What Do I Change? 7-Night Itinerary in Munich and Southern Bavaria

I would base in Mittenwald. I've stayed in Oberammergau and it's OK, worth a visit, but Mittenwald is more scenic, I think. I'm a little biased against Garmish-Parkirchten as a base because there's a military family resort there and loud American children is usually something I'm trying to avoid while traveling! I get enough of that on base.

As for moving vs staying if you're committed to roughly this itinerary I don't see the point in moving. Fussen is not that far from Mittenwald.

If anything I think your trip is a little on the slow side (opposite of what most people do) - did you have no interest in the Berchdesgaden area? I know it's definately on the tourist path, but the Eagles Nest has great views, Salzburg is great, and the Koeningsee may be the most gorgeous spot in Germany, period.

But if you want more time to hike/relax than your current schedule is fine as is. Personally I'd probably squeeze some stuff together to make room for other stuff.

Good choice on Regensburg - it's superb.

"What did we not ask you that we should have, or what are we missing that we'd really like?"

The trip journals below might be good supplemental input to all your guidebook research:
http://www.bensbauernhof.com/tripreports.html

"Day 7... we plan on a leisurely drive back to Munich with stops..."

It is not necessary to drive back into Munich again or to sleep there in order to catch a train to Paris on Day 8. On Day 7 you have included the Wieskirche and Landsberg... so from Landsberg it would be logical to drive into smaller Augsburg, a stop on the Munich - Paris train route, to drop the car and spend the night. Your long train trip to Paris will be half an hour shorter from Augsburg, so you can linger half an hour longer over breakfast - and the ticket may even be a little cheaper. (BTW, Congrats on your near-perfect spelling of all those difficult German place names, um-lauts and all - only one you missed was Wieskirche.)

Bad Tölz - expect heavy traffic into Bad Tölz because of a slow traffic light at the junction of the two "B" roads. The road construction towards the centre, causing routing around by the station, may well be gone by the time of your trip but probably present for anybody traveling soon. I found that parking right by the river bridge was an excellent location, and pretty cheap. I love Bad Tölz. Good exercise, too.

By the way, is it two cats hooman or two cat shooman?

Parking in Tegernsee isn't all that easy, and I wasn't particularly taken by the place.

Using a car in that general area is helpful to link places together, don't use it as a portable luggage locker though.

Have you considered trip up Wendelstein? Loved it. As young 30ishes you may want to ride up and walk down. I'm double that age and my knees won't hear of it. The private road connecting the cable car station with the cograil station going through the forest (€3 per day on the road) is very scenic but you need to keep your speed down and the downhill bits are tough on the brakes (you may not care, but I drive my own car over and I do care). Great views from the summit.

I also observe the lack of the "Eagles Nest" Kehlsteinhaus, and the Königsee.

If you drive to Salzburg for a day trip, park under the mountain and get your ticket stamped in the Old Town =- much cheaper and more convenient than alternatives.

Unlike many here I am not in love with Mittenwald. Too touristy and cute for me.

What about getting wet in one of the gorges near Garmisch?.

Are you aware of the really good group of fellow travelers who meet every month to talk travel, recent trips and upcoming trips. They are a really good group of folk, and meeting at the Panera isn't a bad use of a Saturday brunch time.

The Sacramento group meets the same day each month and always advertise the meeting on the Travel Group Forum here.

This is the link to the most recent one - I expect the next one will be announced very soon:

Have a click - https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/travel-meetings/sacramento-travel-group-meeting-saturday-august-19-10-00-a-m

I enjoyed hiking through Partnachklamm (Partnach Gorge) at Garmisch-Partenkirchen; an English overview is here. Parking is at the Olympic stadium used for the 1936 winter games, and the entrance to the gorge is about a 30-minute walk from there. It's good on a rainy day, too; the rain adds little waterfalls all over the gorge. Take the path at the level of the river going in (can be crowded) and then ascend to the higher path to hike back out (less crowded), crossing over a handful of wooden bridges that cross the gorge.

Sarah - 1) Thanks for the input on Mittenwald. It really does look quite charming. Would you say the American base presence is stronger in the Garmisch area? We aren't really interested in visiting the more "cosmopolitan" side of that twin city! 2) Thank you; it's hard to tell how much driving is actually involved, and as Californians we're actually quite used to hour-plus drives--so it sounds like picking one base will work for us. 3) We actually were quite interested in Berchtesgaden, Königsee, and Salzburg, but we'd want to overnight in the area for at least 1-2 nights to really enjoy ourselves. It's definitely on our "next time" list! 4) It sounds like I may have actually accomplished my goal of not trying to do a whirlwind tour with no time to stop and smell the flowers on our way. And we aren't opposed to picking up the pace if we find it's too slow--I have a list of about 15 different sights and things to do that didn't make it to our itinerary, so we can choose from those! 5) Regensburg popped up in one of the RS forum posts and was actually my impetus for checking out so many other guidebooks and forums. We're looking forward to it very much.

