Solo travel from Munich to Frankfurt; options over 12 days

Well, first, you'll get different recommendations between the Black Forest and the Rhine valley, depending on the response. I enjoyed the Rhine valley, but I loved Gengenbach and the Black Forest area.

I actually found it very easy to get to and from Gengenbach, especially since Gengenbach is on a direct train route. But it depends on where those day trips from Gengenbach are. I stayed for 4 nights and went all over the Black Forest but also took a day trip to Strasbourg in France that was very easy to get to.

The Black Forest has many of the charming half-timbered houses and quaint villages you think of when you think Germany. You can visit them, places like the Vogtsbauernhof, a wonderful open air museum, and of course, take a day trip to Strasbourg, Freiburg im Breisgau, and so on. There are many opportunities for short hikes and walk, and it's quite uncrowded. Most American tourists have not really discovered the Black Forest area.

The Rhine, OTOH, has castles and ruins and ferries that will transport you up and down the Rhine River. So it really depends on your interests. :-)

Have you thought about staying in both places? If you have 12 days and 5 of those are in Munich, then you have 7 days left for ??? I'm a little confused about your itinerary and the amount of time you would have. But one option would be to spend say, 3 nights in the Rhine area (I would choose Boppard), and 3-4 nights in Gengenbach. Is that possible?

Thanks yes, I do really have enough time to do both. (12 days to get back to Frankfurt to fly home). The logistics of getting to Gengenbach at this point i have to sort out.
Whether to go there directly from Munich or via Rothenburg for example.
It does seem surprisingly easier to have a small town base rather than a city like Heidelberg to get around?

Options included; spending 2 or 3 nights in Rothenburg and then a night or two in Wurzburg en route.

Tiny Rothenburg is home to more international tourists per square km than any place I can think of in Germany. You really have to want to be rubbing elbows with these folks to stay there more than one night. Rothenburg is quite small and can be seen in less than a day. It is also a very poor travel base town, if you were thinking of day trips like you have in mind for Heidelberg.

Besides Rothenburg/Würzburg... I don't understand what is optional. All 3? Heidelberg, the Rhine (Bacharach), and the Black Forest (Gengenbach)?? or are you saying Heidelberg is for sure and the others optional?

I am not of the mind that any of these places is absolute "must-see" - what is it you are looking for exactly on this trip? That would help with the recommendations.

The Black Forest has many of the charming half-timbered houses and
quaint villages you think of when you think Germany. You can visit
them, places like the Vogtsbauernhof, a wonderful open air museum, and
of course, take a day trip to Strasbourg, Freiburg im Breisgau, and so
on. There are many opportunities for short hikes and walk, and it's
quite uncrowded.

The Rhine, OTOH, has castles and ruins and ferries that will transport
you up and down the Rhine River. So it really depends on your
interests. Most American tourists have not really discovered the Black
Forest area.

This description of the Rhine, for whatever reason, doesn't mention the many charming half-timbered towns on the Rhine (like Oberwesel, Bacharach, Braubach and others,) or the numerous walks that the Rhine is famous for (like the Rhine Castle Trail, Rheinsteig Trail, the Bingen city-forest trail, and many others; all offer stunning views) or the still undiscovered quaint Rhine villages (like Osterspai) or the dozens of nearby Mosel-River villages, or the open air museum in Bad Sobernheim (just a short detour from Bingen on the Nahe River.) All this as well as castles, ferry crossings, cruise ships that run upstream and downstream all day long, wineries, and excellent rail transportation as well.

The Rhine is a poor base for visiting Strasbourg, for sure. But that's France.

Not saying you have to go to the Rhine - only that it has a ton more to offer than just a river cruise, more than you'll believe if you spend a few nights there.

Russ, I'm glad you're adding your description of the Rhine area, but no need to disparage my post (and FWIW, I'm not familiar with any of the towns you mentioned, so why would I put them in?). Regardless, there's no crime in liking Gengenbach better. That's my opinion and you have yours. :-) You know the Rhine much better than I do, so that's why my description was minimal.

It does seem surprisingly easier to have a small town base rather than a city like Heidelberg to get around?

It can be, Karina. It really depends on the town and the city. Many of the other towns would be more difficult to base in, and some cities as well.

I'm glad you're visiting Rothenburg and Würzburg. I love both cities. Are you familiar with Tilman Riemenschneider? He was a German sculptor who was born in Würzburg and has many pieces there. Also St. Jacob's in Rothenburg has his gorgeous Holy Blood Altar, which is really magnificent.

Thanks for the responses so far.
I agree that Rothenburg may be a bit of a tourist obsession and there are probably many other similarly attractive and calmer alternative towns!

