Summer 2 Week trip

You don't need to rent a car, you can everything do by taking our trains. This would be much more comfortable and safer then driving via our cramped Autobahn, full of trucks, lots of traffic jams and traffic accidents.

Day 3: Please note that the train journey from Hamburg to Munster Museum takes about two hours and the journey from Munster station to Nuremberg takes 5-6 hours; a car won't get you there any faster. So this will be a very long day. You might want to break up the trip depending on your interests (e.g., in a half-timbered town: Göttingen, Einbeck, Hannoversch Münden; Göttingen is the most convenient in terms of rail connections) or in a Baroque town like Fulda.

Day 6: I assume you mean Illesheim. That goes much better with Rothenburg than with Bamberg. You won't need much time there, as it's only a village with 900 inhabitants (unless you get access to the base). However, the nearby Franconian Open Air Museum in Bad Windsheim, just a few kilometers away, would be interesting.

So i am not planning on using the car too much once we get to our general locations and do plan on using local mass transportation where it seems feasible. But dealing with luggage and other things, it makes sense for us to get rent a vehicle.

Response to post by "Fritz".

• Regarding Munster (Lower Saxony) to Hamburg. i originally thought of taking the train for the whole trip. but when i looked at the connections, I decided for flexibility i would drive from Munster to Buchholz and catching round trip train to Hamburg.

• Munster to Nuremburg: I figured we would get done with the tank Museum around 2P. So 5-6 hour drive gets us to Nuremburg a shouldn't be an issue (especially since this will be in the summer and be daylight most of the drive). Plus i really tried to make is so we don't change hotels too often.

-Illesheim would really only be about a 30 minute stop (Max 1 hr) just for my dad because he lived there in late 50's and to show my son where his granddad lived. not much more than that.

-Regarding Rothenbug vs Bamburg: I know Illesheim is close to Rothenburg (been there in the 1980's). I also know it is were everyone goes so it would be crowded. Heard Bamburg is pretty neat and never been. may do both on diferent days.

• Franconian Open Air Museum in Bad Windsheim in the early 1990's. it was ok.

Is Miniature Wonderland really worth going that far out of your way for?
Also, Munster is a pretty long drive after that overnight flight.
If it were me, I'd look at a connecting flight (or a train) into Hamburg and then using the trains and local transportation for the whole trip.

Responding to "G3rryCee"

Original trip planning was to do Rhine day cruise and Heidelberg Castle and Sinsheim technical museum before going to Munich and Nuremburg.

However, my son has been talking about the German Tank Museum in Munster for several years. So we decided to delete the stuff above and make sure we went to that museum. Since that is so close to Hamburg, makes sense to do Minature Wunderland as my dad is a model train hobbiest and my son likes them as well (i would like to go and my wife after seeing it on youtube, thinks it will be neat also.

It looks like about a 4-5 hour drive. Not ideal but i could think of a better way to schedule it. i did think of flying into Hamburg but that would require a layover in Amsterdam. whereas flying into Frankfurt is direct from ATL.

If you drink beer, as suggested above, you might want to visit the little town of Einbeck since it has its own brewery, a different taste.

"Son is big into WW2 history and tanks." I know this is a trip to Germany with a specific family purpose. However, in terms of seeing that specific interest of the your son as regards to tanks per se, I don't suggest just stopping with the museum in Munster/Õrtze.

Far more comprehensive and detailed regarding tanks (tanks galore) can be seen in England, ie in Dorset, the Bovington Tank Museum regarding WW2 tanks and specifically German armour which can be done as a day trip from London Waterloo station.

Just fly directly into Hamburg (HAM).

Son is big into WW2 history, tanks.

You shall consider visiting the submarines U 995 in Laboe and Wilhelm Bauer in Bremerhaven both day trips from Hamburg. U995 is a type VII, so the standard submarine which was also operating along US coast. The one in Bremerhaven is a type XXI (more or less following type VII) which was used at the end of WWII but came too late to become a game changer.

If he wants to visit a Memorial of a real battle ground I recommend Seelower Höhen, close to Berlin (on your way to Nuremberg). In Berlin's center near Brandenburg Gate you will find two sowjet T34 at Sowjet Memorial, in public just near the street. Maybe just a stop-over?

Is Miniature Wonderland really worth going that far out of your way for?

Absolutely. it is #1 attraction of top 100 sights in Germany, voted by travelers.

For free the link to the Federal Archive of Germany with a picture search for "Panzer":
https://www.bild.bundesarchiv.de/dba/en/search/?yearfrom=1938&yearto=1946&query=Panzer+-spanien+-spanisch

I agree with Mark. On potential sites (also the Nikolai church, a bombed out ruin with a museum in the basement a short walk from Miniatur Wunderland) and on the fact that MW is absolutely worth the trip. I could seriously spend months there.

Re: Fred

I am a big WW2 buff along with my son. We have been to the US ARMY Armor and Calvary Collection at Ft. Benning Multiple times.

I have seen youtube videos about The Bovington Tank Museum and that would be really cool to see one day.

@ DKW.....The museum in Munster/Õrtze used to be more comprehensive and better in my view. It was then called ,"Das Panzermuseum" whereas now the new name is "Das deutsche Panzermuseum." Two decades ago the museum had more exhibits, all in German, (a good opportunity for reading the language), such as operational maps, etc. No more.

