TA Refugee

Not sure what you are asking.

Are you referring to the bare-knuckle experience one finds on the Trip Advisor travel forum?

Transatlantic?

Travel Agent?

TripAdvisor?

Talent Aquisition?

Trading As?

Something else?

I'm with Robert. I'm sure it's about Trip Advisor. And CJean, surely you know that most people refer to TripAdvisor as TA here. I don't think it's any surprise that that's what it means. 😊

It's obvious (to me anyway) it's about Trip Advisor. Bit rich anyone on here calling others out for acronyms (initialisms), considering we got BSE from Bury St Edmonds the other day :)

I’m with Joe and I’m not going to assume what a TripAdvisor refugee might mean either. More clarification on what question you are asking, please!

The obvious reading of this post is that MissMarley has left Tripadvisor forums and come over to Rick Steves. When she uses the term ‘refugee’ she means she has left an unpleasant environment in search of a better experience.

She is wondering if anyone else has done the same.

Does anyone who has ceased posting on Trip Advisor now post here?

That was how I read it. Is that an assumption? Not the most well formed question ever posted, but I've seen worse.

Gee and here I thought “refugee” was a person that was forced to leave their country because of a well founded fear of being harmed, seeking safety in another country. But then I seem to know less and less in our current environment.

Pay no attention to that riffraff, MissMarleyGIrl --- welcome, welcome! You won't find as many longtime experts here as on Trip Advisor -- we're short on vets who do several trips a year, every year, because it's such a short hop from Britain, France, Norway etc. There's a oversuppply of N Americans who've mainly heard of Mykonos & Santorini (mainly because those are the only destinations that US travel agencies want to push). On the Other hand, on RS no inquiries about Hen Parties. and few about where can I be sure of seeing the Footie match.

Years ago, I lured my friend "Stanbr" over here, and he's shared his wisdom & amazing photos with his usual kindness and geniality. 2 others i first met on TA, have showed up, Alan from BRighton also chimes in with great tips, and dear Heimdall drops in to explain the joys of Antiparos. That French Fount of Knowledge, Jo-Lui, does a LOT of the heavy-lifting, in explaining transport. the European flight connections, and the ferry-driving-bus options in Greece for Yanks who are "public transit virgins" I'm hoping he gets some help, because he can't do it all!. We do hear from TommK5 of New Hampshire, about Pelops, and a lot from Valadelphia.

Although many newbies come to RS with no background whatever,, they come with open minds, and we cram them full of resources and homework, which they're good about undertaking. I'm gratified that several "newbies" have become serial travelers to Greece -- despite the $$$$$ plane fare from our Hemisphere!.. and some have become very helpful advisors as well. I feeel like a proud mama.

I'd love to see a bit more wit -- so I hope you'll stay, and lure over 123 Twinkletoes, maybe Philhellene to spice it up ... and others who have special insights, like Johnnie B for people who still insist on Mykonos. I think you'll find this forum a kinder, gentler one on tthe whole, and the webmaster keeps hands off. And YES -- the PM function is VERY good .. easier to you & keep tabs of messages -- and it's NOT gong away. So I' hope you'll brush off silly remarks & stick around. ... we can't let Venture Capital swallow up community everywhere!

Thanks for the welcome, Janet. I got great advice here when planning our trip to Spain quite a few years ago. I do agree that there is a difference in the granularity of the replies but at least you can get a reply! +1 for RS on that score! I look forward to being able to get advice and answers to questions about the trip I am planning for Sept. '26.

David that is indeed the case -- this article has some background -- https://www.phocuswire.com/tripadvisor-q3-2025-earnings Its the sad sad story In the US, and creeping forward elsewhere. Venture capital firms spot an "undervalued" enterprise, buy up a big percentage, and try to suck up all available profits to repay their investors. In the case of a Travel-advice (and tours) firm, this means focussing more on Tours & services than advice -- and cutting staffing costs by using AI to monitor member forums. First, the Private Message function was suddenly ended completely with no explanation. Then an anonymous (and unreachable) robotic monitor removes contributions, and even the original question with some hogwash sentence like "does not meet the standards of the Trip Advisor Community". Also, .. The Italy & Greece forums seem to be most affected... perhaps because the mainstay contributors not only offer advice, but opinions.

In the US, when helpful governmental functions, week after week, are being eliminated for no sensible reason, this kind of behind-the-scenes maneuvering is unsettling to say the least. Here at RS, we can only rely on what seem to be the longstanding principles and integrity, and (dare I say it) idealism of Mr Steves himself. Long may he wave!

Margie the term refugee is being used metaphorically here. I felt that usage was obvious and it’s interesting that others don’t read it that way. Maybe a cross culture issue.

Helen, that's the way I read it as well. I knew exactly what she was referring to as soon as she said it.

It's the same thing that happened with Chowhound, which was a wonderful site devoted to food and cooking and restaurants. It was taken over, and hordes of long-time devotees left. It's nothing but a shadow of its former self now.

Since I am/was a regular poster on TA (Trip Adviser) and know the OP from that website I fully understand what she meant.

I go by another avatar on TA but I won't reveal who that is but I will say that TA has become unfrendly toward its members.

It's about the company and its profits. They have cut personnel and are relying mostly on AI (ask Ollie) to answer questions and/or give advice rather than trusted members.

They no longer allow personal messages between members and are constantly removing "inappropriate" posts for no reason and/or closing threads and give no reason why except "inappropriate"

I'm assuming they are using AI to "watch" the forum and using algorithms to remove anything that may have a bad word, phrase, criticism of TA, etc.

Very poor treatment of long-time members who always got excellent advice about a trip rather than relying on some anonymous AI that may or may not be trying to recommend something that most people don't want.

Anyway I'll be here regularly as I usually am and will still be on TA but not sure for how long.

Thanks to Rick Steves website!

You betcha, Tommy .... and I hope to see more & more TA "regulars" discover this forum. We'll benefit from the broader range of experiences -- and maybe they will also. I myself, since I began visiting Greece 26 years ago and developed a happy addiiction have been on 4 travel forums ... and thru the years have found enduring friendships, both online and in some happy instances, also in person. On this Greece forum, we're united in our love for this remarkable (and quirky) country, its history, customs, food, people, landscape and more. It's made me a better and happier person to have these forum connections, and we must not let profiteering and AI take this opportunity. Mr Steves, please keep your ideals.

I use both forums as well (hoping TA can rally), and both serve their purpose. I like more big picture topics (hence my penchant here to encourage people to consider the mainland), and have less enthusiasm for answering questions that google would answer better, but I mostly hang out to learn from the really generous regulars here.
So, welcome missmarley!

Hi Missmarleygirl. I’ve followed in your wake and will be posting here in future too. I think I can recognise some regular TA contributors who are already members and look forward to becoming part of this travel community.

123TT,
I honestly think their goal is to close the forums through attrition. It may take some time, but eventually people will get tired of wasting their time... A slow, but inevitable, demise.

You are all welcome! I have been posting on and off (mostly off) at Trip Advisor for almost 20 years, and it makes me sad that this is happening. But we're happy to have you here!

yay, twinkletoes is here!. We sometimes get Brotherlee about Santorini, which we always appreciate, since SO many from the Western Hemisphere have it on their Must List, and although he & I differ on hotel locations, I defer to his amazing expertise on every aspect of Santorini visits, at both modest and ultraluxurious levels.

