Attire at Hungarian State Opera House: quick report

What was the opera?

What was the opera?
Don Pascale (Italian). The only one available during our stay.

Nice timing for this. I was with a working stiff Hungarian couple a few nights ago. Both in their 70’s and they were lamenting that the Opera isn’t what it once was because of the tourists. In a theater that only has 1300 seats if 1000 “we only travel with a carry-on” tourists show up in jeans then one could look around the room and say, “hey, everyone wears jeans to the opera, so I can too”. Its called mob rule. I don’t know how representative this Hungarian couple is, but they aren’t amused by what they called cultural vandalism by tourists.

The question, that any educated individual knows the answer to, is identical to the medicine/passport/carryon size question. No one wants to know what they should do, they want to know what they can get away with.

I was hoping for some improvement when they changed the rules making it mandatory to purchase all the seats in a box. I was hoping it would make it to expensive for carryon-only tourists. The fact that most all the boxes (except matinees) are sold to season ticket holders I was also hoping would help. Oh, matinees, different subject.

Maybe things have degraded further. My last opera performance was a Friday evening in April of 2022. I remember because my date for the evening was a Ukrainian in Budapest because of the russian invasion. As luck would have it this same question came up on the forum about the same time so I paid a little extra attention. In the seats and boxes that I could see from my box all but a very small handful of men were either wearing a tie or a sports coat or a suit. (I am a smart man; I do not comment on women’s clothing). But like I said that was over 3 years ago and tourism was still down because of COVID so I assume that except for the small handful, they were locals.

To be fair, since my first visit to the Hungarian State Opera in 2003 I had noticed deterioration in the quality of the experience as a cultural event. But I have still been saying that for technical quality you might be happier in Vienna, but for a cultural experience the Hungarian State Opera was still a local venue and culturally relevant. Apparently no longer true. Skip the performance, but take the tour. At least with the tour you can still imagine the venue when it inspired respect and when those attending respected each other as well.

https://www.dreamstime.com/editorial-image-budapest-opera-house-interior-hungarian-state-people-waiting-just-performance-hungary-image52570115

https://live.staticflickr.com/55/118061702_293bc7a39e_b.jpg
https://previews.123rf.com/images/quasargal/quasargal1206/quasargal120600553/14148484-hungarian-state-opera-house-in-budapest-hungary.jpg

Maybe things have degraded further.

Oh my, sorry to hear that the tourists are degrading the Opera experience in your town.

I loved the ballet that I attended at the Hungarian Opera House. I wore the best that fit in my carry on suitcase, an outfit that I wouldn't have otherwise brought with me.

I can't recall what I wore. I'd like to think it was respectable.

I can't recall what anyone else wore.

I loved everything about that performance. I particularly remember the athleticism and technical skill of the dancers. I remember how impressed I was.

I still check the schedules from time to time to see if there's another performance in Budapest that I'd like to attend.

I'll still wear something that fits in my carry on.

Just in case they lose my suitcase, because I wouldn't want to show up in my airplane outfit. And I wouldn't want to miss the outstanding performance.

This got me thinking, what would I do if the airline did lose my luggage and my ballet outfit was in it. I guess I'd miss whatever sightseeing I had planned to go buy something respectable to wear to the ballet. I hope I could find something on short notice. I don't usually book theater or ballet tickets the day after my international flight. Just in case my flight is delayed or I miss my connection.

And better to wait until I've adjusted to the time zone so that I don't fall asleep.

So I would have a couple of days to find something. Or maybe I'd have my luggage by then.

I don't have to think about any of this when I attend the ballet at home. At home, I can even bring un-sensible shoes on the train and change after the half mile walk to the Opera House. I can't fit those shoes in my carry on!

I have enjoyed my ballet experiences in Budapest. And London. And Dresden. And Vienna. Oh, and I'll be going back to Vienna in December. I even changed my flight after the ballet schedules came out, extending my trip by 1 night so that I could attend a performance.

I don't have to change flights to attend the ballet at home!

I will be paying close attention to the technical skill of the dancers in Vienna. Will they be better than those in Budapest? It's a high bar. I'm not sure.

@CWsocial, I love to attend classical concerts, ballet & opera when I’m in Europe, too! I will be attending the Stresa Music Festival, and my daughter & I have opera tickets for Milan’s La Scala during the same trip. I do think we have it much easier than the guys because it’s pretty easy to pack a decent dress for these events in a carry on that will also work well for dinners during the rest of the trip. ”And better to wait until I've adjusted to the time zone so that I don't fall asleep.”. The last time I attended the Stresa Music Festival, I attended a performance on arrival day. I absolutely loved it; I think adrenaline was keeping me awake! I did shut my eyes once to concentrate even more on the lovely music but quickly realized I needed my eyes open, or I might be lulled into sleep!

My husband & I attended a wonderful ballet at Vienna’s Wiener Staatsoper - probably ten years ago. He wore either a dress shirt or a formal sweater, so he could still do a carry on.

GeoffB, I will be on a RS tour next year to Prague & Budapest. I’m hoping to attend something special like the opera or ballet at one of these cities.

This got me thinking, what would I do if the airline did lose my luggage and my ballet outfit was in it.

I'm not sure that I would buy a dressier outfit if I couldn't wear what I had. For one thing, I don't wear dresses and there is no dress code in the world that can force me into one. That said, I could always dress something up with a scarf or jewelry, although I don't particularly like wearing those, either. What's a casual gal to do? Maybe I should throw a boa over my shoulders and then casually remove it once seated. ;-)

For what it's worth, I will be attending Turandot at the Hungarian Opera in early October, and promise not to disgrace myself. :-)

I was somewhat disappointed by the very faded blue jeans I saw men wearing at the Hungarian State Opera House, in this case a group of five 50-60 year old Italian men. This is 2 years ago but I think even in summer a third or more of the men were wearing sport coats or suits and ties.

It isn't hard or bulky to pack a sport coat in a carry on bag, see the folding technique here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQFwepmvL7A
The dress shoes are more bulky, if a person considers loafers dress shoes that is. Now having packed a sport coat once I will probably always bring one to Europe in the future, in a carry-on sized bag.

Jean, not a lot of trouble for men either. It really comes down to wanting to. I dont travel as much as I use to, but back in the day every trip included at least one really nice event of some sort. Could be the Opera in Odesa or dance night at the Ritz in London. I always had my trusty wrinkle proof Orvis Travel Blazer. I wore it on the plane. It has perfect pockets for the carryon essentials, tickets, small guide book, power supply, phone, wallet, passport, etc. Shirt? In the summer a silk t-shirt in the winter a sweater. Be a bit creative and everything gets used more than once.

I remember the first Opera I went to in Eastern Europe. Budapest in 2004. The city was a lot poorer then and there were few tourists. The locals not having a lot of income would pull out that suit they bought in 1967, the women were wearing furs that had begun shedding from age. But it was the best they could afford and the theater was a special night so they did everything they could to show the night the respect it and the others there deserved.