If you're after WW2 armour, see Seelow, (as suggested above) which can be reached by regional train from Berlin Hbf to Frankfurt an der Oder, then the S-Bahn to Seelow. It is the site of the greatest battle ever fought on German soil, when the Soviets opened up their offensive against Berlin by flinging waves of troops against the German defenses. The battlefield memorial museum is worth seeing plus on the premises is an array of Russian armour, anti-tank guns, tank destroyers, etc, likewise at the museum in Berlin-Karlshorst (S -3: Eckner) ...if you're interested in the Eastern Front.

@ DKW...part 2 here

Re: Bovington....I have visited , seen several of these museums in Europe , the exception is Saumur, France, but Bovington I would rate as the most comprehensive and thorough, absolutely indispensable if one wants to learn about tank warfare developing into an operational arm.

The ticket, though expensive, is valid for one year, one can go back over and over to one's delight to see this massive array of tanks, US, Soviet, French, Czech, German, Finnish, British, a special room set aside for German tanks.

I was at the Panzer Museum almost exactly one year ago. It's excellent. Consider staying in Hannover, which was heavily bombed in WWII. The Marriott chain has turned the ex-Penguin pen factory into a rather nice, and interesting hotel. And in Hannover you can see St Aegidienkirch which is left as the bombed out shell as a memorial.

It's a long drive from there to Nuremberg. And Illesheim, where I spent several years a long time ago, is very small. I've driven through there a couple ties in the past 2-3 years, but never bothered to go on base. It's changed considerably. You may want to detour a couple blocks off the main road and go by the Schloss. It was the Luftwaffe HQ for the region, the airfield was used extensively, and after the war it served as a gasthaus for many years. If you drive from there through Ansbach you'll see some tanks set as memorials. Both Illesheim and Ansbach still have small American military units stationed in them.

If you haven't been to Rothenberg it would be good to visit, as you're only 15 km away. It may be touristy, but it's a very attractive town.

In Hamburg, if you want something WWII oriented to see, go to the Flak Tower. Only three cities ever got the large flak towers, Berlin, Hamburg, and Vienna. The three that were completed in Berlin were blown up, but you can do an underground tour of the one that wasn't totally destroyed. Vienna tuned theirs into an Aquarium. Hamburg just, in the past two years, finally opened the one they have as a shopping mall, restaurant, hanging garden. The reason they still exist is the cost to remove them would be too expensive. https://www.discovergermany.com/hamburgs-flak-tower-iv-from-nazi-bunker-to-green-oasis/

https://www.schanzenbraeu.de/schankwirtschaft/

Re. KGC.

I know Hamburg and Munster (Ortze) are a long way from Nuremburg (appx 6 hours by car). Son really wants to see the tank museum. My son has also talked about seeing the flak tower. If we have time, we will stop by.

Only reason going to Illesheim is to take my dad there to see where he lived while my granddad was stationed there in the late 1950's.

Rothenburg is an definitely an option.

@ DKW.....Unless you drastically make some changes re: this trip's itinerary, you can save Berlin for the next trip to take in more WW2 sites and explore them without being under a time constraint, that is, assuming you want more on WW2 sites in the greater Berlin area, ie Gross-Berlin.

I would suggest also Berlin-Krampnitz, the tank testing grounds, etc in western Berlin towards Potsdam, the ruins , and a particularly poignant WW2 site, Halbe, accessible by regional train from Berlin Hbf plus Wünsdorf-Zossen, the HQ for OKH (General Staff), Wünsdorf is also connected with the development of armour branch (Panzerwaffe) . I am certain that you would find the museum in Wünsdorf highly informative and enlightening .

However, in terms of seeing that specific interest of the your son as regards to tanks per se, I don't suggest just stopping with the museum in Munster/Õrtze.
Far more comprehensive and detailed regarding tanks (tanks galore) can be seen in England,

That goes without saying. In post-war Germany, people didn't want to be reminded of the inglorious past, which is why there was so much resistance to the establishment of this museum. I was stationed in Munster for most of the year 1970 (training to become a lieutenant in the armored forces), and even then there was already discussion about concentrating all the relics of the German tank forces scattered across Munsterlager and elsewhere, yet it still took more than 15 years for the project to take shape. And during that time, a lot was lost.

so visitors should be aware that what they see there is simply what has survived the passage of time, rather than a systematic collection like the one in England. And really not all of the exhibits are truly impressive. Many of the early tank models are such that one wonders how Hitler could have been so bold as to wage war with such toys. As my course instructor (a former adjutant of Rommel who lost an eye and an arm in the Battle of El Alamein) used to say, “These are really just wheel chocks for real tanks.”

I hope that they are now also documenting the tanks used by the Bundeswehr, which until the end of the 1960s were mainly produced in the US. I myself was trained on an M48 Patton, which shot incredibly accurately once you got used to it. In summer 1970, we came second in a NATO comparison shooting competition, albeit far behind the much more clever Belgians, but also far ahead of all the Leopard crews.

There are also other interesting things to see in the Muster area. A few minutes' drive towards Uelzen is Epstorf, where the largest medieval world map was produced. A reconstruction can be seen in the local monastery. It even shows the direct route to paradise. ;)