Well, I am saddened to hear about TA descending further into encrappification - IMHO they have been going down that road for a long, long time. On one hand, it's a wonderful resource, incredibly valuable, and like no other (sure, the signal-to-noise ratio was sometimes low, but where else you gonna go for questions about Eswatini or Sakhalin?). But from it's earliest days, all the rampant over-commercialization, all the annoying pop-ups, all the incessant control and overwhelming, heavy-handed "management" of users and user content was something I struggled with.

Truth be told, I was apparently banned there years ago. I had no idea what transgression I committed (I probably offered an opinion that was unpopular or ran against someone's perceived business interest). I didn't appreciate that, and I tried to rectify it, but was never able to reach a human to get a response. This was 5-10 years ago, long before so-called "AI" blew up in our consciousness. I could find no moderator, no human staff at all, who could or would respond to my emailed or posted questions. I tried creating a new account to post my question about why my previous account had been closed, and every new account was immediately shut down. All searches for a human contact went circular with nothing but finger-pointing and dead ends. It was Kafkaesque: your account was closed, we won't tell you why, you can't ask us why, you can't open a new account, just a technical brick wall. OK, fine, Be That Way. I gave up for a while.

I'm pretty savvy technically, have worked in IT for decades, created and hosted my own (non-travel) domain-specific forums, and managed online communities for a large Fortune 100 company for years, so I know my way around online stuff. And I can be persistent (OK, stubborn). One day I needed to do some research on pretty obscure places, and decided to try to re-engage TA. I set up a VPN, approached carefully, set up a new account, and was successful. I've been extremely careful (walking on eggshells) there but have used TA occasionally and lightly for the past couple years, with no troubles. But it's obvious that the Heavy Hand of TA is still Being That Way.

I can easily imagine that some for-profit entity "discovering" TA, quickly recognizing it's potential, but also quickly balking at letting it run in its longstanding format (just look at it's user-facing structure...). It would take an army of humans to moderate it (something that all tech companies abhor - their primary goal seems to be to shed labor, but that's just business, folks). I can easily imagine that "leadership" would simply throw some algorithms at it and let it bleed out, then repurpose it without a second thought.

If there is an exodus coming from TA, that may be a mixed blessing. It'll be good to gain more savvy travel insights here, but (depending on just how much of an exodus it is) managing the load may become a challenge. In any case, welcome to those who arrive looking to make positive contributions, as we who came before did, as most refugees always do...

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

(with apologies to Emma Lazarus, and RSE staff, especially our moderators)

Thanks for the welcome, folks. I won’t respond to your posts individually (would take quite some time!) but recognised you immediately, Jan.

Perhaps you can help me with an initial hiccup I’ve encountered here, please. How do you know when another comment has followed yours on a thread? (With trip advisor you tick a box to be kept informed and then receive an email advising of a response).

I thought no-one had commented after me on this thread, hence a late response (apologies!). I did tick a couple of boxes about notifications when signing up and thought I’d got that element covered but apparently not. Any help you can give would be very much appreciated. TIA.

Twinkletoes, one very annoying feature of this forum -- and I don't know why they don't change it, it would not be a biggie in reprogramming -- is that when you click to respond on a thread, you can ONLY see the original posting. Thus, you must open a 2nd screen to see the prvious postings. Grrrr. I've begged for change, with no luck.
Also, there is a maximum length on a given post... but that's not so awful, does remind us to stick to the subject.
One Good thing, there's no algorithm here that I know of, which would whack you if you stray slightly off-topic. sometimes in answering a query, i'm reminded of a funny incident at that location... and my anecdote doesn't trigger an A-I delete!

Twinkletoes, you can see every post you have participated in under your Travel Forum account page, there is a history section.

“Perhaps you can help me with an initial hiccup I’ve encountered here, please. How do you know when another comment has followed yours on a thread? (With trip advisor you tick a box to be kept informed and then receive an email advising of a response).”

The only person that gets notified of new posts is the OP. There is no way to be notified of activity on a thread as on TA.

Welcome to the new posters! Do remember that Rick provides the discussion forum as a side to the Rick Steves Europe tour business. It’s a different model from TA, including the “old” TA and the “really old” TA, lol. He doesn’t make money off the forum, no ads etc.

I do post both here and TA but my main TA forum is a US National Park so a different audience.

Thank you for your replies. I can see that, in some respects, this site is less user-friendly than t.a. Like now, I’d really like to look back (without leaving this box behind) on one of your posts in case I’ve misinterpreted it because I’m still not clear as to how I’m alerted to a new post having been added to a thread I’m currently active on (I mean without having to check in frequently and look to see if there’s anything additional been said). Sorry if I am not explaining myself too well.

I’m going to return here later to see if there’s been a response from anyone but I’m struggling to believe there isn’t something in the system I’m missing. Goes with the territory I’m afraid 👵!

Apologies. When I wrote my last post, I was messing about with trying to get my wording right (and especially, intelligible) that Pam must have posted in between times and I failed to read her response explaining that only the OP gets tipped off when a thread gets added to, so thank you Pam for putting my mind at rest that I wasn’t missing the obvious. Hopefully, familiarity will iron out any early navigational difficulties I encounter.

@Pam, Just curious, are you seeing the same level of meddling on your preferred TA forums that the Greece TA forum is experiencing? It seems to wax and wane...Maybe some preset cleansing schedule? Haven't paid close enough attention to know if there is a rhyme or reason to it...
Agreed... it would be nice to be able to see the previous posts while replying without having to open another window.

Another issue that should be fixed is that when someone posts a link to say their photos you leave Steves web page then go to the link.

You have to click the return arrow to get back to Steves.

On TA when you click on another link you get another page while TA is still in it's original window..

Not a big issue but would be nice if it could be fixed.

I've never had any of my threads/posts removed for no reason like TA has been doing lately.

I'll take Steves website for being more member friendly and hopefully more TA more migrate over to here.

I just noticed that the original post has been altered with this:

Anyone else?
Report
Bookmark this Topic

What's that all about?

The original post has NOT been altered.

If you are signed in to the forums, you will see "Report" under every single post. You, as a forum member, can report the post to the RS webmaster if you feel the post has violated community guidelines.

If you are not signed in, you will not see the report or bookmark links.

This site is extremely user friendly and welcoming. Take the time to read the "rules" and you should have few issues.

OK, I see that now.

That's on me!

Like now, I’d really like to look back (without leaving this box behind)

I usually duplicate the tab with the thread in my browser and then hit reply on the new copy when replying to a thread.

"@Pam, Just curious, are you seeing the same level of meddling on your preferred TA forums that the Greece TA forum is experiencing?"

No, but traffic has slowed WAY WAY WAY down on the Yellowstone/Wyoming forum since pre-Covid or even during Covid because there were lots of park visits during 2020. There is a proliferation of FB sites related to Yellowstone/visiting Yellowstone/etc so I think many people go there for advice. I used to try and follow some of them but there is seriously so much really, really terrible advice and nastiness on them that for my own sanity I just stick to TA. I also visit the Paris forum regularly and do not see meddling on there either. But also, I've noted a drop in traffic on there as well.

"I usually duplicate the tab with the thread in my browser and then hit reply on the new copy when replying to a thread."

I also suggest to the newbies, that when you hit the "add reply" button that you open that in a separate window then you can easily go back and forth thru the whole thread if you have a few posters to address. On my MAC that is Shift+Command+Touchpad. I think it was just a right click on my Windows-based system but my brain has struggled hard to forget that, hahaha.

Also know that on this forum you can edit without a dumb 5 minute time limit including the OP and OP title.

I agree with JeanM and feel this is more user-friendly than TA. There is more personal moderation and an overall nicer attitude most of the time.

