Understanding the train system and transportation options in Germany

I'm at work and will respond later, but check out ---- seat61.com -- it's a great site for all questions about trains. Even has photos. You can actually email the owner of the website and he is super helpful at answering questions.

from Munich to our hotel in Zimmerstraße/Checkpoint Charlie neighborhood of Berlin (with luggage).

Saver fare from Munich to Berlin at the Bahn website you linked to. Non-refundable, basically, but typically cheap if you buy early. (Trip insurance might cover loss if you must cancel.) Buy ASAP for the best fare as prices go up with ticket sales.

from Munich airport to our hotel in Arnulfpark neighborhood of Munich (with luggage)

Airport plus ticket; buy at the airport train station from a ticket machine or using the DB app.

then a roundtrip day trip from Munich to Nuremberg

Cheap using a Bayern Ticket on regional trains. Buy on day of travel from ticket machine or DB app. Find all regional train journeys by specifying "only local transport" at the DB site. The journey is a bit longer on these trains but the Bayern ticket gives you flexibility to travel when you like and also gives you bus, subway, tram services if needed in both cities. Schedule this on a Saturday or Sunday if you can so that you have an all-day ticket (on weekdays you must start your journey after 9 am.)

Can't explain the whole system to you. It's complicated.

Amazing, thank you.

I found this explainer-- can folks verify it's correct?
https://www.wanderingermany.com/german-train-tickets-explained/

• Red = local trains (RE, RB,
  
• White = long distance (ICE, IC, EC)
• S-Bahn = Suburban train (above/underground)
• U-Bahn = Underground train/subway (underground)

About your routing.....a day trip to Nuremburg from Munich means backtracking to Munich. Nuremburg is on the way to Berlin. Wouldn't it be easier to go to Nuremberg, see the sights, and then catch the train to Berlin? Perhaps even spending the night in Nuremberg?

You will know which is the Ubahn and SBahn because it will say so on the signs.

Don't worry about colors. While the fares and passes are complicated and I'm not going to add any info on them, taking the trains is not.

For your trip to Nuremberg and Berlin you will be on either IC or ICE trains. It doesn't matter what color. When you get to the train station, just look for your train number and it will tell you what track to go to.

The SBahn and Ubahn will be clearly marked as will any trams. These you will use in the cities and the suburbs. These are separate from the mainline trains.

While the regional trains go to many cities, they are slower. I don't suggest them for your needs as IC/ICE fares can be very low when bought in advance. As an example, a regional train roundtrip from Munich to Nuremberg will add an extra hour to the journey.

The previous suggestion of looking at the Seat 61 website is good:

https://www.seat61.com/train-travel-in-germany.htm

and even on this website there is information on taking trains. (Just ignore his going on and on about rail passes.)

https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/transportation/trains

The Bahn (national rail system) runs trains long distance trains - Intercity Express (ICE), Intercity (IC), and Eurocity (EC).

The individual states, through subsidiaries of the national rail company, run the regional trains - basically Regional Bahn (RB), "milk run" trains that stop in every station, and Regional Express (RE), that skip small stations to run faster. Then, in the cities, the Bahn runs the S-Bahn (basically a regional train), which is a commuter train, like the Long Island Railroad in NYC.

In big cities, like Berlin or Munich, the local transit authorities run the local transport - U-Bahn, essentially like the NYC subways, streetcars, and buses.

"While the regional trains go to many cities, they are slower. I don't suggest them for your needs as IC/ICE fares can be very low when bought in advance. As an example, a regional train roundtrip from Munich to Nuremberg will add an extra hour to the journey."

Clearly, individuals have their individual sensibilities about train matters.

My take... Saver fares on the ICEs are a great thing, but IMO should be used sparingly... they get you there fast, but they...

• lock in the specific trains you must use for travel to Nuremberg and back. You're on your ticket's schedule, decided and purchased months beforehand, not your own.

• do NOT include inner-city transport. Going to the Documentation Center? You have more tickets to buy. With the Bayern Ticket, you just flash your day pass.

