Which city to spend a month in learning German

Check out one of the university cities, like Marburg. Really beautiful town.
Many of the towns in Hessen will offer you German with less of an accent then what you get in Bavaria. English is too widely spoken in Frankfurt and the surrounding towns like Mainz or Wiesbaden.
Tübingen would be a good choice too.

The third time I visited my relatives in Baden-Württemberg, I was beginning to understand a lot of German, but I couldn't understand then when they talked to each other. I asked my cousin if they were speaking High (standard or written) German. He said, "No, we are speaking our dialect." Then I asked him if they often spoke High German. He laughed and said, "Only when you're here".

I've been in many parts of Germany, and everywhere I go, they always understand my High German, but I can't usually understand their conversations.

From what I understand from the conversation with my cousin and others I have had with native Germans, every area has their own dialect, and they speak it amongst themselves. They learn High German in school, and it's used in official documents and in newspapers and on television, but in town, it's the dialect. Also, from what I learned from a professor in a German phonetics course I took, the dialect around Sachsen-Anhalt and eastern Niedersachsen is maybe the closest to High German. So, I think, Magdeburg or Göttingen might be good places to go.

If you go to large cities, you will find that a lot of people will speak English and you might have a hard time getting them to let you practice your German. I find that in small towns, the residents are less likely to know English and you can get them to listen to your "schlecht Deutsch".

Perhaps some of the native Germans here can give you a better idea of where the dialect will be least different from High German.

Hi,

Fantastic that you have this goal. My compliments on your efforts pursuing this. Are you learning through the Goethe Institute? If you don't want to speak like someone from Bavaria, ie with a Bavarian accent, don't pick a Goethe Institute site in Bavaria because you will imitate and speak like the locals. I've seen this happen, American knowing no German at all, after a summer in Oberbayern, comes back speaking like that after the inmersion. . You have been told correctly and accurately about picking up the Bavarian accent. I personally would suggest places in north Germany , the Goethe Institut has a sites up north or the MIddle Rhine, fewer than in the south. The more you "hang" , ie associate in the north the more you'll develop that accent, tone, speed, inflection, etc. It used to be that to pick up the "best" German, the place to go was Hannover for the pronunciation and accent. Hannover was known for that.

About resorting to English once "they" know you're from the USA....not always so. Hardly ever in my experience, anyway, ever since my first time there in 1971. Sometimes I wish they had but thought if they did do that at the time, that won't do me any good linguistically. Übung macht den Meister ( ie, equivalent to our 'Practice makes perfect'). You just keep pounding away at it. pound away at the verbs, cases, endings, etc. To ensure practically that the locals won't address you in English after recognising you as a foreigner before you even a had chance to demonstrate your German, spend your time in eastern Germany. You face a much greater chance of the locals jumping in with English in western Germany.

The "well-preserved" cities you name are nice ones.

As a beginner, in a month's time, you are not going to be understanding the sort of fluent German that you will hear between native speakers on the street, no matter where you are. Dialect issues do matter - but even in High-German haven Hanover, you will be out of your league. And just like English speakers, Germans use a lot of "speech reductions" when speaking fluently - shortcuts similar to "m-gonna" for "I'm going to" in English - which will sound very different from classroom "High German."

I am more of the mind that you need the right situation than the right geographic location. Nearly all educated NATIVE-born Germans in any town or city CAN speak High-German perfectly well. You just need to find a venue where one or more of them will speak it with you for extended periods at a "reduced" level of complexity and at a slower pace - someone who can gently stretch your language skills, not DROWN them with overwhelming input. Did you read Lee's Baden-Wuerttemberg cousin's comment about speaking High-German around him? THAT is the right kind of situation! You don't have a cousin but with some effort you can probably find something...

• a home-stay with a family or a couple that is willing to share meals and/or conversation time?
• arrange to meet publicly with an English learner to exchange an hour of English for an hour of German?

The administrators of your school may have some resources. Tourist office folks are often well connected and good at knowing where to find stuff - they may just know a lonely widow who rents a room to tourists, someone who might have extra time for chatting with you.

