summer trip to Germany and Netherlands

Since a car would be a burden in Amsterdam, I'd say fly to Amsterdam, use public transport to the central city, then take the train to a convenient spot in Germany where you want to visit and then rent the car and end up at Frankfurt airport to fly home. Or do that in reverse.

Sam's plan makes good sense if the "open-jaws" airport plan is reasonably priced. It costs time and $ to return to your starting point.

As long as you pick up and drop off in the same country, you will NOT incur extra fees - it doesn't need to be dropped at the same location where you pick up.

"We will be renting a car and hope to be able to use it to travel around both countries."

How old is your granddaughter? You might get some itinerary and activity suggestions with that info and more on your interests. Sounds like about 25% of your time will be in A'dam. There are many very good options that lie roughly between AMS and FRA. Just driving around the Netherlands would require a lot of time. Consider imposing on yourselves a certain travel radius for these countries - if you expect to see all of both countries in just 2 weeks, you'll spend all your time in the car.

You don't make clear whether the car is an integral part of your touring plan, or if you simply guessed that it was a good way to see two adjacent countries. I'm not arguing for or against trains and public transportation, because the tour plan is unknown. Another issue is whether you will be jet-lagged upon arrival and thus unable to make full use of the car immediately.

If this is your first trip to Europe and you are going to focus on large cities, maybe you don't really want a car at all. If you have certain smaller places you want to see, you might be really well off with a car, and even willing to pay the drop-off charge for returning in a different country. Do you plan to visit other cities in the Netherlands? How often do you want to change hotels?

There are some likely itineraries for which a car is possible, but not necessary. For example, if you are going to Cologne and planning to take a short boat ride on the Rhine (say, from Bingen to Boppard), you can do that, and see a small town or two conveniently by train. The car would be a hindrance in Cologne, which is for me, more than a one night stop. I personally would skip Frankfurt on a first trip to Germany and train all the way to Berlin, worth several days, and easy to fly home from. (We actually saw the Rhine from the less-interesting Koblenz, where we had a garden fair to attend. But even in that case, we stayed in a tiny post-medieval town, Andernach, and took the train to Koblenz daily to avoid traffic and parking woes. That's a matter of personal travel style, and I'm not urging it on you without knowing you.)

You also might want to browse some other posts here, or get Rick's books on Germany and the Netherlands so you learn about Umweltplakett stickers on cars and other driving advice.

Wow! I am overwhelmed by all of the great advice! My granddaughter is turning 18 and graduating high school. This trip is the one she chose as a graduation present from us. Frankfurt was not a place I chose to see, not to put it down, but only because I know that it is a place to fly into and out of. My plan was not to really spend any time there. After all of the great advice, I think that we will fly into Amsterdam, where Lexi wants to spend at least 4 days. Am thinking of an airbnb there. Maybe take a train out to somewhere one day. She mostly wants to see Anne Frank House and Van Gogh museum, stroll around the parks, and do some shopping. Then travel somewhere in Germany by train and rent a car. We really need one because we like to just leisurely drive around and see the countryside, plus Karen and Lexi both bring along a lot of luggage, compared to my backpack, and don't want to be lugging it around trains and buses any more than entirely necessary. Lexi really "got into" studying the holocaust in her history classes, so she would like to see a bit of this part of history, as well as she loves art museums and just seeing how people live. Any suggestions as to where to take a train in Germany from Amsterdam to maximize our week, or so, touring around. Am now reconsidering Frankfurt altogether after the suggestion of flying out of Berlin. I know that there are "things to see" in Berlin. I realize that we will lose a couple of days just getting to Amsterdam and recovering from get lag. I am no longer a youngster. As of now, the plan for Amsterdam, for the first "full" day there is to take some kind of canal cruise, something very "light", even just strolling around. Also, Karen keeps talking about a "river cruise" on the Rhine, while in Germany. Any suggestions there? I realize that I have laid out quite a bit to you wonderful people, but I really want to give Lexi the trip she so richly deserves after working so hard in high school. Thank you.

Since it is a graduation trip, assume it will be in the summer. You could take a train from Amsterdam to Mainz (change trains in Cologne) then check in to a hotel by the station in Mainz (several good ones), then buy a Rheinland-Pfalz ticket for, I believe 35 EUR and take a local train to Bingen Stadt and get a K-D boat that will travel down the Rhine through the most scenic portions to St Goar, then return to Mainz in the early evening on the train. The Rheinland-Pfalz ticket will cover you both ways as well as get you a discount on the K-D boat.
http://www.kdrhine.com/rhineschedule.htm

Next day rent a car near the station and make your way to Berlin. There are many scenic towns along the way, like Eisenach (birthplace of JS Bach and the very nice castle, Wartburg), Erfurt (nearby Buchenwald concentration camp memorial) and Weimar, (German seat of government between end of WW I and beginning of the Third Reich), and many more.

