Tips on Black Forest please

We visited the Black Forest in 2019 and spent one night in Baden Baden and then used Freiburg as a base for three more nights. We had enough time to visit Triberg and Titisee as well as do a walk around Feldberg (the highest peak in the Black Forest- you can take a cable car to the top to start the walk- really beautiful views). I enjoyed Freiburg a lot, both for the location and the scenery/restaurants/etc. I will note we did hire a car on this trip so I don't know how to get between these places on public transport so will let others advise on that. Good luck with your planning!

My suggestion would be to base yourself in Gengenbach in the Black Forest. I stayed here for 4 nights in 2022 and absolutely loved it. The town is very charming with beautiful half-timbered houses (it's frequently called a "chocolate box" village) and has a beautiful Altstadt, with quite a few restaurants and cafes to choose from. Gengenbach makes a good base as it is right on the main train line, and gives you the options of some interesting day trips. For example, Strasbourg, France is only a quick 40 minute train ride from Gengenbach..

I'm glad you are familiar with the KONUS card, which entitles you to free public transport throughout many parts of the Black Forest region. There are many charming villages in the region that you can visit along the Black Forest Railway, and there is also the Vogtsbauernhof (open-air museum) that is a joy to visit and easily accessible by train. Just keep in mind that Freiburg does not participate in the KONUS plan. So if you did stay in Freiburg, you would not be able to get free train travel outside of the city.

The town church (Saint Marion) is quite beautiful, and the medieval gates to the city are really interesting. The Benedictine Abbey is also worth a visit, and behind it are some cloistered gardens that were a joy to wander through. This was one of my favorite places. It was peaceful and inviting and I could have stayed for hours. There were little signs of inspiration scattered around, and some children from a nearby kindergarten playing on one side.

Also don't miss a walk through Engelgasse and Höllengasse streets (near the TIC). Here you will find cobblestones and half-timbered houses, flower pots and cats resting on doormats and quaint dolls in the window. I felt like I had walked back in time when I strolled through these quaint and narrow streets. There is also a nice hike you can take that will get you above the town with some absolutely beautiful views of below. The hike ends up at a church called St. Jakob auf dem Bergle that sits above town. The TIC in town will have maps showing you how to get there. it was a really nice hike and as I said, the views are just lovely.

I'm deciding between 3-5 nights, any insight on what's a good amount of time?

Split the difference and stay four nights. 😊 That's how long I stayed, and I thought it was a good amount of time. But of course you can't go wrong with staying there five nights. Definitely at least four, though.

I read Gengenbach is beautiful, but Freiburg might be a more central base since we're heading to Switzerland after and we'd be near the train station?

Gengenbach is a good base for outings to many places in the Black Forest - Triberg, the Black Forest open-air museum, Schiltach, Villingen, Haslach, and other towns as well as to Strasbourg, FR. You can also get to Freiburg (a nice city to visit) in around one hour.

Freiburg is a good base for outings to Titisee/Schluchsee/Hinterzarten. It takes longer to get to Titisee from Gengenbach but that is possible in a day.

Freiburg and Gengenbach both have train stations. You can leave from any train station you like to travel into Switzerland. Freiburg is closer to Switzerland, of course, so from a Gengenbach base to Switzerland you will have around one additional hour of travel. But with the KONUS card, that G'bach > Freiburg trip (and other outings by train) is free of charge. If you were to base in Freiburg, you would need to pay for your outings; the KONUS card is not available in Freiburg.

Baden-Baden is a weaker base town for train outings into the Black Forest because of the distance from station to station as well as the distance from the town itself to the Baden-Baden station. It would not be on my list of suggested options.

There are other places you can stay besides these two places, of course. A few years ago we spent 5 nights in Steinach, a few stops further into the Black Forest from Gengenbach, at a family-run farm (Bauernhof Schoener) which offers a 2-bedroom apartment that overlooks an orchard and pasture area. It was a short walk to the train station for our train outings with the KONUS card (which is offered to guests in Steinach.)

https://www.traum-ferienwohnungen.de/13558/

There are roughly 140 towns that offer the KONUS card. Those towns are listed on the green/white chart in the flyer below:

https://www.dreisamtal.de/_Resources/Persistent/ee8509e131aa5b4f53135d921f3338c37a357c1b/7697983_KONUS_Flyer_GB_2023-Internet.pdf

