Greek itinerary feedback

Just based on our experience.
You actually have 4 days in Chania and 2 days in Heraklion. I would add a day to Chania and go to Heraklion on the earliest bus. That will give you time to get to Knossos. I am biased but Chania is a wonderful experience, Heraklion not so much.
Have you researched ferry routes from Santorini to Piraeus.
The earliest ferry departs Santorini at 4:25 am. Gets you to Piraeus at 4:30 PM. There is a 6:45AM that gets you in at 3PM and another that departs 9:20 and arrives 3PM. You are spending most of a day on the ferry and still have a 3 to 4 hour drive to Nafplio.

That is not going to be a very pleasant day.

I would strongly suggest you pull out your wallet and fly back to Athens and rent your car at the airport. You can probably be in Nafplio by around noon.
Your day trip on Olympia will take you 5 hours to drive each way which gives you very little time to actually see the site. Drop that plan and instead visit Ancient Nemia close to Nafplio, It has sister Games to Olympia and its stadium is still there. Its directly on your route from Athens to Nafplio.

If you really want to see Delphi its not too far from Nafplio. Perhaps use the day saved not driving to Olympia can be used for a night in Delphi.
Honestly you can do Athens highlights in 3 days perhaps 4. Look for the best use of those couple of bonus days. I think you will find a short day trip to Mani would be a much better use for those extra days instead of Athens.

Just like stanbr I also suggest taking a Santorini→Athens flight instead of a ferry (even though the ferry travel time is not as long as stanbr indicates). There are at least 6 or 7 flights to Athens in the morning

Regarding the price it will not cost you much more than a fast Seajets ferry (around 20€ to 35€ more per passenger, the price for a good meal) the flight takes 45 minutes and will allow you to be at the airport, pick up the rental car and take the road to Nafplio.

The same remark as Stanbr about the daytrip to Olympia from Nafplio, it's too far.

Stay 4 nights in Nafplio and go to Mani then Olympia.

stanbr is also right about the number of nights in Athens. In order to have more time in the Peloponese, and even if you could stay 10 full days in Athens without having seen everything, stay 3 full days in Athens and use these days saved for the Peloponese.

That would look something like this:

Day 1: Dubrovnik → Crete

7 nights in Crete

Day 8: Ferry Crete → Santorini

3 night in Santorini

Day 11: Flight Santorini → ATH + 2 hours driving Athens → Nafplio

4 nights in Nafplio

Day 15: Driving Nafplio → Mani region

2 nights: Mani region

Day 17: 2 to 3 hours drive to Mani region →Olympia or Ancient Messene

1 night in Olympia/Ancient Messene

Day 18: 3 to 4 hours Drive Olympia/Ancient Messene →Athens

3 Full Days in Athens

Day 22 Return flight

I mentioned the site of Ancient Messene because it could completely replace the overly touristy Olympia while saving you hours of driving and allowing you to visit a little more of the Mani region. You can also stop to visit the site of Ancient Messene when driving from Nafplio to Mani region.

https://greeking.me/blog/greek-mainland/ancient-messene

https://www.discovergreece.com/experiences/unearthing-ancient-messene-southwestern-peloponnese

From Athens you can have an organized day trip to Delphi.

Thank you stanbr and JoLui for your excellent suggestions.

I will stay an extra day in Chania and take the early bus to Heraklion as you suggested for Knossos Palace before departing the following day on the early morning ferry to Santorini. And will fly out from Santorini to Athens to get to Athens early in order to pickup the car at the airport and drive to Napflio.

Google Maps indicates the drive from Napflio to Olympia one way is 3 hours. Does it actually take 5 hours to drive each way? What am I missing?

I was not planning to drive to Delphi from Peloponnese. Instead, was planning on doing a bus tour from Athens as a day trip.

I will check on Ancient Messene and Ancient Nemea. Thank you for the blog links on Messene. Since Nemea is on the way between Athens and Napflio, it is easier to access and I will definitely consider that. I am an Olympics Games buff and haven't missed watching the games since I was a kid and it's given me so much joy to watch the athletes around the world compete every 4 years. I really do want to see the birthplace of such a wonderful concept and tournament and visit the Archeological Museum. It means more to me than your average visitor to Greece. If it requires staying overnight at Olympia, I am willing to consider that and then drive back to Athens to drop off the car.

I was hoping Mani peninsula can be done as a day trip from Napflio. If that is not the case, I might have to drop it this time and visit another time. I know from past experience that changing lodging often tires me out. I am sort of a slower travel type than the average American tourist.

Pam

Google Maps indicates the drive from Napflio to Olympia one way is 3
hours.

Yes it takes about 3 hours without stops or breaks. I am also a sort of slow traveler, but very slow =)) , it takes me 4 or 5 days since I don't just go from one tourist site to another and the Peloponnese is full of places to stop.

