Train vs Rent a car for Bavaria Trip

We might fly into Salzburg and out of Munich- but again, will see what
best flight options are - also could do round trip to Munich. (right
now that would save us $400 apiece).

My gut feeling is that round trip to Munich will be easier and cheaper. Salzburg has a pretty small airport so options to get there are limited.

My main question is, should we rent a car, or will public transport
get us where we need / want to go.

That is of course impossible to answer without knowing where you need or want to go. But I'm still going to say that the train is the answer, and maybe an occasional bus.

Badger
thanks! So we likely will like to go to a small town, explore the Castles, Eagle's Nest, etc - your basic touristy things. We are nature lovers, but won't be doing too much activities other than maybe running around at some look-out, etc.

I guess I wasn't sure how practical it is to NOT have a car? When it comes to planning train trips, do you need to purchase in advance, or is it like Belgium IC trains were you can just show up and hop and and you don't pay any more than if you booked 2 months in advance? I want to keep the flexibility of not needing to plan everything out specifically in case things change. We like take things slow.

Are all the mountain towns connected via train? Just don't want to limit myself if we don't have a car

We rented a car in Munich and travelled the Romantic Road in Bavaria in August 2017. Great way to get around and see the Bavarian countryside. German drivers were particularly polite and made the road trip enjoyable. Safe travels…

You can get around just about every place in Germany by train. I spent 3 weeks there last year and used train travel for almost the entire trip. The only time I rented a car was when I was staying in Ostbevern for 4 nights, as the train station was a couple of miles from the center of town. It was easier to get around there via car. I used AutoEurope, which I have used in the past and has always worked well for me.

So as Badger said, it really depends on where you base yourself and where you go from there. If you base in Munich, use trains to get around as you do not want to have a car in the city. But for the southeast area you are talking about, it might help to have a car, especially since you have four people. In 2010, I went with a friend to Germany, and we rented a car to drive southeast and wound up in Salzburg for 3 nights. You can stay in town, but we actually wound up booking a room at a farmhouse on the outskirts of town, then took the bus into Salzburg each morning. The bus stop was right across the street.

There are really lots of options, but again, I would first figure out where you plan to stay and then decide on the means of transportation. Btw, if you do rent a car and take it across the border, you must let your rental agency know as there may be a fee. Plus you have to get a sticker at the border, but it is quick easy and quick.

"...looking at southern Germany/Austria for two weeks."

"My gut says a rental car is best for exploring the countryside and small towns and castles, then ditch the car when we get to Munich."

"We are in the very beginning of planning, so definitely not set on those areas by any means."

My initial response is that you should postpone your car/train decision until you are fully committed to an itinerary.

It is not uncommon for people familiar with Rick Steves' materials to lean into his "loves" (which seem to be located largely in Bavaria.) But I think the most enjoyable itinerary will be one that best accommodates the specific travel interests of your group.

The phrase below is the only one I find in your post that does this:

...exploring the countryside and small towns and castles

And the first place that pops into MY mind in this regard is not southern Bavaria but instead the Middle Rhine Valley and the nearby Mosel River Valley. The scenery is top-notch. Have you given any thought to this area? Frankfurt Airport is VERY close to the Rhine Valley. A few examples of towns and castles in each river valley

Middle Rhine Valley, Castles...
Rheinstein
Marksburg
Stahleck
Rheinfels
Katz
Reichenstein

Middle Rhine Valley, small old-world towns...

Oberwesel
Braubach
Bacharach
Boppard
Rüdesheim[
Osterspai

Mosel River towns

Mosel Castles:

Reichsburg
Eltz
Thurant

Nearly all of the above castles have roots in the Middle Ages and are accessible to the public for tours, as hotels, or as dining spots. Day boats on both the Mosel and Rhine rivers offer cruise opportunities for more casual viewing as well.

Towns on both rivers tend to be very close to each other - on the Rhine you can easily visit 2-3 towns and maybe a castle as well in a single day.