I also suggest to the newbies, that when you hit the "add reply" button that you open that in a separate window then you can easily go back and forth thru the whole thread

It ends up I usually start replying to a thread, remember that there's something I want to quote or read again, duplicate the tab with the reply already started and go back to the thread in that new tab.

That sounded a bit complicated to explain first time though :)

I’m a TA regular, or I was, for many years so I guess I’m a refugee too but before that I was a LP refugee. I hate that TA removed the private message option. It’s really changed for the worse over the last year. Boy do I miss the lonely planet forum. I also use Fodor’s for research

The Rick Steves forum is gold!

With that said, as AI continues to consume, summarize, plagiarize and hallucinate while being relentlessly pushed by every tech giant on the planet, one has to wonder if the days of any and all forums are numbered. As for Trip Advisor, well, it hallucinated too!

Happy travels!

Well said David! I love this place.

I see already a few "names" I know so here I am: another TA refugee.

For those who don't know me from TA, I was Destination Expert for the Dodecanese islands. Some regular contributors on the TA Greece forum named me the "Greek ferry guru."
Like StanBr I also have quite a few albums on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131701596@N07/albums/

Hey Nicksy:

Welcome aboard.

Your excellent knowledge and experience of Greece and your input will be a valuable addition to the forum.

Fellow TA Refugee

Hi Folks

Another deserting a sinking ship the SS Boston

Hi everyone, like a few other new names on the Greece forum I’m giving it a try after watching Trip Advisor (TA) become unusable due to many very helpful posts being deleted.
I’ve posted on the TA Greece forum for a good few years, 6000+ posts and have carried my username over to this forum. I also post reviews on Google Maps.
Hi to missmarleygirl, Twinkletoes and Nicksy & Delboy too!
2026 sees me off to Samos in June and 3 weeks island hopping in the Dodecanese in September.

Welcome aboard sueevie….and to Nicksy and Delboy too. Look forward to seeing more posts from you all!!

Leaving the sinking ship as well. Great to see some TA names here, who were always helpful.

Got to get used to this forum style though :-D

I'm yet another TA user come over to try this Forum. Nice to 'see' some familiar names and I'm looking forward to having a much better experience!

Landed here from TA.
I do not post very often but try to be helpful when I can.
Kalo taxiedi

As name implies,lucky enough to have lived worked and visited numerous places. Europe Asia, USA,

Welcome to all the new people. We won't be short on info for Greece from here on in anyway :)

It would be good if the new people can contribute if they've travelled other places in Europe too. For the new people, the "All Topics" link will give you something new to read pretty much any time of the day. The forum tends to be busier starting from East Coast US times and all the way through the evening on the west coast. If you know a bit about your home country and are in Europe, post on a thread or two in those sections.

I no longer go abroad but spent recent times with Warner's Holidays up until this year but hoping my wife and I have a better year this year.
In the meantime, if I see any post that I can be helpful with, will be happy to assist

To MissMarleyGirl I notice that Ollie deletes posts showing no date of deletion but notice some posts do have an 'edit date'. If you see that 'edit date' and you know you did not edit your post it will give an indication that you have been targeted by an individual rather than the Bot. (Hope this is not considered off topic)

Since I am using another forum name here I thought it would be courteous to let others known my TA name

crazyh

Not sure I can change my current name here but some may have already guessed!

It’s great to see more ex-pats from the t.a. forums. As you will already have discovered, the set up here is different but hopefully familiarity will iron out any teething problems.

Don’t forget, there’s a pm option too so let’s put it to good use (if needs be).

Welcome to the new contributors!

One hint if you’re wanting to address a specific reply in a string of conversation - I just copy/paste their reply into my reply, so I can remember exactly what they wrote. Then I just delete their reply that I placed into my response before clicking “Add reply”.

New people and new points of view are MOST welcome! I went through this thread and love how some of you have also added info to your profile. Since you will have a small post count here for a while, I think it’s helpful (although completely optional) to see a bit more about you. :)

Thank you for the warm welcome Jean and TTM, also the very useful tip suggesting copy/pasting etc. I’ll definitely be adopting the practice in future, when necessary.

I’m afraid I won’t be anywhere near as helpful to the forum as some of my t.a. colleagues who’ve also now signed up with RS. I take package holidays in Europe (which include flights/accommodation and transfers) rather than travel independently so do not have the same wealth of knowledge about booking flights separately, times needed for transiting international airports and ferry routes/connections.

I’ve been to the USA just once…and that holiday was spent in Las Vegas, celebrating my husband’s birthday. We had the most wonderful time and I’m so glad we visited when we were younger because of all the walking involved when exploring ‘the strip’.

I look forward very much to becoming part of this friendly community.

I found how to change my name but since I've been using tommyk here when I joined I'll leave it as is for now.

Glad so many members of that "other" forum are showing up here as many of them were very experienced and provided valuable information and recommendations.

Hello 👋 from another TA Refugee!!! 😃
.. Looking forward to finding my way around! x

Welcome to all the TA Refugees!

We hope you feel at home in this new and strange place, and you're certainly safe here from the AI coming after you! You can find essentials over here and terms for making sure all is copacetic here. I'd point out the general store, but then I'd have to ban myself for promotion. ;)

I can appreciate that this new home is a bit more modest. (OK, I'll stop the refugee metaphor.) As others noted, this is not a monetized forum, so it doesn't get as many bells and whistles. This is a custom build and any feature must be built from scratch. It's been on my list for years to add what Twinkletoes is looking for (opting in to get notifications about replies in any thread, not just if you're the OP), but alas, I remain patient. We also don't have threading or, as noted, an ability to see all upthread posts as you reply. (Opening a Reply link in a new window is a great workaround.) Most of our technical oversight is spent on keeping things loading efficiently and keeping out spam. Aka, we keep it simple and we'll keep the lights on.

This "Webmaster" account holds the lead moderator role, something I've held since 2009, and many know my name is Andrew. There are other moderators that assist with spam and other straight-forward issues. We do not have community-member mods.

Tommyk5, coding a website to automatically open a link in a new tab/window is considered to be less ADA compliant these days. The approach is to allow the user to make that choice now. Ctrl click on windows desktops to open a link in a new tab.

Moderation here is likely going to be a bit different. We're up front that we don't have 24/7 coverage, so we ask for patience until we can handle issues. There is a guideline about not responding to guideline violations to prevent an issue from spreading until we can get there. I'd like to think that this is truly a nicer corner of the internet. This is largely a self-policing community. We are responsive to Reports and are protective of our members here - newbies, regular contributors, longtime members, and lurkers alike - in the face of impolite/rude behavior. We ask for patience and consideration for how you can help make things better if moderators ever contact you about a post. We're not here to moderate content outside of medical advice (seek your doctor), legal advice (seek a lawyer), and politics (seek another forum).

Badges are a nod to the volume of assistance given over time. We do not hold up any individuals as 'experts' as that can be limiting to the participation of others. Our forum is at its best when a variety of opinions and experiences are shared, and it's up to the OP to determine what's best for them. Our community is largely self correcting in the face of the occasional inaccuracy, and that's possible as long as we're polite and avoid arguments in our responses.

"Not sure I can change my current name here." Be sure to check out the My Account dropdown in the top corner to find a number of forum features.

We plan to keep a human touch in this forum for the long haul. We hope you enjoy it here, and we sincerely appreciate everyone who spends time helping other travelers.