Kids:

I imagine most kids would enjoy the summer bobsled in Gutach.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g1825958-d2657528-Reviews-Sommerrodelbahn_Gutach-Gutach_im_Schwarzwald_Baden_Wurttemberg.html

Nearby is also this unusual "Park of the Senses"

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g1825958-d3305544-Reviews-Park_mit_Allen_Sinnen-Gutach_im_Schwarzwald_Baden_Wurttemberg.html

Haslach, nearby and also on the Black Forest Railway, has a good looking water-park:

https://www.stadtwerke-haslach.de/de/freibad/

Thank you so much for the great recommendations! I really appreciate it.

For the black forest area in August, is air conditioning something I should be on the lookout for? I was guided to make sure I had it in Paris so before I start looking at rentals, I'm wondering if it's a necessary here too.

If you don’t go to Europa Park, then I certainly recommend the alpine coaster in Gutach that Russ recommends. It’s a fun ride that you can go on multiple times if you want since it is inexpensive. I think it is a 6 ride pass that I get. My wife rides twice and I will do it 4 times. Costs about as much as one ride in the U.S. It is a short walk from the Vogtsbauernhof open air museum.

In Gengenbach I love the Narren Museum which has plenty examples of the outlandish costumes that are worn during Fasend ( Mardi gras ). Only open a few days per week, minimal entry fee.

Triberg and Titisee are nice

For Europa park Freiberg makes more sense as a base. I think the kids would have more fun around Bodensee than the Black Forest. But in August everything down there is going to be swamped. It's prime European vacation time. If you use the train don't be afraid to just get off at any town that looks good. You'll have no trouble catching another once you're done exploring.

As far as AC goes, you may or may not need it. In July 2006, my first time in the Black Forest, it was so so hot, and I live in a hot climate. I never considered AC and we didn’t have any in our hotel in Freiburg or the farmhouse apartment in Sankt Peter. It was miserable and it was hard to sleep. I would suggest that it’s better to have it and not need it than the other way around.

I agree with a previous response that Baden Baden is not a good base. I went there a couple of years ago while based in Strasbourg on a Christmas Market trip. The train station is far from the old town and required taking a bus. After a few hours we took the train to Gengenbach and I loved it. I will likely be back in the Black Forest in June and will probably divide the time between Freiburg and Gengenbach so we can stay in both.

On the 2006 trip we went to Titisee and rented paddle boats to get out on the water. They had other rental options as well. Some in our party hiked around the lake. It was a nice visit. I’m not sure how easy it is traveling by train because we had a car.

Just on the AC issue - I would recommend it. I am German and do not have one, and that is fine most of the year, but the only time I miss it is is when a heatwave strikes in July or August. Add into this that Freiburg is probably the warmest city in all of Germany, and I wouldn’t risk my vacation ruined just because of that.

There is a small ( free ) zoo at the park in Gengenbach and a miniature golf course ( I haven’t played there )

Ok thanks! I will look for a place with AC. I'm looking on AirBnB and finding very limited accomodations, is there another rental website that is more commonly used in Germany?

You could try booking.com, I assume it is more common.
I assume that finding an apartment with AC will be more tricky than a hotel btw. And it might be less necessary in Gengenbach than Freiburg (the more mountains, the cooler - can easily be 5-10 Fahrenheit). But Freiburg is much larger and it will be easier there.

Yes once I put the "AC" as an amenity, my options went from 8 to 0, ha. In Gengenbach. But maybe not necessary there? That's good to know. I've e-mailed a few hotels near the Gengenbach train station to see if they could fit our family.

Freiburg sounds like a nice option, but we would be using the train and the KONUS is a nice perk. Why isn't it offered there, just curious?

You mean AC? It is rather unusual in Germany outside of more modern and bigger hotels or very modern apartments - and Gengenbach is small and a bit more traditional. Normally, it is hot enough to justify AC only about 2-4 weeks at most in Germany anyway, and it is considered bad for your health by many (causing sore throat etc.).
I will say though that I guess indeed you might not need it in Gengenbach the same way you would in Freiburg or the river plane of the Rhine - that can get very warm, but mountains help a lot and quickly.

Ok thanks! I will look for a place with AC. I'm looking on AirBnB and finding very limited accomodations, is there another rental website that is more commonly used in Germany?

