Attire at Hungarian State Opera House: quick report

What was the opera?

What was the opera?
Don Pascale (Italian). The only one available during our stay.

Nice timing for this. I was with a working stiff Hungarian couple a few nights ago. Both in their 70’s and they were lamenting that the Opera isn’t what it once was because of the tourists. In a theater that only has 1300 seats if 1000 “we only travel with a carry-on” tourists show up in jeans then one could look around the room and say, “hey, everyone wears jeans to the opera, so I can too”. Its called mob rule. I don’t know how representative this Hungarian couple is, but they aren’t amused by what they called cultural vandalism by tourists.

The question, that any educated individual knows the answer to, is identical to the medicine/passport/carryon size question. No one wants to know what they should do, they want to know what they can get away with.

I was hoping for some improvement when they changed the rules making it mandatory to purchase all the seats in a box. I was hoping it would make it to expensive for carryon-only tourists. The fact that most all the boxes (except matinees) are sold to season ticket holders I was also hoping would help. Oh, matinees, different subject.

Maybe things have degraded further. My last opera performance was a Friday evening in April of 2022. I remember because my date for the evening was a Ukrainian in Budapest because of the russian invasion. As luck would have it this same question came up on the forum about the same time so I paid a little extra attention. In the seats and boxes that I could see from my box all but a very small handful of men were either wearing a tie or a sports coat or a suit. (I am a smart man; I do not comment on women’s clothing). But like I said that was over 3 years ago and tourism was still down because of COVID so I assume that except for the small handful, they were locals.

To be fair, since my first visit to the Hungarian State Opera in 2003 I had noticed deterioration in the quality of the experience as a cultural event. But I have still been saying that for technical quality you might be happier in Vienna, but for a cultural experience the Hungarian State Opera was still a local venue and culturally relevant. Apparently no longer true. Skip the performance, but take the tour. At least with the tour you can still imagine the venue when it inspired respect and when those attending respected each other as well.

https://www.dreamstime.com/editorial-image-budapest-opera-house-interior-hungarian-state-people-waiting-just-performance-hungary-image52570115

https://live.staticflickr.com/55/118061702_293bc7a39e_b.jpg
https://previews.123rf.com/images/quasargal/quasargal1206/quasargal120600553/14148484-hungarian-state-opera-house-in-budapest-hungary.jpg

Maybe things have degraded further.

Oh my, sorry to hear that the tourists are degrading the Opera experience in your town.

I loved the ballet that I attended at the Hungarian Opera House. I wore the best that fit in my carry on suitcase, an outfit that I wouldn't have otherwise brought with me.

I can't recall what I wore. I'd like to think it was respectable.

I can't recall what anyone else wore.

I loved everything about that performance. I particularly remember the athleticism and technical skill of the dancers. I remember how impressed I was.

I still check the schedules from time to time to see if there's another performance in Budapest that I'd like to attend.

I'll still wear something that fits in my carry on.

Just in case they lose my suitcase, because I wouldn't want to show up in my airplane outfit. And I wouldn't want to miss the outstanding performance.

This got me thinking, what would I do if the airline did lose my luggage and my ballet outfit was in it. I guess I'd miss whatever sightseeing I had planned to go buy something respectable to wear to the ballet. I hope I could find something on short notice. I don't usually book theater or ballet tickets the day after my international flight. Just in case my flight is delayed or I miss my connection.

And better to wait until I've adjusted to the time zone so that I don't fall asleep.

So I would have a couple of days to find something. Or maybe I'd have my luggage by then.

I don't have to think about any of this when I attend the ballet at home. At home, I can even bring un-sensible shoes on the train and change after the half mile walk to the Opera House. I can't fit those shoes in my carry on!

I have enjoyed my ballet experiences in Budapest. And London. And Dresden. And Vienna. Oh, and I'll be going back to Vienna in December. I even changed my flight after the ballet schedules came out, extending my trip by 1 night so that I could attend a performance.

I don't have to change flights to attend the ballet at home!

I will be paying close attention to the technical skill of the dancers in Vienna. Will they be better than those in Budapest? It's a high bar. I'm not sure.

@CWsocial, I love to attend classical concerts, ballet & opera when I’m in Europe, too! I will be attending the Stresa Music Festival, and my daughter & I have opera tickets for Milan’s La Scala during the same trip. I do think we have it much easier than the guys because it’s pretty easy to pack a decent dress for these events in a carry on that will also work well for dinners during the rest of the trip. ”And better to wait until I've adjusted to the time zone so that I don't fall asleep.”. The last time I attended the Stresa Music Festival, I attended a performance on arrival day. I absolutely loved it; I think adrenaline was keeping me awake! I did shut my eyes once to concentrate even more on the lovely music but quickly realized I needed my eyes open, or I might be lulled into sleep!

