Tour of FRA

This is the link to Jo’s tour. https://youtu.be/R4KER4gPhYU

Ops, sorry, yes that is the link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4KER4gPhYU). I had it already copied to the clipboard; I just forgot to paste it to the posting. And yes, after listening to Jo multiple times, she does say Ator. That's our Jo.

The Skytrain has a wagon that is for those who are airside. The people are not mixed. Many people do not have visas to enter Germany but still need to get from Terminal 2 to Terminal 1 and vice versa. They have to have a way for this to happen easily and this takes care of it.
Thanks, Lee, for posting the link, and hope you enjoy the rest of the airport videos. There are more of them on their way.

So, Jo, if you use the SkyLine to go from the airside zone in one pier, say Z, to the airside zone another pier, say B, do you have to go through security when you get off of the SkyLine?

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkyLine
Having never ridden this airside, I can't be more helpful.
It is not useful going between gates though, only terminals. I do not believe it travels between gates Z and B. The one stop in terminal 1 is for gates A, B, C and Z.

I do not believe it travels between gates Z and B.

Oh yes, it does.

The SkyLine makes three stops in Termainal 1, on top of A/Z, on top of B, and on top of C (only for non-Schengen or airside). That's shown on your referenced website (Wikipedia) in the "Route" paragraphs and also in the table titled, "Bahnsteigkante für „Schengen“ und „Non-Schengen“ Passagiere."

The reason I asked about security is that I am (as always) looking for an angle, i.e., how to make a transfer as simple as possible. I want to avoid taking the time to go through security if I can help it. I know, from making the transfer landside, from B to D/E in 2000, that the landside terminals are outside the security zone, that is, you don't have to go through security to use the SkyLine landside. However, you will need to go through security to get to the gates in that pier.

So, say you arrive at the Z concourse (airside) and have a flight out to a Schengen destination from the B concourse. You can go through immigration at the Z concourse (to the A concourse) and go by either the SkyLine or walk to the B concourse, but then you have to go through security to the landside B gates. Or, you can take the Skyline from Z to B and get off at the airside B station and just go through immigration in B to get to the landside B gates. That avoids security unless you have to go through security to get out of the SkyLine and into the airside B zone.

Lee, the Skytrain does not make 3 stops at terminal 1.
They even announce it, please alight here for gates A, B, C, and Z.
I have been riding this Skytrain since it first began and I do not remember it ever going anywhere but those 2 stops, Terminal 1 and Terminal 2 and they always make everyone get off.

https://www.frankfurt-airport.com/en/flights-and-transfer/transferring-at-fra.html

This airport is constantly changing and growing, and is certainly very different now than it was in 2000.

Thanks for sharing this. The steady camera work is well done. Worth saving the link.

From the website Frankfurt-Airport.com:

CONNECTION BETWEEN TERMINALS

via SkyLine

If you have to change between areas A, B, C or Z (Terminal 1) and areas D or E (Terminal 2),
the signs will take you to the free SkyLine.

It leaves every 2-3 minutes, operation time 5:00 am until 11:00 pm.
Passengers can board and alight from the public area as well as from
the transit area. The stops are located in (my emphasis):

· Terminal 1, A/Z (transit area)
· Terminal 1, B/C (access via departure hall B on level 2)
· Terminal 2, D/E (access via Shopping Plaza on level 3)

There is also a stop above the C gates, which is only accessible to airside passengers. The SkyLine doesn't currently stop there; because of the virus, those gates are not being used.

Here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHkKR6CiBI4, is a much better view of the entire system with all four stations - D/E, C (which apparently was not being used when you recorded your video, B (which you used), and A/Z - shown. There is a little shuffling around at the beginning as the cars go from the arrival bay to the departure bay at D/E. There is no exit at the 2nd station, C concourse, because the recorder is in the public (landside) area and the station is only for airside. The 3rd station, on top of the B concourse, lists A, B, C, & Z because it leads to the departure hall where the check-in counters are for all three concourse. If you go to the station at A/Z, which is a ways out on the A/Z wing, you probably have to go through security at the station, then through the A concourse to its root and out of security to check in or to check a bag.

What I still don't know is whether you can go from the airside car of the SkyLine directly into the concourse, or if you have to go through security when you leave the car.

