Weimar, Bayreuth, Lucerne-help!

Bayreuth is a pleasant enough small city, just that from the last week in July to the end of August, lodging will be scarce and expensive due to the Bayreuther Festspiel. Bayreuth is all about Wagner for the most part, with his restored home now a museum, and the Festspielhaus on the Green Hill. Easy to get around on the bus system. Train line to Nuremberg passes through a very nice limestone gorge in the Hersbrucker Alb.

Outside Weimar, and accessible via public bus, though it doesn't run super frequently, is the Buchenwald Nazi concentration camp. In addition, it was repurposed after the war and used to incarcerate enemies of the new Communist regime. There's an English-language booklet you can borrow to read about that period.

Erfurt is a very short train ride from Weimar. It has a Martin Luther connection of some sort (sorry for vagueness--I'm not religious) and is a very pretty, lively university town with two historic churches. Its lovely medieval architecture (including a merchants' bridge) survived the war, plus there are some interesting early 20th century buildings. Totally worthy of a day-trip. Rick visited it on one of his recent shows. The video is available on this website.

Beyond Erfurt (probably a bit over an hour by train from Weimar) is Eisenach. More pretty architecture, plus the historically important and evocative Wartburg Castle. You can get to the castle by city bus, but there's some uphill walking still required. A visit to the castle is included on the same video I've linked to above.

You may pass through Eisenach and Erfurt on your way from Frankfurt to Weimar.

In the opposite direction, you could get to Leipzig in about 1-1/2 hours by train. I haven't been there, but it is often a suggested destination.

I'm sure there are some lovely small towns accessible via bus from Weimar, but I don't know what they are.

We spent one night in Bayreuth a few years ago, as a convenient stop on our way to Dresden. We found it a charming place, but admittedly we just walked around the pedestrian center enjoying sites from the outside as we left the next morning. I'm not sure I would find things to occupy me for a longer stay.

Certainly worth a visit in Weimar is the Herzogin Anna Amalia Bibliothek, get the tickets on time as there are a limited number of visitors allowed. Adjacent Park an der Ilm is nice for walking around.

I'm sure there are some lovely small towns accessible via bus from
Weimar, but I don't know what they are.

Yes, typical small Thuringian towns like Rudolstadt, Saalfeld (with the Fairy Grottoes), Gotha or Arnstadt, but also Naumburg with the stunning Gothic cathedral. A bit farther away are Bad Langensalza and Mühlhausen, two hidden gems which can be done together.

Outside Weimar are also three small castles/palaces. The best one, Belvedere castle, is 4km to the south of the town centre, you just have to follow a straight, long alley to get there. A nice walk.

If you want to hike: to the south of Weimar is the Thuringian Forest with the Rennsteig and the Schwarza Valley, and the Saale valley around Jena with the Panorama Trail is pretty nice.

Thuringia Tourism is a pretty good start.

We spent 2 nights in Lucerne; arriving early on Day 1. I think that would be sufficient. We enjoyed walking the old town (the TI offered -- free or reasonably priced, not sure -- walking tours. There's the Lion Monument, the covered bridge, walking the town wall/towers; excellent restaurants. We didn't visit Mt. Pilatus or get out on the Lake. You can probably gets lots of information by going to the Swiss Forum page and plugging "Lucerne" into the search field at the top.

Bayreuth is certainly worth at least a day. There is not only Wagners house (recently restored and exhibitions enlarged) and the Festspielhaus (there is a daily tour at 2pm), there are also the remainings of the Brandenburg-Prussian epoche, the most conspicuous being the baroque residence, the completly restored baroque opera house of Wilhelmine, sister of Frederic II (the "great"), an Unesco World Heritage site, wich will re-open next week (several tours per day), and the Eremitage, a summer palace and park outside of the center but accessible by public transport. If you are interested in pianos, in the Friedrichstrasse there is the famous Steingraeber manufacture, where you can try out their pianos and possibly take a tour or attend a concert (program available under the link above).