I'd say turn the car in when you get to Berlin. It is a bit of a spread out city with very good public transportation. Besides the Memorial the Murdered Jews of Europe in the city, the Sachsenhausen concentration camp memorial is just north of the city in Oranienburg, easily reached by train. Easy bus service (or taxi) to Tegel Airport for the return home, or, if pigs fly, by train to the new International Airport that was supposed to be completed 4 years ago but is still not operational.

See if you can get them to lighten up on the packing.

Additional responses are running on the Netherlands Forum version of this question.

For Anne Frank House, if you want advanced tickets for a reserved time, you need to buy them months in advance. It can be tricky, because they'll put a month of tickets on sale at a time, and they sell out very quickly! You have to watch their site regularly and be ready when the dates you want, go on sale. If you are going in June, start looking at end of March. http://annefrank.org/en/Museum/Practical-information/Online-ticket-sales/
At the time I went, June 2016, they had just switched to this new method of appointment only from opening til 3:30, then walk ups only from 3:30 on. I bought my tickets in March. I have no idea what the walk up lines are like, but I bet there are other threads in here with more up to date information on that.

For Van Gogh Museum, I was able to walk up and wait maybe 20 minutes in line for tickets, middle of the day on a Sunday in June. There is also the wonderful Rijksmusem next to the Van Gogh. It may be easier to get tickets on line for these museums with less of an advance purchase. Have your granddaughter bring a school ID, many things in Europe will offer students a lower fee.

If weather permits, the walk from Anne Frank House to Van Gogh Museum is nice, maybe about a mile and a half, walking mostly along the Prinsengracht and the canal (same street that Anne Frank House is on). Learn quickly where the bike lanes are!

Have a great time!

"Maybe take a train out to somewhere one day."

Zaanse Schans (travel by train to the Koog-Zaandijk station) is an easy and enjoyable destination from A'dam.

"Then travel somewhere in Germany by train... Lexi really "got into" studying the holocaust... she loves art museums and just seeing how people live. "

Cologne is a popular destination that you can reach from A'dam by direct train in less than 3 hours. Besides the Cologne cathedral there are lots of museums including the Nazi Documentation Center, in the former Gestapo headquarters building, which would no doubt interest Lexi. Cologne is good for people-watching too. You might stay there for 2-3 days and include an outing to Aachen for its old town zone (compact and easy to get around on foot) and Cathedral (like Cologne's, it's a UNESCO World Heritage site.)

"...and rent a car. We really need one because we like to just leisurely drive around and see the countryside..."

With your interests and several days to burn, I would spend much longer than just a few hours in the Middle Rhine Valley (also UNESCO WH) and in the nearby Mosel River Valley, both of which have some of Germany's best natural scenery and loveliest countryside. Old-world towns (Bacharach, Oberwesel, Braubach, and Cochem,) medieval castles (Burg Eltz in the Mosel region; on the Rhine, Marksburg in Braubach, Rheinfels in St. Goar,) and historical cities like Trier and Mainz all make for interesting exploring. To see how locals have lived over the centuries, pay a visit to the open air museum in Bad Sobernheim. Excellent! Chair lift rides to lookouts, hiking trails, bike paths, wineries and vineyards, and a summer bobsled run (St. Goarshausen) are available in this area as well.

"Karen keeps talking about a "river cruise" on the Rhine..."

Of course. As Sam suggests, Board the boat in Bingen and cruise north to St. Goar or a little further north to Boppard to see the best part. Map of this area: http://www.bingen-ruedesheimer.com/images/map/rhine-valley290.jpg

"Karen and Lexi both bring along a lot of luggage, compared to my backpack..."

Getting to the Middle Rhine/Mosel region: Drive or go by direct train. It's not far from Cologne. Getting around the region: Either by car or by train. Trains go almost everywhere. As for suitcases, a well-chosen travel base town eliminates that problem for train travelers. The bags stay "at home" in your rental apartment while you pursue day trips. St. Goar, Braubach, or Boppard would be well-located small-town choices with lots of old-world atmosphere. Use the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket Sam suggests or the VRM mini-group ticket for day trips.

Be cautious about letting the holocaust/Nazi stuff dominate your trip. Keep it fun.

Again, I am overwhelmed by all of the wonderful advice. It is going to take me some time to digest all of what you all have given me. I appreciate it immensely! I am sure that I will get back with you once I've had the time to spend some serious time on what you have given me! By the way, I have spent the morning checking plane ticket prices, etc. to Amsterdam and home by way of Germany. It looks like Icelandair has overall the best deals for me flying from Phoenix. The thing is that they only seem to fly out of Frankfurt and I think Munich. And Frankfurt is cheaper, so I am thinking that I will probably have to go with them. On the flights, with stops, I am trying to get a 2-3 hour layover on the stops, 2 each way, to allow for delays. Is allowing an hour stopover in Iceland enough? Thanks. And for the advice on not overdoing the holocaust stuff, I totally agree, this trip is meant to be enjoyable, as well as educational, but mostly enjoyable.