Supposedly, the natural dialect that most resembles Hochdeutsch is found around Hannover. With so many better choices, though, I really wouldn't want to spend an entire month there.

But Berlin would be great for weekend day trips, I think. Maybe less so. There are a number of great daytrips possible, but realize that Berlin is sort of an island in a rather thinly populated region of the country. You would have more options in the west and south of the country.

In Dresden, only the small area around the Neumarkt is reconstructed. Most of the remainder of the city dates from the post-war communist period. Great daytrip options, however.

I wouldn't let the presence of students discourage you. Yes, Heidelberg, Göttingen, Tübingen and Marburg are all university towns, but the schools don't dominate the towns the way a university would in a smaller US town. Any of them would be great places to base yourself in and of themselves and offer plenty of daytrips. If you want to avoid heavy dialects, though, you may get a little more Swabian around Tübingen. One of the humorous regional mottos for Baden-Württemberg, particularly the Swabian portion, is "Wir können alles, außer Hochdeutsch". "We can do everything, except (speak) High German ."

I actually hear quite of bit of Hochdeutsch spoken in Munich. But as soon as you leave the city, though, yes, it's all the Bavarian dialect. Even if you know Hochdeutsch, Bavarian can be very difficult to understand.

And speaking of difficult to understand, if you base yourself in Hamburg or Lüneburg, you may have the opportunity to hear some Plattdeutsch. It's a dying dialect, however, and you would probably need to search it out if you wanted to hear it.

Thank you all for these great suggestions. I'm going to look more closely at the university towns. Tubingen and Marburg are interesting, will need to see what language schools are there. I know Goethe Institut has schools in Goettingen and Heidelberg, as well as in another university town, Freiburg, which no one mentioned but I've heard is very nice also. Freiburg might be inconveniently located from the perspective of day trips away, though.

The concept of finding a language "partner", either as a landlord or as a coffee-friend, is also one that I am going to try to pursue.

Thanks again for this helpful advice.

Karen: If you love Vienna, why not take a course there? I took a 4-week intensive German course (5 days per week, 4 hours per day) at the Goethe Institute on the Ringstrasse in Vienna in 1992, during the first month of a one-year sabbatical. Not knowing any German prior to the course, my goal was to acquire "survival language skills" (basic grammar, sentence structure, numbers, time, calendar terms, food terms, transportation terms, etc.). Frankly, what else can you expect to learn in 4 weeks of morning classes? Fluency can take years. If you can swing it, perhaps you can visit Germany after your course? If your goal is similar to mine, I wouldn't worry too much about 'dialect differences', since Viennese German is yet another variation of the language and yet, over the years, my very elementary 'schlect Deutsch' has been understandable to both Germans (e.g., bus drivers on a recent Study Tour in northern Germany) and Austrians. In any event, it is immensely rewarding to learn another language, and then to complete a task in the 'real world', such as ordering a new monthly transportation pass in German and being understood by the sales agent - what a triumph!

There is a difference between an accent and a dialect. The best way I can describe it is to point to the difference between a southern accent and Chaucer English. Accents are primarily differentiated from the mainline language by differences in pronunciation and inflection, although there can be some small differences in vocabulary, such as a poke instead of a bag. I lived in Tennessee for two years, and at first I couldn't understand anyone, but I got used to the accent and could understand them. i don't think you can get used to a dialect.

In the case of German, in Bavaria, there is Bayerisch, which is a dialect. But when Bavarian speak Hochdeutsch, they have a distinctive accent. The first thing I noticed is that they pronounce -ch more like an -sch sound, thus Kirche (church) sounds like Kirsch (cherry). Someone mentioned Berlin, but the Berliners have a strong accent. There, the guttural -ch, which is formed in the back of the mouth is pronounced farther forward, like a -k, as in ik bin.

The best language learning experience I every had was at a Privatzimmer in the northern Schwarzwald. My hostess, a woman in her 50's (I think) said she had learned English in school, but never used it, and couldn't remember anything. Every morning she would bring me my breakfast in the breakfast room and stay around as I ate, and we would talk. She had raised children and had grandchildren, so she knew how to talk to someone with limited language ability. She spoke slowly and didn't use big words, and I could understand everything.