A few years prior to COVID I went to the annual Gala. You sort of had to know someone to get tickets, and I did. If there was another English speaking couple there, I never saw or heard them. For that I had to check a bag for the tux and for the S.O.'s fur. Excellent evening. Got to meet Plácido Domingo. We had a box low and near the stage and my S.O. swears that he was looking right at her when he sang Bésame Mucho. Here we are: https://cdn.life.hu/2023/12/OTy8jKM6_rcQDDxM5yXpR3s2pwV6bvsUKOet910zK50/fill/1347/758/no/1/aHR0cHM6Ly9jbXNjZG4uYXBwLmNvbnRlbnQucHJpdmF0ZS9jb250ZW50L2Y4MmE2NDg4NDFjOTQ4OTg4MThmNWM3MjkwZTM5NmQ4.jpg

I was hoping it would make it to expensive for carryon-only tourists.

Ahh, c'mom Mr E, the arts should be accessible to everyone, not just the "upper echelon" of society. :-)

Agree, Mary.

Anyway, when I go to any live arts performance, I am there to enjoy the performance, not to see and be seen. We're all sitting in the dark for most of the time, anyhow.

That said, I always have something a bit dressy in my carryon, usually a pretty caftan that's cool and comfortable. (I've received many compliments on it.)

Being a carryon only traveller has allowed me to make my connection when my first flight was delayed on at least two occasions, including my trip to Budapest. Being a carryon only traveller has nothing to do with what I can and will pay for, since cost is not the reason why I travel carryon only. In fact, my last two trips, I travelled Premium Economy and had free checked luggage included, but I still travelled carryon only. So, I fail to understand why we are being blamed/targeted in this discussion.

The trend in society has long been towards more casual dress, and I think that's a good thing. The older I get, the more I care about comfort, and the less I care about other people's expectations and judgements.

I spent many years teaching adult upgrading classes, and my students were almost always very poor. Our program gave them the opportunity to attend theatre, opera, ballet, etc. Should they have been denied these opportunities because they couldn't afford suits and fancy dresses?

Thanks GeoffB!

Times have changed! I shall inform my footman to adjust what to pack for our next trip to Budapest! (I played golf the other day and was told cargo shorts, untucked in shirts and caps on backward were an affront to both nature and golf etiquette. There are still country clubs holding the line from these happy gilmour wannabe types! Perhaps they can teach these opera ushers a thing or two.)

I am reminded of a quote from the Dowager Countess in Downton Abbey:

“First electricity, now telephones. Sometimes I feel as if I were living in an H.G. Wells novel.”

Also, though only relevant in regard to having the non-elite attend such things, there is this:

Isobel: “Servants are human beings too.”
Violet: “Yes. But preferably only on their days off.”

Still, it is nice to dress up for things!

Happy travels!

Isobel: “Servants are human beings too.”

Violet: “Yes. But preferably only on their days off.”

https://s1.r29static.com/bin/entry/c57/x/1514797/image.gif

I'm not a fan of dressing up, especially on vacation( I'm a fan of Business Casual) , but I do think jeans or shorts at these events are too casual.

Some say "clothing optional" is going too far. But I suppose that's up to opera fans.

The important thing to me is to be on team "carry-on luggage" now that my footman has decided he expects to be paid a living wage.

To be serious for a minute, I am supportive of whatever policy the Hungarian State Opera House in Budapest adopts. If they want black tie, so be it. If they are okay with t-shirts, fine by me. My only suggestion would be they switch from this opera music and instead get some 80s music or at least an Elton John song. Rocketman, now that's a good tune for an opera house, right? (Somewhere in the paragraph I must have lost the idea about being serious. My apologies.)

Happy travels!

Maybe I should throw a boa over my shoulders and then casually remove it once seated. ;-)

LOL, Mardee, I also don't wear dresses and am all in on your boa idea!

In all seriousness, I don't want to be places (too fancy, rich, stuffy, serious, pretentious) where I don't fit in or can't feel like myself (a highly educated but firmly middle-class Midwestern woman from a working class background), but I agree that art and culture shouldn't be relegated to only those who do fit in those spaces. Sigh.

As a thought experiment, I think if I were going to the opera, I'd bring a pair of navy or black pants (think: J Crew Factory Jamie pant) and black blouse or lightweight sweater and a pair of ballet flats (no heels ever for me either) and call it a day. An acceptable mix of honoring tradition while remaining me.

Violet: “Yes. But preferably only on their days off.”

I can't imagine Violet would like it either if the "lowly servants" were dressing above their station to attend "her" events. Then how could she tell - at a glance - that they were lowly or uneducated.

Surely, they might be happier amongst their own class.

Nick,

Good catch.

Due to regulations and red tape and union rules, my footman does-- or rather I should say did-- jobs that were normally to be done by my valet. Also my valet had a 2nd job at the time as a backup singer for pop superstar Elton John whose many hits include Rocketman and would be an opera great if only some people weren't so snobbish and hung up on definitions of opera singers. Also, Elton John really knew how to dress for a concert if I do say so myself.

Thank you for allowing me to explain.

Happy travels.

"The trend in society has long been towards more casual dress, and I think that's a good thing. The older I get, the more I care about comfort, and the less I care about other people's expectations and judgements."

I read somewhere, something like, "The Sporting clothes of one generation become the Formal wear of the next".

They were referring to the English and the clothes worn to Hunt events but...

I don't understand why anyone cares what anyone else wears to the opera or ballet or any kind of classical music event or theatre event -- or anywhere. How does other people's attire affect your appreciation of what's going on on stage?

I've attended operas and classical music concerts in Amsterdam, Stockholm, Oslo, Prague, Berlin, Dresden, Warsaw, Rome, London, and probably many other European cities I can't recall at the moment. I've also attended such events in numerous cities around the US. And I am a classically-trained musician who has performed with the New York Philharmonic, Philadelphia Orchestra, Los Angeles Phiharmonic, Atlanta Symphony, Paris Orchestra, and Opera Illinois. And I've been the musical director for several professional and community theatre musicals, as well as acting on stage.

When I'm performing, I don't give a hoot what people in the audience are wearing. I only care that the seats are filled and that the audience aren't using their devices during the performance.

When I've attended events in Europe, I've rarely seen men in coat and tie. And I've generally observed myself as one of very few tourists. My choice of dress is almost always an open collar button-up shirt or polo shirt and long pants. (I don't ever travel with blue jeans because they are heavy and bulky and you can't wash them in the sink and expect them to dry overnight.) I've never felt underdressed.

I just finished watching the third season of The Gilded Age. Perhaps we should revert to tuxes and gowns at the opera. I can imagine people feeling bothered by the first men who wore a suit or the first women who wore a skirt and blouse at the Met.

A sumptuous setting like the Hungarian State Opera is a setting where the audience is a part of the evening, a part of the total event.

Also worth noting it costs very little to "dress up" these days, and it's not a strain on the baggage either.

A sumptuous setting like the Hungarian State Opera is a setting where the audience is a part of the evening, a part of the total event.

So true. And I love the variety of it, from those wearing their tux or suit and fancy dress, to those wearing whatever fits in their carry on. Even in my home town, like Lane, I'm happy to see the seats are filled. I'll start to worry when they are not.

It's fun to see that everyone comes. To enjoy, and perhaps judge - the performance, not the performance goers.

Because we don't know what it took for that person to be there for that evening. Maybe a short metro ride, or even just a short walk. Perhaps an international flight and a year of planning.

CWsocial, I agree. Allow people to wear whatever they prefer. It doesn't have to be all dress-up to be part of the experience, no matter how sumptuous the venue.

