel minding our ps and qs that things might be a wee bit more pleasant so, yeah, what do you all think, huh? Personally “black” cab or “white” cab or “Latino” cab makes no mind to me. Yep. Just so long as it takes you to where you wanna go. Now is there no tipping ‘cause it’s in the UK or is it 10% tipping because it’s in Ireland? And do I tip with euros or pounds or loonies or dollars or do they take American Express? And what’s with all the marching? March, march, march. Strolling is lovely while marching is kinda off putting if you ask me…. But back to the point: BB’s post was great! I loved his trip report! And liked everybody else’s too. Good discussion. Gerry seemed to be trying to explain things and here I am just mucking it up…. Re: Ruth’s original question — I can’t remember which company we used but the guy was good but he since we’re lapsed Unitarians, he sized us up real quick and took us to a pub for fish and chips rather than showing a bunch of murals… and fish was quite tasty. Good time! Happy travels!!!

Ah, thanks for clarifying, Gerry. I don't think that was it, though. My last name is usually thought to be German, based on the spelling (although it's not). But I would think the driver would have been given my name in advance, anyway, so I don't think that's what triggered him. My guess is he was unhappy there were only two of us (=less money), although I would think he'd know that in advance, too. Something definitely did set him off, though.

I do know that hostility and mistrust persist, and that the so-called "Peace Wall" had to be added to to make it higher a couple of times.

I do think the murals tours are very worthwhile, though. When I was a kid and a teen, I heard about the Troubles, but I didn't understand much about it, other than as a Catholic/Protestant thing. Visiting Northern Ireland, and, in particular, the murals tour, gave me a deeper understanding of the historical, colonial, and social class aspects of the conflict. We did visit both the Catholic and the Loyalist murals, but we were warned by more than one person that people on the Loyalist side tended to be more suspicious of tourists. When we were first left in the lurch, we thought about visiting them on our own, but we were advised not to do so. And, of course, we wouldn't have learned anywhere near as much.

Gerry, when we were in Scotland, we also learned a little bit about how the Scots were oppressed by the British, not allowed to speak their language, etc.

My husband and I are Cree (although I look more like my Swedish grandfather, and my husband looks more generic since his hair has turned grey). Anyway, we understand about being colonized by the British. We've said to our guides in both Scotland and Ireland that the British did similar things to us.

It doesn't sound like you've been to Belfast recently, GerryM. I was actually there last summer and stayed in East Belfast and saw with my eyes women in hijab walking in the very area I linked. I sure hope that they were not accosted in their homes when they got there. I would agree that the areas the cab tour took us to did seem less diverse. But then we were in a car, not walking as we were in East Belfast.
I agree that The Troubles as Tourist Attraction is problematic (witness my point about being photographed with the murals), but I think there is value in these tours.

Greatest religious joke of all time according to some by Emo Phillips:

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!"
He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in
God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A
Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said,
"Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I
said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said,
"Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or
Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern
Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative
Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great
Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or
Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He
said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of
1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

My last name is usually thought to be German, based on the spelling (although it's not). But I would think the driver would have been given my name in advance, anyway, so I don't think that's what triggered him. My guess is he was unhappy there were only two of us (=less money), although I would think he'd know that in advance, too. Something definitely did set him off, though.

Ok! So my spidey senses definitely let me down there. A triumph of economics over bigotry maybe then, which is a good thing, right? :)

Gerry, when we were in Scotland, we also learned a little bit about how the Scots were oppressed by the British, not allowed to speak their language, etc.

Not necessarily "the British". I think maybe "the English" is a more appropriate way to make that point if you will. From my personal standpoint, I've never felt oppressed by the English or Britishness in general. It's more nuanced. I'm just a lowlander with Irish immigrant heritage (that I know next to nothing about) on both sides so there's that. I'd define myself as Scottish first, British second. I have no problem with that. I tend to avoid anything to do with nationalism, patriotism, borders, flags and anthems like the plague. No Union Jacks, saltires or tricolours in my house and there never will be. I consider my Scottishness an accident of birth, no more, no less. Sure, my formative years in Scotland no doubt shaped me and gave me my accent, but it doesn't go any deeper than that for me. I'm maybe a bit of an oddball in that respect though. It's worth bearing in mind that I've spent a considerable chunk of my life in England at this point so that might have something to do with it too.

It doesn't sound like you've been to Belfast recently, GerryM. I was actually there last summer and stayed in East Belfast and saw with my eyes women in hijab walking in the very area I linked.

You're right. It is a long time since I was in Belfast (2009) and I didn't stay there. Pretty much as soon as I came off the ferry I put the pedal to the metal and headed for County Antrim, where I felt comfortable. The Glens of Antrim were largely untouched by the troubles, and all the better for it.

I'd hate to write off what you saw with your own eyes as an anomaly, but I based what I wrote earlier on what I know about loyalism, taken from a lifetime of awareness of both sides of the Northern Ireland issue; first hand in Scotland and the knowledge I've gleaned from reading, watching TV and speaking to people who grew up and / or live in Belfast. I think it's true that we all see the world through our own biases, and it's obvious to me that you "kick with the other foot", as they say. Absolutely fair. That's why I was absolutely transparent in mentioning what school I went to, so my biases were on show for all to see. "What school did you go to?" and "What team do you support?" are two questions you don't ask in Glasgow or Belfast pubs if you want to win friends and influence people.

I would agree that the areas the cab tour took us to did seem less diverse.

If you mean the nationalist areas, that's pretty much the polar opposite of conventional wisdom. I'm sure you saw the murals in support of a free Palestine alongside those celebrating the "martyrs" to the cause. In the riots which swept England last summer that also manifested in Belfast, it wasn't the nationalist community out burning cars to make their voices heard against immigration or "Islamification". Heck, even back in my school days that I referenced earlier, the children of the then small Muslim community in my home town were educated alongside me at the Catholic school because that was where they found acceptance.

Anyway, in a vain attempt to bring the thread at least slightly back on topic after my self indulgent waffling, from what I can gather,

https://belfasttours.com/ (the one BB received poor service from) is your go to if you lean more to the loyalist side and

https://belfastblackcabtours.co.uk/ is the one if you prefer a more nationalist outlook. The clue is Paddy Campbell's first name in this instance. [edit: and the pictures on his website, same as the other one] Obviously the product of a mixed marriage :)

I have to commend David from Cleveland's input into this thread too, even though I didn't quote him. David, I'm sure you'll agree Emo Philips redefined American comedy in the 80's, alongside Steven Wright and Bill Hicks et al. Up there with the greats.

"I'm not Catholic, but I gave up picking my belly button for lint." - Emo P

Get it? gave up for lint? Like lent? Oh never mind....

So there are two sides of this Northern Ireland thing as far as I can tell. There is the Irish side which goes like this: we're steamed cause you brits came over here and stole our land and gave to the Scots and other planters. And then there is the brits side which goes like this: we stole it fair and square so get over it or we'll keep marching in your neighborhoods.

I'm not Irish or Catholic but that's what I gleaned and I am nothing if not a poor summarizer of history. (I'm thinking Rick Steves really ought to hire me as a guide!)

Anyhow, loved Belfast! Great city. My wife's ancestors predominantly came from there.

Happy travels. And watch Derry Girls! Great show.

I always liked the one about the visitor, when asked what his religion was, said he was an atheist.

And the return reply of "Are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?"

GerryM, I think you missed my point entirely. I didn’t want a unionist/loyalist driver because I agree with that point of view. Quite the opposite. To the extent I have any right to an opinion on the situation, it’s not that one.

Fair enough. I did miss that entirely. Thank you for setting me straight on that.