Where would YOU go if you had 17 days?

Would you prefer only Germany and Austria, or would you be open to visiting other countries? If so, which countries would be of interest?

Rather than the typical routes, I find the most interesting towns are on the Half-Timbered route that runs through Germany. If you fly into Frankfurt you will find many of these towns close by, as well as the Rhine. Personal favorites are Büdingen, Marburg, Limburg, Idstein, & Seligengstadt.
http://www.deutsche-fachwerkstrasse.de/uk/index.php

If you don't like wine, no one says you have to drink it. Beer, as well as juice, coffee, etc. is widely available anywhere you go. You also don't have to go to spas or casinos. There are plenty of other interesting sites to see. Though Cologne has more to offer than just the cathedral, were you interested in anything else there? Same thing with Aachen. What else piques your interest there? Spending a day on a train to see just one thing in a city is a lot of wasted time when you only have 17 days to sight-see.

There are several lovely towns to base in on the Rhine, Eltville, Bacharach, Boppard, Ober-Wesel, or St. Goar. Best ship ride is south to north, for example Rüdesheim to Boppard. Most popular castles are Burg Rheinfels in St. Goar, Marksburg in Braubach, as well as Rheinstein. Magnificent Eberbach Monastery is worth a visit, easily accessible by bus from Eltville.

If you like ancient churches, Frankfurt Höchst has one of the oldest. St. Justinus was consecrated in 850. The Mainzer Dom dates back to 950 and is rather awe inspiring. Mainz is well worth a visit contrary to Ricks' advice to ignore it. I also think Heidelberg is worth visiting on your way going south. Or add in Würzburg.

Everyone will have varying opinions on this. All are correct and all are subject to personal bias. For my part, I've lived for many years in each, in Stuttgart, Frankfurt, Heidelberg, and Munich. Each location has interesting things to see and explore. My own suggestion for a first time traveler would be to use Munich as a starting point. I would stay there for 5-7 days. It has the advantage of easy access to the Castles in Bavaria, Garmisch-Partenkirchen which is beautiful, Berchtesgaden, Innsbruck, Salzburg, then Rothenburg ob der Tauber for two or three nights . I personally see no great advantage in staying in Frankfurt. I would go on to Bacharach and stay there for several nights. From there you have access to the entire Rhine as well as the Mosel. You will not be able to see everything you have read about in 17 days. I would use this as an introduction to Germany and plan for future trips covering what you regret missing on this trip. You might find some sample itineraries on the BensBauernhof website. For honest and affordable car rental you might look at the Gemut webpage. Remember that we are all different and look at things from different perspectives. Much will depend on how you feel about packing up and moving...is a move every night fine with you? Do you prefer to stay at least three nights before moving on? Do you want to drive or take trains and buses? Do you prefer a structured planned trip or are you more care-free and open to taking things as they come? What ever you finally decide on you will have a great trip. Germany is a wonderful country to visit, friendly people, great food, beautiful scenery, centuries old architecture.

"Well we ARE tourists!"

That's quite right. You will likely be joined by other visitors with an interest in "old churches and cathedrals", "old and interesting architecture" and "beautiful scenery."

Rick promotes the ideas of "backdoor" tourism, of becoming a "temporary European" and of connecting with locals. But a few of the sights and destinations he promotes are SO pumped up (by Rick and others) and heavily touristed, SO given over to the tourist industry, and SO short on Europeans (aside from tourist shop owners and innkeepers and waiters) that the idealistic notion of mingling with regular Germans is almost a joke. Rothenburg and Neuschwanstein (Füssen "castle" which is really a late 19th century residence/palace) are at the top of the list of such places, IMO; even Rick admits Rothenburg's extreme shortcomings in this regard: "Today its barns are hotels, its livestock are tourists, and Rothenburg is well on its way to becoming a medieval theme park."

I don't mind being a tourist, but I don't want to feel like a tourist cow in a line for milking.

Fortunately, there are many places in Germany where you can indulge your interests without feeling this way.

