Struggle with Planning 6 day German Trip from Frankfurt

Can't help you with much, except to tell you to stay in the city of Frankfurt rather than the airport the day before you fly out. It is only 11 min. away by train and you will find a huge variety of hotels to match your budget unless you are there during the Book Fair (11-15 Oct), when prices in Frankfurt and all of the surrounding towns increase a lot.

There is usually one ship per day on the Rhine, especially if the weather stays decent. You can always call the KD line and ask if they will have a ship on a certain day.

I understand that this is a lot, which is why I asked for help. If you have suggestions on how to change it or what to cut, please do so instead of just telling me it sucks. This is my dads first (and likely only) time to Europe and I'd like to make it enjoyable.

I can't really re-do your itinerary, not knowing all you know, but I can help you with the Rhine Cruise. KD is the most popular company but they are early-quitters so go with Bingen-Rüdesheimer instead. They run cruises through Nov. 5 between Bingen (southern gateway town) and St. Goar (to the north, a couple towns north of Bacharach.) HERE is their schedule - they leave Bingen at 9:30, 11:15 and 14:30. You'll find those times confirmed in the upper right hand corner under "Loreleyfahrten" (which means trips to the Loreley, the legendary cliffs near St. Goar.)

The cruise I've suggested is the most scenic segment and is mapped out HERE.

I'd discourage staying at the Bacharach hostel if traveling by train. It's about 500 uphill steps like these with bags to the castle unless you take a taxi coming and going. If you want to do that cruise, it makes good strategic sense to stay where it starts, in Bingen, maybe at the NH Bingen, which is on the Bingen waterfront promenade and closer yet to the airport and has a commanding river view that includes castles and vineyards. The view from the breakfast dining room is outstanding too. You can catch a train back to Bingen after your cruise, stopping over in Bacharach for a walk around town, if you like.

You have a huge detour penned in for Neuschwanstein's 30-minute tour but it is not a genuine castle - only a late-19th-century palace with a fake castle exterior. Why not drop that and treat yourselves and dad to a very real medieval castle tour while you're on the Rhine?? Marksburg (in Braubach) was never destroyed and presents a good peek at medieval life; it offers tours that take about 1 hour in English at 1 and 4 pm. It's MUCH easier to reach than Burg Eltz. You could catch a train there after a morning cruise (maybe get off in St. Goarshausen instead of St. Goar - from there it's only a 20-minute train ride to Braubach.)

Braubach is nice too.
Rick on Marksburg

You will find it much easier to get from Geneva to FRA from Geneva than to detour to Füssen on the way.

With 6 nights on the ground, you physically do not have enough time to travel between Rhine - Alps - Fuessen - Frankfurt. That comes down to train schedules. Cut at least one of those regions and spend at least two nights at most stops. Keeping the whole trip within Germany helps with travel time. For instance, you could use the Zugspitze as your mountain experience, combining it with Fussen.

• From Bacharach to Chamonix is a minimum of 9 hours and 5 connections by train, via Martigny. A route via Geneva with connection to Chamonix by shuttle bus would be fewer connections but not any faster.
• You can get from Bacharach to Lauterbrunnen, Switzerland in under 7 hours with 2 connections (9:30 departure).
• Timing is similar from either of those mountain bases to get to Fuessen, which is also not on a main train line.
• Flights from Frankfurt to Geneva are not particularly cheap - I see $160-240 starting rates on various days of October.

Hi,

I can suggest a route that goes Frankfurt to Geneva changing twice via Paris and Lyon.

Take the early train to Paris Est, then go Gare de Lyon, you have ca hour to do that. That can be done by Metro or bus. At Gare de Lyon take the TGV to Lyon, which arrives at 14:56, then take the 15:34 dep to Geneva on the TGV. You arrive in Geneva at 17:17. Going to Geneva can be done if you think it is worth it. Ten hours on the train with 2 transfers I've done it.

I would suggest forget going to Chemonix. After doing the Middle Rhine area, you can still go to Geneva from Frankfurt.

Fred - Why the detour by train? A cheaper Frankfurt-Geneva route via Germany can now be as fast as 6 hours and 1 connection, when they're not having the current track issues near the Swiss border (which they should not by the end of October).