I recently heard from the son-in-law now living in Singapore that a rental car this coming Spring-Summer in Germany for three weeks was @ euro 5,000. Gas is now @ 1,70 euro a liter too. You did not mention the time of year. I think a combination of both might be in order for Austria. A dip south from Berchtesgaden, Garmisch-Partenkirchen or Füssen with a car to Tirol, Osttirol, Arlberg and in Italy Südtirol, where trains won't get you most places and you can cover the most ground with a car. You will most likely need an International drivers license and study German/Austrian road signs and laws. I's not that hard and take your time on the roads. Have a good Navi that you are familiar with. You don't need to drive the Austrian Toll Autobahns. I would make/have an Itinerary with hotels as a minimum.

I assume this is your JULY trip, correct?

I could easily see 4-5 nights in the Rhine/Mosel Valleys with the rest of your 2 weeks in Bavaria.

There are in fact painfully few genuine castles in southern Bavaria, and most all are in ruins. From Garmisch-Partenkirchen or Füssen you might visit the Ehrenburg Ruins across the Austrian border; not worth the trip IMO unless you have other goals in that area.

You can of course head to Füssen for Neuschwanstein, where building wrapped up in 1890's, as I recall learning, and wage battle for tickets and personal space - with every other international tourist in Bavaria - to get on the overcrowded and expensive 30-minute tour... just keep in mind that genuine castles weren't built in the late 19th century. This is a modern-era royal residence built with concrete, plumbing, and a fake castle exterior. Nearby Hohenschwangau "Castle" is a palace as well.

If you make it to Salzburg, consider a trip out to Werfen for a tour of the medieval fortress "Hohenwerfen" there (falconry show as well.)

https://www.salzburg-burgen.at/en/hohenwerfen-castle/

Thanks all.

Yes. July. November we are going to Vienna and staying there (and Bratislava for a day) Back to the drawing board! I like the idea of the Rhine valley So maybe fly into FRA. Stay there for ~5 days. What is a good base there? I don’t want to move towns every couple of days for a variety of reasons, one of which is mainly packing up the little one.

Then to Bavaria. For another ~5-6 nights. Which area do you think would allow the most to do with the least stress / hassle? G-P/Fussen or Berchtesgaden?

Then probably to Munich for a night or two and fly home.

FWIW, I have a rental car in England booked for the spring of next year for 2 1/2 weeks, and I'm paying £810 (around €945). Obviously that is a different country but I am quite sure you can find rentals for reasonable (for now) prices, especially if you just rent for a shorter period of time. And last year in Germany, my rental car for 4 days cost around $125. Yes, prices have gone up but there are always deals to be found.

I did not have an Int'l Driver's License when I drove in Germany (both times) . According to the US Embassy in Germany, U.S. citizens planning to stay less than a year, may legally drive in Germany for up to 364 days in Germany on their U.S. driver’s licenses.

Russ has a good idea about the Rhine area. It's beautiful, easy to get to, and lots of gorgeous castles and ruins to see. The ferries are always enjoyable as well. I was there last year and stayed in Boppard for 3 nights, which makes a good base. My hotel sat right on the river and was about 50 feet from the KD ferry stop. I took the train to Bingen and the traveled by ferry back to Boppard. The views are quite incredible as you cruise along the river.

I highly recommend seeing Burg Eltz while you are there. It's a fascinating castle that is still owned by the original family. The scenery around it is breathtaking, and it's easy to get to by train and bus.

I guess I wasn't sure how practical it is to NOT have a car? When it
comes to planning train trips, do you need to purchase in advance, or
is it like Belgium IC trains were you can just show up and hop and and
you don't pay any more than if you booked 2 months in advance?

Local regional trains generally have a fixed price. And if you get the Deutschlandticket you get unlimited travel on trains (expect ICE and IC) and buses for €49/month.

But in general, first find out where you want to go. Then you can worry about the best way to get there.

