Using the Train in Germany??

"The tickets talked about are for one day only, so you have to buy them daily for your trip I assume?"

Yes, but it's easy. You can buy them at any of the red DB machines at stations and platforms (like the one in the middle of this photo of the Munich Hbf). I used my US Visa card in the machines just a couple of weeks ago, and there was no problem.

"I also read that you can only leave at 9 in the morning, so if you want to get an early start, that is out."

Weekdays, yes. But you can buy a cheap ticket from your starting point to a station where your train will be leaving after 9AM, and you're golden. Or travel on a Saturday, Sunday or holiday and the 9AM starting time does not apply; you can leave as early as you like. All the official terms and conditions are on the DB website.

"The trains on the Bayern ticket are at the same train station, just different trains??"

Bayern-Ticket covers all "local" trains (DB, BRB and Alex), and local public transit systems, including S-Bahn, U-Bahn, trams and busses. High-speed trains are not included. Go to the bahn.com website to plan your trip, uncheck the box that says "Prefer fast connections," and check the box that says "Local transport". The results (within Bavaria) will all be do-able with a Bayern-Ticket, subject to the 9AM rule.

Once you get used to it, and with a Bayern-Ticket (or a week-long Isar Card within the Munich MVV network), the rail system becomes your own personal "hop-on-hop-off" system.

On my recent nine-day trip I bought a seven-day, 13-ring Isar Card that covered the Munich MVV network, as far out as Herrsching, Erding, Dachau, Oberschleißheim and the Munich Airport, and traveled further afield (Bad Wörishofen, Nürnberg, Ingolstadt) with Bayern-Tickets on a holiday (Friday, 15. Aug, Assumption Day) and a Sunday.

This sounds like a mega case of first-time-nerves. Relax, chill out, and remember that trains are easier to use than driving everywhere. And they get you into city centres without having to find parking.

So here is a primer for rail greenhorns. If I don't answer all your queries just come back.

There are lots of different types of trains. Starting from the regional slow trains that stop at all stations up to High Speed Trains run at up to 320 Kph (200 mph) from big city to big city. In Germany the main categories are:

• U-Bahn: Underground / Metro services in big cities. Lines are numbered U1, U2 etc.
• S-Bahn: Suburban and commuter trains in and around big cities. Lines are numbered S1, S2 etc.
• R: Regional. Stops at every station
• RE: Regional Express. Stops at most stations, slightly faster.
• IRE: Inter Regional Express: Stops at main towns only.

---- The big divide ----

• IC: Intercity. Stops at big cities.
• ICE: Intercity Express. High Speed train. Stops at big cities. Runs at up to 320 KPH where the track allows.

They all start from the same stations. The main station in Munich is called "München Hbf" (Hbf = Hauptbahnhof = Main Station). You will find trains of all types side-by-side.

Trains of types U-Bahn, S-Bahn, R, RE and IRE have fixed price ticketing. The tickets are the same price whether you buy them on the day or in advance. There is NO RESERVATIONS. Just buy a ticket and get on the next train.
Trains of types IC and ICE use airline-type booking and pricing. The further in advance you book, the cheaper the ticket. When you buy a ticket, it includes a reservation for a particular train. Cheaper tickets are only valid on that train. On your ticket it says the wagon and seat number so you can go straight to your seat. If you buy on the day and pay full-fare, you get an 'open ticket' which is valid on any train.

There is no check-in, security or ticket check before you get on the train. You just need to find your train (easy - look at the departure board) and get yourself on board. Your ticket will be checked after the train is moving.

The ticket you are talking about is the "Bayern Ticket". Details are here. It is valid one day. It is generally good value, especially if two or more people are travelling together. But it is only valid on U-Bahn, S-Bahn, R, RE and IRE. "The ticket is valid Monday through Friday for one day of your choice from 9 am until 3 am on the following day or for an entire day on Saturday, Sunday ..."
A map of the rail network for the "Bayern Ticket" is here. This map shows all the stations apart from U-Bahn and S-Bahn (there are too many of them). The colour-code for each station shows how often the trains stop there. The large boxes are stations where IC and ICE trains also stop.

There is no longer-term pass. The alternative, if you want to use the faster IC and ICE trains is to decide your plans NOW and book tickets NOW on the German Railways website.

Done for now, any questions?

It's also worth noting that the "Bayern ticket" is just one example of a Länderticket. It's only valid in the state of Bavaria and certain border stations, and one of your destinations is on the far side of Saxony. Although I'm not 100% certain, I believe most of the federal states offer a similar ticket for sale.

The rail link between your Bavarian wish list and Dresden is fairly slow. You may want to consider a brief car rental for this side trip.

Well, a 10-day twin 2nd class German Rail Pass is 541 euro, 6 one day Bayern tickets for 2 at 27 euro per day comes to 162 euro. That looks like 379 euro to me, and you can do a lot with that on the other 4 days. If you want to visit Dresden, Berlin, and Prague, I'd suggest cutting your time in Munich short and spend a few nights in those cities rather than trying to hit them as day trips where most of your time will be spent riding the rails.