Jo Ator has a new video out where she goes by SkyLine from Terminal 2 (Concourse D and E) to Terminal 1 (Concourse B). Unfortunately, she gets off the train at the B station. Had she stayed on the train, she would have discovered that there is another station above the A/Z gates.

The map of the airport is accessible from this page on their website (download the "Terminal Map"). On Level 4. you will see all four of the SkyLine stations - D/E, C, B, and A/Z. The video I referenced in the previous post shows someone using the SkyLine before the C gates were closed, and you can see the SkyLine stopping at all four stations (although the doors for the Landside wagon don't open at C). You will also hear them announcing that all passengers going to Terminal 1 with luggage to check should get off at the B station, since it has direct access to the departure hall and the check-in counters.

Now, realistically, the other two SkyLine gates at Terminal 1 are of relatively lower usefulness for Landside (Public side) visitors. First, the station above the C gates, only serves the airside wagon of the SkyLine. That station was only opened in 2017, and, since the C gates are currently not being used, the SkyLine trains pass by it without stopping.

Second, going to the A station undoubtedly means going from the station, through security, into the A concourse, and then leaving the A concourse to anywhere else, like the departure halls, when you could just get off at B and go down the stairs into the hall.

However, for people arriving at an outside Schengen gate and departing from an outside Schengen gate in another concourse without a Schengen visa, the four airside stations (which are also outside Schengen, in the "transit zone") are essential to being able to get between concourses. There would be no way to get off the SkyLine at the B station and go over to the Z concourse without entering Schengen.

If there is no security between the airside SkyLine wagon and the airside gates of a concourse, someone arriving (for instance) on a flight from outside Schengen and going, with a short connection time, to an inside Schengen gate should stay in the transit zone until they get to their departure concourse and then go through imigration into the Schengen airside zone of that gate, thus avoiding the extra time of security.

So for someone arriving on Lufthansa from the US at a Z gate and departing for a Schengen zone airport from Concourse D, don't go through immigration from Z to A, then leave security to go to the departure hall and take the landside SkyLine to D, where you would have to go through security to get back to airside and your gate, just go up to the Skyline Z station and go to the airside D station, then enter Schengen in Terminal 2 and go to your D gate.

By the way, my original interest in the SkyLine was that it has both a public (outside security) zone and an "airside" (in this case, a non-Schengen) zone. I was hoping one could use this airside of the SkyLine to avoid security going between concourses for a change of flights. It seemed logical to me that if you went from a secure out-of-Schengen zone in one concourse to a car that you could not get out of until you arrived at a secure out-of-Schengen zone in another concourse that there would be no need to take the time to go through security.

No one (Jo) seemed to know if there was security going from the airside of a station to the concourse, so I wrote an email to the airport. They were kind of evasive about whether there would be security from the airside stations into the concourses, but they said to "count on it", whatever that means.

I imagine that there will be fewer people getting off the airside SkyLine car, so security should take less time.

So, anyway, if you were, say, arriving from the US into Concourse Z and going to a flight to a Schengen destination from, say, Concourse B, the fastest connection would be this. Don't go through immigration from Concourse Z to Concourse A, then try to get from Concourse A to Concourse B. That would require going out of security at Concourse A, going through Terminal 1 to Concourse B, then going back through general security into Concourse B.

Instead, take the SkyLine airside car from Concourse Z to the airside station at Concourse B. If you have to go through security at B it should be quicker into airside. Then go through immigration to the Schengen zone of B.

I would appreciate it if someone can offer more insight as to where security is and how long it takes.

Lee, I spoke with a friend who works in a restaurant that is airside in Terminal 1. He told me that the Skyline does not go to Z or A. It only has 2 stops, Terminal 1 and Terminal 2. That is it. It is not something you can use to stay airside and go from Z to B for example. This is what I thought anyway and tried to tell you, but he confirmed it.

I have had so much fun watching Frankfurt on Foot Tours videos. Of course, I am travel-starved, but even were I not, these are so informative on an area I am not super acquainted with - but hope to be. Thank you, Ms. Jo.

The SkyLine train is entirely outside the secure area. You always need to go through security afterwards, even if coming from the "airside" (i.e., non-Schengen) car.