Walled towns you can visit instead of Rothenburg - you'll be there with a few tourists but real people populate these towns and lead lives that are about more than just tourism:

Büdingen (ditto Jo)
Iphofen (photos) - Like Rothenburg, Iphofen is near Würzburg

Castles in lieu of Neuschwanstein: The Rhine and the Mosel River towns have genuine article castles with tours - Marksburg in Braubach among them - and lots of visitors - but it's not only about tourists here. I recommend Boppard as a place to stay - it's more of a magnet for locals and better located than Bacharach if you plan to visit the Mosel River as well (which I recommend if you like beautiful scenery and buildings - checkout Cochem and Winningen. ) And from Boppard you an easily visit Bacharach, St. Goar and the rest of the Rhine.

I also suggest you check the UNESCO list for the architectural sights you seek. Aachen's cathedral is there along with other great sights - the Roman monuments in Trier (Mosel River,) the Residenz in Würzburg, the Speyer Dom, and the old towns of Regensburg and Bamberg, just for starters.

"For instance, is 3 nights in the Rhine area enough?"

That's probably only 2 days plus a few hours maybe on Day 1 if you're coming from FRA airport after a transatlantic flight. So maybe enough for the Middle Rhine Valley. Not enough for Cologne and Aachen and the Mosel River. You would probably want a separate stay for Cologne and Aachen.

It is hard for someone else to know what you should see. I would recommend one thing, look at a couple other tourist guides. I think Michelin Green Guide is the best as it well presents may possibilities. Rick focuses on a few select locations and does them in depth. Nothing wrong with that but I believe he might leave out some of the best: Regensburg and Bamberg are a couple that I much enjoy. Others will swear by Tübingen. Still other folks will have their recommendations. See what fires your imagination in the descriptions and go with that.

Hi everyone, and thanks for all the replies! I had to laugh, in today's paper, there was an article about the Black Forest in the travel section. I guess I am just concerned about missing out on something really great, and was looking for more input. For instance, if I go here then I have missed out on seeing something there. I have marked out places of interest on a map, and I have made a list of things to see/places to go. I can't imagine being able to afford a trip like this again, this might be my only chance. What to keep, what to cut.... ugh....

I do appreciate the replies.... Thank you very much.

To answer Ken from above, I would love to see a whole lot more than just Germany/Austria. Amsterdam, the Swiss alps, and the Czech Republic come to mind. But I know there's not enough time for that.

Since I have seen nothing, everything appeals to me. Even a fake 19th century residence is a treat, since all I normally see in my day-to-day life, is concrete, strip malls, construction, the Ambassador bridge, and expressways.

I will keep on plugging away. Thanks again for any and all replies.

Hi,

Since you didn't rule out only Austria and Germany for the 17 days. I going to assume that could be the itinerary. In that case I would choose six cities (some as day trips) to track cathedrals and churches in Germany, such as Aachen, Cologne, Erfurt, Munich, Dresden, Leipzig, Ulm, Magdeburg, Berlin. For small towns if you tire of just visiting big cities, I would definitely suggest Speyer, Marburg an der Lahn, Naumburg an der Saale, Lüneburg, Lutherstadt Wittenberg, Meissen....just to name some of them.

Thanks Fred! I will check them out.

Afraid that it's just my nature to wonder what's over there.... thus ruining my enjoyment of what's in front of me. For me, this is a lot of money, and I would hate to miss something fabulous. I am trying to avoid chasing all over the place, searching for that elusive 'something' and instead, feeling content with my choices. A couple of big cities and their attractions are fine, but maybe smaller towns would be more manageable, given my time restraints. Some things in southern Bavaria look interesting....

I guess I am just concerned about missing out on something really great, and was looking for more input.

Without a doubt you will miss out on something really great which is why Rick encourages people to travel as if they know they will return. Sometimes just the fact that you are ~there~ is the greatest thing!