It might help for you to know that the ticket kiosks all function in English as well as German. So, it really is very easy to buy a Bayern Ticket and hop on the right train quickly each day.

If you want to have train schedules for each of your destinations at your fingertips, they have cards with the schedules (also noting train types as detailed by the previous poster) for many of the routes you listed on racks in the main entry hall of the train station ... or at least they still did a year and a half ago when I was last there. I usually pick up the ones I will need on my first day, then we can plan our day trips on the fly as we go.

If I was planning this trip and using Munich as a hub, I would probably plan to use a combination of train and rental car. Most days I would use the train but for destinations that are more challenging to reach as day trips by train (i.e. Rothenburg), I would rent a car for the day, get an early start, and spend some time exploring the countryside as well as the destination town. Just a thought.

Hope this helps.

"The rail link between your Bavarian wish list and Dresden is fairly slow. You may want to consider a brief car rental for this side trip."

With advance purchase, you can get a Saving Fare ticket including an ICE to from Munich to Nürnberg for as little at 49€ for two people. The trip takes 5:45.

According to ViaMichelin, Munich to Dresden takes 5:02, not that much longer, and fuel alone will cost 63€ (plus the cost of a day's car rental).

For most of your travel, express trains (ICE/IC/EC) are either unavailable or don't save you much time. A ten day 2nd twin DB pass costs $770. Ten Bayern-Tickets cost 270€ ($350). You'll save $420 by buying 10 separate Bayern-Tickets. BTW, a German Rail pass is only valid on the S-Bahn in Munich and other cities in Bavaria. A Bayern-Ticket is valid for all means of transport S-/U-Bahn, streetcars, buses) in cities.

"you can only leave at 9 in the morning"

You can leave anytime you want. You just can't use the Bayern-Ticket for travel before 9 AM workdays.

From the nearest major rail hub in northern Bavaria, Nürnberg, it takes 4.5 to almost 6 hours by rail to reach Dresden. I made the trip in just over 3 by car. Also, parking's pretty easy to find and the wide avenues of the city in Dresden make it easy to drive through. Hence, the recommendation for using a car for this leg. Some people consider other variables besides raw cost from time to time...

" I made the trip in just over 3 by car"

ViaMichelin gives the time by their recommended route as 3 hrs, 39 min. Have you checked you mailbox for photo radar tickets recently.

By the direct RE, it take only 4½ hours.

" Some people consider other variables besides raw cost"

Now that you mention it, probably 90+ % of the time driving you're looking at the road. Your time on the train is pretty much your own. Another reason to take the train.

I didn't think Nurnberg was that far. I thought maybe 2 hours max. I live in Texas and driving long distances, even living south of Houston is no big deal.

Last time we were in Germany and Austria for a month, we drove over 5000 miles. I know the problems with parking, but we really didn't have major problems, other than finding a hotel with parking or a garage, but...we always found one!

The other problem is we like to go early in the morning. I get up at 3 and would like to get on the road at least around 6:30 or 7 latest and can leave earlier to make it in time to get the max out of the visit! Day length in Germany will be short in December, so we have to make hay while the sun shines. I'm sure I have too many things on the list and I always plan more, knowing we may have to cut or adapt due to weather. Plan B, C, D!(GRIN)

All of you have sent plenty of ideas and I know I want to use the train some. Other areas we will probably get a rent car.

I was also surprised at how long it takes to get to Dresden!!!! Then how long to go from Munich to Berlin?????????

Dan

Hi,

I use a rail Pass traveling in Germany but with your intinerary as posted, that would not be my advice to get a Pass. If going to Dresden from northern Bayern is too slow, I would suggest this: take the early direct ICE train Nürnberg to Berlin Hbf, transfer to Dresden.

The connection Munich to Berlin is direct on the ICE, easily done by day. There is also the CNL night train Munich-Berlin if you prefer that option. You arrive shortly after 0700.

Munich to Berlin runs approx 6 hrs by train, not sure about by car but probably close to that also. It's 365 miles between the two, think Houston to Dallas plus 120 miles.

According to ViaMichelin, Munich to Dresden takes 5:02, not that much
longer, and fuel alone will cost 63€ (plus the cost of a day's car
rental).

If you drive fast it takes a bit more than four hours... without speeding tickets, lol.
One of the advantages is that you can see some sights along the way, like Kriebstein castle, the August Horch museum, Augustusburg Hunting Lodge or the Saxon railway Museum.

If we go to Berlin, it will be for several days staying with my cousin, so it's not that big a deal. But Rothenberg, Nurnberg, Salzburg, Regensburg and Fussen are high on the list. Dresden maybe. Just to set up a priority list. Everything we have is flexible and can and will be changed due to weather.

Just curious. Why are some town ending burg and others berg? What does it mean?

Dan

Fred, you are talking about going to Berlin and then down to Dresden??

You pronounce burg and berg the same, but Germans don't - they are different words - the first means "castle", the second "mountain."