So I suppose that the notion of "slow" varies depending on the traveler

But you can go directly to Olympia from Nafplio and then plan a route via Mani to gradually return to Athens.

Mani is a splendid region which cannot be visited in a few hours, even without being a slow traveler you cannot stay there for less than 2 full days.

Since you are particularly interested in the Olympic games you can also go to the Archaeological site of Ancient Elis which is actually the true place of the origin of the Olympic games. It's 60 kilometers north of Olympia and it's free.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/kPAYPjUAR9F6P3w9A

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Elis

I'm so smart, I wait until stanbr & JoLui do all the "heavy lilfting" and then I just fill in details on their excellent outlines! (BTW, is everyone else as annoyed as me that when one clilcks "Reply" all previous answers disappear, so one must open a 2nd screen?) Here are some fill-in thoughts(many r also provided by those 2, so I'll save them keyboarding):

HERAKLION -- the Stanbr pair & I have each enjoyed staying Hotel KRONOS, right on seafront, Great to walk along to Huge Fortezza before dinner;; Ippokampus has great Mezedes (Crete supposedly invented this treat - just get multiple meze no mains).

SANTORINI -- Stay in FIROSTEFANI... right on cliff view, but uncrowded, easy 15-min rimside path walk to FIRA. For best experience OIA, get there by 8:30 if poss - 2 hrs to stroll, take pix, enjoy, before tourbus & cruise crowds invade. Avoid sunset mobs, have dinner in Firostephani (Remvi Cafe or Aktaion) or FIRA (many view choice; I like STANI rooftop).

CAR RENTAL - reliable service good rates from Athens-Car Rental; they bring car to you @ airport. Always prudent to walk around car, note any slight "dings" & photo with yr phone. Airport to Central ATH: flat-rate car service about €43; if yr hotel is not far from Syntagma Square, u can take x95 express bus, takes same highway, €6. I often use this when traveling solo.

NAFPLIO - Stanbr pair & I each loved staying Hotel AGAMEMMON if avaialble - only Old Town hotel right ON seafront, yet not Luxe pricing; good back-up choice Omorfo Poli. Of course use superb website http://www.visitnafplio.com/ - click every link! Dont miss sealevel walk around peninsula point (ignore "closed" sign) & drive up back of Palamidi for stunning aerial views. Since u are a true ruins-buff, don't miss TIRYNs right outside of town ... and have your last Greece swim at tiny cove by ASINE (outside of Tolo).

MESSENE & ONWARD - (I concur to not try Mani, & have more time elsewhere) Yes you could get lost for a whole day at ANCIENT MESSENE, it's huuge; but main thing is the breathtaking Wall; read up beforehand on something in-depth llike BLUE GUIDE. If you find u are running out of daylight, u can have delightful eve/overnight in Pylos (the French designed its charming square), or my fave once-unknown beach, little Gialova 10 mi North, Hotel Zoe (they call themselves "Resort" now, but it's same family just pricier).

OLYMPIA - If driving W near coast, as Classics buff, quick stop NESTORS PALACE? -- especially since this amazing 2015 discovery: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/golden-warrior-greek-tomb-exposes-roots-western-civilization-180961441/ If u stay in Olympia night before site ... it's not really a town just a looong street of hotels & mediocre cafes. October tour crowds wont be huge, but my hotel's tip istill good: Tours go first to ruins, so if you dp Museum at 9, you'll have it to yourself; it's thrilling. At 10:15 or so, tours pour in & you can leave for ruins; huge area so never crowded. Confusing, advance prep helps... for years, NO downloadable audio guides but now several online. If u get one, for best results run it beforehand , for any glitches.

u can have delightful eve/overnight in Pylos (the French designed its
charming square)

Congratulations to janet for noticing this detail, even the French passing through Pylos ignore it!

This probably won't help Pam, but just to say that it was the Lieutenant Colonel Audoy, ​​French officer commander of the engineer troops, who was responsible for the reconstruction of Pylos after the independence war (among other works in the region)

The central square was designed identically to those of the villages in the south west of France (villages called Bastides).
like this one:

https://passion-aquitaine.ouest-france.fr/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/bastide-monpazier-1024x540.jpg.webp

But I admit that its Greek version in Pylos is a little confusing.... :))

Also note that the former French barracks are now the Archaeological Museum of Pylos.

Mr. Audoy, ​​who later became a general, is buried in the municipal cemetery... just near where I live.

Thank you so much JoLui and Janet for excellent additional information and hotel, dining, car rental and visit ordering information. You have saved me a ton of time and research! I am going to file them all and have fun planning my trip.