WOW. What a breath of fresh air! Thank you! We will not disappoint you! :) 😎

Thank you Andrew, for acknowledging our Newcomers Party, and extending an "official" welcome. I may have started this migration over on a TA thread, by encouraging other Regulars who know me, by describing my other favorite pool, and saying jump in, the water's fine! i hope it will be mutually rewarding, and thank you so much for explaining how things work over here at Steves' House. I've made many friends here, and helped I hope. The greatest reward is when people come back and say, wow my trip was perfect.

Hello world,

We are also newbies, so will probebly break all the forum rules and end up sat outside the headmasters office!

We live in Molyvos, Lesvos so please feel free to ask us questions.

You can see current weather conditions at http://www.weather.molyvos.eu/

and HD time-lapse video of sunsets at https://www.youtube.com/@molyvosweather

Best wishes to all.

Another TA ‘refugee’ here. 👋 Good to see so many familiar faces! 🥰

Well it really is becoming a 'Boston Tea Party' after TA have thrown its valuable tea in the water lol

Another TA refugee, under a different name though :) Hi to all those I recognise! Look forward to seeing how I can help :)

Thanks for introducing yourself “webmaster” Andrew and for explaining the forum to the increasing number of defectors from TA. Lovely to see others joining too, there are some incredibly knowledgeable folk amongst the newbies (new members) who have always generously given their time and shared their experience with others.
Looking forward to being part of a positive and friendly Greece forum.

Just love the time lapse sunsets Rob & Carol. I may get to Lesvos in May, if so and I’m in your area I’ll message you.

Wonderful explanation from the Webmaster.

You won't get anything like that on that "other" forum other than deleting a thread/post for no reason.

FYI: I just got a email from TA about a thread/post:

Greetings Tripadvisor Member
Our moderation team has removed a topic you contributed to in the Athens Forum: "Public transport & taxis to/from airport."
We occasionally remove entire topics from our forums when we determine that the conversation is disruptive or is no longer helpful to travelers. Topics are also removed when the user that started the thread deletes their post.
The Tripadvisor Community Team

I have no idea when I "contributed" to that thread or even what I said or what others may have said other than "conversation is disruptive or is no longer helpful"

TA keeps digging themselves deeper and deeper in a hole with no way out!

I was notified that mine had been removed from the Lemnos forum due to "off topic chatter.".. and it may have been, but my chatter was simply trying to get a straight answer on the topic!

Missmarleygirl

Since I was the one answering your questions about Lemnos as "J-L," you can still ask them on this forum, whose moderation, when necessary, is genuinely intelligent and not at all artificial. :)

tommyk5, a clairification on how things work. If the Webmaster can edit a thread and keep it within the rules he will often do that. When its gotten too far out of hand for that or if he/she is just too busy then the thread is often deleted in full. If you are one of those who contributed to the situation you might receive a message from the Webmaster, or you might not. Unless the Webmaster contacts you, if you posted the thread or if you were a contributor; if you were guilty or if you were not guilty, the only way you will know the thread was deleted or if your post was deleted or if your post was editied was if you notice it no longer exists or notice that it has been modified. I'm not complaining. The system works. Just a heads up that there is no automaticaly generated notification process. You can always write the webmaster and ask about it, and so far, with me, his response rate has been 100%.

With all due respect to Mr. E, I would like to clarify his clarification. 😊

Generally, the issues Mr. E is talking about are not the norm and only come up occasionally. Usually it's when a thread gets so off topic that it's out of control, or if it goes into the political arena, which is also verboten here (unless there is a travel aspect to it), or if someone forgets to use common courtesy.

That said, I wouldn't worry too much about threads getting off topic. We're a friendly bunch here, and sometimes we venture off into side topics. I've been known to ramble on about a variety of things. But as long as it stays somewhat true to itself and there's no rudeness, it will usually be left alone.

Another one testing the water over here. Not with my current TA username, but with an old account. It may make sense to some people here who understand the abusive nature of one of the Greek forums on TA for the last few years.
Hello to all the names I know.

I hope to be of help to people planning trips, particularly to Crete. I still love the Big Island, although I moved back home after many years living there, I do still holiday there often.

Another ‘refugee’ from mostly the Skiathos, Lefkada and Madeira Islands Forums on TA. By no means an expert but have both received and given useful advice for over 10 years - sadly this is no longer possible on TA so I’m sure I’m going to be seeing familiar names/contributors here!

Just waving a hello and there are certainly a few familiar names :-)

Funnily enough I was a TA Refugee until someone started boasted that they had got rid of me off of the Crete forum so I decided to start posting again. Sadly some of the TA forums had become far more about scoring points than giving genuine advice and the Crete Forum has been dead for at least a year even before all the recent deletions with so many forum regulars driven away by a very small clique.

Well, I would like to say thank you to the Webmaster, once again, for the warm welcome he gave to all of us. He has certainly set the stage for a thoughtful, kind exchange of ideas. I have yet to post a true question, but I am really glad to see all the expertise that is now available on this forum. I plan to post a couple of questions soon! Thank you, Andrew, for permitting us to get the TA drama out of our systems!

Oh dear, that didn't take long.
I won't be playing that game, so I'm out
Hope this forum works out better for others, do be aware of those who don't have good intentions.

Come on, guys. Play nice. There's enough room in the sand box for everybody. 😎

Hopefully this site is far friendlier, less cliquey and far more informative than some of the TA Forums had become in the last year or so.

"There's enough room in the sand box for everybody." great expression and couldn't agree more :-)

Hi all on here
I have spotted some familiar names from the forum that I and other people have left, looking forward to BA able to answer questions on my favourite places, Lesbos and elounda in Crete. Plus other places I frequent 😀😎

A warm welcome to all you new TA refugees! I am sort of one myself, from Thorn Tree and Virtual Tourist, although I've been hanging out in the RS sandbox since before the demise of both. I refused to have anything to do TA when they bought Virtual Tourist only to kill it AND lift content members had contributed for another of its sites. Shame for all of you who've been there a long time that it has deteriorated so badly, though.

I do wish we could post photos but as Andrew explained, these forums aren't monetized so there's a limit to the extras we can have. I also wish for busier forums outside of the European countries but as the name of this site is "Rick Steves Europe", well there ya go. :O)

Anyway, this is a friendly community of good folks generous with their help and advice so I hope you find your happy place here!

Welcome to expat-nomad. I remember your posts on the Rhodes and Tinos forums.

a great big welcome to all our new friends!

I'm used to welcoming occasional new members, not a whole room full at a time ;-)

So I'm even happier to be able to in bulk - welcome aboard our little happy ship of fellow travellers.

A very easy way to indicate a quote in this pretty primitive but very effective markup is to start a new line with a right hand pointing caret ">" and then the quoted text.

For example i want to show a new person how to have both their adopted Rick Steves username and their name in the other place show up, so...

I found how to change my name but since I've been using tommyk here when I joined I'll leave it as is for now.

All you have to do, tommyk is when logged in follow the name change advice upthread but instead of changing the name change where from bit to also include the other name, "NH(USA) aka crazyh"

and then when you post both will be seen ... presto chango.

Have a look for instance as how I describe myself on posts...

and once again, WELCOME ALL

(once you've been here a while you may discover some of our other great forums, and the all topics view, and my take on the alphabet)

And another refugee from TA! I'm not a prolific poster on the Greece forum, but I answer things when I can - and as I've recently started travelling again to Greece after a hiatus due to Covid and husband's illness (he died a couple of months ago), I'm asking questions, too.