Berg is pronounced as "bairk" ('ai' as in hair. Burg is pronounced "bourk" ('ou' as in tour).

Note that the 'r' in German is pronounced with the back of the tongue, not the tip as in English. I can't hear the difference when Germans pronounce 'r', but they can sure tell when we do. It's one of the first giveaways that we are not German.

The 'g' is de-voiced, pronounced like a 'k'. In German, certain consonants are de-voiced at the end of a word. 'b' becomes 'p', 'd' becomes 't', 'g' becomes 'k', 's' (pronounced soft, as 'z') becomes a hard 's', 'w' (normally pronounced 'v') becomes 'f'. It's called Entvokalisierung im Wortauslaut (de-voicing the final sound in a word).

"burg" as the ending to a place name doesn't mean "castle", it means fortified settlement. The vikings (who invaded England) had a similar word "burgh", this then became anglicised as *bury" or "borough". That is why there are a lot of viking founded towns along the East Coast of Britain whose names end in "burgh" or "borough": Edinburgh, Middlesborough, Scarborough, Aldeburgh, Peterborough, Bury St. Edmunds.

""burg" as the ending to a place name doesn't mean "castle", it means fortified settlement."

For the record, my Oxford-Duden dictionary translates "Burg" as "castle", although I like the translation of "fortification" as there are some walled cities ending in "burg", although the cities might have been originally built around castles. There are also some castles, such as Harburg and Burghausen that are described as "burgs".

My dictionary also translates "Schloß" as a castle or a palace.

Lee writes, "My dictionary also translates "Schloß" as a castle or a palace."

That likely has to do with the fact that modern dictionaries have a descriptive rather than prescriptive approach - and an English translation must therefore show the words that English speakers actually use when they refer to a Schloß, whether or not that usage is culturally "correct." The fact is that most Americans probably couldn't tell you the difference between a castle and a palace because they are somewhat culturally and linguistically handicapped in this regard, and they use the words somewhat indiscriminately - so a German-English dictionary captures this indiscriminate usage.

But Germans DO draw a major distinction between Burg and Schloß, and German-German dictionaries make this distinction very clear.

That said, Germans occasionally differ over what's a Burg and what's a Schloß - not because they don't get the distinction, but because this or that particular structure is actually historically ambiguous, as in the case of a genuine castle that was later remodeled into a palace (a frequent occurrence.) It's the same problem we have with gender bending situations... do we use "He" or "She"? But this confusion doesn't mean that we don't have a common understanding of what He means and what She means. We in fact do.

If the Germans are speaking High German, as they would with a foreigner, one can recognise their "r" sound... the Zäpfchen "r" as it is known in German linguistics. Anglophone speakers do find it difficult imitating that "r" sound, and that's one dead give-away that your native language is English, among other linguistic signs.

@ Russ...when in doubt it's best to consult and rely on a German-German dictionary, as you suggest, such as Dulden for proper diction and contextual comprehension.

I think I almost have the 'r' sound right. On a recent trip to Germany a local said my German sounded like it had a Dutch accent, rather than English (that was encouraging, at least). But for some reason locals never understand me when I ask for Radler ...

Guess I'll have to keep practicing. And order another Radler. :)

The German "r" comes out very differently depending on it's location in the word/syllable. Yes - you have to do that first "r" in Radler. But fortunately for English speakers, the second "r" in "Radler", just like the "r" in "Burg" and "Berg", is post-vocalic, and in standard German, it comes out as a schwa-like vowel. The "r" you hear when a German says "Burg" is something like "uh" that you hear in standard British English "bird" - not really an "r" at all. It's more like "Boo-uh-k" scrunched into one syllable.

Sorry to steer the conversation away from "burg/berg", but I have a question. :) When you purchase the Bayern ticket from a kiosk, do you need a PIN number in order to use your credit card? Last year we tried buying a ticket with our credit card - and no PIN, and it wouldn't work. Our friend had a card with a PIN and was able to purchase our tickets.
We're headed back to Munich again this Fall and am wondering if we need a PIN for our Capital One card.

Thanks.

I would like to know as well. Reading Steve's it said yes, but a friend said on her credit card she didn't need it. her draft card of course yes. I need to know as well before we go over to Italy and Germany.

Dan

When you purchase the Bayern ticket from a kiosk, do you need a PIN number in order to use your credit card?

Last month -- on Aug. 15 and again on Aug. 17 -- I used my Capital One Visa credit card (no PIN) to buy Bayern Tickets from the red DB kiosks in the Marienplatz S-Bahn station. It worked every time. The machine asked for a PIN, but when none was entered it processed the transaction after a few seconds anyway.

The green MVV kiosks nearby do not accept US credit cards -- use cash for those.

I have only used my credit card in Europe a few times, mostly when a ticket machine didn't take cash, and the counter wasn't open or there was a big line. I don't have a PIN and the card always worked.

Other than that, I try to avoid using plastic. I have found that the accommodations that have the best prices don't take cards.

Thanks for the advice!