I agree that you should check Booking.com. You can also check the individual websites of each town you want to stay in. Every town and city has its own website, and it's usually the city name followed by.de. Usually. Sometimes not. For example, if you are looking for Gengenbach, you would go to https://www.stadt-gengenbach.de - however, Freiburg is at www.freiburg.de.

Once you're there, come on, look for the Tourist or Tourismus link, and head there. Gengenbach is a little tricky, as you have to leave the site to go to another one, so I'm just going to give you the link here: https://www.mittlererschwarzwald.de/uebernachten

Übernachten means "overnight" so that's where you would look for overnight accommodations. And Ferienwohnung means holiday apartment. They will list rooms that people rent out, or whole apartments or houses, and possibly some hotels as well. Keep in mind that it's in German so you will need to use Google Translate to get you through it, unless you speak German.

Freiburg is a bit easier and you can they have an English option there. Again just go to the website I listed above, click on Culture and Tourism, then scroll all the way down to the bottom where you will see "Overnight Stay in Freiburg."

Freiburg sounds like a nice option, but we would be using the train and the KONUS is a nice perk. Why isn't it offered there, just curious?

I'm not sure, although Russ might know. That said, I would imagine it's because they chose not to participate as they have their own transportation pass. Of course you have to pay for theirs, whereas the KONUS pass is free.

I forgot to include this.

With regards to hotels, I stayed at the Stadthotel Pfeffermühle, which was a really nice hotel (with very large rooms) in the town center. I loved my stay here. The staff was extremely pleasant and helpful and it's in a lovely location. The breakfast was wonderful and was included in the price. It was 2 kilometers from the train station which is easily walkable. I would very much recommend it and would definitely stay there again. . https://pfeffermuehle-gengenbach.de

If you want to see photos of it and photos of the town, here is a link to my personal blog that shows my first day in Gengenbach. https://mostlytraveled.wordpress.com/2022/05/04/day-10-gengenbach-and-the-black-forest/

Thank you very much! That's great, I'll look for accommodations there.

Any idea how much the train pass is in Freiburg? I will look but figured I'd ask. If we can't find a place to stay in gengenbach then I'll branch out and likely look in Freiburg next based on proximity to our next stop in Switzerland.

Mardee, your photos look lovely!

Oh, thank you so much! That's very kind of you to say.

Here is a link to the Freiburg page that discusses their various passes and tickets. https://www.rvf.de/en/

I think the adult welcome pass (which most tourists get) is 27 euros for three days of travel, and for the kids it's 16 euros per child.

www.gengenbach.info is the website to use for Gengenbach. It lists all the available accomodations. The apartment I stay in would probably be cool enough because it is a semi basement but it is only for 2.

Any idea how much the train pass is in Freiburg?

If you refer to the KONUS Card which offers free travel from Gengenbach + other towns, it is not available in Freiburg, not at any price. It is only available if you stay in one of the participating towns, all of which are listed on the link I provided previously. Here it is again:

https://www.dreisamtal.de/_Resources/Persistent/ee8509e131aa5b4f53135d921f3338c37a357c1b/7697983_KONUS_Flyer_GB_2023-Internet.pdf

Instead of booking so far south, I'd look around closer to Gengenbach. I did that myself (without dates) at booking.com on your behalf and found options for 5 persons in Offenburg, just a few miles from Gengenbach.

I also checked out some Black Forest tourism websites. Haslach - a very nice town just 12 minutes from Gengenbach on the scenic Black Forest Railway - turned up at the official tourist office page of listings. Haslach is very close to the places you said you wished to visit - closer than Gengenbach - and it's also a KONUS town. It looks like an option that might work for you quite nicely:

https://www.schwarzwald-kinzigtal.info/kinzigtal/ukv/house/Haus-zum-Hobel-Haslach-im-Kinzigtal-FIT00020070044085093

This place has two apartments - the "Zirbe" (which translates to Stone Pine or Swiss Pine) apartment has 3 bedrooms and accommodates 6. Washing machine included. Services include pick up from the train station (if you want it, for a fee I imagine) as well as bike rentals. The site has multiple photos and you can translate the text using your browser for further information. Minimum stay is 4 nights. The availability calender for August is nearly wide open. The location is convenient to the town center and the railway station on foot. Haslach is only 26 train minutes from Triberg, and also near the Black Forest Open Air Museum in Gutach.** Take the train to Hausach (5 minutes) and walk to the Museum and to the summer bobsled.