Thanks for your help so far! Now that our trip is starting to take clearer shape, any thoughts on including any of these: Speyer, Quedlinburg, Naumberg an der Saale, Worms, Bamberg, Bacharach, Fritzlar? Again-all for the purposes of pleasant meanderings and easy to get to via Weimar, or on the way to Basel via train? And any suggestions of hikes and/or hotels would be appreciated!

Quedlinburg for sure. Drop-dead gorgeous UNESCO town with a castle and cathedral whose treasury is very impressive. Google for the interesting American connection to that treasury. And there's a modern-art gallery as well. The tourist office may offer English-language tours; it definitely rents out an English-language audio quide so you can make your own tour, which is what I did. It was extremely comprehensive and would have taken me just about all day if I hadn't already been to the castle and cathedral. The historic area is quite large and is chock-full of half-timbered buildings.

The reason I didn't mention Quedlinburg earlier, however, is that it's not such a quick trip from Weimar. The fastest rail connection I see takes 2 hr. 28 min., departing at 7:55 AM. Beware the possibility of a quite high fare if you make a last-minute decision to go.

Quedlinberg does sound gorgeous-but is it too far out of the way? If we fly into Frankfurt, then onto Weimar/Erfurt/Eisenach–and then maybe squeeze it in, and then Bayreuth, and onto Basel and Lucerne maybe via Speyer? And I'm also wondering about Coburg, maybe as a day trip from Weimar–any thoughts on that?

Vicky, your questions are starting to cover an awful lot of places. If you use Germany's EXCELLENT public transportation, you can't cover more than one or two places in one day - and luggage is (to me, anyway) a real sightseeing annoyance. Automated luggage lockers don't always work or have vacancies - just like automated train ticket machines at unattended stations.

No, I'm not advocating a car. I'm suggesting that you need a more strategic plan. We don't know the month of the year, and whether two weeks is 12 nights in-country, or more. Why did you mention Bayreuth at all? Depending on your BOS (?) options, consider Berlin as well as Frankfurt. One reason is that Leipzig, a much bigger city, and a place of N's youth, and maybe near his tomb, is on the way to "the former East Germany", which you haven't called out as a specific interest.

Another interpretation of "strategic" - Basel (besides having some superb museums) is right next to Weil am Rhein, where I went to see the Vitra Design Museum, their architecture tour, and Zaha Hadid's first completed project, the Vitra Fire Station. I don't know if you can get to the nice Roman ruin, Augusta Raurica, with public transportation. But it's worth hiring a cab. Likewise, while your DH is working in Weimar (which has plenty for you to do, including Bauhaus monuments), you must go to Erfurt. In season, there is a splendid public (paid admission) garden dating to the DDR days, the EGAPark. Erfurt also has the oldest (... because it was deconsecrated long ago) synagogue structure in Europe, which is now a great little museum. I'm really unhappy that I didn't know one of the three "surviving" Baroque Court Theaters of Europe is in Gotha - I missed it. My point is that you are casting a wide net. Make the net finer and smaller. You can only do so much in two weeks.

Quedlinburg, a very long trip from our hotel in Weimar, was a must for me. Because of:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_of_medieval_art_from_Quedlinburg

Edit: Another thing that's on the way from Berlin to Weimar is the UNESCO WHS Dessau-Worlitz. This is really nice, although we didn't have to worry about our bags when we saw it. And there's the BMW plant! I couldn't care less about cars, but one (or more?) of their buildings was also designed by Zaha Hadid, so we drove around it.

I can't imagine going to this area and not spending two or more days in Dresden. We only glanced at the Liebeskind addition, but it's generally understood that because Germany's history is Europe's history, and Germany's recent history is war, the Bundeswehr Museum in Dresden is of scholarly interest far beyond warcraft.

I suggest you buy Lonely Planet Germany. I won't go there without it.