The things other people see and enjoy may not do it for you, whereas you all may enjoy things Rick or others don't particularly like. I, possibly, am the only person who did not think the Rhine Valley was spectacular altho I did enjoy the small towns. I am not sure what I was expecting, but I think I expected the valley sides to be steeper and the part I saw was not. My view is doubtless skewed by river valleys and canyons in the West and now I know how to better manage my expectations. I also love old and interesting architecture and it just blows me away that people live in structures that were built before the oldest still usable structure in Idaho which admittedly is not all that old in the scheme of things. Just walking thru old towns and old narrow streets is what charms me.

Whatever you decide to see will be wonderful!

Without a doubt you will miss out on something really great which is why Rick encourages people to travel as if they know they will return. Sometimes just the fact that you are ~there~ is the greatest thing!

Pam Thanks for that, it was sort of what I needed!

Everything that I look at, just looks so great. I guess I really can't go wrong then, eh? I am definitely not one of those travel snobs that you hear about. You know the type...... like, "I will only drink Armenian yak's milk upon the mountain" or "Ever since I bathed in the (fill in the blank) River, a mere shower with indoor plumbing just won't do." I am so not a travel snob! Lol. There are those who will look down their noses at some obviously touristy choice, but I figure that 10 million vacationers can't be wrong!

An earlier reply said not to waste a day on a train trip just to see one thing and then return back. Thanks for that. I can scratch Aachen off the list.... Not interested in wasting any of my very limited (and precious!) time....

If you're looking for a Bavarian town with intact walls that isn't Rothenburg, go to Noerdlingen. I worry that in a decade or so time it might be Rothenburg 2.0, but for now I'd recommend it.

The places you selected are fine. You may want to stay in a place near those, rather than in the selected towns/cities. Easier if you are driving rather than taking the train ( i like the train ). I suggest you look at various guidebooks. I like ones with pictures. I also like looking at maps and then looking at the various town websites- usually a format www.town name.de.

In the old days, I would get brochures from the German National Tourist Office. Several I received listed every town in an area with the worthwhile sites. I was amazed at how many small towns had interesting features.

Take at least two nights at each stop.

@ Judy....Your welcome. I would suggest that if you do decide to visit Cologne, a day trip to Aachen can be done in the morning. Logistically, doing a day to Aachen and returning by 13:00 would not be a wasted day, since it takes less than one hour to go Köln Hbf to Aachen Hbf. What we generally call cathedrals or churches (even more generic), in German a distinction is made between a "Dom" and a "Münster" The ones I listed above are indicated in German as "Dom," such as that in Cologne: der Kölner Dom, der Mainzer Dom, etc. In Berlin you could see all three of them, all within walking distance of each other: der Berliner Dom, der Französischer Dom (French), and der Deutscher Dom.

For a "Münster" that is reserved for the church in Ulm (doable as a day trip from Munich)...das Ulmer Münster, or in SW Germany the city of Freiburg...das Freiburger Münster.

On which is better going from west to east or vice versa, that depends on how your itinerary is arranged and how extensive in Germany you want to go to see the different churches/cathedrals, etc as to their uniqueness, size, height, and so on. Yes, it can be done in 17 days just focusing on Germany, depends on how you plan it and what your comfort level is. For uniqueness I most definitely recommend including Naumburg an der Saale, doable as a day trip from Erfurt, Leipzig, or even Berlin, on the list to visit.

Judy,
I would look at Dresden,it has the Frauenkirche which was rebuilt and completed in 2005,it was demolished in Feburary 1945 by bombing,Dresden also has a world class museum complex including the Green Vault which contains artifacts of Agustus the Strong,the King of Saxony.Dresden is also where porcelain originated in Europe and there is a museum with displays of the Chinese influence of porcelain manufacture.There is the Semper Opera House.I would definitely read up on this city,lots more than I listed.
Mike

We spent 2 weeks in Germany a few years ago. Landed in Frankfurt and rented a car. Drove to Bacharach and used that as a home base for 3 days to explore the Rhine area by boat. Drove Romantic Road to Rothenburg OBT (2 nights). Stopped at a lot of other small villages along the "road" on the way to Munich. We don't like large cities but it was worth 2 nights. Drove to Salzburg for 3 nights...a great place!!!..Went to Berchtesgaden for 2 nights and did the Eagles nest tour, etc. lovely area and full of history for a WWII buff like me.