I remember attending the opera in New Orleans some years ago. It was early September. You can imagine how hot and humid it is in New Orleans in early September. There were women wearing fur coats. I can't tell you how enjoyable that made the experience for me.

The most interesting take away in this discussion for me is that no one showed any interest in knowing what the cultural norm was in Hungary. Its just assumed it's the same as Cleveland. I dont know the answer but Hungary isn't Ohio.

Good question Mr. E.

The Cleveland Orchestra!

Famed conductors such as Hungarian born George Szell -- and let's not forget Lorin Maazel. Wow! Christoph von Dohnányi is also of Hungarian descent!

When I go to Severance hall, I wear tails, a top hat and a huge Cleveland Guardians giant foam finger. We're number one!

Everybody that's anybody does the same.

Home of rock and roll too!

Happy travels

I don’t understand the wide support here for people dressing identically for the Hungarian Opera as they would for painting a bedroom or climbing into a fishing boat. I don’t feel the same warm glow of other people dressing to “be themselves, be comfortable” as others do I guess.

Note to future opera visitors: there will be a 20 minute intermission between each act, so a fair bit of promenading around in finery, no hiding in the dark.

"I don't understand why anyone cares what anyone else wears to the opera or ballet or any kind of classical music event or theatre event -- or anywhere."

Seems broken down into two groups.

Those who are there just for the music. And maybe look at the pretty building.

Those who are there for the whole "experience". Which used to be part dress up. And still is in places.

Perhaps the first group can just pretend the second group is there for a "Performance Art" piece that also includes Music. Where what the audience is wearing is part of the whole "experience". Gets around all the nasty "should(s)".

And the culture wars that define them.

Evidence of changing dress codes (from I Love Lucy, episode "Lucy and the Loving Cup")

Lucy: Well, if I can go like this, you certainly can go like that!

Ethel: In my blue jeans?

Lucy: Ethel, with a loving cup on my head, I hardly think anybody will be looking at your blue jeans!

Ethel: Lucy, I have never ridden on a subway in my blue jeans, and I'm not gonna start now.

Oh, brother,. So, those of us who choose to be comfortable and don't fuss about what others are wearing are going to the opera in the same clothes we wear for painting the house now, are we? [Eye roll.] Talk about hyperbole. The world is not that black and white. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.

And, of course there are intermissions. I spend it discussing the performance with my companions, not gawking around to judge what everyone else is wearing. Shrug. Perhaps that's the introvert in me. Some may spend their time differently, and if they choose to get sniffy about what other people are wearing, that's on them, IMO.

[Theatre and symphony season ticket holder for 37 years.]

I do agree with Lane about cell phones. THAT'S something that actually impacts other theatre goers in a negative way, whether it be the lights or the sounds. One time, I witnessed a performer handle this brilliantly. The performer was Ronnie Burkett, the amazing puppeteer whose performances are both wickedly funny and heartbreakingly poignant. Anyway, someone's cell phone rang during one of his performances. Without missing a beat, a few minutes later, he had one of his characters say, "Cell phones are stupid." It fit perfectly into the performance, in which two characters waiting for a bus were noticing people's Hallowe'en costumes, and one observed that someone was dressed as a cell phone. Anyway, the audience ate it up.

[Edited to correct a mistaken reference to another poster.]

"Oh, brother, RobertH. So, those of us who choose to be comfortable and don't fuss about what others are wearing are going to the opera in the same clothes we wear for painting the house now, are we?"

Did you miss the quote I was responding to?

I don't care. Other people do. Enough for me.

Sorry, RobertH. It wasn't you who said that. My apologies.

All of these responses back & forth of what’s acceptable to wear, and I started laughing because of the last opera I attended. Last year I went to Tristen & Isolde in Palermo, and for a large portion of the opera, a naked male angel (just wore a set of wings) was slowly walking up & down the stage. One of the men in my box seat section took several photos of him. LOL!

Unless I'm missing something there seems to be no dress code on the State Opera website.
So any implied dress code is just pure snobbiness in my opinion.

Possibly by people who haven't adjusted to the fact that we haven't had an Austro- Hungarian Empire now for over 100 years, and the world of Downton Abbey also vanished for the better and for ever in the inter-war years.

Some of the comments on here could come straight out of the world of cruising where a lot of people seem to want to be judgemental about others.

They exemplify to a T why it wouldn't even cross my mind to go to the opera or ballet anywhere in the world, because of that implied elitism.

I have been to the Opera twice in my life- on an Intourist tour at St Petersburg (so that tells you how long ago it is) and in Hong Kong. The latter was more because the arts are or were so cheap over there it's worth trying anything. I enjoyed it both times. In HK there was no dress code, and I don't remember one in St Petersburg. If there was I certainly wasn't made to feel uncomfortable in my normal tourist clothes.

Since the OP pointed out that those in the boxes were tourists, It might be fair to assume that the majority of those present that night were also tourists? So, the observations on the way people were dressed might really be observations on how tourists dress for the Opera in Budapest. And that might be believable because Opera in the Summer is something new here. Only since the completion of the renovations. Just not a cultural norm. And yes, the past few days have been hot and most in Budapest don’t have AC. Unless the world has changed drastically in 3 years, I would suspect those in the polo shirts were most likely tourists, those in dress shirts and better were more likely to be Hungarians. But that’s just my uneducated guess. To be fair to the OP, if by accident or if by intent, did error (if it was an error) on the side of caution; and that I find commendable.

I am more perplexed by the context of responses here, than I am by the conclusions. I don’t think there is one comment above about local cultural norms or consideration for others. I find the lack of consideration for the citizens and culture of a host country to be somewhat surprising coming from a site full of self-professed experienced “Travelers”.

There seem to be three travel related themes echoed by a lot of the responses. The first theme appears to be “what I want” without regard for local cultural norms. The second theme appears to be, “this is how I have observed changes in Cleveland or San Francisco or Hackensack … so it is appropriate assume the world over is culturally all the same.” The third theme is that if there is no law, then I have no personal responsibility.

In situations like this, one might want to do a simple google search “Hungarian Cultural Norms” and read five or six of the hits. Then make a best guess and kick it up a notch as a way showing respect to the local citizens and local culture in the event the guess was too low.

Mr E,

What would you recommend? You live there. You know it better than me. I am sure everyone wants to be respectful.

My only serious point was I'll gladly accept whatever dress code the Hungarian State Opera House requires and I'm not going to second judge them. I'll assume they know what they're doing. On second thought, I really like them to consider Elton John music as opera. Right? I'd dress up for Rocketman!

Happy travels!

My only serious point was I'll gladly accept whatever dress code the
Hungarian State Opera House requires and I'm ...

Which means you and I approach life differently enough for me to say; David, go forth and feel good.

As I write this i am in a Scottish bar watching Aston Villa play Newcastle. They began the match with a moment of silence for a Liverpool player who died the other day. What was remarkable is that there is no league requirement that they do that.

Scottish bar! Good for you! I am sure they appreciate you being respectful too!

Have a nice day!

I don’t think there is one comment above about local cultural norms or consideration for others. I find the lack of consideration for the citizens and culture of a host country to be somewhat surprising coming from a site full of self-professed experienced “Travelers”.