My husband & I attended a wonderful ballet at Vienna’s Wiener Staatsoper - probably ten years ago. He wore either a dress shirt or a formal sweater, so he could still do a carry on.

GeoffB, I will be on a RS tour next year to Prague & Budapest. I’m hoping to attend something special like the opera or ballet at one of these cities.

This got me thinking, what would I do if the airline did lose my luggage and my ballet outfit was in it.

I'm not sure that I would buy a dressier outfit if I couldn't wear what I had. For one thing, I don't wear dresses and there is no dress code in the world that can force me into one. That said, I could always dress something up with a scarf or jewelry, although I don't particularly like wearing those, either. What's a casual gal to do? Maybe I should throw a boa over my shoulders and then casually remove it once seated. ;-)

For what it's worth, I will be attending Turandot at the Hungarian Opera in early October, and promise not to disgrace myself. :-)

I was somewhat disappointed by the very faded blue jeans I saw men wearing at the Hungarian State Opera House, in this case a group of five 50-60 year old Italian men. This is 2 years ago but I think even in summer a third or more of the men were wearing sport coats or suits and ties.

It isn't hard or bulky to pack a sport coat in a carry on bag, see the folding technique here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQFwepmvL7A
The dress shoes are more bulky, if a person considers loafers dress shoes that is. Now having packed a sport coat once I will probably always bring one to Europe in the future, in a carry-on sized bag.

Jean, not a lot of trouble for men either. It really comes down to wanting to. I dont travel as much as I use to, but back in the day every trip included at least one really nice event of some sort. Could be the Opera in Odesa or dance night at the Ritz in London. I always had my trusty wrinkle proof Orvis Travel Blazer. I wore it on the plane. It has perfect pockets for the carryon essentials, tickets, small guide book, power supply, phone, wallet, passport, etc. Shirt? In the summer a silk t-shirt in the winter a sweater. Be a bit creative and everything gets used more than once.

I remember the first Opera I went to in Eastern Europe. Budapest in 2004. The city was a lot poorer then and there were few tourists. The locals not having a lot of income would pull out that suit they bought in 1967, the women were wearing furs that had begun shedding from age. But it was the best they could afford and the theater was a special night so they did everything they could to show the night the respect it and the others there deserved.

A few years prior to COVID I went to the annual Gala. You sort of had to know someone to get tickets, and I did. If there was another English speaking couple there, I never saw or heard them. For that I had to check a bag for the tux and for the S.O.'s fur. Excellent evening. Got to meet Plácido Domingo. We had a box low and near the stage and my S.O. swears that he was looking right at her when he sang Bésame Mucho. Here we are: https://cdn.life.hu/2023/12/OTy8jKM6_rcQDDxM5yXpR3s2pwV6bvsUKOet910zK50/fill/1347/758/no/1/aHR0cHM6Ly9jbXNjZG4uYXBwLmNvbnRlbnQucHJpdmF0ZS9jb250ZW50L2Y4MmE2NDg4NDFjOTQ4OTg4MThmNWM3MjkwZTM5NmQ4.jpg

I was hoping it would make it to expensive for carryon-only tourists.

Ahh, c'mom Mr E, the arts should be accessible to everyone, not just the "upper echelon" of society. :-)

Agree, Mary.

Anyway, when I go to any live arts performance, I am there to enjoy the performance, not to see and be seen. We're all sitting in the dark for most of the time, anyhow.

That said, I always have something a bit dressy in my carryon, usually a pretty caftan that's cool and comfortable. (I've received many compliments on it.)

Being a carryon only traveller has allowed me to make my connection when my first flight was delayed on at least two occasions, including my trip to Budapest. Being a carryon only traveller has nothing to do with what I can and will pay for, since cost is not the reason why I travel carryon only. In fact, my last two trips, I travelled Premium Economy and had free checked luggage included, but I still travelled carryon only. So, I fail to understand why we are being blamed/targeted in this discussion.

The trend in society has long been towards more casual dress, and I think that's a good thing. The older I get, the more I care about comfort, and the less I care about other people's expectations and judgements.

I spent many years teaching adult upgrading classes, and my students were almost always very poor. Our program gave them the opportunity to attend theatre, opera, ballet, etc. Should they have been denied these opportunities because they couldn't afford suits and fancy dresses?

Thanks GeoffB!