I have very good friends who now live permanently on Syros, so I know that well, plus Sifnos, Milos and a bit about Amorgos and Tinos. I've been travelling to Greece on and off since the mid-1970s! In late May/early June I have flights to Athens booked, and will visit Syros and Amorgos, and hopefully add Astypalea and either Folegendros or one of the lesser Cyclades islands (I have four weeks to play with!).

I'm also in the India and Thailand TA forums a lot, though they have not been experiencing the problems of the Greek forum (India has its own issues - very little genuine traveller exchanges, mainly tour companies replying to queries).

I notice that there is no dedicated page for Lesvos. Can we help set this up?

Why should Lesvos be added?

1. Lesvos is the third largest of the Greek islands.
2. It is the home of ouzo.
3. Lesvos is the birthp[ace of Sappho.
4. Aristotle, The Father of Zoology wrote "The history of animals" while on Lesvos.
5. Lesvos is the birthplace of Theophrastus, The Father of Botany.
6. Lesvos has the petrified forest, regarded as the most important in the world.

I could go on.

And before the debate starts, please take it from a 16 yearresident, the locals call it Lesvos not Lesbos.

We ‘ta refugees’ could not have received a warmer welcome so thank you to all RS regulars who’ve been so kind in adopting us en masse and giving user tips here and there.

I hope our numbers continue to increase and your forum benefits from the vast travel experience offered by some of our veteran posters.

The site does have pages dedicated to areas within countries.

https://www.ricksteves.com/europe/greece

including individual islands

https://www.ricksteves.com/europe/greece/greek-islands

but the only islands covered are Hydra, Mykonos and Santorini.

I am simply suggesting expanding this very limited range and am happy to help.

Hi Missmarleygirl I have sent you a pm

I am another who posts on both TA and RS pages, although I have for a long while.

I am not a prolific poster on either, but I am a prolific reader.

I followed the Greece forums for the last year or so as we did our first Greece trip in October.

Prior to that I was following the Switzerland pages, both here and on TA as we spent our 40th in Switzerland back in 2024.

This year we are going to France, yet again, so will be posting on both.

I definitely feel that the TA forums are dying and it has been happening since covid. I think they are being replaced by this and others such as Fodor's, but more particularly by Facebook travel groups which are growing at a rapid rate.

Welcome Missmarleygirl, you helped with our trip on TA, and it is nice to see you here.

It is very welcoming.

Just a little about my TA experience - for years, even before I found the Rick Steves forums (when it was still the Graffiti Wall) I was active on TA, providing many hundred reviews and questions and answers.

After my reviews started being deleted if I didn't toe the line, and when the paid for reviews outnumbered the genuine ones I left. I still have an account but never log in. If I want to read a review I do so anonymously.

All my love and help is here now.

I'm not a TA "refugee" - yet at least - but I'm getting fed up with TA due to the fact that I haven't been able to post for three days, and despite having asked, have not been informed how long it will take to fix this issue. In addition, after six days I haven't received a reply to what TA wil do to fix the mess on the Greece forum.
I've browsed this forum a number of times, and seldom find any questions I'm able to reply to. When I have a question, I often find TA destination forums and Facebook groups for the destination in question useful. It's too bad this forum doesn't have subforums. But maybe I will find it more useful and be able to contribute now that there are a number of new members. It certainly seems to be a welcoming forum!

Nigel:

I was able to change my profile info and added "aka crazyh"

Already getting a lot of great advice here..

Thanks!

what a nice bunch we are.... (blushing)

another TA switch here. hi all.

I realise it is completely personal choice but it would have been very nice to recognise each ‘refugee’ by their previous user name on the t.a. Greece forum so that old acquaintanceships can continue.

Crazyh chose to add an ‘aka’ against his profile name here, which was very helpful because I recognised the tone of his post but was unsure whether it was him or not. I’ve always enjoyed reading Crazyh’s trip reports and hope they will continue to be posted on this forum.

For those who know me - I'm Catwoman02 on TA.

Twinkletoes (I love that name)

I've was with TA for many, many years and got a lot of help and information over the years and "met" many wonderful fellow travelers via PMs.

Unfortunately things have changed on TA and how members are being treated. While it still is helpful I think we'll be treated better here and while this forum doesn't have all the features of the "other" one it's still a more friendlier and happier forum to be on.

I'm on my way to Lemnos next April and will offer my trip report afterward.

The hard part is having to wait a few more months but my research continues and hopefully anyone who has been to Lemnos can offer more personal advice on the island.

One "good" thing about TA is if there is a forum destination that doesn't get many threads/posts could be the type of area of Greece I look at.

If it doesn't get the hype like Santorini, Mykonos or other Big Name Islands it may be worth looking into.

Thanks for liking my trip reports.

Twinkletoes I’ve edited my name on here now - not that there would have been much confusion as it was just transposed fore and surnames. Anyway will be interesting to see how this new forum pans out. Nice as many of the posters sound I’m not sure how easy it is to hone in on the places of interest and to navigate - early days so no judgment on that yet tbh!

Hi Blackbird…..I spotted Norway and wondered if you were Catwoman….nice to have it confirmed now!

Crazyh (hope it’s ok to still call you that). I’ve been reading your posts for years on t.a. so am very familiar with your travel style and type of destinations you like to head for. Look forward to hearing what you make of Lemnos in April. Glad you like my name…thank you!

Hi JanetteB. You’ll find there are some significant differences here…one being no notifications of new posts for threads you’re active in (unless you are the OP) so no trigger to read additional input (I have to keep reminding myself to ‘check in’ from time to time). But, it’s nice to have a pm function back again and manoeuvring around the site is getting easier every day.

I’m not sure I’m going to be able to contribute much here as most are independent travellers and circumstances are such that I take package deals so am limited on what I can offer. Nice to be part of this friendly community now though. ☺️

Hi all, well like most of you on here I love Greece, particularly Corfu, Parga & more recently discovered Lesvos.
Been twice & heading back in June.
I've been on tripadvisor for many years, hence I thought I'd update my profile name as many years since I was 49!
Looking forward to having posts stay in place, & hopefully navigate the site.
Thanks to TT for giving me the link.😀

Twinkletoes:

It's OK to call me crazyh (my hero was the Lakota Warrior Crazy Horse)

Hey all, to easily see if there is recent activity on a thread your participating in, go to My Account>Travel Forum>My History.

Thank you all for this explanation! As a longtime TA member, I was stunned last night when I asked a question in the Greece/Cyclades forum and saw the response someone had posted had been removed. Then when I asked if I could PM her, I was told they had shut down that capability.
I have used this forum before and now am happily back. Thanks again.

Welcome Gracie. Delighted to see you’ve joined us here.

Crazyh, thank you.

Momorichel. Would you mind sharing your TA name, please? (It’s nice to know which ‘refugees’ we’re talking to).

Hi everyone! I’m seeing some familiar names that helped me last year with the logistics of spring travel in Crete. Been happy to return the favor since (though not a regular or long time poster) but I hated seeing carefully crafted posts randomly deleted and gobbled up by TA’s AI tool for whatever purposes. So I’m excited to give “RS” a go😀

To make this post a bit more Greece related: I’m planning a trip to a mountain village in the Pelion region for a week of Greek conversation lessons, organized by my language school here in Amsterdam. Hoping to finally reach B levels!

I know some of you knew straight away who I was on TA, for those who haven’t worked it out I was Yiassas :)

Well hello friends - I was yeshekathy on TA... just got mad and I'm not going to take it!

Well anyway, I am here looking for somewhere else to ask my questions and possibly answer some from others who haven't visited Greece so often.