Mr. E, I haven't seen any evidence to support your theory that travelers to Budapest have a "lack of consideration" for their citizens and culture. If there were a number of Hungarians posting here that they find it offensive when women don't wear fancy dresses and men don't wear suits and ties to the opera, I might consider it. But I don't like to dress up and avoid it as much as possible.

I do wear something akin to "nice business casual" but even if I did like fancy dress, I doubt that I would make room in my small carry-on for a dress I would wear for one night out of 30. I enjoy opera, but I enjoy it much more when I'm comfortably dressed. It's not like I'm wearing jeans or sweats. My thoughts are that the local people, and especially the Opera house, would much rather a tourist buy a ticket and attend the opera, even if they aren't dressed to the Nth degree, than bypass a performance because they would have to dress up. If it bothered them that much, there would be a dress code.

44 years ago as a 20 year old, backpacking around Europe with my Eurrail pass with a friend, we ended up at one point in Munich and stayed with my brother’s friend who was a graduate student at the university there. He was an Opera buff and took us to a show at the Munich Opera House. I remember really really trying to be dressed as presentable as possible, but the wardrobe choices were limited as were funds. We did the best we could. I wore a denim skirt ballet flats and some sort of top. I absolutely felt completely underdressed…and was ….and we got some stares from some very well dressed patrons…but I’m so glad I went and got to experience the opera! I still remember it so many years later.

Just popping back in to say Geoff I hope you're loving Budapest and LOL at the imagined expression on your face when you come back and see this thread!

Mr Ë, why the need to continue to make assumptions and impugn the characters of those with different opinions than yours? I'm surprised. I've always seen you as a kind and helpful poster. Indeed, you helped to make my trip to Budapest a wonderful experience.

If, indeed, it is a cultural norm and expectation that one dress to the nines for the opera in Hungary, and in not doing so, I would seriously offend the locals, then I would either follow that norm or, much more likely, refrain from attending. I, and I dare say the vast majority of posters here, always try to be sensitive to local culture, at the very least, but are even more likely to embrace the differences.

Now, I did not attend the opera in Budapest, although I did tour the fabulous opera house. However, I have observed that there can be a wide variety in how people dress at all the arts performances I do attend, and most people don't seem to be focused on that. GeoffB's observances suggest that the opera in Budapest is similar, but I will bow to your vastly superior knowledge of Hungary and the opera there, and I will be sure to bring a suitcase full of finery if I ever decide to return and attend the opera.

I've been thinking a lot about this thread, because it really does intersect with so many important themes of culture, gender, and (socioeconomic) class. And while I give people the benefit of the doubt that, when they show up to the opera not dressed to the nines, that that's a reflection of a looong possible list of reasons (many of which have been noted here in this thread) and that they're not trying to disrespect the local culture, I can still understand that that might still be the unintended consequence.

And I can't help but think of a strange analogy. I'm a hockey fan, and there are some NHL teams that have, for certain games against specific rivals, limited their ticket sales to local residents as a way of preventing out-of-town fans from the opposing team buying up tickets and road tripping to the game. The home team is simply trying to maintain a vibe that they want: their home arena filled with their fans cheering for the home team.

There are a lot of people in the hockey world who roll their eyes at these efforts. As for me, here's what I can say: I've been that visiting fan multiple times and it's loads of fun to attend an away game. I've also been the fan at my home arena that's been invaded by the other team's fans and I've been utterly annoyed lol. Because, yes, it does change the vibe when there's loud cheering no matter which team has just scored.

And so while I can appreciate Mr. E's stance that people should basically do what's right, regardless of whether it's a rule/requirement, I also think that in many cases "what's right" is actually incredibly nuanced. And if, say, an NHL team or a city's opera house wants to take steps to nudge the experience in a certain direction through, say, restricting ticket sales or enacting a dress code, then I'm all for it. And if not, well, then it's going to be a messier gray space, like most of life.

Here's what it says on the Hungarian State Opera website (https://www.opera.hu/en/tickets/informations/faq/), in case anyone still cares:

Is there a dress code at the Opera House?

There is no official dress code at the Hungarian State Opera, but many of our guests take the opportunity to dress elegantly for their visit to the opera out of respect for the theatre and other audience members.

Just for fun, I checked some other famous opera houses:

What to Wear

Metropolitan Opera, New York (https://www.metopera.org/visit/what-to-expect/)

There is no dress code at the Met, but a night at the opera can be a great excuse to get dressed up. If you need inspiration, check out some of our favorite looks from Last Night at the Met, our curated fashion Instagram account.

Dress code at La Scala

https://www.teatroallascala.org/en/visit/information/information.html

The public is kindly requested to dress in keeping with the decorum of the Theatre, out of respect for the Theatre and for other viewers. People wearing shorts or sleeveless T-shirts will not be allowed inside the auditorium; in this case, tickets will not be reimbursed.

What should you wear?

Semperoper Dresden (https://www.semperoper.de/en/your-visit/your-first-time.html)

Please dress in a way that makes you feel comfortable. We are happy for you to dress up a bit, suitable for the elegant atmosphere of our opera house. For special occasions such as premieres, gala events and festive concerts, evening dresses and tuxedos are by no means out of place.

Please note, especially in the warmer months: sportswear is not suitable for visiting the opera, flip-flops pose a danger to yourself and others in an emergency, and admission may even be refused by the admission staff.

Is there a dress code?

Opéra National de Paris (https://www.operadeparis.fr/en/practical-informations/faq#faq-95)

There is no particular dress code, but proper attire is required. For gala evenings, it is suggested that gentlemen wear a dark suit and ladies a dress.

Dress Up

Royal Ballet & Opera, London (https://www.rbo.org.uk/visit/your-first-visit)

There is no dress code for the Royal Opera House, simply wear what you feel comfortable in.

Some people enjoy dressing up to visit the Royal Opera House. However, people also come straight from the office or from a day out in Covent Garden. Jeans or a suit, trainers or heels — the dress code is entirely up to you. We only ask that you are fully clothed, with your feet and torso covered, and that clothing does not display any offensive language or imagery.

You may wish to dress up for Gala performances or Opening Nights, but this is not compulsory. Any events with a dress code will be noted at the point of purchase and on your ticket but for regular performances you can wear what you like.

We're transitioning from a World where wearing White after Labor Day (in the US at least) would get you reviled to a not "anything goes" but "nobody knows".

With the remnants of the last World slowly disappearing.

Just popping back in to say Geoff I hope you're loving Budapest and LOL at the imagined expression on your face when you come back and see this thread!

Mary, thank you: Budapest was fine. The morning after my post my partner and I took a train to Eger, and then taxied out of Eger for an excellent paired wine dinner at Thummerer Winery's (recommended by a Hungarian cousin) Magtár Fogadó. The four course dinner was constructed from very old recipes found in old Hungarian cookbooks. The next morning we strolled around pleasant Eger before catching a train (via Budapest) to Vienna, where I have just had time to graze over some of the responses to my bland post about Hungarian Opera attire. It brings to mind the responses to another bland forum question about continental vs US usage of tableware; I characterized those responses as a mix of the useful, the disappointing, and the disturbing.

If anyone is interested, I observed the attire of men at the Thummerer dinner. My wife and I were the only foreigners; the rest were years- or decades-long customers of Thummerer Winery. (My wife and I were extremely lucky to be able to join.) The high temperature in Eger on that day was 98 degrees F. While I wore long pants and a button-up short sleeve shirt, all or most of the Hungarian men were wearing shorts and polo shirts.

