Train passes

facts, facts, we need facts. It is highly unlikely you could spend that much without really trying, unless you are going to very unusual places and abhor planning.

Most tourists go to similar places and if you follow a similar crowd you can spend a small fraction with regional tickets and sparpreis savers.

Please share your projected trips and there are some pretty knowledgeable folk on here who can save you bags full of dinero.

By the way those eurail passes are for so many days of travel regardless of number of trips, not for 10 trips.

The arithmetic is easily done by looking at the websites of the German (www.bahn.com/en/view/index.shtml) and Austrian railways (http://fahrplan.oebb.at/bin/query.exe/en?) what the price of separate tickets would be. I know of the German railways they have tremendously good offers. Advance buying of tickets can give discounts of 50% or more. And travelling within the same state is cheap with the regional tickets, which give unlimited travel for a day at some EUR 30 for two persons.
Some long-distance trains need reservation. The costs are just a few EUR per person, but it gives a pass less practical advantages than you might imagine.

Seat reservations are not required on German and Austrian daytime trains. They are optional on the faster types.

Both you can travel all over southern Germany all day long for 31Euro with the Bavarian Pass. It even gets you as far as Salzburg Austria. Look at www.bahn.de for pricing your point to point tickets.

"I am thinking the eurail pass for Germany and Austria which allows up to 10 train trips..."

That's quite logical - and it's POSSIBLE that that is what you should do - but I suspect you can do better in other ways.

Let's just say for the sake of discussion that you have 7 destinations far and wide around Germany, and 3 destinations in Austria - let's say Salzburg, Vienna and Innsbruck. A 10-day German rail pass from DB for two adults in the "flexi" version will cost you €533 and covers all the German cities and 2 of the 3 Austrian cities.

But if you have some German destinations only 1 hour from others, you might consider a day trip to those places using local/regional day passes. Take Bamberg - Nuremberg for example... €19/day for two on a "Tagesticket plus" day pass gets you there and back - and also allows for inner-city transport (Eurail and German Rail passes do not have this feature.)

So if there are 3 such short journeys, instead of a 10-day pass, it might be that would want only a 7-day pass. Or maybe no pass at all - there are very good "saver fares" available at DB for advance purchase. As others have said, it all depends on the specific details of your itinerary.

To add to Russ's advice, check locally. Nuremberg-Bamberg can be done on a Nuremberg transport "Tages Ticket Plus" which is cheaper than a Bayern Ticket but allows one day's unlimited travel in a large area of northern Bavaria.

Sometimes the pass really does make more sense - the best way to tell is price out your itinerary in point to point tickets. There is also the convenience factor of the pass - no set train you need to make. No need to worry about reservations - if the train is full head to the bistro/bar car and meet some fellow travelers. Many trains have a closet in the bar car to store your bag if you want - especially on Austrian trains.

Sometimes the pass really does make more sense

Theoretically, I guess, but in practice I have yet to see that.

In 2000, I went to Germany with a 5 day German Rail pass, and when I returned, I looked at all of my travel on the pass, and compared it to what I would have paid for regular tickets, and I found I had just about broken even, but for some connections I had used more expensive express trains when regional trains would have been a lot less cost without taking much more time.

A lot has changed since then, including the advent of regional day tickets, which offer the flexibility of a rail pass at a much lower cost. Since then, before every trip (9), I've mapped out my itinerary and selected the least expensive option. I have never found a rail pass to be close to cost effective. I've spent more time traveling in Bavaria than any other state. It's a very big state with lots to see, much of it only accessible by regional trains, for which the Bayern-Ticket is a good option. Four times I've used Savings Fare tickets when I was already in Germany. Three times I've bought tickets at full fare (FRA-Karlsruhe) tickets because I was just arriving by air. The rest of the time has been QdL- and SW-Tickets and Länder-Tickets or point-point when the distance has been too short.

Don't just compare a rail pass to point-point tickets, also look at regional passes and Savings-Fare tickets.

QdL-, SW-, and Länder-Tickets are just as easy to use as rail passes.

If you are traveling longer distances where the regional tickets do not apply a pass can make sense. Making sense is also not always about being the cheapest - convenience & flexibility have value to some travelers. One size does not fit all.

You can get most of that convenience and flexibilit just by purchasing tickets on the go from the Deutsche Bahn kiosks, and except for some very long routes, you will still pay less than with a pass.

One example I know is day of, round trip tickets Berlin to Leipzig, which we plan on doing as a day trip, is about $115 for 2 cheapest in 2nd and not at the most convenient time. A one way runs between $65 & 100 and a round trip at the times I want is $160.

We'd have to return very early too use a regional day ticket - if one were even available for these two areas combined. The day trains are all IC & ICE so QdL would not apply - if it did it would turn a 1 hr trip into a 6 hr trip.

So like I said just do the math. It really depends on your specific needs - I can't make sweeping statements as I have not checked every possible route.

I think Christi is right about circumstances. The German Rail Pass IMO has lately become a more desirable option in some situations than it was before.