Times have changed! I shall inform my footman to adjust what to pack for our next trip to Budapest! (I played golf the other day and was told cargo shorts, untucked in shirts and caps on backward were an affront to both nature and golf etiquette. There are still country clubs holding the line from these happy gilmour wannabe types! Perhaps they can teach these opera ushers a thing or two.)

I am reminded of a quote from the Dowager Countess in Downton Abbey:

“First electricity, now telephones. Sometimes I feel as if I were living in an H.G. Wells novel.”

Also, though only relevant in regard to having the non-elite attend such things, there is this:

Isobel: “Servants are human beings too.”
Violet: “Yes. But preferably only on their days off.”

Still, it is nice to dress up for things!

Happy travels!

Isobel: “Servants are human beings too.”

Violet: “Yes. But preferably only on their days off.”

https://s1.r29static.com/bin/entry/c57/x/1514797/image.gif

I'm not a fan of dressing up, especially on vacation( I'm a fan of Business Casual) , but I do think jeans or shorts at these events are too casual.

Some say "clothing optional" is going too far. But I suppose that's up to opera fans.

The important thing to me is to be on team "carry-on luggage" now that my footman has decided he expects to be paid a living wage.

To be serious for a minute, I am supportive of whatever policy the Hungarian State Opera House in Budapest adopts. If they want black tie, so be it. If they are okay with t-shirts, fine by me. My only suggestion would be they switch from this opera music and instead get some 80s music or at least an Elton John song. Rocketman, now that's a good tune for an opera house, right? (Somewhere in the paragraph I must have lost the idea about being serious. My apologies.)

Happy travels!

Maybe I should throw a boa over my shoulders and then casually remove it once seated. ;-)

LOL, Mardee, I also don't wear dresses and am all in on your boa idea!

In all seriousness, I don't want to be places (too fancy, rich, stuffy, serious, pretentious) where I don't fit in or can't feel like myself (a highly educated but firmly middle-class Midwestern woman from a working class background), but I agree that art and culture shouldn't be relegated to only those who do fit in those spaces. Sigh.

As a thought experiment, I think if I were going to the opera, I'd bring a pair of navy or black pants (think: J Crew Factory Jamie pant) and black blouse or lightweight sweater and a pair of ballet flats (no heels ever for me either) and call it a day. An acceptable mix of honoring tradition while remaining me.

Violet: “Yes. But preferably only on their days off.”

I can't imagine Violet would like it either if the "lowly servants" were dressing above their station to attend "her" events. Then how could she tell - at a glance - that they were lowly or uneducated.

Surely, they might be happier amongst their own class.

"I shall inform my footman to adjust what to pack for our next trip ..."

Surely that is the job of your valet. If you are grand enough to employ footmen, shouldn't they just be carrying the luggage, not packing it?

Nick,

Good catch.

Due to regulations and red tape and union rules, my footman does-- or rather I should say did-- jobs that were normally to be done by my valet. Also my valet had a 2nd job at the time as a backup singer for pop superstar Elton John whose many hits include Rocketman and would be an opera great if only some people weren't so snobbish and hung up on definitions of opera singers. Also, Elton John really knew how to dress for a concert if I do say so myself.

Thank you for allowing me to explain.

Happy travels.

"The trend in society has long been towards more casual dress, and I think that's a good thing. The older I get, the more I care about comfort, and the less I care about other people's expectations and judgements."

I read somewhere, something like, "The Sporting clothes of one generation become the Formal wear of the next".

They were referring to the English and the clothes worn to Hunt events but...

I don't understand why anyone cares what anyone else wears to the opera or ballet or any kind of classical music event or theatre event -- or anywhere. How does other people's attire affect your appreciation of what's going on on stage?

I've attended operas and classical music concerts in Amsterdam, Stockholm, Oslo, Prague, Berlin, Dresden, Warsaw, Rome, London, and probably many other European cities I can't recall at the moment. I've also attended such events in numerous cities around the US. And I am a classically-trained musician who has performed with the New York Philharmonic, Philadelphia Orchestra, Los Angeles Phiharmonic, Atlanta Symphony, Paris Orchestra, and Opera Illinois. And I've been the musical director for several professional and community theatre musicals, as well as acting on stage.

When I'm performing, I don't give a hoot what people in the audience are wearing. I only care that the seats are filled and that the audience aren't using their devices during the performance.

When I've attended events in Europe, I've rarely seen men in coat and tie. And I've generally observed myself as one of very few tourists. My choice of dress is almost always an open collar button-up shirt or polo shirt and long pants. (I don't ever travel with blue jeans because they are heavy and bulky and you can't wash them in the sink and expect them to dry overnight.) I've never felt underdressed.