Mr. E, I haven't seen any evidence to support your theory that
travelers to Budapest have a "lack of consideration" for their
citizens and culture.

Mardee, given not one post here mentioned the local culture, local norms, or any desire to try and understand them; well, yes, if I were to wake up and realize that I had behaved like that I would judge myself as having been inconsiderate. But to be fair to the RS team, this is one of those subjects where I suspect a fairly large number of people will choose to be quiet instead of being the subject of a lot of somewhat nasty sarcasm and accusations of elitism. In other words, I think most of the RS crowd will show up and demonstrate considerable respect … they just are avoiding this thread.

Mr Ë, why the need to continue to make assumptions and impugn the
characters of those with different opinions than yours?

BB, first, I appreciate the kind words in your post. I do try and help. I ask myself, what would I want if I had questions and then I try and do that much and a little more. I am not sure how I impugned the character of anyone. I spoke more to processes than results. Research the norms for instance. But I guess maybe I wasn’t careful enough and some could personalize it. For that I can apologize. And while one can fairly easily guess my standard, I never once said do the same or you are a …… But I do have the right to lament losing what was special for me. What’s the standard in Budapest? From my point of view (that of an extended tourist, not a local), that’s way too complicated and I will end up in more trouble if I try and articulate it. Oh, and I did mention that David and I have very little in common, but I didn’t say he was wrong. The man drives me nuts, but he is difficult not to like.

And so while I can appreciate Mr. E's stance that people should
basically do what's right, regardless of whether it's a
rule/requirement, I also think that in many cases "what's right" is
actually incredibly nuanced.

Hannah, while we might not be I full agreement on your conclusion (I gotta think about that one for a while), I certainly respect and appreciate you for the acuity and taking the time and making the effort to understand one of my points. That alone closes most of the gap between us. Thank you.

Tableware? GeoffB, you remind of a couple of quotes:

Since the American way of displaying etiquette does tend to favor
people with right-hand dominance, those who are left handed may prefer
the efficiency of the continental way. But ultimately, the bottom line
in etiquette is simply courtesy and mindfulness. When one is present
with their fellow diners, good etiquette comes easily. So, don't worry
if you don't follow American or continental rules exactly to the
letter. As sixteen-year-old George Washington wrote in "110 Rules of
Civility & Decent Behavior in Company and Conversation" (his manners
manifesto): "Labor to keep alive in your breast that little spark of
celestial fire called conscience."

Also, from memory so accept my apologies in advance if I make a minor mistake or two, let me quote the good book:

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are
those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be
satisfied. Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the well dressed, for they shall be the only ones that
fit-in at the Hungarian Opera.

Mr E intentions are great. He chastens us all to respect traditions. Some others have pointed out that traditions change and that Gilded Age opera dress code might not be all that it is cracked up to be. Finally, there are those like me who are just plain stinkers.

All in good fun!

Happy travels.

Thanks David. Brought a moment of cheer in my morning. Though the Webmaster's going to call if this keeps going.

Nick,

After George cut down that cherry tree, I knew he was a bad seed.

Happy travels.

I think if people just thought of it as Cosplay...

And really intense LARPers.

edit: for the confused: :-)

David is always 2% profound and 96% controlled substances from 1976.

I hope the Webmaster let's us play. We bicker but its all in good faith and without hard feelings.

"We bicker but its all in good faith and without hard feelings."

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

I still imagine he has to do more work (monitor closer,etc) such threads. But he does a good job of balancing.

I find the lack of consideration for the citizens and culture of a host country to be somewhat surprising coming from a site full of self-professed experienced “Travelers”.

For my part, I don't think it is any lack of consideration, but rather a difference in interpretation.

I have been to enough famous opera houses (including Budapest) to know what is typical, what the range is, and where I feel comfortable within that range. Not at the top end - a wardrobe I do not own. And not at the lower end - although my ballet clothes do fit into my carry-on suitcase, that does not mean that I wear jeans or t-shirt.

I went back and looked at my 2023 OneNote packing list for Budapest, which I marked "Specific to Budapest." My header for one clothing section says "Smart outfit for Ballet, evening dress, simple but elegant." And then lists my idea of the (carry-on) clothes to meet that - clothes and accessories for which I had no other need during that trip.

So while my intepretation of "dress elegantly" may not match someone else's, and may not even meet the mark of kicking it up a notch, I also would not characterize my dress-nicely-from-the-confines-of-a-carry-on-suitcase approach under the (admittedly broad) generalization of a lack of consideration.

CW, as I know you and I know you are remarkably intelligent I will take all the blame for not expressing myself well. The context of the quote has nothing to do with what to wear. The context was what is proper to consider when forming your opinion: the local culture. I never took a stance on what anyone other than myself should or should not wear.

Thanks to @Lane for bringing facts into this discussion.

First off, there is nothing "normal" about attending an opera at an inside venue in August in Europe - or anywhere else [except perhaps Australia] - performances are typically outside, usually under the stars. So it's difficult to argue that cultural norms apply to the Budapest opera in August. Were the principals of the orchestra performing, or second- or third-stringers? A guest conductor? Do these performances exist to primarily serve the tourist trade?

But even during the operatic "season" the policies that Lane cites should be the guides that one considers when selecting appropriate dress. Purveyors of serious music need to think about how to draw in younger generations, and enforcing strict dress codes isn't the way to do it.

What are cultural norms in Budapest? I was there in December and from the perspective of an American tourist, the "norm" is unfettered capitalism - at least in the central city. And I'm not faulting the local Hungarians - with a weak national economy, they need to make a living, and I'm sure the tourist trade is a path to financial security for many. Is "traditional" Hungarian culture now relegated to tourist-centric folk music performances at high-priced restaurants?

And even within Budapest, isn't the norm different when you move from Andrassy Ave to the Szimpla Kert ruin bar just a few blocks away? And I assume there is an even greater difference when you leave Budapest and move out into the heartland of Hungary.

People come to this forum for information, hopefully grounded in personal experience or gleaned from reputable sources online. What is less helpful are opinions based on suppositions, or the way things were twenty years ago.

If I lived a few blocks from the Budapest Opera, if there was an inquiry regarding how to dress to attend the opera in August, I might wander over, maybe on the way to a wine bar, and observe what people were wearing as they entered the facility. And then report back on that. That perspective would be factual, and thus helpful to the OP - as well as the many people that might be searching for the topic on the forum three or six months down the line.

@ Markcw

What’s your beef with Opera Australia?

Regards Ron

Other end of globe? Summer(August) => Winter there?

I am very appreciative of Geoff’s post and his efforts to dress appropriately.