What a pity about Tripadvisor and their new behaviour... and Ollie knows very little, you can get more info from google. I tried it out and Ollie was wrong about the two questions I put to him/her/it.

So here I am back on Rick Steves' site and will try Fodors again too. That said, I really loved TA and will miss the people there. I hope lots move over here!

salnav

Nice to have you join up here.

You provided me with a lot of information and answered a lot of questions on the "other" forum and it really made a difference about travel to Greece.

is there any way of going straight to the last post of a thread rather than the start each time?
thanks
EDIT: found it, the 'jump to bottom link'.

Just hold ctrl and then hit end

David:

Didn't know that but it works just like ctrl home/end but with one less key stroke.

Isn't great we are already learning new things here even if it doesn't pertain to travel and it won't get deleted!

Hi . Another TA refugee here....TomV . Been with them for over 20 yrs and benefitted and enjoyed the contact ,but things move on , don't they! Hi to all and hopefully the start of a beautiful friendship... .

Welcome Tommmo. So glad you could join us other ‘ta refugees’. Not much here that I can help with unfortunately as many questions pertain to Cycladic islands and mainland Greece, which of course are popular destinations for transatlantic visitors but are not on my past holiday list. Nice to be part of such a friendly community though.

Hello another TA refugee here👋
Good to see many familiar names on this forum.

I think areas of interest and advice to which we can contribute, will broaden once we start and post our own questions and/or trip reports. I for one will no doubt look for some recommendations especially for my trip to Samos. It’s years since I was there and I’ve never been to Kokkari before.

Hi I managed to find my way here ,thanks for the link
Kept my TA name it’s easier
Hoping this site will be as helpful as I’m used to, once I get the hang of it !

Lovely to see you Bonnie, it will take a little time for us all to get used to posting here, at least nothing gets deleted!

Yai. Welcome Bonnie and Bougieb!! Great to see you both here. Just wish we could get the message out to posters on t.a. to use this forum instead. (I might have something to offer then!).

Hi! Another TA refugee testing the water here

Come for a look around

Hi and welcome JeanCrete and David W. The site takes a little getting used to but it’s good to have a PM facility again.

You’ll find that lots of questions here relate to mainland Greece and the Cyclades, neither of which I can help with, unfortunately. Nice to be part of a travel community where the fear of post removals doesn’t hover constantly.

Yes, I can see that it's heavily slanted towards American visitors who generally don't have much holiday time to explore more remote places. But at least it's not a useless AI hellhole like Tripadvisor has become.

OK... I will probably try Andrew's patience with this response....but I will give it a go...
I think this forum is heavy with N. Americans because of the nature of RS. He's an American who makes his money by promoting his tours to Americans. To be perfectly honest, the reason I do not use this forum is because our travel style differs pretty dramatically from most who are on here. We used to say that we'd not go anywhere RS has been, although I did find myself standing next to him in a small village in France once! And, I do not buy his guide books. 😎
RS promotes tours, and the RS forums attract those types of travelers. I honestly think that it's more that than lack of vacation time.

You might be right but the fact that the US is a long way away and people in the US tend to have a lot less vacation time than most Europeans also means that they are not repeat visitors (whereas I know quite a few Europeans who have come to Crete 50 and even 100 times) and also try to 'do' as many things as possible in a short time.
There are exceptions...but they are not the 'American tourist in Greece' norm.

I think you right, you are more likely to get a "typical American tourist" here on this forum than on TA. It's one of the reasons I have never used it.

Just curious, how much vacation time is typical for Europeans?

Typical American tourist on this forum?

Maybe.

I tend to think the typical American tourist goes to Orlando and not to the Cinque Terra.

But fine tuning your interesting observation to “typical American Tourist in Europe”, I again tend to think the RS type of tourist is different still. I am not sure there is a strong grouping either.

Before I went on one his tours, I used his books — but never thought I’d ever be a tour taker. I worked in Germany for a stint, my company had a reseller in Belgium and also a small office Hungary so I’d made it to Europe quite a bit. My first trip was just after high school where I took a bike trip across Europe by myself for a couple months, no planning. My wife and I walked the Camino, we did our honeymoon in Belize and Guatemala== we've been all over the place.

And I don’t know if we’re typical RS types or not. I think the forum is fairly varied. We’ve some great experts in areas— one fellow who lives out of suitcase seemingly 9 months a year, some brits who know every bus and train route in existence, folks who’ve been to over 100 countries and then of course we’ve got sad sacks like me who are from Cleveland and have to watch Browns games!

Typical? I dunno. Some oddballs like me though.

I think you’ll like it here! I look forward to seeing what you TA folks add!

Happy travels!

"Just curious, how much vacation time is typical for European"
4 to 5 weeks. With 4 weeks (20 days) being the legal minimum in the EU for full-time employees

Thanks! My other half gets 5 - 6 weeks, and I have the summers off. :) So at least for us, more than is typical for Europeans.

Missmarleygirl, other than Rick is an American with an American travel company, I dont agree with much else. And you have no idea what you are missing by avoiding London, Paris, Rome, Florence, Vienna, Prague, Barcelona ...

My less than scientifically based perception is that the average member of the forum is over 50 years of age, in in a position with retirement or business benefits to travel not less than 4 weeks a year which is not a different amount of time than European holidays. I also am guessing that the average member is in the top 20% if not 15% of all wage earners in the US or has a pretty sweet retirement plan. I doubt if even 25% of the members have been on a RS tour. My impression that the average member prefers a little slower pace than a typical RS tour and checks a suitcase. This is a privileged group and none of this is in the same catagory of a typical American tourists.

But just my guess.

Missmarleygirl, we have never and will never take one of Rick's tours(I like elevators), but I find his books very helpful, especially for transportation logistics. We have taken a few tours with some of the other large tour operators, but usually travel on our own.
Because of the vacation time issue, this forum does skew towards people of retirement age.

As an American I've never taken a tour anywhere I've traveled to.

I first saw Steve's shows years ago and enjoyed them as I had never been to Europe and his shows gave me a quick glimpse of what's out there in Europe.

His shows are a first step in traveling and is one of many "tools" available like websites, other guide books and travel forums.

I prefer to book everything myself (flight, accommodations, rental car, transfers, etc.)

I find it enlightening, educational, fun and gives me the opportunity to communicate with locals where ever I go, especially accommodation owners.

I have nothing against anyone who prefers to take a tour as they are convenient, mostly stress free but they do tend to be more expensive.

Some of the other members of this forum prefer to book their own trips but I never really asked any one on this forum what their preference is.

As far as being a high income person . . . I am not.

I am not cheap but I am economical and do a lot of research on bookings.

I can't see spending a lot of money on a high end accommodation when you'll be spending more time outside of it.

I shop at local markets for breakfast and lunches and go out to eat at night with an occasional lunch somewhere.

I've been going to Greece every year since 2010 and have visited numerous islands and parts of the Peloponnese avoiding the usual tourist magnets, Big Name Islands, and areas hyped by glossy travel magazines and travel agents.

There are many parts of Greece that don't get the hordes of tourists and that's mostly where I've been and continue to go to.

I have nothing against anyone, especially first timers to Greece but do your research, ask questions here and elsewhere and make sure your holiday turns out as well as you expected it to be.

You can travel for far less than you think if you do your research and that is one of the good things about this forum and others.

You can help others make decisions based on their budget from low to mid to high.

In closing I am a Greek-American and consider Greece my "second home" and while there are many other countries to visit Greece keeps calling me . . . like once again this April!