So, Chris, if I were coming from outside Schengen, say from Terminal 2 (D/E concourses) and going to Concourse Z for a flight out to the US, and if I had no luggage to check, I could go to the A/Z station in Terminal 1 and go through security into the Z Concourse, right? You do acknowledge that there is an A/Z station in Terminal 1 for the SkyLine?

somebody pass the popcorn please

Lee, there is no A/Z station in Terminal 1. I just flew out of A, last week and looked all over for it. There are no signs, there is no station. There are only 2 stops on the SkyTrain, Terminal 1 and Terminal 2.
All the people on this forum that fly in and out of Frankfurt and not one of them has ever said they got on or off the SkyTrain at A or Z.

Lee, there is such a station. See https://www.frankfurt-airport.com/en/flights-and-transfer/transferring-at-fra.html

Thanks, Chris. Now all we have to do is convince Jo.

The existence of the A/Z SkyLine station is important because that would be the only way people transiting FRA from outside of Schengen to outside of Schengen could move, for example, from Terminal 2, Concourse D/E to Concourse Z, without entering Schengen, which would require a Schengen Visa. For someone going to/from a Schengen gate in B Concourse from/to a non-Schengen gate in Concourse Z, going from the B station to the A/Z station would avoid having to go through the departure hall and possibly bigger, more crowded security stations.

Admittedly, for someone coming to the airport by train or car, the easiest access to Concourses A, B, and Z is directly through the departure hall and security to the concourses. If you are coming from D/E and have luggage to recheck, getting off at the B station, even if you are headed eventually to A or Z, makes sense. And, of course, if you are coming from D/E and going to the train stations, B (A, B, C, Z) is the station you want.

But Jo, keep up the good work with the videos. For someone arriving and maybe transferring in a strange airport, it's reassuring to have a picture of where you will be going.

Well, I just arrived and departed from A, last week and this week and made videos of both of them that will be posted soon. Nowhere were there any signs or stations for the SkyTrain. If a station existed, wouldn't there be signs telling you where it was????

Even the link that Chris posted doesn't say that you can catch the Skytrain in A or Z. Seriously Lee, there are only 2 stations. Why do you keep insisting that a station exists here, when it doesn't. You have to walk to Hall B to catch it and all it does is go to Terminal 2.

Glad you like the videos though and hopefully, they will be helpful to those who have never been there.

Even the link that Chris posted doesn't say that you can catch the
Skytrain in A or Z.

Yes, it does. On the page Chris linked to, Transferring at FRA, scroll down to where is says, "Connection between terminals" and click on that link. The page expands to show Connection between Terminals; where it says "Via SkyLine" it says,

The stops are located in:

Terminal 1, A/Z (transit area)

Terminal 1, B/C (access via departure hall B on level 2)

Terminal 2, D/E (access via Shopping Plaza on level 3)

On the same page Chris linked to, near the bottom of the page, click on Orientation, and then on To the Airport Map at the bottom of the next page. Download the Terminal Map (PDF file). The top panel of the Terminal Map shows Level 4 of the Terminal, the SkyLine that runs across the roof of the Terminals, It shows a station for Terminal 2, D/E, then 3 stations for Terminal 1, labeled "C", "B", and "A/Z". The station for the C gates (airside only) is currently closed as they are not using the C gates. The SkyLine goes by that station without stopping (as shown on your video).

So apparently the entire Frankfurt Airport administration is part of my conspiracy to mislead you.

You are correct, Lee. I give up.
It is just hidden from all of the passengers though, so they can't find it. Including me, cause I was really, really looking for it. Not a single sign in A. Not in Departures or Arrivals. But, it must be there somewhere.

I think I found it using this page on Google Maps. It's a 360° panorama of the
Concourse A hallway between gates A15 and A16. Looking towards gate A14 and A15, towards the root of the A concourse, you can see an overhead sign pointing to B and elevators on the right with arrows pointing down, I believe to the tunnel to the B concourse. There is also an elevator going up to the Z gates, but somewhere you have to go through emigration to get to Z.

Looking the opposite direction, away from the concourse root, towards gates A16 and A17, there is also an overhead blue sign for C, D, E. I assume that points to the elevator to the A/Z station (on the roof) and the SkyLine to the B station (not mentioned because there is the tunnel), to the C station (currently closed), and to the station in Terminal 2 (D/E concourses).