In support of Sam's suggestion of the Erfurt/Weimar/Eisenach area, I'd like to add that Erfurt has a really lovely historic district (not too much war damage) and is a lively university town. I think you'd all enjoy it. It would be a viable overnight stop or a good place for a half-day (or more) of wandering around.

Buchenwald is outside Weimar and accessible by public bus, though having a car makes things simpler.

I think you'll find plenty of wonderful options in Germany well to the west of Berlin, so I sort of doubt that you'll get to that city on this trip, though anyone interested in WW II and Cold War history would appreciate at least a week there. But just in case: Kinda sorta on the way between the Rhine and Berlin is the truly stunning city of Quedlinburg. It has over 1000 half-timbered buildings going back to the medieval era, a castle, a cathedral with a very impressive treasury (and an American connection), and an art gallery. The tourist office does English-language tours, or you can rent an audio guide. It's a wonderful place to visit but overlooked by most Americans. Of course, you may have gotten enough half-timbered buildings during your time along the Rhine.

If your granddaughter has a special interest in Van Gogh, check out the Kröller-Müller Museum in Otterlo (Neth.). Advance research is recommended on the subject of public transportation, which may not be easy.

An hour is plenty of time to change planes in Iceland. The cheapest seats on Icelandair are plenty big enough, no need to pay for upgrades.

I agree with Sam and acraven's suggestions. But I wonder if these special-interest (if superb) locations are worth the time for a pre-college student. For example, I'm asking whether the Van Gogh interest is casual or actual art or art-history scholarly? That south-east tier is a long way from Berlin. (We took the train from Berlin and rented a car in Leipzig for 3 overnights EACH in Dresden, Weimar, and Erfurt. And we had to skip the Zeiss museum in Jena) If you go to Quedlinburg, do not miss https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_of_medieval_art_from_Quedlinburg . BTW, if you can possibly visit Germany during strawberry or pifferling (chanterelle) season, you will find a charming mania on streetcorners and in restaurants. In the U.S., we now demand seasonal produce all year long! In summer, the Kroller-Muller museum is in the middle of a wonderful forest reserve with free white bicycles from the entrances to the snack bars and the museum. Some people would also want to visit the Royal Palace in the same area.

What I meant about "worth the time" is that the Rhine and the major cities might be enough for a first trip to Europe. It's so nice to settle down and feel familiar walking around an inexhaustible city like Cologne or Berlin or Amsterdam. (There are at least five superb commuter train trips of under an hour from Amsterdam for a day out.) I also think you have too rosy a view of the magnificent sights you're going to see from the highway. You are not going to be driving through any little wooden villages from Band of Brothers. Personally, I prefer the views from a train. (BTW, by far, the best Rhine views are from the boat ride.)

Don't focus on the word "cruise" in regard to the Rhine. It's more like a passenger ferry with a big snack bar. The main company is "KD" (Koln-Duesseldorf). Download this year's schedule to get an idea of what your time choices might be next summer. You'll be on the boat 2 hours or less.

When you mention " Also, Karen keeps talking about a "river cruise" on the Rhine, while in Germany" , if she is thinking of a 7 night cruise ( as in Masterpiece Theatre adverts for Viking River cruises ) or a few hours duration as RS suggests.

Thanks for the great information. Karen was thinking of the Rick Steves idea of a portion of the trip for maybe a few hours to half day. I appreciate the suggestions as to what part to do to reap the most.

I see that with Icelandair, you will need to connect in Minneapolis with Sun Country airlines, and you will need to spend the night in Minneapolis on the way home. That is not all that bad.

If you want to take the "northern" route to Berlin via the Rhine Gorge and central Germany, you might save by taking a round trip to/from Amsterdam. It is a 6 1/2 hour IC train direct from Berlin. An alternative would be to return from Berlin to Frankfurt on an ICE train in a bit over 4 hours, and advance purchase Sparpreis tickets are as low as 19 EUR per person. To Amsterdam it is 39 EUR per person. So see if the round trip saves more money than going open-jaw.

Another alternative is to head toward Munich and fly home from there, although it is more money to fly home from there. You can hit Wuerzburg, Bamberg (UNESCO world heritage site), Nuremberg (Nazi Rally grounds as well as a well restored city of the 1400's and Imperial Capital) then Munich, with the Dachau concentration camp outside of town. Nice country driving (Romantic Road) and quaint villages.