Thanks for your detailed explanation David, it's a good introduction to where we have escaped to ;-)
As for "making assumptions about Americans" .... I have met many US citizens in my line of work as a hiking guide in Crete and Nepal so it's not only assumptions. But of course the type of American you meet on a 4 weeks trek in Nepal is probably not the average American.

Just curious, how much vacation time is typical for European

When I was a full time employee before retiring I got 4 weeks annual leave each year plus 6 "application days" which needed to be scheduled. Because we had a 36 hour / 4 day revolving work week it was very easy to cobble together additional weeks by putting the 5 day long weekend with application days to get a couple of extra full weeks off.

I was working for a British passenger railway company. Loved it - if my wide hadn't become ill I would still be there.

By the way, I've never been on a tour bus of any flavour.

David in Seattle, what a great explanation of Rick Steves, thank you.

I am Australian (well half of me is, I just had to apply for a new British passport, so I am both) and watched his shows here years ago and enjoyed them.

I wouldn't dream of doing any form of tour, except a private day trip since we don't like driving on the "wrong" side of the road.

I do have a lot of his books, the Kindle version, which is my preferred way of reading, plus they are there when I travel.

I do like his books, along with other research such as the now almost useless TA, this forum and Facebook groups.

My only problem with Rick is that he is often too much about what he likes rather than sticking to the facts.

A few years ago we spent a few days in Bordeaux and his France book doesn't even mention that the city exists! He apparently doesn't like it.

Well I now know that he has missed out.

The same in Switzerland, he pushed Gimmelwald so much that what was once a cute little village is not mass tourists.

Still I do thank you for the explanation, it was very interesting.

David in Seattle. If you do post a query on t.a., be sure to either screenshot or copy any replies immediately because they will likely be removed promptly by our new moderator, Ollie. What a pain he is too ☹️. However, if you ever need advice from JeanCrete only you need look no further than here. Smart move by Jean, eh?

Most of the TA folks are probably much more technologically astute than I am, but this is one of my favorite tools to keep up on what’s being posted in the realm in which I many know something useful so I have a link on my laptop to this that I check in the mornings:

site:ricksteves.com/travel-forum Montenegro

and another for the other two places in the world that I know anything about.

One thing I wish we participated in more often is Profile Pages. If I am going to take advice from someone, I will have a lot more confidence if I know even a tiny thing about them, but maybe a fourth of the members have anything on their profile page.

Sounds like a great, diverse group of people!

My first time to Greece was back in the 60's.. I have been back multiple times. In fact, my parents put me on a plane in Athens, all by myself, and I flew to Jonkoping, Sweden, alone, at the age of 13! Multiple stops, and even airport changes. Can you imagine doing that now? 😳 You could say I got the travel bug at an early age! :).

@ Mr. E: "And you have no idea what you are missing by avoiding London, Paris, Rome, Florence, Vienna, Prague, Barcelona ..." Oh, but I do know what we are missing... I have been to all of the above and have absolutely no desire to go back... We don't do cities or crowds any more. And, we avoid "resorts" like the plague.

I do think that most of the people here are older... Reddit (a jungle), Threads, (an instagram company) and Facebook (hate it) are far more active with people under 50.

As to being in the top 15-20% of wage earners, sadly not this gal... With that said, I am clearly privileged.... and grateful for it. I saw a lot back in the 60's (Middle East, Africa) that made me exquisitely aware of how fortunate I am to have been born in the right place. Luck of the draw that I am grateful for every single day.

I think this site has everything to gain and nothing to lose with the influx of new users. It's TA's loss and RS's gain. I'm getting lots of good info already!

It's a lot easier for Europeans to travel to other parts of Europe as you have direct flights to another country. It's also probably quicker and less expensive.

Many Europeans can fly direct to a Greek Island whereas Americans cannot.

Americans have to pay high prices to fly to Europe and there's usually at least one transfer somewhere. In addition costs can be quite high depending on what part of America you fly from.

Most Americans travel to other parts of the US as you can drive almost anywhere including Alaska!

In the end this shouldn't be about what country you come from, what your age is or how much money you have.

This should be about finding information about travel, giving and getting advice and helping out your fellow traveler.

We need more cooperation and understanding in these very troubled time.

Let's stick together rather than categorizing who and what we are!

Mr. E's guesstimates about the economic & leisure-time status of R Steves regulars may be intended as a corrective about our travel experience, but I bristle a bit at being assumed affluent, able to travel frequently and, like him, "privileged." I do feel lucky about my enduring good health and mental acuity, and the discoveries & memories that Greece has provided, but (like most retired journalists) i'm certainly not in his income bracket and have had to scrape & pinch-penny for every trip.

In fact, probably because of my posts of budgeteering tips, over the years I've been PM'd by many N Americans who also have scrimped to enable a long-desired Greece adventure. Most of these also have to schedule carefully, to get 2 precious weeks away from jobs as social workers, teachers, mid-level administrators. These are the folks I feel best about, when I can help them work out a time-efficient itinerary, to see their most-wanted destinations, staying in well-located comfy affordable lodgings. Although well-informed about upscale places, I'm not as inclined to respond to people who specify "only 4-star" ... and interestingly, this forum doesn't get as many of those requests as others do.

As for Mr Steves, I know the history of his start & the company's growth & change ... it's inevitable that no enterprise can stay totally "pure" as responsibilities increase. I don't fault him for not covering all of Greece, jus help people to utilize what he does best. I believe his guide is Very accessible & useful for first-timers Athens & the major Peloponnese sites. And he does have THE most useful "phrase guide" available, with vital help on pronunciation -- I photocopy it & give it to anyone who goes with me, He should also be praised for promoting and providing FREE audio downloads of step-by-step DIY guides to Major sites in many countries. No other travel enterprises do this. and of course, as someone who has seen so many once-wonderful travel forums fail or fade, I honor the company's commitment to standards on this website. 'Nuf said.

If anyone is interested, I wrote myself (with AI support) a little script, that allows to jump to the last opened message in a thread.
All it does, it saves the last message of a thread (if it was opened) to the local device storage whenever a thread is opened. Adds a tiny button on top right "Jump to last read" next to "Jump to bottom" and allows you to go to the last message you have seen.

Downside is:
As this information is only saved on the device, it only works in this particular browser. Also needs an additional browser plugin like Tampermonkey (which takes two clicks to install and configure).

janet, sorry if you took any of it as critical or .... ? I am not sure of the definition of affluence. I think it’s relative. To my friends in Albania, I am affluent to my friends in WDC I am po white trash. I do fit both descriptions pretty well from time to time. The top 20% of US wage earners translates to those individuals making $100,000 to $130,000 a year. Maybe I guessed wrong for those who can afford a month in Europe every year? Don’t know. I live on substantially less, which is why I live in (i think) the poorest or second poorest country in the EU. I can afford it better than I can in the US.

Privileged. Oh, heck yes. I have acquaintances literally die in Ukraine, and friends looking for a safe home any place in the world to protect their children while mine live in safety with good educations and jobs. I have friends and family in Latin America that live on 25% of what I live on. I have leveraged everything I have to see the world; I know people who have leveraged everything they have to save their family from the police in Iran. I have artifacts inherited through 5 generations of my family. I have friends that lost 5 generations of ranching to communist Latin American governments. No city in my state has been bombed in any world war. I can stand up and tell my government where to go and then sleep at home at night. H-yes, I am privileged.

Happier, want to have some fun. Go to Google AI (I imagine the others work as well). Ask it "who is insert your name on this forum or on the TA forum __ on the _insert forum name. In my case it divulges among other things my real name.