• will cost more than the Bayern Ticket, even if you get the very best price. Even if both kids are young enough to travel for free, saver fares will be €60/2 adults round trip, minimum - and then only if you find that price available for the handful of tickets in that price super-saver category. Then prices climb. Once all saver fares have sold, the standard fare (Flex Fare, roughly €280 round trip for 2 adults) is what's left. If you want the same flexibility the Bayern Ticket provides, you can buy the Flex Fare at any time, of course. But the Bayern Ticket is €39/2, flexible, and you can buy it on the day of travel.

The Munich > Berlin trip is roughly 4 hours with the ICE if you get on and stay on. If you inject a Nuremberg stopover, you have the same issues with the saver fare tickets - the stoppover time is inflexible, no options for local transport, etc. And of course you will be "shortchanging" your time in Nuremberg to complete that 4 hour trip in the same way that the regional Bayern Ticket round-trip "shortchanges" your Nuremberg time by one hour compared with the ICE round trip.

Berlin tickets/passes - https://www.bvg.de/en/subscriptions-and-tickets

Munich tickets/passes - https://www.mvv-muenchen.de/en/tickets-and-fares/tickets-daytickets/index.html

Note that for these urban zones, mvv and bvg tickets and passes are valid on buses, subways, trams, as you would expect - and on regional trains (like the S-Bahn) whenever these trains are needed for a particular journey.

Map of Munich region's S-Bahn system: https://cdn.foravisit.com/_munich/mvv/s-bahn/_xl.gif

The Bayern Ticket covers all these modes of transport too. And it works throughout all of Bavaria:
http://www.regionale-schienen.at/images/sites/0/onlineThema/0806_z08.pdf
(The blue lines are rivers.)

Both Berlin and Munich have apps that will allow you to buy public transport tickets online. I found the apps easier to use than buying physical tickets.

Got it! Is it worth getting the Deutschland Ticket subscription for all rail during our time there? We'll be there 8 days.

D-Ticket: How old are your kids? If they're 6+ they need the same D--Ticket you would (€49 each now.) D-tickets are no good for your ICE trip to Berlin or for other trips with ICE/IC/EC/RJ trains. How many days would you actually use the Bayern Ticket? With the Bayern Ticket, the kids travel for free until age 15. When will you travel? The D-ticket may cost more next year as there's presently a significant funding gap in the program. It might in fact not even be around. It's hard to advise on something that could well disappear. If it does stay around, there's a good chance it might be valuable, but the math can't be done with all the current variables. The other more traditional tickets and passes have some history behind them, will likely persist, and are tangibles we can talk about.

Once you are able to do the math, if the D-Ticket ends up being 25% more expensive than the alternatives, the convenience it offers would still tip the scale in its favor, IMO.

About that "Wander in Germany" link and other non-official sites: Approach with caution. Misinformation is widespread these days, sometimes even with a tone of authority...

A frequently confused ticket with the Deutsche Bahn German Rail Pass
is the Eurail Pass. Simply put, the DB Rail Pass is for people who
are not European residents (IE: Coming from America) and the Eurail
Pass is for Europeans.

• (DB no longer issues German Rail Passes. Eurail does. What you buy now is sold as a Eurail pass for Germany.)
• (Every site that sells Eurail passes clearly indicates that Europeans may NOT purchase Eurailpasses.)

Kids up to 14 are free unless it is on a Land Ticket (like the Bayern
Pass)

But those kids ARE free on the Bayern Ticket! (which is a day pass for Bayern... but it's never called the "Bayern Pass.") Guess this self-appointed rail authority never bothered to consult the DB site on its Bayern Ticket product:

Up to three children between 6-14 years of age can be taken along free
of charge on the ticket.

https://www.discover-bavaria.com/tickets

just a small observation on one of your comments, following the excellent explanations and suggestions above

• S-Bahn = Suburban train (above/underground)
• U-Bahn = Underground train/subway (underground)

No matter if we talk about Frankfurt or Berlin or Nuremberg or Munich or even London or New York, the urban underground railway is often underground in the city core where it needs to be out of the way, but as soon as it can it goes up to the surface or even raised above the surface.

Most of the London Underground is on the surface, as is the U-Bahn in Munich and Frankfurt, and the Métro in Paris.

And when the S-Bahn comes into the centre, like the LIRR mentioned above or the Frankfurt or Munich S-Bahns, they all dive underground.