Russ - Thanks for another resource (trip reports) and the info on the Augsburg train connection; I honestly didn't even consider picking up our rail journey outside of Munich, but that makes perfect sense. Regarding the place-names, I am a bit of a linguist and try to respect the orthography and phonotactics of every language; Wieskirche missed my filter!

Nigel - 1) Good tips on Bad Tölz, especially traffic and parking--thanks! 2) It's two cats hooman; we are owned by two tyrant felines. 3) In Tegernsee, we were planning on walking the Großes Paraplui. Would it be worth a stop, or should we skip it? 4) We travel with carry-on size backpacks only, so we'd keep those with us while stopping (nothing left in the car, ever!). 5) We are going up Zugspitze and had Eckbauer or Wank on our "possible" list for additional mountain-scaling. Would you substitute Wendelstein for Eckbauer or Wank? I don't think we'd want to do 3 cable-car ride/hikes for this trip. 5) Berchtesgaden is on our "next time" list (see response to Sarah above). 6) Re: Mittenwald, cute is right up our alley, but if you have a suggestion for an alternative village base, we're open to it! 7) Partnachklamm is on our "if we have time and energy" list :). 8) We'll definitely check that out--thanks!.

Dave Thanks for the first-person info on Partnachklamm. How strenuous would you say the higher path is? We like to move while we're on vacation, but we don't like ending up sweaty and out-of-breath.

So happy you're going to Regensburg. While staying in Munich last December we went there on a whim one day and LOVED it!!! You can use a Servus ticket which is 26 euro total for the two of you.

Just a minor addition to the Regensburg excursion: you might want to stop on your way back in Landshut, a town of colorful baroque and Renaissance houses around a splendid gothic cathedral. Please note: unlike the Bayern Ticket for €31/2 the "Servus Ticket" for €26/2 mentioned above does not include local bus transport in Regensburg and Landshut.

Dawn and sla019 thanks for the tips about the rail tickets. Landshut was originally on our list, but with only 1.5 days in Munich (with a 1.5-hour trip to/from Regensburg), we decided to save it for another time.

OP you've definitely done your research! I think your itinerary is fine for your needs. If you find yourselves getting bored you can just start doing more stuff per day without a problem. There is hardly a lack of things to do in that area! I haven't myself been to Garmisch...mostly because that's all I hear the military families talking about and not to sound like a snob but...anyway, in my travels there are certain places where the US military contingent tends to congregate and those aren't usually places that hold a lot of interest for me. Mittenwald is a bit touristy but then again, Oberammagau is a little dull. I stayed there 2 nights last summer and while the scenery and area was lovely I wasn't particularly charmed by the town, although we did a nice hike from our hotel there.

Moving hotels is always a pain in the ass and since everything you're doing in the alps is so close I'd pick just one base. You won't find yourselves driving more than 45 minutes at any time (if that).

One note: You might be changing trains in Stuttgart to catch the TGV to Paris (unless you pick up the TGV in Augsburg - depends on timing and such). If you have a "layover" the main city biergarten in Stuttgart is right next to the train platform down a ramp on the left side of the platform coming from the trains. If you have more than 45 minutes you have time for a small beer and to see the exciting (or obnoxious) Stuttgart 21 rail project construction!

The ascent at the very beginning of the higher path at Partnachklamm is a little steep, but once you get past the ascent (takes 5-10 minutes?), it's easy... and there's a little refreshment house shortly after the ascent ends. I did it as an a overweight, out-of-shape 43-year-old without much trouble, so it's not bad.

Oh, yeah... since you seem to be a compulsive planner like me... here's a recommendation for when you go to Berchtesgaden some day...

Order a copy of David Harper's Your Complete Guide to Berchtesgaden. He's one of the owners of Eagle's Nest Historic Tours, so you get a guide written by a local. It's full of info about the area and contains a number of recommended hikes.

I spent 5 nights in Berchtesgaden (actually stayed in Ramsau bei Berchtesgaden, a nearby small town I highly recommend) and did not run out of things to do. I didn't even go to Salzburg during my time there.

Sarah Thank you! I went through literally hundreds of old forum posts trying to avoid the same mistakes that pop up over and over again. We both get rather motion sick in cars on winding roads, so we tend to drive slowly and stop frequently. I tried to take that into account when looking at driving times. Good tip about Stuttgart; I'll keep that in mind if the opportunity comes up. This will be literally our first rail trip ever, so we're looking forward to a new experience.

Dave Excellent; I'll keep it on my list then and won't be too intimidated. Some guidebooks describe the hike as "challenging." And you've definitely nailed my planning approach. My husband says that planning the trip is half the fun for me, though I hold our plans loosely and like to treat them as possibilities instead of scheduled events. The Berchtesgaden book sounds like it's perfect. Ramsau bei Berchtesgaden is on our "another time" list!

I wouldn't call it challenging, certainly not for fit young 30 somethings.

I find the walk, continuously uphill more or less, not especially protected from the sun, and fairly boring, from the carpark (pay at the machine and put the ticket on the dashboard) up to the entry the worst part and not much fun. Also I philosophically object to paying a whole euro for a visit to a toilet when the going rate is €0.30 to €0.50. They know when they have a captive audience. The only place it is less is a pair of very nasty porta-potties near the entrance at the top of the hill. There are no facilities of any sort actually in the gorge. A word to the wise is sufficient.

