strategically located home base for lots of day trips.... Mannheim?

Rob, do you like chess?

Mannheim is the world's biggest chessboard.

Mannheim is the world's biggest chessboard.

And since it has been bombed to dust, it is also the ugliest one.
But is has a great Museum, Reiss-Engelhorn (and, yes, excellent train connections).

I worked in Viernhiem (Sp?) (halfway between Mannheim and Heidelberg) for 3 months many years ago. We had a car and it was a great location for day trips as it is at the intersection of 2 autobahns. Manheim with its train connections should be equally as good for day trips.

I confess that every time someone posts about renting a place for a month in a city that doesn't have a lot of attractions of its own and making lots of side-trips, my instinctive reaction is to question the financial logic. I'm sure there's money to be saved on a one-month rental, but I bet the extra rail fares (especially when two or more people are involved) will eat up all the savings on lodgings, and then there's all the extra time on the train. If multiple possible destinations are in the same direction and not that far from each other, why not spend 4 nights or so in one of them?

Two hours is at the outer edge of the travel time I'd consider for a day-trip. To me that's only suitable if the destination is a small place with only a few hours' worth of sights. I wouldn't be happy needing to make two or more day-trips to the same place if each one involved sitting on trains for 3 or 4 hours per day.

I had to spend a month in Mannheim to do restaurant management training and just really disliked the place. Granted, this was in the late 90s, but this was a city with so little charm, that I can't imagine anyone going there to stay of their own free will. Hopefully, the city has improved since then.
Obviously, in my opinion, Frankfurt is ideal for close day trips of an hour, perhaps a tad more. Marburg, Limburg, Worms, Heidelberg, the Rhein Gorge, Mainz, Eltville, Idstein, Seligenstadt, Michelstadt, Büdingen, Gelnhausen, Fulda, or Speyer. Würzburg and Aschaffenburg are about 1.5 hours. Cool places to see would be Hessen Park Open Air Museum or the Saalburg Roman fort.

Viernhiem (Sp?)
Viern-heim ("Virno's home").

Thanks for replies everyone. Basically in the back of my mind I have another Germany trip planned, to take place sometime after our Italy trip which will hopefully be in 2021. Relooking at train timetables, Frankfurt does look attractive as well in terms of Wurzburg, Marburg, Bonn, Mainz etc. From there I think we'd enjoy alot of places in Baden Württemberg which is how Mannheim popped up on my horizon, and perhaps could finish our trip in either Switzerland or in Munich with some kind of Alpine visits.

Concerning the home base idea, and how much it makes sense to stay in one place vs moving to different accomodations, I'm ambivalent in terms of what's too far for a day trip. On our trip last year, our day trip from Garmisch to Innsbruck (1 hours 20 minutes each way) was the perfect example of a good one. We had plenty of time for us to see the city, and yet coming back home on the train we weren't worn out or anything like that. A no brainer was Erfurt to Gotha, about half an hour each way Had we stayed longer in Munich I had several day trip ideas like Landshut, Augsburg, Tegernsee etc that might work for another trip there, so the idea does appeal to me about not having to find new places to stay too often. I know that back home, a day trip to Tahoe of 1.75 hours each way by car isn't too bad. Visiting my mom at 3.75 hours each way on the other hand, no thank you.

I'm sure there's money to be saved on a one-month rental, but I bet the extra rail fares
(especially when two or more people are involved) will eat up all the savings on lodgings

Mannheim, fortuitously, is a border station for two large Nahverkehrsverbünden, Baden-Württemberg and Rheinland-Pfalz (which also includes the Saarland). In addition, it is also in the middle of the VRN (Verkehrsverbund Rhein-Neckar), which includes large areas of Rheinland-Pfalz and Baden-Württemberg. So there are three very large areas with Tageskarten (day tickets) which offer low cost, unlimited travel on regional trains for a day.

So, with only a €30 Baden-Württemberg Tageskarte, 2 people could travel to Stuttgart, almost to Würzburg, to Landa or Bad Mergentheim, to Ulm, down to the north coast of Bodensee, to Friedrichshafen or Lindau, to Basel Switzerland, or through most of the Black Forest.

With a €29 RL-P Tageskarte you could travel to Worms, Kaiserslautern, or Koblenz, to the Mosel to Trier, or almost down the Rhein to Bonn, to Mainz or Saarbrücken.

There is a huge area there for day trips without spending a lot on rail fares.

The places you mention visiting from your Mannheim base are all on the biggish size and that may be your preference, but I’d try to mix it up a little. Ms. Jo mentions some smaller places worth visiting. Eltville, Büdingen, Seligenstadt, Michelstadt I’ve been to (though many shops/eateries were shut down in Michelstadt last year when I was there). Freinsheim and Deidesheim on the wine route, along the Neckar is the wonderful small town of Bad Wimpfen (Saltworks across the river). Some of the suggestions mentioned above involve over 4 hours travel one way, hardly day trips.