Thanks for the help! I am going to eliminate Chanonix, Geneva and Fussen. I knew it was a lot, I just wanted to cram it all in!

Ideally now I'd like to stay maybe 2 days on the Rhine and see some of those castles, I'll probably take Russ's advice there. Then I will probably travel somewhere to the alps and stay 2-3 nights there.

Is there a cheaper, closer Alps city that anyone can recommend? Is everything just stupid expensive in Switzerland? Maybe I'll only do 2 nights there and 3 nights in the Rhine Valley!

Thanks everyone!

Also yes, Frankfurt is already locked in as our starting and ending points.

There is a daily direct EC train that stops at both Koblenz and Mainz to Interlaken Ost. It departs Koblenz at 9:48 and Mainz at 10:40 and gets to Interlaken Ost at 3:57 pm.
Now Interlaken has nice views of the Berner Oberland Range, but spend another hour and travel by train to Wengen or Muerren and be in the mountains.

Anywhere along the Rhine gorge area is connected by frequent regional trains to Koblenz to the north or Mainz to the south.
All of Switzerland is expensive due to, as even the director of the Swiss National Bank admits, a very overvalued currency. Interlaken will be a bit cheaper than Wengen or Muerren. Location, location, location.

Thanks Sam! I will definitely look at that. I was checking out the gondola from that area and saw the prices on it were insane! I'm not sure if I was reading it right, but it looked over $100pp depending where we left from.

If you are referring to the Jungfraujochbahn to the top, yes it is very expensive. It is not a gondola, but a train that goes through a spiral tunnel through the middle of the Eiger. There are less expensive things to see and go. Also, if the weather is not clear, you definitely don't want to do that.

"I am going to eliminate Chanonix, Geneva and Fussen... I'd like to stay maybe 2 days on the Rhine and see some of those castles... probably travel somewhere to the alps and stay 2-3 nights there... Is there a cheaper, closer Alps city that anyone can recommend?"

Yes. Well, closer, but maybe not cheaper. Here's a doable plan that does what you want. I'll detail the Rhine since I know the place well and it's tricky.

Day 1: Arriving at noon after an overnight flight, Dad will likely be a bit bushed. If the weather is good that day, an afternoon cruise would be the best low-energy option on a day when there's time for little else. But you are unlikely to make the 14:30 Loreley cruise from Bingen that I previously suggested. So if you're taking my Bingen-base suggestion, then once you've checked in, I suggest instead taking the Castle Cruise (Burgenfahrt B7, 16:15, see upper left box at link below for schedule) from Bingen instead. It explores the cluster of castles just downstream from Bingen, takes only one hour, and drops you back in Bingen (no extra train trip required.)

http://www.bingen-ruedesheimer.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/BINRUED_Fahrplan2017_FINAL

Day 2: Travel loop from Bingen:

• Morning train to St. Goar for Rheinfels Castle (opens 9 am)

• Ferry to St. Goarshausen (just crosses the river, runs all day) + train to Braubach (22 min.) Walk, taxi or shuttle up to Marksburg Castle for tour (in German with English pamphlet, or in English at 1 and 4 pm.)

• Train to Boppard with its nice waterfront and attractive old town zone via Koblenz for a look at town and dinner (good selection of restaurants.) Return by train to Bingen.

• All your transport this day is covered by the "Rheinland-Pfalz Ticket" day pass (€29, buy at Bingen station ticket machine, see link for details.)

Day 3: Morning train to Bacharach for a walk around town. Return to Bingen for bags. Catch afternoon train from Bingen for LUCERNE (LUZERN) Switzerland. Leave Bingen 12:52, arrive Luzern 18:05.

Day 4: Choices in/near Luzern

Day 5: Morning in/near Luzern; afternoon train 13:54 to Heidelberg (17:34) for 2 nights.

Day 6: Choices in/near Heidelberg (there are many good ones... one that might interest you is the Technik-Museum in Speyer.)

Day 7: Morning train to FRA (8:13 - 9:06 or 9:13 - 10:06)

Thank you, Russ! That is perfect.