It is worthwhile noting that systems referred to as U-Bahn or London Underground or Paris Métro usually have many stops quite close together and often stop at them all, whereas S-Bahns such as Paris RER, German S-Bahns, and suburban railways in England and the US have stops much further apart, higher speed limits, sometimes skip stops, and are generally faster to your destination.

Most of the London Underground is on the surface, as is the U-Bahn in Munich

No, most of the U-Bahn in Munich is underground. That's why imediately after the recent snow storm in Munich, the U-Bahn was running when the S-Bahn and trams were not.

There are about 5 stations on the U6 line out to Garching, after Alte Heide, that are above ground. The U6 line is also the only U-Bahn line with stations not in the Munich Metro (central) zone.

Most of the London Underground is on the surface, as is the U-Bahn in
Munich and Frankfurt, and the Métro in Paris.

Most of the Paris metro is underground as well, and the Paris metro is very different from the London Underground as it was build for an entirely different purpose.

In Berlin. the S-Bahn and the U-Bahn are run by 2 seperate entities (it's an historical thing) - the S-Bahn is owned and operated by DB (Deutsche Bahn), while the U-Bahn is owned and operated by BVG (Berliner Verkehrsbetriebe). The beautiful thing for the rider is that all ticketing is cross-platform ie. a ticket purchased at a U-Bahn station can be used on an S-Bahn and vice versa.

Berlin has a 3rd means of public transit that being the Tram / Metrotram lines (also owned and operated by BVG) with similar ticketing as above. It is quite a vast network with over 20 routes.

.

There are lots of individual routes in Berlin where, for portions of the routes, the U-Bahn travels above ground and the S-Bahn travels below ground.

.

** from a previous thread of yours ** Aren't you already halfway through this trip **

Most of the Paris metro is underground as well,

Line 6?

Hello from Munich. I'm not going to comment on all the different choices you have when riding the rails in Europe or all the different fares. It's well done above by those more expert than me. However, I tell you about our experiences traveling thru 4 countries for the past three weeks. NEVER assume a train will arrive or depart on time. Always be flexible and a bit "oh well". That, and try to avoid having to transfer trains while traveling to a particular city. So far, we've had one OBB train cancelled altogether, a Czech train arriving to our destination 90 minutes late, a DB train leaving 90 minutes late. You get the picture. Just keep your eyes open for announcements, check with the information office staff for alternative trains and things will work out...eventually. When the OBB train from Vienna to Budapest was canceled (weather), we hopped the next Budapest bound train. Happened to be Czech. One downside: no reservations, obviously, so we had to stand for about an hour when the people who reserved the seats boarded the train and no other seats were available. Our train was Nuremburg to Munich was estimated to be 90 minutes late arriving in Nuremburg so we asked DB people and they said fine, hop on the next one out of here in about 5 minutes. We did and this time found unreserved seats all the way to Munich. Flexibility. Yes, the small fee you spend for reserved seats is well worth it even if you sacrifice the money by taking another train. I know Seat 61 guy says just get on a train and go, but these days it seems everybody is traveling. I'll take some semblance of peace of mind. At least until we get to the station and find our train is nowhere on the big board.

One other thing. In Munich, if you don't buy a Munich card, an all day group pass is the way to go. Will save you a bunch of money if you are running around the city as a party of four. The MVV website explains all tickets and fares really well.

We have about 10 days left on this, our fourth trip to Europe, and we love the transportation systems in Europe. You will too. Just be calm, don't let it intimidate you, gather all the info you can and even watch how-to YouTube videos. Happy travels.

Got it! Is it worth getting the Deutschland Ticket subscription for
all rail during our time there? We'll be there 8 days.

Looks like a no. D-Ticket does not include ICE trains. You are just comparing the cost of your local S or U-Bahn tickets.

Many German cities have a family day or multi-day ticket that is inexpensive compared to individual trip tickets.

Apps, like MVV are a big help for local travel. Great for buying, using and navigating. Don't forget that bus or tram travel is a local option in may cities. One of the bonuses of the bus or tram option is looking out of the window.

The DB website

int.bahn.de

can be a little confusing. Try their app instead. The app also stores your tickets.