I’ve never called on Frankfurt (flown in a few times) or Mannheim, and as a driver I say that the general area around Bad Homburg to the Karlsruhe is the least attractive part of Germany I’ve driven in. Trains to bigger towns or cities might not make any difference to you.

Would prefer Heidelberg instead of Mannheim. ICE and IC connection is comparable good.

Infos:
- IC train network map 2020 from Deutsche Bahn
- ICE train network map 2020 from DB

I’ll add my 2¢ worth to about what you’ve thought through so far and then brainstorm some other location options for you too.

We usually spend 3-4 weeks in one location in Europe and have been very happy with that arrangement for many years—house exchanges. In spending that amount of time in a base location we try to make sure we are very happy with our base as well as the options for other day trips. I hear you say that you like the possibility of Heidelberg but think train connections in Mannheim might be better. Personally I’d chose Heidelberg because you want to spend quality time in your base location. We typically take day trips away from our location every 2-4 days and explore our own city or town on the in between days.

We often stretch our sightseeing by flying into one area and explore there then flying home from another area we’d like to spend some time in with our base location being the relaxing middle.

More about other hubs later but like MarkK, I’d choose Heidelberg over Mannheim if the deciding factor was a train connection.

No question that Heidelberg is the more attractive city - but for train connections, Mannheim is hard to beat (for a city of its size). Assuming, of course, your accomodation is close to the train station.

If Mannheim seems too unattractive, visit nearby Ludwigshafen. It makes Mannheim look beautiful in comparison!

Rob, we can chat about this at the next Sacramento meeting if you like. (If I remember when it is since I have forgotten what day it is the past 2 months.)

Ms.Jo, it’s the 3rd Saturday of the month @ 10:00 a.m. Pacific or 18:00 for you. Rob, when are you going to join a Zoom meeting? Inquiring minds want to know.

If Mannheim seems too unattractive, visit nearby Ludwigshafen.

Ludwigshafen is right across the Rhein river from Mannheim and, similarly, is also a border station for both the Rheinland-Pfalz and the Baden-Württemberg tageskarten.

The combination of the two Länder offers a very large are to explore for side trips. Some are too far away for day trips, but Ferienwohnungen (vacation apartments) are fairly inexpensive, so an overnight trip to more distant places would be feasible.

Mannheim does have great IC/ICE connections but is not a cozy place for an extended stay. My extended stays have typically been in places that are a good bit smaller - for me, an IC/ICE hub is not a necessity. It might in fact be a necessity if my goal were to maximize my travel radius. But Germany tends to have a multitude of places - within a tighter travel zone, and often smaller places than you mention - that would be worth exploring... and perhaps doing so by regional train, as Lee suggests - places the IC/ICE trains do not stop.

"Bonn and Wurzburg and Marburg hit up around the two hour limit."

Würzburg isn't gigantic, but its pleasures are a bit spread out. For someone with a lot of time on their hands, it seems to me that squeezing it into just one day, along with two 2-hour train rides, while possible, might actually cheat you out of some nice experiences, might rush you unnecessarily, or both. And Würzburg, a major TRAIN hub, has many nice nearby day trip options as well... If you actually have a few weeks' time, then a place so distant from Mannheim - like Würzburg - might actually be worth "moving" to for 1-2 of those weeks. I mean, it's still Germany, but culturally speaking, the region (Franconia) where Würzburg lies is distinct from the milieu of Mannheim. With just a few hours there, you would be depriving yourselves.

One more thought about staying in larger places... a pleasant Ferienwohnung is more likely findable on the outskirts of large cities than near the main station, and a bus or tram ride might be needed prior to (and again after) any outing.

If Mannheim seems too unattractive, visit nearby Ludwigshafen. It makes Mannheim look beautiful in comparison!

I completely agree.

A few years ago I needed an electronic gizmo of some sort (forget exactly what, but I remember it was important and I knew that MediaMarkt would have it and the nearest one was in Ludwigshafen) so detoured into Ludwigshafen for the first and I hope last time.

It is a seriously ugly city with difficult roads - one of the was unpaved - and a bit of a smell, probably from all the chemical plants along the river.

I'm quite familiar with the heavy industy as it was in the Ruhr, and still is to some degree in the Saar, but I found nothing whatsoever interesting or attractive in Ludwigshafen.

Around Frankfurt are all sorts of really interesting places, and lots to see and do of interest in the city of Frankfurt too.
I've never been back.

Wow, thanks for replies everyone. Jo, thanks for all your Frankfurt info and offer to discuss more on zoom. And Andrea good question about my zoom attendance. Somehow the nature of it, while helpful in these times, just doesn't work for me too well in terms of a casual discussion about travel. But, if we don't meet in person soon I may just break down and join in. But Frankfurt might just be where we would start our next Germany trip (side note, with cases ramping up in Europe again, who knows when we will be travelling again). I do like Mona's pattern of starting part of a trip around the arrival airport and finishing it up with time at the departure area airport city.
Also, thanks Mark for those map links. Some of the nicer ones I've seen. Concerning Lee and Russ's points about trains etc. I love the tagestickets, a great deal certainly. However, I also enjoyed to the speed and smoothness of our IC train trips Munich to Erfurt with a day long stopover in Bamberg, and Erfurt to Berlin with a day long stopover in Leipzig, so I have mixed emotions about the scope of daytrips.