I just finished watching the third season of The Gilded Age. Perhaps we should revert to tuxes and gowns at the opera. I can imagine people feeling bothered by the first men who wore a suit or the first women who wore a skirt and blouse at the Met.

A sumptuous setting like the Hungarian State Opera is a setting where the audience is a part of the evening, a part of the total event.

Also worth noting it costs very little to "dress up" these days, and it's not a strain on the baggage either.

A sumptuous setting like the Hungarian State Opera is a setting where the audience is a part of the evening, a part of the total event.

So true. And I love the variety of it, from those wearing their tux or suit and fancy dress, to those wearing whatever fits in their carry on. Even in my home town, like Lane, I'm happy to see the seats are filled. I'll start to worry when they are not.

It's fun to see that everyone comes. To enjoy, and perhaps judge - the performance, not the performance goers.

Because we don't know what it took for that person to be there for that evening. Maybe a short metro ride, or even just a short walk. Perhaps an international flight and a year of planning.

CWsocial, I agree. Allow people to wear whatever they prefer. It doesn't have to be all dress-up to be part of the experience, no matter how sumptuous the venue.

I remember attending the opera in New Orleans some years ago. It was early September. You can imagine how hot and humid it is in New Orleans in early September. There were women wearing fur coats. I can't tell you how enjoyable that made the experience for me.

The most interesting take away in this discussion for me is that no one showed any interest in knowing what the cultural norm was in Hungary. Its just assumed it's the same as Cleveland. I dont know the answer but Hungary isn't Ohio.

Good question Mr. E.

The Cleveland Orchestra!

Famed conductors such as Hungarian born George Szell -- and let's not forget Lorin Maazel. Wow! Christoph von Dohnányi is also of Hungarian descent!

When I go to Severance hall, I wear tails, a top hat and a huge Cleveland Guardians giant foam finger. We're number one!

Everybody that's anybody does the same.

Home of rock and roll too!

Happy travels

I don’t understand the wide support here for people dressing identically for the Hungarian Opera as they would for painting a bedroom or climbing into a fishing boat. I don’t feel the same warm glow of other people dressing to “be themselves, be comfortable” as others do I guess.

Note to future opera visitors: there will be a 20 minute intermission between each act, so a fair bit of promenading around in finery, no hiding in the dark.

"I don't understand why anyone cares what anyone else wears to the opera or ballet or any kind of classical music event or theatre event -- or anywhere."

Seems broken down into two groups.

Those who are there just for the music. And maybe look at the pretty building.

Those who are there for the whole "experience". Which used to be part dress up. And still is in places.

Perhaps the first group can just pretend the second group is there for a "Performance Art" piece that also includes Music. Where what the audience is wearing is part of the whole "experience". Gets around all the nasty "should(s)".

And the culture wars that define them.

Evidence of changing dress codes (from I Love Lucy, episode "Lucy and the Loving Cup")

Lucy: Well, if I can go like this, you certainly can go like that!

Ethel: In my blue jeans?

Lucy: Ethel, with a loving cup on my head, I hardly think anybody will be looking at your blue jeans!

Ethel: Lucy, I have never ridden on a subway in my blue jeans, and I'm not gonna start now.

Oh, brother,. So, those of us who choose to be comfortable and don't fuss about what others are wearing are going to the opera in the same clothes we wear for painting the house now, are we? [Eye roll.] Talk about hyperbole. The world is not that black and white. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.

And, of course there are intermissions. I spend it discussing the performance with my companions, not gawking around to judge what everyone else is wearing. Shrug. Perhaps that's the introvert in me. Some may spend their time differently, and if they choose to get sniffy about what other people are wearing, that's on them, IMO.

[Theatre and symphony season ticket holder for 37 years.]

I do agree with Lane about cell phones. THAT'S something that actually impacts other theatre goers in a negative way, whether it be the lights or the sounds. One time, I witnessed a performer handle this brilliantly. The performer was Ronnie Burkett, the amazing puppeteer whose performances are both wickedly funny and heartbreakingly poignant. Anyway, someone's cell phone rang during one of his performances. Without missing a beat, a few minutes later, he had one of his characters say, "Cell phones are stupid." It fit perfectly into the performance, in which two characters waiting for a bus were noticing people's Hallowe'en costumes, and one observed that someone was dressed as a cell phone. Anyway, the audience ate it up.

[Edited to correct a mistaken reference to another poster.]

"Oh, brother, RobertH. So, those of us who choose to be comfortable and don't fuss about what others are wearing are going to the opera in the same clothes we wear for painting the house now, are we?"

Did you miss the quote I was responding to?

I don't care. Other people do. Enough for me.