The homepage: https://www.haus-zum-hobel.de/ferienwohnung-zirbe/

This page, at a commercial site I am familiar with, has reviews you can translate:

https://www.traum-ferienwohnungen.de/51817/#bewertungen

I'd use the email adddress at the "Kontakt" at the home page to make an inquiry or a reservation. I am guessing there is no deposit required since the only payment method mentioned is cash. This is exactly the old-school-Black-Forest way that I have booked previously in the Black Forest at small private inns and apartments - send your personal contact information via email and request reservation for the dates you want, no deposit, show up with cash in hand for the amount agreed upon in the email. Such reservations are not necessarily refundable - German law is "if you book, you pay", unless a specific cancellation/refund policy is in place. So I would be sure to ask about their policy on this in my inquiry.

When we were in Haslach, the traditional costume museum was closed. But we did make it to the WW II work-camp memorial site. There is also a mine just outside town that you can visit.

Any idea how much the train pass is in Freiburg?

If you refer to the KONUS Card which offers free travel from Gengenbach + other towns, it is not available in Freiburg, not at any price

Russ, I believe they are referring to the Welcome Pass that Freiburg offers. It's a three-day transportation pass, but you have to pay for it; hence the question.

There are lots of travel pass options for purchase... The RVF Welcome Cards, if these are the topic, are individual travel passes solely for the area surrounding Freiburg area, not for travel throughout the Black Forest. Triberg, the Gutach museum, Gengenbach would not be accessible with these cards Cost is €27/adult, €16/kid. It will get you to Titisee.

Details here: https://www.rvf.de/fileadmin/user_upload/fahrkarten/prospekte/rvf_25_flyer_welcomekarte_e_f_web.pdf

Triberg is really nice. You may want to look there for a place to stay. They may have AC in locations. I know the Marriott Courtyard in Freiberg has AC. I use the Deutschland ticket so the KONUS is, for me, irrelevant.

Russ I appreciate the detailed response! Yes I was referring to the 3-day pass, not KONUS, as someone mentioned. But it was also linked above so I'm all set there.

The reason I wasn't venturing far away from the town's train station is because we won't have a car. Walking 2km+ each way from our rental to get to the train station would be fine for just hubby and me, but with 3 kids it is not ideal. I'd rather stay right near a train station, if possible, so we can easily get around without a car. Some walking is of course no problem, but we plan to hike during our outings, so a long walk back to the rental at the end of the day is best avoided. Are there buses/trams or something else that would bring us from the train station to a rental further out of town? Or are Ubers a possibility there and that would be the option?

It's hard to grasp when we've never been, so I'm doing my best to gather all intel to make our trip as seamless as possible, knowing we will hit bumps along the way.

Also I appreciate the rental listings and will look further into those this weekend.

Triberg looks beautiful too, thanks for the recommendation.

This forum is infinitely helpful and I am grateful for all of the tips and feedback!

Are there buses/trams or something else that would bring us from the train station to a rental further out of town? Or are Ubers a possibility there and that would be the option?

It depends. But many larger towns and ciites will have taxis or possibly rideshare (Freiburg has Uber available).

I don't think Gengenbach has Uber. but when I was there and had just arrived, I was loaded with luggage and just didn't feel like walking the two kilometers to my hotel, so was able to flag a taxi to take me to my hotel.

Here's a link that will let you see what places do have Uber in the Black Forest: https://www.uber.com/global/en/r/germany/cities/

Ok that's good to know, thanks Mardee. P.S. how do you quote a previous post to respond to it? I haven't noticed an option to do that.

Is anyone familiar with Schwarzwaldhotel Gengenbach? It looks like they have suites and apartments that would fit us, AC, breakfast and even a pool. 10 min walk to the train station as well. Any experience here?

P.S. how do you quote a previous post to respond to it? I haven't noticed an option to do that.

Just highlight the text that you want to quote, click "copy", then hit "Reply". Once the new text box opens, click on the little black quote icon right above the text box (to the right of the globe icon). A horizontal arrow will appear along with a shaded text box saying "Blockquote". Highlight the shaded text box and click "Paste," Your copied text will appear in "quote" form.