I am bad at both conflict and nuanced discussion and thus almost really hate the back and forth on this topic. However, to be honest, I might have been at the Opera House for a performance over the past 3-4 years more than almost anyone else participating in this discussion, Mr. Ë included: 6 times in the last 3 years but always spring or fall, so my experience differs from Geoff’s. Every performance I have been to has been primarily Hungarian - you can tell by the unusual style of applause I haven’t encountered anywhere else. Here is a comment I made on another post regarding this topic:

I don’t own “fancy” but I love attending performances wherever I am and sometimes I don’t know ahead of time that I will (thinking about two nice concerts in the Baltics last year). I just take a dress (and tights depending on weather) as part of my packing process. If I don’t find something while there (which is rare), then I wear it to dinner somewhere.
I almost always find something at the opera house ahead of time (Carmina Burana last visit and Romeo and Juliet ballet this year) - tickets are hard to come by last minute. I have bought a box twice but otherwise sit on the floor level. Most older ladies I see now are in their “Sunday best”. Sometimes that is a pantsuit instead of a dress, but you can tell it’s their “nice” clothes. Younger women and girls are usually in a dress, also dressed up - but not usually gala type dresses (but sometimes I see that). I rarely see jeans but am not on the upper levels of standing room. Once, I wound up in Budapest unplanned and wanted something better than what I had for the Opus Jazz Club, so I went second hand shopping. That was actually fun.

I am not really worried about some exact dress code. To be honest, a dressy pair of pants, nice top with scarf or jewelry, etc. would not make women look out of place at the Budapest Opera House in my experience, even on the floor (and I suspect that higher levels of seating become more casual).

But most of this thread strikes me as really odd. As a whole, while we aren’t too stuck on whether or not we should wear ball caps or white tennis shoes when traveling, most regulars here on the forum are normally very concerned about observing cultural norms - whether they are our norms at home or not. We talk about not taking American tipping customs to places where that is not a cultural norm. Greet salespersons when you enter a store in France - even though we don’t at home. Cover shoulders and knees in churches out of respect, even if you aren’t religious and even if they let you in without. And so on.

I don’t want to make anyone feel bad (and am not trying to advocate any particular dress code) but I think perhaps it’s ok to know that generally I really should bring more than my jeans or my knock-off Eddie Bauer black pants (the knock-offs fit better) if I want to go somewhere nice. I will do the same in Riga and Stockholm in December - it’s not just Budapest. Why would I not want to know that? Why would I want to use the reasoning that “I don’t do it at home”? I am not trying to defend the honor of the opera house or Hungarian culture, but it’s also not made up that women dress up some when attending. (I promise to look at men in October.)

Why would I not want to know that?

Why would I want to use the reasoning that “I don’t do it at home”?

The difference that I see is in the execution (not just the knowing, but the doing) specifically for a carry on traveler. And more particularly for men.

It's easy to decide to greet a salesperson in a culturally appropriate way. If I know it's the norm, then I can simply choose (or remember) to do it.

I can add a tip (or not) with my credit card (which I'm already bringing) or some cash from my wallet.

It's easy to bring a scarf to Istanbul, and if I forget, they will loan me one. In Greece, they'll even give out a wrap around skirt, as some monasteries don't allow women in pants.

And as a lady, it might be easy (and lightweight) to add a nice blouse or a scarf and some jewelry. I've done it myself, even carry on. I might not be the best dressed, but I'm respectably in the middle.

But I often see the question, for men, phrased as... do I really have to bring a jacket? (The implication clearly being the space and weight of it. And perhaps they would have to buy one.) Relative to a scarf or a courteous phrase, or a 10% addition to a bill, that's a heavier lift for a traveler.

do I really have to bring a jacket?

One might ask if it was for a matinee, opening night, Friday/Saturday or other, Bánk bán or other, floor or box or balcony, summer maybe? But none of that matters as there is no law, rule or regulation that requires a man to wear a jacket; it’s a personal choice. I do wear one, and when I travel I wear mine on the plane. It’s been my travel vest substitute on at least a dozen international trips.

None of this is easy to guess.

A few months ago, I attended a local’s focused event. It began at 2pm so being a Saturday afternoon I wore my newest jeans and my newest polo shirt. When I arrived two thirds of the men there were either in suits, sports coats or otherwise looked like they were out of a GQ magazine. I did fit in with the other third more or less, but that didn’t make me feel any better. I know a little of the culture, so I should have known better.

The same group had another event about a month ago. This one was a bit more publicized with other than locals. I went in a sports coat. Out of hundreds there were maybe 20 of us in sports coats or suits. But the phrase Smart Casual would describe group in general and more "smart" than casual. My translator was thrilled to be with the best dressed individual because the translator looked important. It was our joke for the night.

To me the question of cultural sensitivity is quite a subtle one. I don't know the local standard of living, but my jaw visibly dropped when I saw the prices of the boxes and the more expensive normal seats (not the ones in The Gods).
I may have been looking at an abnormal performance, but I can't imagine those prices being affordable to the average person. Thus if the "man in the street" was going it would be for a very special occassion. So they are by definition going to be dressed well.
The way I look at it is that to most people on here going to the theatre in London is de rigueur and many go to several plays, it seems without really thinking about the cost which seems to be small change.
To me, as an average Brit that is unthinkable. It would have to be a truly important event for me to go to a London theatre, and because of that I would be dressed differently to most of the audience. I don't expect you to copy me.

The same applies to the Theatre by the Lake in Keswick (much cheaper than London), less than 30 miles from me. I would love to be a regular there but can't justify the price. That is not quite the same as can't afford. I am not criticising the cost, I know or have a good idea what it costs to put a show on. So even to go there it would be an Event with a big E to me.
You as a tourist are not going to know the background, and probably raw emotion in there to me.

There is no official dress code at the Hungarian State Opera, but many of our guests take the opportunity to dress elegantly for their visit to the opera out of respect for the theatre and other audience members.

It's clear from the directions that not dressing up at least somewhat is seen locally as an insult to the organization and the other audience members.

Really packing a sports jacket is not difficult, see my video above.

In the 1880s, both New York and Budapest opened their famed opera houses at the height of the Gilded Age. The doors flew open and everybody was welcome. Well, everybody with money and who could afford the tickets and the dress. The “working stiffs” referenced above who suffered “cultural vandalism” might be among the carriage drivers who drove the real patrons to the event and they might perchance have clothing acceptable due to their dress for work. Non-servant working stiffs of course would have neither the money nor the clothes.

Fortunately fates has democratized music including opera to the masses with the advent of technologies like the gramophone, the radio, TV and YouTube. Also, the middle class in New York and Budapest and Cleveland can afford maybe not the elegance of the Gilded age but certainly a nice dress or decent suit. And a taxi driver in Budapest can save up to maybe afford a ticket or two a year if he so chooses.

But the patrons of opera are still typically not the local working stiffs, the taxi drivers, the factory workers, the fry cooks, the waitresses and so on. They are more often than not folks who still like opera. I know when I go to severance hall in Cleveland, there is ocean of blue hair to be seen (my descriptions of fading gray). We don’t have the tourists filling the seats so we just use the old coupled with folks studying from the music settlement and the occasional person who discovers classical music. I expect in New York and Budapest they have tourists and music lovers from across the globe.

As a performer, I find Lane’s posts to be poignant and most relevant. The goal of getting the young to see these great works is preeminent. Getting butts in seats and making great music and keeping these places open for future generations is the highest calling.

Like GeoffB, I'd try to wear something nice if I packed it. If I didn't, I'd honor the sentiments of Lane-- get my butt in a seat and help keep the place around for another generation.

Happy travels.

It's fun to see that everyone comes. To enjoy, and perhaps judge - the performance, not the performance goers.