Added: Also on Google Maps, if you look closely enough at the satellite view of the airport, you can trace the SkyLine tracks out of the D/E station (Terminal 2) along the roof to the the B station of Terminal 1, then continuing to that large white structure about 1/3 of the way out on the original A concourse. That's the A/Z station.

Jo, I posted this YouTube video before but you probably didn't look at it. It shows the SkyLine train going from Terminal 2 (D/E station) to Terminal 1 (A/Z station) with stops at the C and the B stations in Terminal 1. Note, the C station is not in use today because those gates are not in use. These are only airside gates, so the doors of the landside car didn't open when the train did stop there.

At the 3 min, 57 sec point of the video, as the train approaches the B station, the voice announces, "Visitors, as well as passengers with check-in luggage are requested to deboard the train at this station." Requested! Not required.

The counters for luggage check are directly below the B station. Also, I suspect, the A/Z station is sort of a dead end for non-passengers. There is probably access to only the A and to the Z concourses, for which you must have a boarding pass.

It would be pointless for a visitor to stay on the train to the A/Z station, but they could. For a passenger with a boarding pass coming from a landside (Schengen gate) of Terminal 2 to Concourse A, it would be faster to stay on the SkyLine another minute all the way to A (and go through security to the A concourse than it would be to deboard at B, go down the stairs to the departure hall, across the hall to the A concourse, then through the main security to the A gates.

For someone coming airside, without a Schengen visa, it would be the only way.

Now that we have agreed that all concourse are connected by the SkyLine, at least for changing planes, we can get back to my initial purpose (after noting Jo's fine video on FRA) for this thread.

Connecting at FRA seems to be a major anxiety for people on this forum. I did a search for "Frankfurt" and "connections", and I came up with almost 500 posts, most if not all stating that they had to make a connection at FRA in XX minutes and wondering if that was enough time.

Personally, although I have used the airport many times, I have only connected through FRA one time. That was in January, 2002 (4 months after 9-11). I was coming into Concourse A on a in-Schengen flight from Munich and leaving for the US from Concourse B. As I remember, I had 45 minutes for the connection. My Munich flight was on time, and I used the tunnel between A and B, and I made it. Because it was right after 9-11, I had, if I remember, three security checks on the way (might have been 2 plus immigration).

So what does all this mean for changing planes in Frankfurt?

I would say, the SkyLine is the best method of changing planes, particularly if time is tight. From end to end (D/E to A/Z), the SkyLine takes a little over 4 minutes. I don't think you could ever walk that fast between concourse by going out into the public areas.

If you are coming from an non-Schengen gate to a non-Schengen gate in another concourse, whether you have a Schengen visa or not, your fastest change is to use the SkyLine, and remain "airside", even when it means going through security to get into the new concourse.

The same is true going from a Schengen gate to another Schengen gate in a different concourse. You have to go through the same security getting to your departure gate either way, but the SkyLine should be a whole lot faster between concourses than walking, particularly if one of the gates is in Terminal 2.

Of course, the most favorable change would be if you are staying in the same concourse, but that never happens.

Coming from a non-Schengen gate to a Schengen gate, it seems like immigration always takes longer than emigration, particularly when several big jets arrived at the same time. I think I would use the immigration counter in the first concourse, unless it is really backed up and you are in a big hurry, then I would use the airside SkyLine car and take my chances at the outgoing concourse.

Going from Schengen to non-Schengen, I don't think it really matters. If you encounter emigration on the way to the SkyLine, take it.

The real time consumer is likely to be going between the Skyline and the gate, particularly in the A or Z concourse. The new part of the A/Z concourse is really long. I arrived once at the last Z gate (A69) and it seemed forever to get to the exit of the concourse. It's almost half a mile from the last gate to the root of the V at the entrance to the concourse where there is a emi/immigration counter, and the elevators to the station if nearby.

Anyway, that's my take on it. I would welcome anyone who has first hand experience with the "airside" of the Skyline, particularly as to the security conditions into the concourses, to contribute their knowledge.

Lee, you cannot walk between Terminal 1 and 2, unless you feel like walking down a highway. You need to take the shuttle or SkyTrain.

Still waiting to hear from anyone who has ridden the SkyTrain starting or ending at A/Z. As already noted, I could not find any signage in A, pointing to a station there. They all were directing me to the station at B.

Lee, the airport has changed so much since 2002, that perhaps you should stop referring to how things were here, 19 years ago?