It used to be that you bought saver fares 90 days in advance for the best prices. But now that the pre-purchase period is six months, you have to start competing for the capacity-controlled cheap fares in February for trips that will take place in AUGUST, and prices start rising very early. For me, buying train-specific tickets with expensive refund fees THAT far in advance could very easily result in a lot of extra expense and headaches... over the course of 6 months, I'm far more likely to want a change in my travel plans.

Let's say a couple wants to travel (in 2nd class) Berlin - Hamburg - Frankfurt - Munich and do a couple of short day trips from 2 of those places. In theory, they can get saver fares for €40-€50 for each of those 3 major travel legs trips 6 months out. And they would pay around €30/day for 2 day trips on local day passes. So that's maybe €210 total at the very, very best, probably a little more. OTOH the 3-day German Rail twin pass, flexi version, sells for €292 at DB; adding 2 travel days adds only €43 to the total price for two - so figure €335 for 5 days. Is the additional € worth it? Very possibly...

• What if you just can't decide on your destinations 6 months in advance? With a rail pass, you can finalize things the week before you leave - or perhaps even once you're in Germany. The rail pass isn't train-specific like the saver fares. Late-planners pay the same price as early-planners for a rail pass.

• What if a refund is needed? Both the saver fares and the rail pass incur refund penalties - but the rail pass can be bought at the last minute, or even upon arrival in Germany - thus minimizing the need for a refund. With saver fares you'd have 3 fees and 3 refund transactions.

• Say you arrive in Munich at noon and want to do an outing to Herrenchiemsee Palace near Prien (an hour outside Munich) that afternoon. That's €30 more with a saver fare. But it's free with the rail pass.

• What if, 2 months after you buy your saver fares, you decide Frankfurt is out and Heidelberg is in? You now have a refund fee and some hassle. With a rail pass, you do nothing before you leave, and in Germany, you just catch any train you like to Heidelberg instead.

• Or what if you have your Hamburg-Frankfurt saver fare already, but you later decide you want to take a detour through the scenic Middle Rhine Valley and tour a castle? The saver fare destinations are the same but the route is invalid. With a rail pass, you just do it.

• Or what if you oversleep and miss your train to Munich, or decide to linger in Heidelberg for an additional day? Saver fare = refund fee and transaction, and repurchase a new ticket at a higher price or full fare. Rail pass = no problem. Just travel the same day or the next day to Munich on any train you like.

• Or what if you're in Munich for several days and you decide you want to leave Munich and visit an Austrian destination like Innsbruck, or take a crazy-long day trip over the Alps to Bolzano Italy? There's no day pass for those places, and a ticket at the last minute is expensive (maybe €250+ round trip to Bolzano for two!) or unavailable. But with a 5-day rail pass, rather than using a travel day as planned for a local day trip (like to Garmisch-Partenkirchen) you could use it to one of these foreign destinations instead (the GRP now includes many foreign destinations.) Then you could visit G-P on a local day pass another day (around €30 or less.)

As you can probably tell, I think the GRP is great insurance and offers great flexibility - and is worth some extra cash outlay in certain circumstances.

Hello All,
Thanks to everyone for your recommendations on train travel. It sure gave me a lot of food for thought and I feel like I now have a much better picture of what my possibilities are.
Jackie Toombs

Nearly all versions of Eurail brand passes now have an extra-day sale offer available for purchase before March 30 (nonrefundable). So that will change you price comparison. Look online tomorrow for the latest price revision, as well.

You can also get up to 20% off a German Rail Pass, specifically for spring travel completed by May 31. All offers have special purchase links, since regular, less restricted rates are also for sale. If you're not traveling until later, you may see other promotions come up before your trip.

But now that the pre-purchase period is six months

Well, that's the period for purchase at a ticket counter. For online tickets the official papmphlet, valid from 16 Dec 2016 still states:

»Fahrkarten ... können über www.bahn.de oder über die Buchungs-App frühestens drei Monate vor ihrem ersten Geltungstag erworben werden.«

https://www.bahn.de/p/view/home/agb/agb_fahrkarten.shtml

I can't imagine that large crowds will start now queuing up at ticket counters (if there is any at your station) just to get a long distance ticket six month before departure. Very few people will be able to plan their trips such a long time in advance.

"For online tickets the official papmphlet, valid from 16 Dec 2016 still states..."

Try it yourself. Frankfurt-Munich on July 30. You can buy that ticket today.

"I can't imagine that large crowds will start now queuing up at ticket counters (if there is any at your station) just to get a long distance ticket six month before departure."

Maybe not but they seem to be doing that exact thing online.

Check the ICE journeys, flex-priced at €103, all traveling the same exact route. Some are selling at €29/1, some at €39.90, some at €53.90, some at €89.90. That tells me tickets ARE being sold. The limited quantity of bottom-of-the-basement-priced tickets isn't public knowledge - it may take only a few sales before the price rises.

I always use a Pass, the Austro-German Pass, when it offers a bonus day, even better, in 2nd class. The activation period is now 11 months from date stamped on the Pass, then I have another 2 months to use all 11 days.