Drove to Hallstat for 3 days..fantastic place!! Then on the way to Vienna we stopped at Mauthausen concentration camp ( a must see). Stayed 3 days in Vienna before flying home.

If you have 3 weeks perhaps you can do the Black Forest (we are going there next year). There are many alpine German villages we stopped at along our travels..simply wonderful. I love Bavaria and Austria!!!!! have fun

Hi Neighbor.... I have traveled to Germany quite a few times and I do love it... a few questions... are you going to rent a car or take the train? I usually drive while I am there, so that makes a difference in what I would suggest. There are such wonderful places to explore... one of my favorite places that is amazingly beautiful is the Lake of Constance (Bodensee) It is a beautiful lake surrounded by mountain. I tend to prefer smaller towns and villages as opposed to a lot of big cities. The drive through part of the Romantic Road and some of those villages are charming, as well as driving through the Black Forest area...(but I would choose other things to do first) Some of the smaller towns that Jo suggested are great. I also love the drive to Salzburg... lots of beautiful scenery and plenty of places to stop for a roadside picnic. I also love seeing the castles (real & fake)! The freedom of a car in these areas is a bonus for me as I do not like to be on a strict schedule, plus if I hear about something wonderful around the next bend I want to be able to go!

Hi,

In planning out the itinerary and "love old churches" you might be interested (if you're going to the Hamburg or Lübeck area) in the town of Lüneburg, quite doable as a day trip from either Hamburg or Lübeck, or as a place to stay, relax for two nights and see the Johanniskirche, the big Protestant church ca 10 mins from the train station. Simply put, it's old and huge. Bei der Johanniskirche is the sign indicating the immediate area of the church grounds.

On "old and interesting architecture"...that too is pretty evident in Lüneburg, you'll notice that right away since Lüneburg survived the war intact, wasn't plastered by the strategic bombing or fought over. British troops aiming at Hamburg moved into Lüneburg.

I am a "front door" tourist who loves Austria and Germany (we have lived in Vienna, Salzburg, and Berlin and traveled extensively through both countries each year) and I would be sure to see Vienna, Salzburg, Berlin, Cologne, and Munich for certain. We don't drink either and while I love spas, we don't gamble or visit casinos either. There is nothing wrong with you wanting to see the sights! Just be a tourist and enjoy yourself. Plenty of people in here criticize our love for first class air and train travel and luxury hotels as if that means you can't enjoy cafes and visiting ordinary sites like others do. Travel your way! As for other places you are likely to enjoy, I recommend Krems, Passau, Regensburg, Kelheim, Nuremberg, Dresden, Wittenberg, Heidelberg, Koblenz, & Briesach. At that point, you might want to pop into Switzerland to see the lovely city of Lucerne. My father in law's family comes from Germany and we never miss a chance to visit their gorgeous country. It doesn't really matter which direction you travel. We have enjoyed taking Viking Cruises and seeing a lot of these places in one trip. You can get your air, all-inclusive stateroom with all meals, and shore excursions at no extra price. This is THE relaxed way to see many of these areas. http://vikingrivercruises.com They are our favorite for river cruising in Europe.
Here are videos of just two of their offerings:
www.vikingrivercruises.com/video/destinations/index.html#video/romantic-danube
www.vikingrivercruises.com/video/destinations/index.html#video/christmas-markets-cruises

You mentioned the Kehlsteinhaus or Eagle's Nest and Zugspitze. For summer I would recommend 3-5 day days in the Bavarian Alps. Explore the Nationalpark Berchtesgaden and stay arouind Schönau am Königssee. Maybe a side trip to Saltzberg, Austria. Spend some time in Garmisch-Partenkirchen and the Zugspitze. Maybe visit Mittenwald in Germany and Erwald in Austria. This is more scenic and hiking and beer drinking area...