Karen, when you get ready to a select from among what I imagine will be several attractive options, you might want to consider the restaurant situation in the various cities. I would find a month a rather long time in a city with no or limited decent ethnic restaurants. I'm big on variety, and I'm accustomed to being able to find Chinese, Indian, Mexican, etc., at will. Perhaps this will not be an issue in the places you are considering (or you may not care about such things), but I was very, very happy to see all the interesting options in Berlin after having visited smaller cities like Erfurt (which did have a small/casual Jordanian place), Quedlinburg, Gorlitz, Dresden and Schwerin. Fast-food gyro spots just don't cut it for me.

It might be worth giving some thought to the weather, too. My experience in northern Germany is very limited, but I believe it can be persistently chilly and rainy there even in mid-summer.

Everywhere you go in Germany you will get not only a distinct accent, but also a distinct dialect and slang. Words that mean one thing in Berlin, mean something totally different in Cologne or Frankfurt.

Most people do not hear the difference in the accent or dialect unless they speak German fluently. That said, most Germans cannot tell where you are from either. They no more hear the difference between British English and American English, then most of your would hear the difference in the various German speaking countries. Some people can of course, but often they haven't a clue.

Even in some cities, a neighborhood will have its own dialect. Even a city like Frankfurt has 2 distinct neighborhood dialects. Lots of cities will utilize their dialect for local advertising. So whether they are using Kolsch, Frankforderisch, Swabisch, or Bayerisch, you are not going to know what the ad says.

If you are in a university town like Marburg, the students will be from all over Germany, so you will get a good chance to hear their German.

What a great resource this listserve is! Thank you.

I should have mentioned my level of fluency: In the European system, I think I'd be A1 or possibly A2. I've taken a year of once a week classes, and also done the Pimsleur tapes almost through the end of Pimsleur III.

Hi,

If Göttingen is one of the places you can choose, then my suggestion is to take it. I went there once, spent a couple of nights there at the hostel, a good visit in 1987. First of all, Göttingen is a famous Uni town. You will be in an environment where the locals you encounter in daily life will be speaking Hochdeutsch. You pick up the ebb and flow of the language, the intonation, speech patterns, etc. If you have already ruled out somewhere in the south, ie south of Frankfurt, I would heartily suggest Göttingen.

Karen: Sorry, I assumed you were a beginner. Heck, I'd still consider Vienna. :-)

Robert, that's OK. I'd consider Vienna, but I've decided to stick with the Goethe Institut school, as that's a known product, and Goethe Inst.'s Vienna program is summer only.

Goethe has schools in Berlin, Bonn, Bremen, Dresden, Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Freiburg, Göttingen, Hamburg, Mannheim, and Munich. (Also Schwabisch Hall--just too small-- and Heidelberg, also summer only.) As previously discussed, I knocked out Frankfurt, Berlin and Munich. I'm knocking out Dusseldorf and Mannheim too, also Bremen because the school is not well-located.

I was leaning toward Freiburg, because it sounds like such a lovely city.

Then I took a look at the RailEurope interactive map showing where you can get to within X hours of a given place. That gives the edge to Göttingen and -- not previously mentioned -- Bonn, both of which seem to be situated on fast rail lines.

Göttingen ist not only a pleasant and famous university town, it's also a good choice because it's a great base for day trips. To the northeast are the wonderful towns of the Harz mountains, to the west the towns of the Weser Renaissance, to the east are Leipzig, Halle and many places related to the Protestant Reformation, to the south is Thuringia with Erfurt and Weimar, and to the southwest several nice Hessian towns.
There really is so much to see... you could do a day trip every day! You should see at least Goslar, Wernigerode, Quedlinburg, Hann. Münden, Kassel Wilhelmshöhe, Wartburg castle, Erfurt, Weimar, Leipzig and Hamelin.

If you want a city where locals speak the purest, cleanest, accent-free German you'd have to pick Hannover. However, it's a pretty dull place, although you can day-trip to Kassel Wilhelmshöhe vor the UNESCO listed Herkules Park, to the Harz mountains, to Lüneburg, to Hamburg - and even to Berlin.