I've spent the last few days scouring YouTube for videos that show how to transfer at FRA using the Sky Line. Unfortunately, too many people just walk around the airport shooting video without telling you where you are or what you are seeing. Gives me appreciation for Jo's videos. She does such a good job of telling you where you are and what you are seeing.

I did find one video of what may be an example of a really challenging change of planes in Frankfurt. This one doesn't even use the Sky Line. It's a change from Concourse Z to Concourse A - all in the same building. However, it's from, I think, Z69, last gate in the new wing of the Z concourse, to A38, way out on the end of the original A concouse. It's all walking, and using the distance measurement on Google Maps, it looks like it's almost a mile's walk between their arrival and departure gates.

For those of you who might not be familiar with the layout of the A/Z building, take a look at it on Google Maps. The building today is a giant 'V' shape, but in the 2000-2010 time period, it was just a single wing jutting out onto the tarmac at 45° to the front of Terminal 1. I can remember arriving at an A gate in that time period. The door leading from the Jetway to the waiting room was closed and we were directing down a level to what was either the basement or the ground level where we went through immigration (pass port control). From there, a hallway led out to the arrivals hall and on to the Bahnhöfe.

Since then, they have added a level above the A gates for non-Schengen arrivals. They use the same Jetways, but direct you up to the Z concourse, which is essentially a copy of the A concourse, just one level up. You don't have to go through immigration to get onto the Z concourse; you are still outside Schengen. If you have a non-Schengen flight departing from the Z concourse, you can just stay on it without ever going through immigration or needing a visa.

I don't think the Z concourse was there when I arrived in Frankfurt in 2008. Since then they have built a new wing, with the same (almost) two level A/Z configuration. So, if you arrive on Z and are flying out of A for a Schengen destination or leaving the airport, you go through immigration at the root of the V to get to the A gates.

So here is the video. The couple is arriving from Bangkok, Thailand, and they deplane at the Z69 gate, which is the farthest gate from the base of the 'V' as you can get in that wing. They walk nearly a half mile (8/10 km) to the base of the V, where they go through security and immigration to get to the A level. They then walk another half mile to gate A38.

The run time of the video is 21:50, but they turn off the camera going through security and immigration, so it probably took a little longer than 22 minutes.

At 13:31 of the video, just after they pass gate A-15, they pass under a blue sign that says 'B' with an arrow to the left. The sign doesn't say anything about a tunnel, but I believe that is where you can access the tunnel to Concourse B.

The sign also indicates that gates A 16-40 and D, E are straight ahead.

At 13:53, you see another overhead blue sign the indicates gates A 16-40 are still straight ahead, but D, E is to the right, and at 13:58 you see a sign on the right, parallel to the concourse, for D, E. I believe that is showing the access, on the right, to the Sky Line station upstairs, from which you can go to Terminal 2.

Still waiting to hear from anyone who has ridden the SkyTrain starting
or ending at A/Z. As already noted, I could not find any signage in A,
pointing to a station there. They all were directing me to the station at B.

Sorry, somehow I didn't get the link included in the previous post, but here it is. Look at the overhead signs at around the 13-14 minute time. The sign for concourses D,E doesn't say that it is for the Sky Link, but the sign for B doesn't say it is for the tunnel, either.

There are zero signs pointing to a SkyTrain station location in A/Z in that video.

There are zero signs pointing to a SkyTrain station location in A/Z in
that video.

I think you are right about that. On Google Maps you can see the A/Z Sky Line station on the roof of A/Z, between gates A14/A15 (or Z gate) and A16/A17. In that same area, in the hallway, there are no signs to the Sky Line, only signs for concourses C, D, & E. The quickest way you can get to those concourses is with the Sky Line train.

In your video of going up the "A, B, C, Z" station over Concourse B, there are also not any signs to the Sky Line explicitly, only signs to D, E. Admittedly, I also did not see any signs to A/Z on your way up to the B station, but the Sky Line link to A/Z has only been added in the last 10-15 years, so maybe they haven't gotten around to changing the signs. Or maybe they want you to go to A via the departure hall.

In the B station, on the side where the train from D, E unloads, there is an overhead sign saying to goes to A/Z.

You are correct, since they tell you on the website to take the Sky Line, it should say "Sky Line" on the directional signs, but, all over the airport, they only specify the concourses accessible from that location.