Attack at Christmas Market

The horrible news from Germany last night is a reminder, that its not always a perfectly safe world. I noticed the concrete barriers around a couple of the Christmas Markets in Budapest and thought to myself, “a little overdoing it guys,” but now I get it.

I got curious so I googled for similar incidents in the past, yes a few, but mostly a lot of stories of attempts foiled before they could happen. So authorities do a good job and as a result travel remains “safe”. Be happy when you see the barriers and the beat cops in the crowds. Its the city or country showing you respect and that you can relax and enjoy. The trick is how to put things in perspective so you can enjoy the holidays, enjoy your trip and still have some awareness without it weighing too heavily on your mind. Lots of luck.

The US State Department tries to provide some guidance. But it’s pretty much an impossible task without offending someone or guessing too low or too high. But it’s something. Level 2 in Europe (in mid-October): Albania, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, Kosovo, Moldova, Netherlands, Serbia, Spain, Sweden. Check for updates: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories.html/
And the UK version: https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice
And Australia: https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/destinations
And Canada: https://travel.gc.ca/travelling/advisories
And a private source: https://crisis24.garda.com/

Oh my. So very sorry for the dead, their families and all those at the market. Hopefully no forum participants were there either.

That is horrible! Adults & their families are just trying to enjoy the festivities & beauty of the holidays.

The issue is declaring the motivation before announced by the police who are investigating.

agree with Elizabeth

The OP just related the title on the article, so while maybe he should have injected some opinion on the article or a more professional article, I dont hold anything against the OP. The news service on the otherhand should be ashamed to spread unsupported opinions as fact. That does impact travel (our context here by the rules) because people might get the impression that terrorism is back in a big way which is a world of difference from a nut case with a car. Which is it? We wait to find out the truth.

Definitely travel related as anything that might affect a tourist is travel related. Similar to posts about the flooding in Valencia in October. It might have some effect on travel. If this Christmas market is closed for a few days, it might have some effect on anyone planning to visit. However, a posting about where to buy bitcoin or get a fake drivers license is not travel related.

As for the headline, it could have read simply "Christmas Market Attack" or 'Car Drives into Christmas Market." However, in this case, the OP was just following what the linked website stated.

Travel related- the market is closed and will not re-open this year, and all cultural events in Magdeburg are cancelled until Christmas.

Doubtless security will be enhanced at markets across Germany, and probably beyond. Sadly there is a finite limit to how safe such events can be, in the face of someone determined, no matter what the motive.

The market apparently was protected by concrete barriers (according to the BBC) but the attacker reportedly found the one gap in those barriers large enough for a vehicle.

A memorial service is to be held in Magdeburg Cathedral at 7pm tonight for the 5 (at the time of writing, 1114 GMT ) casualties of this terrible event. A figure which may rise due to the severity of some of the injuries.

And yes, the OP just repeated what was reported by the Greek press. The OP is not at fault here, and IMO this is an entirely legitimate thread.

Maybe we all take a moment and learn from this and be a tad more careful when we post information. Make it a goal to try and be as accurate and fair as possible.

Of course an attack like this is travel related.
Many of our forum members are traveling through Germany and France, visiting Christmas markets.
In 2016 it was Berlin that was attacked, in 2018, it was Strassbourg.

Many, many people were injured. The German news has reported 5 killed and 200 injured. It is horribly sad.

It is ALWAYS an act of terror. To call it anything else is being naive.

Walk around many Christmas markets, see the bollards and blockades, check the police presences and security, notice the loud speakers in the main squares, see how many streets are closed off to cars. There is a reason for this. They are trying to prevent attacks like what happened last night.

According to DW, the Magdeburg Christmas Market will remain closed and will not reopen this year.

All other Christmas Markets in Germany will hold a minute of silence at 1900 hours local time this evening.

DW also reported that all open Christmas markets will see a higher police presence.

Still not travel related imo - with all due respect for the desire of some to condole.

That this can happen is latest known since Berlin. Solingen was a reminder a few months ago.

Fact that market will stay closed seems like a non relevant information for travelers because healthy-minded tourists normally stay away from freshly attacked places. Crime tourists act differently.

I think that this forum neither shall be there for disaster or crime tourism nor to give attackers a platform that their act was relevant or gets attention.

A travel related news would be that most of the other around 2,000 markets per year will remain open until official end - some with, others without increased security measures.

Still no evidence by authorities for headline "terrorist" until now. Attacks against public places are not automatically defined as "terror" - question of context and motiv. A different category is "amok" for example. Authorities examine and decide on category. Ms. Jo and all others, feel free to experience it as terror or worse but your feeling is ALWAYS your feeling only.

There is no need to spread artificial panic by using wording "terrorist" in headline. This behaviour might only support the next offenders in their mindset.