Interesting to hear about Mannheim and Ludwigshafen. Skyscrapercity has a thread of historic pre war photos of German cities and I wonder if they have any of those cities which I'm guessing were quite a bit different looking back then. Side note, the photos of some of those cities from pre war days are amazing, like an alternate universe.

To what Gundersun mentioned about a variety of places to see, I definetly want to achieve that with a mixture of big cities, smaller cities, towns etc. and different nature experiences as well. Don't want my wife thinking "oh, is this just another beautiful looking German town like we saw yesterday," which happened a bit last year.

Right now I'm most interested in from north to south, seeing Marburg, Wurzburg, Frankfurt and cities around it, Heidelberg, some of the Schwarzwald (Bad Herrenalb which I believe Lee has spent time in looks really nice), Freiburg (studied there in the late 80s) and then if we end up flying home via Munich or Zurich maybe the Bodensee area as well. I'm sure things will change up a bit over time, but thats what I'm looking at right now. My wife is pretty much good to go as it would be different from our last trip, and the upcoming one to Italy which hopefully we will be able to do with our daughter next year.

Rob, I have indeed spent time in Bad Herrenalb, 16 nights over 4 trips. The first time was just 2 nights in 2001. I spent the day in between the nights hiking; there are a large number of hiking trails in the hills around town. I returned 9 months later, with my then wife, in December, following a heavy snow storm. One day we went into Karlsruhe to visit the University where her g.grandfather studied architecture. Another day we spent in the Spa (Sieben Taler Therme). The third day we went by bus and rail to Freudenstadt. I went back a couple of years later for a week to do genealogy research at the achieves in Karlsruhe. I finished my research earlier than anticipated, so I took the bus (free with a Konuskarte) over to Bad Wildbad to visit the Spa (Palais Therme) there. The last time I was there I took a bus down to Baden-Baden one day and, the other day, went by bus and rail to visit Calw, the hometown of Steppenwolf author Hermann Hesse.

In addition to the opportunity for hiking and side trips in the Black Forest, Bad Herrenalb is a scenic little town with some good restaurants and it's own Therme. A word of caution, the "open" side is what they call kleiderfrei, clothing free, or maybe banned altogether). Not for the shy, but then, you aren't going to meet anyone you know there, so why not.

You get to Bad Herrenalb by taking a large streetcar, called an S- or Stadt-Bahn from in front of the Karlsruhe Hbf.

Andrea, I think it is 19:00 CET; Germany is 8 hours ahead of Denver, and we're on hour ahead of you. Maybe you are thinking of London, which is 8 hour ahead of you. But Jo will know.

the hometown of Steppenwolf ... ... ... ... ... ... author Hermann Hesse

I thought you were going off into Born to Be Wild fandom, Lee, until I got to the next word. Oh well.... can dream. One of my all time fav bands...

I wouldn't pick Mannheim to stay, not a good tourist location.

Also, you plan day trips to Heidelberg, Worms, Frankfurt, Darmstadt, Mainz, Wiesbaden, Speyer, Baden Baden, Kaiserlautern, Stuttgart, Karlsruhe.

About half of those cities really don't merit touring. I lived in Stuttgart for a few months and the most interesting things there are the Porsche and Mercedes factories.

Heidelberg, Mainz and Baden Baden are worth visiting.

If you want to see the Rhineland, then plan on visiting Strasbourg, France and the Black Forest (Triberg, Titisee).
Take a short Rhine cruise past the Loreli at Rudesheim. Cologne is great to see the magnificent cathedral.
Also, Trier and Viaden, Lux., which are a bit west of the river.

Like Mannheim, Karlsruhe is in the Baden-Württemberg-Ticket area and is a border station for the RL-P-Ticket, so you could stay in Karlsruhe and use either the BW ord RL-P tageskarte. I found Karlsruhe to be a nice city (for a city); it's well situated for short trips to Bad Herrenalb, Baden-Baden, Gengenbach, and Strasbourg.

From Karlsruhe, take a train 20 min to Pforzheim. From there, you can go up the Enz to Bad Wildbad or the Nagold to Calw.

Near Stuttgart, places worth seeing include Tübingen (University town) and Hechingen (Hohenzollernburg).

Hi,

Possible day trips from Mannheim, I would certainly include going to (1) Rastatt, and especially since you might go to Karlsruhe as the trains go there to transfer to Rastatt.

(2) Koblenz and nearby Bad Ems if you want to track down historical sites and military museums. Likewise, with Wiesbaden, as you have that listed already, ie the Südfriedhof. (WW1 section). The bus from Wiesbaden Hbf goes straight to the cemetery, ie, the terminus.

The Rheinland-Pfalz-Ticket includes Wiesbaden Hbf as a border station. With the RF-P-Ticket, your travel from Karlsruhe to the Wiesbaden Hbf would be included, but the bus from there to the Friedhof would not be.