The gorge itself is magnificent. I won't give you any spoilers but do keep your eyes open. Wear things that don't mind getting wet. It is crowded. It is wonderful. It is wet. If you are tall be careful. There are safety cables all along the gorge path so no chance of falling in, but the way is narrow and people go both ways. There are several tunnels along the way and they are not lit in any way, many people (me too) turn on their phone torch in the tunnels.

I didn't go all the way through (bad knees) and instead of going up and over to go back my wife and I wanted to spend as much time as possible in the gorge. Seeing the waterfalls and views from the other side was wonderful. I would do it again in a heartbeat.

As I said, the only downer on the day (we drove down from Munich and spent the day) was the slog up the hill to the entrance. We were quite tired coming out of the gorge so we gladly paid the €10 to go back down in the horse wagon.

Nigel Thanks for the additional perspective on the Partnach Gorge and the tips on the bathroom situation--essential information I haven't seen anywhere else yet!

I have seen pictures of the Gorge, but my husband hasn't; I'm trying to keep as many surprises as possible for him on this trip.

Out of your three considered bases south of Munich, Oberammergau is more practical than Mittenwald, even though I prefer the latter. Oberammergau is just fine as a base in the evening, with enough restaurant choices and pleasant scenery. GP is a little too sprawling for my liking but each part has a nice central district. Murnau am Staffelsee is often overlooked as a visit or as a base. It is a lovely little town with a beautiful backdrop, visited by many surrounding locals at the weekend. It also has plenty of extensive, fairly easy hiking - Murnauer Moos and lakeside.

If you like to include long walks on your holiday, which is what I like to do, you may find yourself cutting down on the places you visit. I spent the better part of the day visiting Mittenwald, including Leutasch Gorge immediately to the south (pretty and easy). A full day in Hohenschwangau, including both castles, a long, slow lunch, the museum, a walk up the hill past Marienbruch and a walk around the lake. Schwangau, down below, has a few nice inns and a pleasant park to stroll around. There is a very pretty church in the fields close by, I don't recall where exactly.
A mishmash of thoughts. I don't think I've ever read as many postings on a topic as to the worth of visiting Neuschwanstein. I've visited twice and would do so again if in the area. Some call it fake but it seemed real to me when I was there (I think there were more things open to the public thirty years ago?): some scoff that it is not a fortified castle - it was never meant to be, like most of the famous chateaux in France: I'm sure the person who conceived it did not intend masses of tourists to invade it. Take it for what it is. It is marketed very well, an interesting but overly short visit. Go on, treat your husband. The décor in Schloss Hohenschwangau is right up my alley. I've always wanted to say this publicly: "When I'm in Hohenschwangau, I always make a point of dining at the Hotel Muller." There, I've said it, and may have said it before. It's a private joke but the hotel's goulash soup is excellent, shredded beef used intead of chunks.

Partnach Gorge is worth the time, Schachen House much further up the hill if you are up to it. Hell Valley Gorge is wonderful. If you want something easier, find a river. Fussen has a nice river walk along the Lech, through the garden behind the castle, a nice cluster of houses and onto the small waterfall. If you do stay in Oberammergau, a reasonably easy walk as far as Linderhof, bus back. A nice inn opposite Ettal. If you walk both ways, a full day on it's own. You'll have a pleasant night's sleep. If you do have the time to drive to Pfronten, and if I remember correctly, there is a wonderful photo opportunity as you top a hill approaching from Fussen - a lovely, general shot of the town with St Nikoluas church taking centre stage.

Catching the train from Augsburg, as suggested, will afford you an extra night in your base hotel or apartment (go for an apartment). I'd gladly revisit all the places you mention.

Gundersson Wow--a lot to consider in your post. Thank you!

1) I appreciate the advice regarding a practical home base. Interestingly, Murnau was on my list as a possible home-base village (in fact, I thought I had an apartment recommendation somewhere, but can't find it now). It looks a bit far away from where we want to be--around an hour to a place like Mittenwald, for example--but perhaps we'll be able to make some room for it on our way in from the Alpenstraße via Bad Tölz. I was going back and forth between Oberammergau and Mittenwald, so maybe I'll just look for the most attractive apartment for our needs and make the decision that way.

2) Long walks are a mainstay of our vacations here in the U.S., and I don't imagine we'll change that much with all that's there to wander and see! Leutasch Gorge is a new recommendation, and one I'll add to my map.

3) Neither of us are terribly interested in being hurried through Neuschwanstein in 30 minutes or less. We are familiar with its history and know it's not a fortified castle, but I think we'll both be equally happy to visit the interior of Hohenschwangau instead. The Hotel Müller restaurant and bistro both look lovely--on my list of possibilities now.

4) I'm getting the idea that we shouldn't miss Partnach Gorge. Noted!

5) So glad I checked in here, as Augsburg looks like it's going to be a perfect place to start our rail journey to Paris.