Hopefully that makes sense. Let me know if it doesn't. 😊 You can find information about formatting in this article: https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/about-the-travel-forum

With regards to the hotel, I'm not familiar with it, but it has good reviews on Google and Booking.com.

The reason I wasn't venturing far away from the town's train
station...

Of course. I use the trains exclusively, so I always stay near the staion too. I don't like long walks or additional bus rides either.

My suggestion, if you cannot find something that is right for you near the station in Gengenbach, was to stay in a different NEARBY town, not in Freiburg (which IMHO is too far away for your needs.) And this is why I then suggested HASLACH, which is close to Gengenbach and does have a train station.

I have not stayed at the Schwarzwaldhotel Gengenbach. I'd inquire about the suite/apartment facilities prior to booking (kitchen or kitchenette, washer/dryer, etc. can be super-handy for family travel, IME.)

Here's a nifty schematic showing the relative proximity of the small towns on the Black Forest Railway, with Haslach situated in between Gengenbach and Triberg:

https://regional.bahn.de/regionen/baden-wuerttemberg/ueb/ueber-uns/swb_index/swb_fahrplan_strecke

Are there buses/trams or something else that would bring us from the train station to a rental further out of town?

Yes. Line 7130 runs all around Gengenbach picking up passengers who don't wish to walk to the station. #7134 and #2 also have stops in town and will get you to Offenburg and to other towns. You may have a walk of some kind to reach the closest stop of course.

Here is a transportation map of the area. zoom in on Gengenbach to see the bus and train lines.

https://www.ortenaulinie.de/site/Ortenaulinie-2022/get/documents_E-1342503259/ortenaulinie/Dateien/Download/liniennetzplan_tgo_06-2025.pdf

The DB site has all kinds of information... If you find a distant apartment somewhere, in the "From" box, just enter "Gengenbach," then the address of the apartment. Then enter any destination you like - Triberg, for example. The site will then show you a bus connection to the station and the train that takes you to Triberg too. AND - it will show you the walking route from your apartment to the bus stop and tell you the distance and minutes required - AND it will give you a map for this walk.

https://int.bahn.de/en/

Again, if you're in Gengenbach or Haslach, all your buses and trains will be free with the KONUS card. That said, it will save you some time to stay off the buses if possible.

BTW... Here's a walking tour that shows off Haslach. Some streets are for pedestrians and the cars of residents only:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLNIwz5Ed4I

I didn't start this thread, but thanks for everyone who's been contributing! My family and I are headed to the Black Forest this summer and are looking to stay in Gengenbach as well. One thing I've noticed, though, is that the KONUS card isn't necessarily offered by all hosts. I'm looking at FeWos as well as hotels, and some of the hosts don't include the KONUS card with the accommodation. I asked one of them specifically, and they confirmed it wasn't included. Is there a way to get the card is your host doesn't offer it? Thanks again!

@s.vierra:

There is one exemption named in the 2025 flyer for participating towns:

"Manche Betriebsarten sind von der Kurtaxe befreit und die
KONUS-Gästekarte kann von diesen Betrieben nicht ausgestellt
werden."

In English, some categories of accommodations do not offer the KONUS card because are exempted from the KONUS tax the that the local government demands from them to fund the KONUS perk. (This tax, normally a couple Euros per guest, is tacked onto the guest's bill, btw. So the KONUS card isn't exactly a complete freebie - just almost.) So the question is, "exactly which categories do not issue it??" Previous flyers have provided examples in the text (youth hostels and clinics were named in the 2023 flyer.) So perhaps your host-example belongs in one of those categories.

OR... I have been using KONUS for many years... long ago I ran into one B&B operator in Bad Liebenzell (a KONUS town) who turned me down; he told me I had to see the TI office about it and pay my tax there. The TI office clerk shook her head and said my host was confused and needed some talking to - it was HIS job to pay the tax and charge me for it. So the clerk DID let me pay the tax and issued me the KONUS card in this circumstance. Maybe you just ran into a confused or renegade host. But the rule has always been that B&Bs, FeWos, hotels, ALL the normal accommodations, handle this job in-house.

(Anyway, it's not an economic burden for the host since he can pass the fee on to you. It's just a bureaucratic duty that some hosts probably do not cotton to.)