Exactly, CWSocial. I worked for 10 years as the costume coordinator for Cincinnati Opera, and all they wanted were people in the seats. I know the singers don't care; in fact, one tenor from Sweden once told me that he wished all the audience members would come in jeans and T-shirts, lol!

Most opera companies now are making a concerted effort to get younger people in the seats, and the last thing on their mind is telling people how to dress. Let's face it; most opera-goers are old (like us) and we're getting older and dying out. :-) Who will replace us in those seats? Hopefully the younger crowd. Some will dress up because there will always be those who enjoy that. But there will always be those who do not. Both should be entitled to enjoy their opera experience.

In the end, it's about the music.

ETA:

Like GeoffB, I'd try to wear something nice if I packed it. If I didn't, I'd honor the sentiments of Lane-- get my butt in a seat and help keep the place around for another generation.

David, I like your philosophy (and Lane's). :-)

But the patrons of opera are still typical, not the local working
stiffs, the taxi drivers, the factory workers, the fry cooks, the
waitresses, and so on.

Then, you have proven my point that an understanding of the local culture is where you should begin when considering the question. Because you could not be much more incorrect in your statement. Eastern European culture of the past 70 years has very little in common with Cleveland. Ask yourself why David. I think you are the sort that would celebrate the largest driving force that made the arts here much more universally accessible. But alas, tourism appears to be changing the nature of what was once very much enjoyed across the economic spectrum.

I worked for 10 years as the costume coordinator for Cincinnati Opera,
and all they wanted were people in the seats.

Mardee [edited], neither is this Cincinnati. Hungarians have a different cultural perspective on the arts than those who live in Cincinnati. There is apparently no problem filling the seats at the Opera house or apparently any of the approximately 50 other live theaters in town.

Some will dress up because there will always be those who enjoy that.
But there will always be those who do not. Both should be entitled to
enjoy their opera experience.

You should send a letter to the Prime Minister and tell him the people of Cleveland demand that he make changes.

Mr E,

I love that you are respecting and honoring the culture as you see it. The pageantry and glamour of opera captivates the imagination and I see why you want to preserve it.

Happy travels!

David, not at all what I have done. I told no one how to dress. I only suggested that it was more respectful to first consider the local culture, then look at your carry in bag. I didn't even define the norms of the culture. Who am I to do that. I suggested a little research and trying to error on the side that would have the least negative impact if they were a little wrong. I can't understand why people find that offensive.

But Toby found the suggestion from the Opera House that sort of ends the discussion for me .... me as a guest in someone else's house.

Mr E,
I don't know about others but I didn't find what you said offensive. I enjoy your writing. It's charged-- "cultural vandalism" -- that's good, powerful stuff. I also respect your sentiment. Protect traditions.

Now if I may quote Elton John:

Mars ain't the kind of place To raise your kids In fact, it's cold as
hell And there's no one there to raise them If you did

And all this science I don't understand It's just my job Five days a
week A rocket man Rocket Man

We want someone there not "no one there".

Happy travels! It's all good!

In the end, it's about the music.

I disagree to the extent that the location matters. In Budapest, opera is a shared experience, a community event. Some level of interaction is expected. It’s not only individuals experiencing music in the dark.

Also there’s no problem I can see selling out the Hungarian Opera. Actually I think opera sells out pretty much everywhere and has more youth appeal. It’s symphonies that I think have more of an issue selling tickets.

Incidentally I would only wear jeans (likely black) to my local opera and symphony to discourage the appearance of pretentiousness and perhaps increase youth appeal. But Budapest is a different situation, likely Prague also, because classical music is more respected and revered there, and concerts sell out.

CW, neither is this Cincinnati

Just to be clear, the comments about Cincinnati are from Mardee who worked as costume coordinator for their opera.

My cultural reference point is San Francisco, for whom jeans are explicitly listed in their What to Wear statement, for both the opera and ballet, which are the same venue, different organizations.

Is there a dress code? (SF Ballet)
https://www.sfballet.org/tickets/plan-your-visit/first-time-at-the-ballet/

Dancers are in costume, but you don’t have to be. You will see people
in gowns and others in jeans. Wear what you like and what makes you
comfortable.

A similar statement from the opera, whose negative preference is for perfumes:

What should I wear (SF Opera)
https://www.sfopera.com/visit/visiting-us-for-the-first-time/

We don't have a dress code. Some opera-goers prefer suits and gowns,
others jeans. Wear what makes you feel comfortable. However, please
avoid wearing strong scents. Many people (including singers) have
allergies.

I don't wear jeans to the ballet at home either. Though I'd wear those long before I'd affect the patrons around me by wearing perfume.

Earlier in this thread I wrote the following:

I don't understand why anyone cares what anyone else wears to the opera or ballet or any kind of classical music event or theatre event -- or anywhere. How does other people's attire affect your appreciation of what's going on on stage?

Thanks to the many thoughtful responses in this thread, I do now understand. Personally, I still don't care, but I do see how cultural norms, tradition, and the elegance of the venue factor into it.

I hope no one will be dissuaded from attending the opera because they are afraid they will be underdressed. Don't wear shorts and t-shirts and flip-flops. (I don't think anyone was arguing in favor of that.) But don't feel compelled to dress to the nines if the institution doesn't require it.

Feel free to enjoy being judgy about what other people are wearing. Both the overdressed and the underdressed. Yes, that's part of the fun. Perhaps a good goal is not to be one of the people others are making fun of.

CWsocial, I apologize. I was pecking off my cell phone and the lines got crossed in my brain. I fixed it.

My cultural reference point is San Francisco, for whom jeans are
explicitly listed in their What to Wear statement, for both the opera
and ballet, which are the same venue, different organizations.

Budapest shares very little to nothing historic or culturally with San Francisco, so while what they are doing is beautiful in the San Francisco culture it has nothing to do with this topic. As an illustration, the SF website says, "Dancers are in costume, but you don’t have to be. You will see people in gowns and others in jeans. Wear what you like and what makes you comfortable." is pretty much at odds with what the Hungarian website says "There is no official dress code at the Hungarian State Opera, but many of our guests take the opportunity to dress elegantly for their visit to the opera out of respect for the theatre and other audience members."

Then the comment that its about the music. I suggested about 40 posts ago that if we had reached that point and there was nothing culturally special about the Opera any longer ... why go. Take the tour of the building to see the no longer necessary architecture and buy the CD. Maybe we can tear it down and replace it with a grey box with 2000 cheap seats and a great sound system so that more can hear the CD with great acoustics ... cause its just about the music. When the day comes that this is true, it will be a great loss as an important part of Hungarian culture will only exist as photos in museums.

By the way, the Opera owns 2 other venues where the music does have a more significant solo part and then there is the Hungarian House of Music which also showcases the music in a more forward manner. But none of those are an Opera Cultural Event. They are primarily music events.

it has nothing to do with this topic

Goodness, apparently I thought it did, but perhaps I didn't make it clear why I thought so. I will now.

Because although my cultural reference point allows jeans, I don't wear them at the SF Ballet. Even if I were inclined to wear them in San Francisco, that doesn't mean I would wear them to any other opera house - and to your point - without checking their "what to wear" guidelines.

Sorry, now I'm the one not making myself clear.

And to put a finer point on the relevance, my thought process was in reaction to this way-up-thread commentary.