Well, true. I tend to get super excited about all the wonderful places in the world to see-and I want to see all of them! So right now, I'm leaning towards this: we fly out from Boston end of June, to Frankfurt, train to Weimar to use as a base for scholarship and day trips to Erfurt, Eisenach, Naumberg, and perhaps Coburg. That's at least 4 nights. Probably will skip Bayreuth, and go instead in hops and skips via train to Basel (to visit brother), visiting Speyer and/or Worms. That's possibly 3 nights. Possible day trip to Tribschen in Lucerne from Basel, and sightseeing in Basel with brother. Possibly 3 nights. Then make our way back to Frankfurt during the remaining 2 nights. Quedlinburg sounds beautiful, but it's in the other direction (at least for now!), so I think we'll leave it for another time.

How does that sound? I agree with the pain of schlepping luggage, even when they're carry-ons, so having a base and doing day trips is preferable. I'd love some advice about the worthwhileness of visiting Coburg, and what you all think about Speyer and Worms in terms of sights and hiking.

And if anyone knows about easy hikes I could do in the Weimar area, or an organization that does guided hikes-that would be great. Again, thanks very much for your help!

Hi,

You picked a most important and pleasant place to go to...Weimar, which you'll see is "Deutschlands Dichterstadt" (city of poets). I have been there a few times, twice on day trips, once an overnight stay, and would go back for another visit, assuming I had the time on the itinerary.

If you're into German lit. the houses/museums of Goethe, Schiller, Wieland, Herder are located in Weimar, lots to see in that regard. I like Weimar, a great relaxing place to explore on foot. It has a different feel to it compared to towns of similar sizes (pop and geographic size) in western Germany. If you read German, read the plaques you see in Weimar.

On the concentration camp if you are interested in seeing Buchenwald (liberated by the Americans), there is a bus am Goetheplatz that goes there. Signs point the way. You can reach the Goetheplatz by walking straight down from the train station, then veering right.

That famous statue of Goethe and Schiller am Theaterplatz is also located here in SF. Weimar is not only culturally and historically important, it's also a symbol.. If you have the time, nearby to Weimar, to visit elsewhere, I would heartily suggest based on your focus Naumburg an der Saale, (as pointed out above), another culturally and intellectually important town in Germany.

See the church with the two different towers, unique to Naumburg. I've not visited Naumburg in terms of exploring but was only at the train station in 1999 to change trains. Since you are focusing on Nietzsche on this trip, then Naumburg is definitely the place for you, his house is in Naumburg and the famous school he went to.

part 2 here...The last time I was in Weimar was in 2009, stayed over night this time instead of going there as day trips from Berlin. I came across a guided tour in the Zentrum, it was only in German, which I eavesdropped on since it was audible, found out then about the Goethe and Schiller statue in SF...a coincidence. I don't know if tours are conducted in English if that is what you want. I never took a tour in Weimar, only explored on my own. You'll see that Weimar is one of those "wonderful places."

In 2009 I didn't see any Americans in Weimar, totally off their radar, but it may be different now as that was almost a decade ago.

Vicky, our host has lots of free travel tips on his menu, top left. And two regular visitors to Germany have posted (on this newsboard) a lot of tips on last-minute local cut-rate rail tickets, Search box top center.

Of course it depends on your airline options, but I want to note that the year my wife and I went to "East" Germany, we flew United from the NYC area. But their partner, Lufthansa, using the United ticketing website, issued a connecting flight to Leipzig for less than the cost of surface transport back to "the same" i.e. Roundtrip, German hub city. And when you get a connecting flight, you don't care anymore about which German city your transatlantic flight goes to, adding to your options! Open-jaw like this could increase your sightseeing time by letting you fly home from Basel or Zurich - or even Bonn, if there are any trails of Nietzche left there.

Great ideas, everyone-thanks very much! I'm looking forward to nailing the details, but the frame of the trip is definitely pulling together, thanks to your guidance!