Yes, I do want to do justice to Mani peninsula and take more time than 2 full days so that I can explore the region properly and visit some of the mountain towns. Unfortunately if I do that this on trip, I will have to shortchange something else. So I am just going to skip it this time and do that on my next visit to Greece. I do intend to return as I love ancient history and there are so many other islands that I want to visit as well. I like mixing ruins and hiking/nature/islands during each vacation so that I do not get bored with the same type of things over and over.

And Janet, yes, that reply idiosyncrasy annoys me as well. Hope it's fixed so we can actually view the entire thread while replying without having to use two tabs.

If you like ruins and go to the Peloponnese I have something for you:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1kFRC74X_9PHcQ_3FNY62F_tURD34mLs&usp=sharing

JoLui that is FABULOUS ... have bookmarked to provide to lucky beginners ... If I win the lottery I shall have handsome Greeks carry me everywhere on that map, in a sedan chair.

JoLui, thank you for that wonderful ruins map. It will be of great resource for me this fall and subsequent visits to Greece!

Pam,

Don't forget that Greece is not just a series of ruins. There are also people who live, work, eat, play, love. When you have enough time, don't hesitate to get off the beaten track and take a few detours between two ruins.

I've added a few places (restaurants) on the map in case you're in the area.
The menus (when there are any) do not always have an English version, very useful for learning a few words of Greek :))

JoLui, thank you very much. Engaging with local culture is something I do enjoy when going from one place to another. I find I do learn a few words of local language just by exposure when I am visiting a non-English speaking country. I do try to learn a few useful phrases before I visit.

However, the fact that Greek alphabet is different -- how difficult does it make to navigate traffic signs, follow directions etc when driving or visiting places, especially for a first time visitor to Greece, particularly Peloponnese where I will indeed be driving?

Merci!

Pam, you're not driving in Athens, and on the big road to Nafplio, they have dual signage.... First comes a BIG sign in Greek saying name of town or an exit.... then a few hundred yards on, there's a smaller sign, in English. And (very important), they don't constantly repeat signs as iis done in USA (since Americans are so distracted)--- at 1 mile before extit, 1/2 mile, 1/4 mile, No; in Greece they expect you to Pay Attention: you get ONE sign, and be ready to yank the wheel. Just stay alert.

as regards learning a few words of Greek, to interact with peoole I've looked at phrase lists in the popular guides , but most of them get too complicated, AND they don't do a good job on how to say the words right. The key is is what syllables you stress... In Italy, the syllables are easy to guess,... but Greeks do it differently. That's why I really like Rick Steves lilst - I think he calls it "Survival guide phrases" . His llists shows words in syllables, showing exactly what part to stress. Find it in his guidebook, photocopy, carry it in your pocket.

In addition, look up some words that aren't just asking questions, but paying compliments... I call this a "praise list." Often what you want to express is your appreciation for tasty food, a good view, a kindly act.... while phrase books are too often about complaining. Some of my faves are Omorfo (Beautiful) Majiki ("Magical" -- all purpose) Nostimo (delicious)... you'll find your own.

As Janet said, distances are in kilometers, so if you see a sign for an exit in 2 km it will be in just over 1 mile.

On all major roads, most road signs are written in both versions, Greek and Latin. Some memories from math or science lessons can be useful for reading Greek.

As for basic words in everyday life, I often recommend this video from Easy Greek Channel, made by Greeks and easy to remember:

https://youtu.be/FYtqqfJdeIs

I'm not sure if anyone has suggested some type of navigation system to help you drive.

I use google maps and for the most part works out well with a few "hiccups" here and there. It can be a life safer in not getting lost.

Paper maps are basically useless.

To help determine kilometers to distance . . . 1 mile is about 6/10 of a kilometer so if you see 10 kilometers just multiply 6x10 to get 6 miles or so.

If you want help with how to pronounce Greek words or phrases use Google Translate. Determine your language with the language you want to interpret and you'll get spelling and also how to pronounce the word(s)

https://translate.google.com/?sl=auto&tl=en&op=translate

I've been to the Peloponnese the last 3 years as the islands are getting over crowded, expensive and not as "Greek" as they use to be unless you go to some of the more remote islands or ones not hyped constantly.

It may help that I go off season mostly October but went this past April and it was just as nice without crowds and even got to see Greece's flora erupting in beautiful colors and feel than fall but nothing wrong with October either!

The Peloponnese is over looked by many tourists especially first time Greece travelers.

It's spectacular and filled with history going back thousands of years.

If interested you can read my Peloponnese trip report from another forum with photos.