In a theater that only has 1300 seats if 1000 “we only travel with a
carry-on” tourists show up in jeans then one could look around the
room and say, “hey, everyone wears jeans to the opera, so I can too”.
Its called mob rule.

And to counter this point...

"The most interesting take away in this discussion for me is that no one showed any interest in knowing what the cultural norm was in Hungary. Its just assumed it's the same as..." (in my case, Cleveland)

... that apparently some of us, including in this discussion, do show interest in knowing what the cultural norm is in Hungary.

"Budapest shares very little to nothing historic or culturally with San Francisco,"

Exactly to my point and my (unclear in writing) thought process.

Otherwise, based on my home (explicit jean allowing) reference, I might have just concluded that jeans would be just fine. So apparently, carry-on tourist that I am, I figured that one out. And seemingly I resesarched it, based on my packing notes ("Smart outfit for Ballet, evening dress, simple but elegant.") from my last visit. Because I didn't write "anything goes" in my packing notes.

And I did pack something that I thought would be suitable for Hungary, not for my home reference point of San Francisco.

CWsocial, sorry. Im a schlub sometimes. Apologies.

Well, I didn't make my point very clear. In my mind, the connection was obvious. Among non-mind readers, I can see how it would be hard to understand any relevance.

I was able to make use of my suit again (though sans tie) during this trip when we attended an opera at the Salzburg Festival on Aug 29. Unlike the Aug 14 Budapest Opera performance -- where I stood out as rather overdressed among the males in the audience -- for the Salzburg Festival performance I would have stood out as underdressed without a suit. https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/austria/another-fun-free-article-about-salzburg

GeoffB,

Glad you found another great musical event and also that you had the attire to wear that made you and others comfortable. Well met!

As Henry David Thoreau once remarked "beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes." How that exactly applies in this context, well, beats me. I just like the quote. And I don't suppose he knew what to wear anyway....no matter. I suppose having a nice pair of duds in the ole carryon is forward thinking after all.

Happy travels!

I feel like a performance in Salzburg at the music festival will be in my future at some point, so it’s good to know about the general feel. I will be doing an audience survey in Budapest in October, because I’m curious if there’s a difference between Oct. and Aug.

I will also be at an opera in the Bucharest Opera House in a week or two during the Enescu Festival. I’ll undoubtedly be scoping out that audience as well. Lol.

There is a performance at the Opera tonight and I live a 3-minute walk from the front door, so I decided to walk over and count. The performance began at 18:00; a sold out performance of Le nozze di Figaro (The Marriage of Figaro).

Of the first 100 gentlemen that entered after I arrived, 71 had suits or sports coats (but not necessarily ties) and 3 more just ties. Thats all I could keep track of with actual numbers, but in round terms, maybe half of the remainder were in dress shirts and slacks; let’s say smart casual. But there were a few, mostly younger people in T-shirts and a couple in shorts.

As temperatures were mentioned in prior posts, we are pretty much at our high today at 81F and 22% relative humidity (in other words almost perfect). It’s Saturday and it’s a popular program so that might impact things (season ticket vs one-off ticket holders in attendance).

Now I sit at the Liszt Academy that has a 19:00 performance. I will start counting in about 30 minutes. https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/hungary/attire-for-evening-concert-at-franz-liszt-academy-and-lunch-at-a-michelin-star-restaurant#bottom

Let me suggest that Andrassy ut on a performance evening is a pretty sweet walk as a large percentage of those on the sidewalks are dressed for the theater (there are 4 between the Oktogon and the lower end of Andrassy) and it does change the atmosphere. Probably a good evening for some of the local restaurants too.

TexasTravelMom, didn't you say you were going to the Opera in Bucharest? What did you notice there?

TexasTravelMom isn't being much help.

There is a performance at the Opera tonight and I live a 3-minute walk from the front door, so I decided to walk over and count. The performance began at 18:00; a sold out performance of Le nozze di Figaro (The Marriage of Figaro).

Of the first 81 gentlemen that entered after I arrived, 58 had suits or sports coats (but not necessarily ties) or just ties (70%). Thats all I could keep track of with actual numbers, but in round terms, maybe half of the remainder were in dress shirts and slacks; let’s say smart casual. But there were a few, mostly younger people in T-shirts and a couple in shorts.

Its impossible to know for sure without asking, and you cant do that, but if the ones that came in and appeared to know exactly where to go were the locals and the confused ones waving tickets were tourists, then I would say the percentage of locals in suits, sports coats, ties was significantly higher than tourists.

I am being no help, because you asked about my experience at the opera in Bucharest (kinda irrelevant). I’ll report in after I am at the opera in Budapest in Oct.

This has been an interesting discussion.

For what it's worth, last night I attended a wonderful concert at the Black Church in Brasov, Romania where the Brasov Philharmonic Orchestra played Bruckner's Symphony No. 8 as part of the Enescu Festival. The church was filled with people, both young and old, and all dressed in a wide variety of styles, from casual to very dressy. A young woman in front of me wore a sparkly silver dress, but up across the aisle, I saw a man in a very casual khaki shirt with jeans.

I quit looking after the first few minutes, though, because this concert was all about the music. No matter what anyone was wearing, it was obvious that everyone was enraptured by the orchestra's brilliant performance. And that is how it should be. I hope I don't ever find myself worrying so much about what to wear that I forgo a performance like the one above.

I hope I don't ever find myself worrying so much about what to wear that I forgo a performance like the one above.

In some ways that is the absolute bottom line on this discussion. It is pretty clear now that the Budapest Opera (as an institution) does not have a defined, or at least an enforced dress code.
And I'm pretty sure the [bricks and mortar] building doesn't care what I wear, one of the excuses offered.
It seems to be unclear whether some of the patrons wish there was one, and maybe lament the old times when there might have been one (actual or de facto) and whether or not the changes may have been down to tourism.

But the real shame is that this apparent wish for elitism could be (and is) off putting to some people, because this is probably not confined to Budapest or Bucharest. Apart from price it is one key reason why I personally would not entertain the idea of going to the Opera or the Ballet anywhere- be it Budapest, London, New York or Timbuktu.
It does a dis-service to the performing arts.
And yes I am one of those people. I don't and have never owned a really posh suit, dress shirt and bow tie (ie- black tie outfit), just work suits, and I no longer need those. I am not going to buy them specifically to go to the opera/ballet/theatre, irrespective of the slightly different aspect of packing them.

David, that is the important point. It's really not about opera houses or Budapest, and it is certainly not about anything that begins with "I" or the size of your luggage or life in San Francisco. It's about a philosophy. I just always figured as a tourist I was a guest in the home of a kind stranger and i want to be as respectful and polite as possible, and to do that, i often error on the side of caution. Maybe if more did the same, there would be fewer Tourist Go Home protests? Maybe not.

If locals want me to go home because they think I’m disrespectful for not packing an evening gown (and the accompanying hose, shoes, underwear, handbag, and wrap that I would also need to pack), then I guess I should go (or stay) home. Doesn’t sound like a place I’d enjoy being, anyway.

Oh for the days of steamer trunks, hatboxes, and servants. Of course, being descended from the hoi polloi, and Indigenous ones at that, I would have been one of the servants, and still would not have been dressing up to attend a performance

Trip is over, back in the US. Hungary Trip report is posted on forum: https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/trip-report-hungary-aug-2025