If a RS type were in the area there is a chance he could have seen the first post before he translated or deciphered German language news broadcasts. Those in the forum that had the town on their future route might have become informed to go look for the facts on the subject and consider the options. Those who don’t even have Germany on their radar might be better informed for their decision making in general and for context. Those that are going to Christmas Markets in other cities and other countries might find comfort in the police presence and appreciate the barricades and understand why.

The forum is great but there is a lot of personal bias in the posts (mine included). I remember not too long ago when a post was meant to cause concern with going to Bosnia vs Germany. That was good, because it provided the opportunity for me to learn that both are Level 2 but for different reasons. And who would have imagined that France, Italy and Germany were considered equally as risky as Albania by the US State Department? But why? Hopefully the readers asked, researched, and became better informed travelers (Then went to all 5 countries and had a blast). The idea of the RS forum, in part at least, is to make our RS family better travelers (or tourists) and no amount of factual information that contributes to that goal is inappropriate.

EDIT: and we have a very good, very fair, very objective and forward thinking moderator who always checks on these things.

I think Mr. E. has nailed it about visitors and foreign languages.

A few years ago, I was in Tel Aviv when there was a terrorist attack. It was in the evening and my hotel was less than two miles from the attack. I could hear lots of vehicle sirens and had no idea what was going on. (And Israel is the kind of place you want to know what's going on.)

There was no English news on TV. So, I started searching the internet and found a live English language TV station.

Had I not heard the sirens, I would have never known what happened.

It's also the same when I travel in Europe. I'm not listening to local news. So if there is a closure or problem, the only way I would find out is on the internet and perhaps a mention on a travel board.

We're alerted to strikes and natural disasters, why not to a deadly incident like this. It could definitely help someone doing travel planning in the area.

If Frank II and I agree, then it's true. So true we can close the thread. LOL!

Magdeburg Cathedral is closed to visitors all weekend as a mark of respect.

This from the Cathedral website (which I was just looking at out of interest (and in ordinary times it looks to be an interesting Church to visit)- https://www.european-traveler.com/germany/visit-the-dom-zu-magdeburg-the-oldest-gothic-cathedral-in-germany/

(keeping this thread travel related)

We want to pause and allow time for silence. For this reason, all cathedral tours are cancelled today and tomorrow (on 21 and 22.12.2024). The same applies to the Christmas singing of the cathedral choir.

[It's not clear if this means at all the services including the 3 Vespers Services and the Midnight Service on Christmas Eve and the Christmas Day and St Stephen's Day services- or just for the weekend.]

News reports keep mentioning the Berlin market attack several years ago. They don’t mention the Strasbourg attack that happened in 2018, just as I was considering attending it. This hasn’t just happened in Germany.

There were, apparently, safety bollards present, but the attacker found some way to skirt them. As with so many other locations that have added physical barriers for protection in the last several years, Christmas markets may now join them. Mayhem can be caused using quite a variety of weapons. The last number I saw of fatalities from this attack was six. Injuries, of course are much more. Suspect is in custody. My prayers are for all the victims, and I hope that everyone here can have a safe rest of 2024.

If Frank II and I agree, then it's true. So true we can close the thread. LOL!

I'm looking out the window to see if pigs are flying. LOL

I hope that people will still be able to enjoy Christmas markets in the future, but new security measures will undoubtedly become part of the atmosphere. This will be a hard holiday, though, for many victims and their loved ones.

This from Deutsche Welle:

According to Der Spiegel news magazine, the Saudi secret service had previously warned its German counterparts about the suspected attacker on several occasions.**

Despite this, Die Welt newspaper reported that a risk assessment by German state and federal police last year concluded the suspect posed "no specific danger."

BKA President Holger Münch told the German public broadcaster ZDF the man had various contacts with authorities during which he made insults and sometimes threats, "but he was not known for acts of violence."

Thank you all for your thoughtful discourse in this thread. I need to weigh in on a few things.

Any declaration as to whether a topic is travel-related and fitting for this forum - or not - is up to moderators and not individual assessment. Please simply report threads for review if the fit for this forum is of concern. Otherwise it sends a thread off topic and that happened here.

As a reminder, the reason we allow for this sort of topic is because it is pertinent to travelers who may be going there or need to know if it has any ramifications for visiting that locale, other nearby destinations, other markets, etc. Discussions about how it pertains to travel fit.

Assessments of terrorism or conjecture about motive really isn't a fit here. While no individual here wishes to support the attacker in any way, I also believe no one wants our forum to effectively reward the attacker with public discourse over their grievance that led to the attack. I think there are a few posts that are of value and fit this forum, and for that I've spent some time to remove posts in order to keep this thread. I'm otherwise closing this thread. Thank you all for your understanding. It was a truly awful attack that killed and injured so many, and I certainly understand why everyone wants to weigh in, but we also need to stick to travel.

Thank you all. May your holidays be brighter than this topic.