It may help with your trip or a future trip.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g189483-i1277-k14200587-Peloponnese_Trip_Report_Sept_25_Oct_12-Peloponnese.html

Thank you for all the additional tips, Janet, JoLui and TommyK. Yup, I am comfortable using metric system, Google Maps and navigation, Google translate etc as I have visited other countries. My question about traffic signs in Greece was more about seeing a sign when driving and trying to understand it on the fly without stopping and whipping out the phone for google translate. Good to know major road signs are in Latin alphabet too. I do know many Greek symbols from Math and Science classes, but my brain has not, so far, been successful in translating the symbols to words properly. For example, when I see theta, I know the word begins with T. But rho symbol makes me think of P rather than R. Will need some practice. I suspect I will have a better handle on that by the time I return from Greece, because of 3+ week exposure :)

TommyK, thanks for sharing your trip report. I will read it and may reach out to you if I have more questions.

Thanks for all the language tips. Will spend some time going over those before my trip.

Does KTEL bus station in Heraklion offers luggage storage? I see from the KTEL website that they do have luggage storage in Chania, but that page doesn't mention if they have one in Heraklion. Has anyone got recommendations for other luggage storage companies near the bus station?

Thanks.

While we have not stored our luggage at Heraklion a quick review on Google shows at least 2 luggage storage places at bus stations. Stasher and Radical Storage.

Thank you stanbr. I also emailed KTEL Heraklion ([email protected]) and found they do have luggage storage facility at or near Heraklion bus station. The facility operates from 06:00 to 20:00 and the cost is 3 euros for all day.

Generally, how far in advance does one make ferry reservations for island hopping? Specifically, Crete to Santorini. My dates are locked for early October, so does it make sense to reserve the ferry from Heraklion to Athinios now or wait? I checked the flights too, and they all seem to involve a connection in Athens. I am guessing any weather related delays and cancellations of ferries also affect the flights? What is the forum's general recommendation?

Thank you.

October is not high season, you don't need to book in advance, especially as there could be a change of schedule between now and then, especially if you are planning to take a Seajets ferry who are specialists in last minute schedule changes.

Usually outside the high season you can book a few days in advance, once in Crete.

Except for the first ferry on an island hopping trip (generally in May, June or September October) I have never booked more than 3 days in advance. I tend to watch the weather forecasts more than the ferry schedules.

With a few exceptions in high season there are no direct flights between the islands. I don't see the point in taking a Crete → Santorini flight via Athens when the ferry journey takes less than 2 hours.

Santorini airport is an international airport like that of many European cities, it had 2.75 million passengers last year, mainly with Boeing 737 or Airbus A320 planes. Nothing comparable with small airports with short runways like those of Milos or Naxos which can only accommodate small ATR turboprops.

Thanks for your advise, JoLui. Generally what sort of weather affects the ferries? Meltemi wind or something else? Do weather related cancellations and delays common in the first week of October?

Yes, it is mainly the force of the wind that causes navigation bans. The Meltemi is a wind that blows mainly in summer, I am not qualified enough in meteorology to say if in October it is also the Meltemi which causes these sailing bans.
Generally a wind of 8 Bf or more is problematic especially for Catamaran type ferries.

Here is what it looks like with a 9Bf wind and a traditional ferry, Needless to say, Seajets catamarans do not sail in these conditions:

https://youtu.be/FkDEY-ke1WE?t=179

Anyway, there is no way to predict weather conditions more than 3 days in advance.

My first experience of a canceled ferry dates back to the 90s, in October in Sifnos. I had to return to Athens and I made the mistake of planning a return flight the same day. Morality, I slept on the ground at the airport while waiting for an available flight... :))

The last major sailing ban I experienced was in Amorgos in mid-September 2019. 3 days in a row without ferries.

But don't get me wrong, I don't mean to be alarmist. On the contrary, in the end it's curiously what makes for good memories and interesting experiences.

JoLui is wonderful about "rollilng with the punches" ... and yes, sometimes unexpected plan changes lead to new adventures. However, when it comes to missing a homebound flight, hers is to France, not a destination half a world away and a budget-breaker if you must book a new ticket. So... just be a bit careful in the Fall, about ferries arriving the day before a transcontinental nonstop.

Of course, Janet is right, it was only a flight to France, but regarding budget breaker, I was completely broke, low-cost flights didn't exist in the 90s, and I asked a friend to lend me some money.
I had to take the cheaper flight to.... Amsterdam to get home (!)

But of course, even if you like to being adventurous, I don't recommend taking a ferry on the same day as a return flight. Personally I take a 2 or 3 days margin .. you can guess why. :-)

Thank you JoLui and Janet for your advice. Fortunately, my ferry ride will not be immediately before a transcontinental flight. I am taking the ferry from Heraklion to Santorini and 4 days later a flight from Santorini to Athens so I can continue my visit to Peloponnese and then Athens before my transcontinental flight. Yet to book the ferry or the Athens flight.