Sorry, RobertH. It wasn't you who said that. My apologies.

All of these responses back & forth of what’s acceptable to wear, and I started laughing because of the last opera I attended. Last year I went to Tristen & Isolde in Palermo, and for a large portion of the opera, a naked male angel (just wore a set of wings) was slowly walking up & down the stage. One of the men in my box seat section took several photos of him. LOL!

Unless I'm missing something there seems to be no dress code on the State Opera website.
So any implied dress code is just pure snobbiness in my opinion.

Possibly by people who haven't adjusted to the fact that we haven't had an Austro- Hungarian Empire now for over 100 years, and the world of Downton Abbey also vanished for the better and for ever in the inter-war years.

Some of the comments on here could come straight out of the world of cruising where a lot of people seem to want to be judgemental about others.

They exemplify to a T why it wouldn't even cross my mind to go to the opera or ballet anywhere in the world, because of that implied elitism.

I have been to the Opera twice in my life- on an Intourist tour at St Petersburg (so that tells you how long ago it is) and in Hong Kong. The latter was more because the arts are or were so cheap over there it's worth trying anything. I enjoyed it both times. In HK there was no dress code, and I don't remember one in St Petersburg. If there was I certainly wasn't made to feel uncomfortable in my normal tourist clothes.

Since the OP pointed out that those in the boxes were tourists, It might be fair to assume that the majority of those present that night were also tourists? So, the observations on the way people were dressed might really be observations on how tourists dress for the Opera in Budapest. And that might be believable because Opera in the Summer is something new here. Only since the completion of the renovations. Just not a cultural norm. And yes, the past few days have been hot and most in Budapest don’t have AC. Unless the world has changed drastically in 3 years, I would suspect those in the polo shirts were most likely tourists, those in dress shirts and better were more likely to be Hungarians. But that’s just my uneducated guess. To be fair to the OP, if by accident or if by intent, did error (if it was an error) on the side of caution; and that I find commendable.

I am more perplexed by the context of responses here, than I am by the conclusions. I don’t think there is one comment above about local cultural norms or consideration for others. I find the lack of consideration for the citizens and culture of a host country to be somewhat surprising coming from a site full of self-professed experienced “Travelers”.

There seem to be three travel related themes echoed by a lot of the responses. The first theme appears to be “what I want” without regard for local cultural norms. The second theme appears to be, “this is how I have observed changes in Cleveland or San Francisco or Hackensack … so it is appropriate assume the world over is culturally all the same.” The third theme is that if there is no law, then I have no personal responsibility.

In situations like this, one might want to do a simple google search “Hungarian Cultural Norms” and read five or six of the hits. Then make a best guess and kick it up a notch as a way showing respect to the local citizens and local culture in the event the guess was too low.

Mr E,

What would you recommend? You live there. You know it better than me. I am sure everyone wants to be respectful.

My only serious point was I'll gladly accept whatever dress code the Hungarian State Opera House requires and I'm not going to second judge them. I'll assume they know what they're doing. On second thought, I really like them to consider Elton John music as opera. Right? I'd dress up for Rocketman!

Happy travels!

My only serious point was I'll gladly accept whatever dress code the
Hungarian State Opera House requires and I'm ...

Which means you and I approach life differently enough for me to say; David, go forth and feel good.

As I write this i am in a Scottish bar watching Aston Villa play Newcastle. They began the match with a moment of silence for a Liverpool player who died the other day. What was remarkable is that there is no league requirement that they do that.

Scottish bar! Good for you! I am sure they appreciate you being respectful too!

Have a nice day!

I don’t think there is one comment above about local cultural norms or consideration for others. I find the lack of consideration for the citizens and culture of a host country to be somewhat surprising coming from a site full of self-professed experienced “Travelers”.

Mr. E, I haven't seen any evidence to support your theory that travelers to Budapest have a "lack of consideration" for their citizens and culture. If there were a number of Hungarians posting here that they find it offensive when women don't wear fancy dresses and men don't wear suits and ties to the opera, I might consider it. But I don't feel a need to dress up to suit you.

I don't like to dress up and avoid it as much as possible. I do wear something akin to "nice business casual" but even if I did like fancy dress, I doubt that I would make room in my small carry-on for a dress I would wear for one night out of 30. I enjoy opera, but I enjoy it much more when I'm comfortably dressed. It's not like I'm wearing jeans or sweats. My thoughts are that the local people, and especially the Opera house, would much rather a tourist buy a ticket and attend the opera, even if they aren't dressed to the Nth degree, than bypass a performance because they would have to dress up. If it bothered them that much, there would be a dress code.