Regarding what Blackdog is offering, I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't broadly say that accepting code from another here - no matter how much you might trust them - involves significant risk. If you like the idea, I recommend following the "how" that was provided instead of accepting someone else's code.

Regarding affluence and the frequency of American visitors to Greece (and especially Santorini), I, as a ‘Brit’ through and through, am stunned by what some Americans are prepared to pay for an overnight room rate, which is often more than my whole holiday (including spending money) costs!

Facebook had a mention earlier. I had always shunned this site but joined when updates regarding a local construction programme were being posted there. I avoid all socialising on the site but please do not under-estimate how much useful information on accommodation, resorts, car hire etc can be found there. As a research tool, it can be very useful indeed and often gives access to the very latest information. Sign up….you are in charge of who sees what regarding yourself and what you post. I am not even ‘friends’ with my own family on there because I do not like sharing my every move with anybody.

OK... I will probably try Andrew's patience with this response....but I will give it a go...
I think this forum is heavy with N. Americans because of the nature of RS. He's an American who makes his money by promoting his tours to Americans. To be perfectly honest, the reason I do not use this forum is because our travel style differs pretty dramatically from most who are on here. We used to say that we'd not go anywhere RS has been, although I did find myself standing next to him in a small village in France once! And, I do not buy his guide books. 😎

You are not trying my patience. :) Reasonable critiques about Rick and the business are accepted here as we know that our business - the guidebooks, tours, etc - aren't for everyone. David has given a lot of additional context about Rick and his background (thx!) - rooted in budget travel - which catches folks up to the point of creating this forum. Rick's business encourages Americans (and Canadians!) to get a passport and travel (more here). So, you will see a lot of North Americans here, and a subset of them will be new to travel (some patience required). You gotta start somewhere! Yes, the origination of this forum was to provide a space for our customers to ask questions about travel to Europe.

Today, this forum attracts millions from across the internet based on their needs and queries via the Googles, not just our customer base. We appreciate the many European contributors for their time and local knowledge. We never limited this forum as to who gets to ask questions or give advice. The forum was meant to provide a space for travelers to help each other and fill in all the gaps that guidebooks can't cover for varying travel styles, itineraries, and needs. "...Our travel style differs pretty dramatically..." All good. You are welcome here.

Bravo, webmaster.

Mr E US UE HU, I just tried what you suggested with ChatGPT and it is scary how quickly and how much information it came back with.

Luckily my real name wasn't part of it but lots was.

Twinkletoes, I completely agree re Facebook. I too was born in England but live in Australia and have for 50 years. I had many, many cousins back home and through Facebook I am now in regular contact with many of them, which brings me lots of joy.

We have been able to organise catchups and just chat.

Another TA forum that I am involved in has now set up its own private Facebook group, since direct messaging was stopped, and we are loving it. It is completely private and we can easily share photos and comments.

I also agree with the huge wealth of information that is out there in the Facebook travel groups, probably another reason why TA is dying too.

Regarding what Blackdog is offering, I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't broadly say that accepting code from another here - no matter how much you might trust them - involves significant risk. If you like the idea, I recommend following the "how" that was provided instead of accepting someone else's code.

Sure, I understand that one should never trust strangers on the internet, you are absolutely right about that. I just did not know where to share it publicly, so I offered it here, as it was something I did for myself that might be useful to others as well.

DebH I said that wondering how many would plug in my Mr. E to see who I really was. Yes, it will give you my real name, but like most of AI, its not the right name. I did plug in that name to see if it linked back to the RS forum and it turned out to be the name of a 19th century Buffalo Soldier so if it had been me, at least I would have been in good company. But the part about world renowned expert I guess was correct.

I mention this because about a week ago someone on here was corrected by another and the source of the correction came from AI. Hmmmmmmm Now I call those Buffalo Soldier answers.

As for using code received from a unknown person on the internet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sek1vLw3s20

Andrew,
You may turn me into a Rick Steves convert, yet! I just love the human touch here...
And, I did read his interview with Vanity Fair back in May.

Right on, Rick. :)

Obviously it takes money to travel to far off places.

For Americans it's mostly the cost of the flight which can be quite expensive depending on when you book.

Accommodations is probably the second most expense.

Then it's how you are getting around Greece. Bus is very inexpensive but not always the most convenient. Taxis can be pricey and for the most part not the best way to travel around Greece.

The most expensive but the most "bang for your buck" (US expression) is renting a car which gives you the ultimate freedom.

Then there is eating out which you can spend very little or a lot depending on your tastes and where you eat. Lots of options all over Greece but you can eat surprisingly for far less than you can in the US. Not sure about other parts of the world.

Having stated all that you can save quite a lot of money by doing the trip yourself which many experienced travelers do.

Book your own flight, accommodations, transfers, travel around Greece, shop at local markets for basic food staples and then eating out for all or some of your meals.

Most of my trips are anywhere from 14-16 days plus two travel days, before/after trip.

The majority of costs including all the above have been depending when I first started travel to Greece have been well under $2,000 (1,750 euros) to around $2,500 (2,132 euros)

Costs also depend on the Euro to US Dollar rate.

Some may say that's not much or say that's too much but considering what I would spend for 14-16 days in the US Greece is a bargain and I'm not scrimping on having an enjoyable time in Greece.

One way to keep cost down is to avoid overpriced tourist trap islands such as Mykonos and Santorini.
The second good way is not to go to expensive hotels unless you have a very good reason for choosing such a place. Cheap hotels (or AirBNB) have come a long way from the 'rent rooms' of 40 years ago and will offer most of the amenities you need, especially considering that you are very likely to be out of your room for most of the day.
As for 'The most expensive ... is renting a car" I don't find it expensive especially if you rent for a week or more. A small car (which is all you need unless you're a family travelling) can easily be found for 20 or 25 Euro per day (except possibly in peak season). Automatic cars might cost a small premium.

Renting a car does not just include the cost of the car but also the cost of fuel which is much higher in Greece/Europe than in the US.

Still for me it's a bargain as I can go anywhere I want, at any time and see parts of Greece tourists never even think or know about.

I also get the least expensive car available anywhere from 20-25 euros a day and for me it's worth the price.

It's also possible you can get a better price if you offer cash which is controversial as there is no "paper trail" with cash.

Yes, I have seen people rent cars for as a little as 7 or 8 Euro a day which is unbelievably cheap (but probably better for the rental company than having them sit unused in their car park).
As for no paper trail, I don't think that this works with car rental as the cars need to be insured and a contract has to be made. But cash might still be preferred

These budgeteering tips are SO useful, they should not be piggybacked on this "TA Refugee" thread, which started in order to welcome all you wonderful newcomers/refugees ... I suggest that New & longstanding RS members who are dedicated Frequent & expert Greece travelers start a fab NEW thread, maybe called "Great Greece times on a budget" or "How to pay less, experience more in Greece" ,.. someone else will think of a better headlline..

I'm not sure where this should go, but wanted to add some clarifications to those car hire prices- we've hired cars for those prices but it does not include insurance. If you want the full insurance that usually doubles the price. You can go without that but you need to be very confident you won't cause any damage (nor will any other drivers).

North American trippers quite often quote eye watering prices which they are prepared to pay for a hotel.. there are many many places to stay which are much more reasonable. Even in the most least Greek places.

janet:

I agree.

This thread started out as people who wanted to leave TA and why.

But as many threads go they start out on topic then transition to something that has nothing to do with the original thread.

TA REFUGEE was a good thread with lots of reasons why "refugees" were fed up with TA.

Let's start talking about travel to Greece and advising those who need information and help.