I did not have an Int'l Driver's License when I drove in Germany (both
times) . According to the US Embassy in Germany, U.S. citizens
planning to stay less than a year, may legally drive in Germany for up
to 364 days in Germany on their U.S. driver’s licenses.

You should have gotten an IDP. You have misunderstood the embassy's advice, what they are saying is that if you're moving to Germany you can drive for 364 days on a foreign licence before you need to take a German driving test and get a German licence. But you still probably need an International Driving Permit (even if there are exceptions).

"I like the idea of the Rhine valley So maybe fly into FRA. Stay there for ~5 days. What is a good base there?"

For a one-town Rhine + Mosel base solution, look first at Mardee's suggestion: BOPPARD. Its central location will simplify your outings on the Rhine and Mosel to other towns. See map of region below:

https://www.stepmap.de/landkarte/Radtour-Mosel-Rhein-1448399.png

BOPPARD will also make river cruising simpler. Just take the train south to BINGEN and catch a cruise boat back to Boppard, at the northern end of the scenic Rhine cruise zone (see map of this zone below.)

https://www.castle-liebenstein.com/pictures/maps/rhine-valley-map400.jpg

(Note: Besides the Rhine sightseeing cruises that travel up- and downstream, there are also FERRIES - like the one in Boppard - that only CROSS the Rhine. Mardee's use of the word "ferry" refers to the cruise boat, I believe.)

Transportion from Boppard: most outings by train and/or bus are free from this base town. All hotels and other lodging establishments issue the VRM Guest Ticket to each guest as an incentive to stay there. Train lines run right along the river banks on both the Rhine and the Mosel, and the trains run hourly or better in both directions from Boppard. All towns within the VRM zone on the map below are accessible with the Guest Ticket:

https://www.vrminfo.de/fileadmin/data_vrminfo/PDF/Gaesteticket/Infoflyer_Gaesteticket_englisch_2022.pdf

"Then to Bavaria. For another ~5-6 nights. Which area do you think would allow the most to do with the least stress / hassle? G-P/Fussen or Berchtesgaden?"

G-P (which btw ALSO has a guest ticket providing limited free public transportation) offers direct train trips into Munich. Trains from G-P will also get you to the Zugspitze, to Oberammergau, to Innsbruck Austria, and to the gorgeous little village of Mittenwald (20 minutes by direct train... take the Karwendelbahn mountain lift, see the Leutasch river gorge, the violin-making museum... see link below.)

A day trip to Mittenwald

A bus trip from G-P will get you to Oberammergau as well, and also to King Ludwig II's Linderhof Palace.

You can see the train and bus lines that spiral out of Garmisch-Partenkirchen at the map below.

https://www.bayern-fahrplan.de/en/media/images/werdefels-geltungsbereich/image_view_fullscreen

We did 16 days this past summer...flew into Frankfurt and out of Munich.
Took train to Boppard upon arrival and stayed 4 nights...on morning 3 we used our local free train card to go to Koblenz to pick up our rental car. We were then independent while we travelled to Rothenberg ob der Tauber, Nuremberg, Schwangau (for the castles/palaces), Berchtesgaden and ended our trip in Munich.
Upon arrival in Munich, we checked into our hotel and then returned our rental car and spent 3 nights there with no need for the car and took the Sbahn to the airport.
I would do it exactly the same way again. We loved the independence of having a car and stopping when and where we chose. Scheduling ourselves rather than by a train schedule. We stayed in 6 hotels so with the moving it was also so much easier with a car to not have to totally pack our suitcases up tight for train travel.
We did not find the rental cost excessive and gas prices are actually similar to ours here in Canada.
With a car it also allowed us much more freedom to book hotels in places away from train stations. We stayed in the old towns of a few places and up in the alps and in a small village once.
It certainly depends on your personal travel style but don't be swayed away from a rental car if thats what you think you might prefer. Driving was easy, parking was never a problem - even at a lunch stop in Heidelberg we just googled for a parking garage in the old town and it took us straight to one, we parked stepped out of the garage and there we were. Salzburg, we went for an afternoon and found they have park and ride lots on the edge of the city for a good price - you park and take a bus into the old town all for one very reasonable cost. Hotels we just made sure they had parking - some were free, some we had to pay.
With a car you are on your own clock at all times. Have fun planning - its a beautiful country and one of our best ever vacations.