OR... Individual local governmental bodies are the ones who determine whether the KONUS promotion is in place or not in any given municipality. It is possible. but unlikely, that Gengenbach's local government has opted out of the KONUS promotion.

I would definitely look into the availability of KONUS at any of the places you are considering, just as you are doing - but make a point of ASKING, as you did, even if their website has a KONUS card note somewhere. I am doubtful you will get any more "no's" unless the whole town has actually opted out for 2026. The current KONUS flyer online does not show the year - but Gengenbach is on this list with 148 other towns.

Just highlight the text that you want to quote, click "copy", then hit "Reply". Once the new text box opens, click on the little black quote icon right above the text box (to the right of the globe icon). A horizontal arrow will appear along with a shaded text box saying "Blockquote". Highlight the shaded text box and click "Paste," Your copied text will appear in "quote" form.

Hopefully that makes sense. Let me know if it doesn't. 😊 You can find information about formatting in this article: https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/about-the-travel-forum

With regards to the hotel, I'm not familiar with it, but it has good reviews on Google and Booking.com.

Blockquote

Testing it out Mardee, thanks for the explanation!

Oop, not quite, but I do see the quote box now so thanks! :)

And good tip to double check that the host offers KONUS. A definite perk of staying in Gengenbach

Of course. I use the trains exclusively, so I always stay near the staion too. I don't like long walks or additional bus rides either.

Russ that makes sense and I've re-read your post now from my laptop and I see what you meant. Thanks a lot!

With regards to the quote in, another way to do it is just copy and paste the text that you want to quote. Then put the horizontal arrow in front of it and a space. Like this below.

> This is a blockquote.

You can even do a double quote, for example, if you want to quote one person's comments, then add the reply to it. Just add an extra symbol.

> This is a blockquote.

>> This is the reply to a blockquote.

Oh, one other thing. I see what you did. If you have two paragraphs that you want to quote, generally the markdown symbol will only include the first paragraph.

You either have to add the second paragraph to the first paragraph without any spaces, or add another symbol in front of it, like you did with the first paragraph.

> Oh, one other thing. I see what you did. If you have two paragraphs that you want to quote, generally the markdown symbol will only include the first paragraph. You either have to add the second paragraph to the first paragraph without any spaces, or add another symbol in front of it, like you did with the first paragraph.

OR

> Oh, one other thing. I see what you did. If you have two paragraphs that you want to quote, generally the markdown symbol will only include the first paragraph.

> You either have to add the second paragraph to the first paragraph without any spaces, or add another symbol in front of it, like you did with the first paragraph.

Russ, thank you for the additional information and thoughts on my Gengenbach-KONUS Karte question. I don't think the town's opted out, as the hotel and at least one of the FeWo's I'm considering offer it. Given that the host passes the cost along to the guest, I don't understand why this particular host that I contacted doesn't. They aren't really new; they have several properties and, judging from reviews, they've been in business in Gengenbach for a few years at least. Hmm. I wonder if they'd be willing to get the KONUS Karten for us if I ask for it specifically. We'll see. Thanks again for your help!

Thank you Mardee! I think I might've gotten it now :)

This place has two apartments - the "Zirbe" (which translates to Stone Pine or Swiss Pine) apartment has 3 bedrooms and accommodates 6. Washing machine included. Services include pick up from the train station (if you want it, for a fee I imagine) as well as bike rentals. The site has multiple photos and you can translate the text using your browser for further information. Minimum stay is 4 nights. The availability calender for August is nearly wide open. The location is convenient to the town center and the railway station on foot. Haslach is only 26 train minutes from Triberg, and also near the Black Forest Open Air Museum in Gutach.** Take the train to Hausach (5 minutes) and walk to the Museum and to the summer bobsled.

Russ, this place looks great! No AC though. Is the general consensus that we would be ok in August in Haslach, or will it be quite warm with trouble sleeping? Seems like most above recommend AC. We are ok in heat, but the humidity is what's hard to find comfort to sleep in if there's no relief.

I've e-mailed the landlord to ask about AC and I'm deciding between that rental Russ kindly recommended in Haslach and the Schwarzwald hotel in Gengenbach. I've e-mailed them for a quote as well. Thanking you all kindly for your help and I'm happy to report back once I decide if it will help others to share price/AC info.