"With a car it also allowed us much more freedom to book hotels in places away from train stations."

This is an important consideration, I think - in some cases... If you have traveled to large cities and don't want the urban environment (unusual, maybe?) ...or if you are booking rooms last-minute and the close-in hotels are booked up or don't meet your needs... It is in fact not that much fun to have to begin a day outing or your next travel leg with a long walk or a time-eating bus ride to the station! Also, if I had my eyes on Baden-Baden (which I do not,) I would probably want a car to get there and to get away from there. There are a few small towns/cities in Germany, like Baden-Baden, which DO have a train station, but one that is so poorly located that you need a 20-minute bus ride just to catch your train (pretty unusual.)

Age and health can be factors as well. Stairs, bag carrying, etc. can present momentary challenges on the trains and are sometimes more demanding than car travel.

"It certainly depends on your personal travel style but don't be swayed away from a rental car if that's what you think you might prefer."

I hear "personal travel style" as an explanation for why some prefer trains, but I honestly don't get that. Americans aren't generally in the habit of traveling by train - they "see the USA in a Chevrolet" (thanks for the commercial, Dinah) or they fly. Trains aren't typically a "style" with the exception of certain east-coast runs. Trains are, however, very much a style of travel for many, many Germans, 7.8 million of whom, on average, ride the trains every day, trains that pass through roughly 5,000 different train stations around the country. So I think this very large difference between our two cultures is worth some exploration. Maybe that rail system has merit, maybe those Germans are onto something, etc., and maybe the way we do things back home doesn't have to be the way we do them in Europe. I think it's probably a healthy thing to give the rail system a try.

DW and I have gone both ways over the decades but we've both been overwhelmed by the overall dependability, travel freedom, flexibility, safety, and freedom FROM driving tasks that the DB rail system offers, and we do not do rental cars unless some part of our itinerary absolutely demands it (as it occasionally does.) There is a learning curve to using German trains to your advantage, for sure. But then there is a whole package of legal and contractual responsibility that comes with car rentals, of course, not to mention STAU, picking up and dropping off tasks, occasional road hazards and fender-benders, etc., radar-tickets, etc. which train travel completely bypasses.

I’ve done three road trips in that area and very much enjoyed the flexibility of having a car to explore areas like Garmisch, Berchtesgaden, Hallstatt and many more. For a family of 4 (same as us), I would recommend looking at estate cars. They’re a little bigger and have more cargo room. You’ll need that for luggage. We’ve struggled getting 4 carry on bags plus backpacks in the back of SUVs.

Driving in Germany is easy. Just don’t think that the autobahn has no speed limit. It decides in places and is enforced with cameras.

Renting in one country and returning in another can come with hefty fees.

I recommend getting the no deductible insurance coverage. Takes a lot of stress out of the whole trip.

I’m currently on a trip in Germany where we’re traveling by train. It has its own stresses: late trains, cancelled trains, missed connections, potential strikes, lugging suitcases around, will there be enough seats on regional trains where you can’t make reservations, will there be enough room for your bags, etc.

There are numerous options and you can very easily use one base for a week in any area I've been to Germany. Once you've chosen your three bases, see if it's more practical to travel by train or car. Seeing as there are four of you with luggage, you will need a biggish car: a family size rental (automatic, all inclusive, two weeks from FRA) is about C$1300 with Autoeurope in July.

Re the Berchtesgaden area, I prefer Bad Reichenall or Ramsau to the town of Berchtesgaden. Ramsau has more of a countryside feel, Bad Reichenall is an attractive town with a nice backdrop. Good local transport and easy to get to Salzburg by bus.