In summary I have 12 days after Munich and would like to spend it in say 3 bases. From there to explore the surrounds. It makes sense to stick to the basic region en route from Munich to Frankfurt from where i fly back.

The black forest is complicated to get to by train and for that reason I am for now putting it aside (unless a solution occurs...). I am thinking of making Strasbourg one base, so looking for two more. Definitely on the Rhine i will spend a good amount of time. (St Goar, Boppard, Bacharach). Walking, cycling, visiting castles and quaint villages.

So basically at this point I would like any suggestions of a fascinating and practical base between Munich and Frankfurt/my Rhine base. I have a DK book on Germany to consult this evening but would appreciate any recommendations based on real experiences! Maybe another town on the Romantic route. I don't have to go to Heidelberg but originally thought that it was a good centre to plan trips from. I like short visits to cities and longer time spent in villages/nature.

Thanks again

No offense intended, Mardee. The only reason I responded was to ADD the actual assets on the Rhine which your post did not contain - assets that are much like those in the Black Forest, which you did enumerate. Your being unaware of or not mentioning these assets is in no way something to criticize. The Rhine is very similar to the BF in those specific respects that you left out, something the OP deserves to know before choosing. That's all.

I actually did not grasp from what you wrote that you were advocating Gengenbach over the Rhine - and thus was not trying to argue the opposite way. The Black Forest, a place I VERY much like and have returned to on repeat occasions, as you probably know, is an awesome destination, and Gengenbach is an outstanding choice if the OP decides to go there.

Train convenience appears to be important to you... it is to me too. Not sure what sources you are looking at.

Here's what I would do for getting the best/simplest train rides departing from Munich to the destinations already mentioned. From the DB site:

Munich > Gengenbach:

Spend that 5th day (the 7th) in Munich but encourage your family send you off that afternoon:
15:58 - 20:28 Direct ICE train from Munich to Offenburg + one chane of train, 20:41 - 20:48 Direct regional train to Gengenbach

Munich > Strasbourg Sept 8:

Except for the 6:51, there are no direct trains to Strasbourg. All others have 1-2 changes of train, just like you would to Gengenbach. So I honestly don't see a big advantage for Strasbourg here. Strasbourg is an easy (and cheap) day trip from Gengenbach (special 24h cross-border ticket) and of course Gengenbach provides the free KONUS card train rides all over the place, as Mardee explained.

I am not sure what I would do here... The one-change options are most desirable of course, except that the layover times between trains are short and your second train is also by long-distance/high-speed train; I usually try to avoid these connections to avoid missed connections. Maybe try using the "increase the transfer time" box to see what looks best.

Munich > Rhine town (Boppard, my rec.) Sept 7:
16:11 - 21:18 Direct ICE train from Munich to Koblenz + one change of train, 21:30 - 21:44 direct regional train to Boppard

(Boppard is on the same line as Bacharach, Oberwesel, Bingen and St Goar, but Boppard has FREE transportation with a local guest ticket for outings nearby. And it's so close to Koblenz (where you can change trains for daytrip destinations on nearby railways) that visiting east-bank towns and Mosel River towns (Braubach, Marksburg Castle, Rüdesheim, Osterspai) by train is a simple matter.)

Munich > Heidelberg Hbf, Sept 8

7:46 - 10:44 and 9:47 - 12:44 are both direct IC and ICE trains (yay)

I would like any suggestions of a fascinating and practical base
between Munich and Frankfurt/my Rhine base.

Nuremberg gets a lot of attention from Rick Steves for its WW II stuff, but it is an outstanding destination in itself with a bevy of interesting museums, walkable old-town zone, the Imperial castle, and lots of pubs... and it's easy to reach from Munich... and it's an excellent base town for daytrip outings by train to...

Bamberg (UNESCO World Heritage old town)
Bayreuth (Margravial Opera House, also UNESCO WH)
Würzburg (Residenz, UNESCO WH)
Rothenburg
Iphofen (see also this link with photos, 2 pages.)
Bad Windsheim's open-land museum (the "Freilandmuseum")

From Nuremberg there are 5 good train connections to Boppard (may vary by day.) Look for departures at/near...

07:30
09:29
13:29
15:30
17:36

These all use a direct ICE train to Koblenz with one change of train for the 15-minute ride to Boppard at the end. Travel time is 4.25 hours or less.

Hi Mardee and Russ,

I appreciate your ideas and recommendations. Thanks for trouble with trains and i will for now have to skip the black forest at my own risk..
My plan now looks like this (though still open for other strong promptings e g BF rather than Salzburg :-I I have been to Strasbourg)

September
Munich (with son and partner coming from UK preferring to do quality time in one place)
3 - 8 and on 8 they fly back
Salzburg 8 - 11
Nuremburg 11 - 16 (visit Bamberg, Wurzberg, Rothenburg and more)
Boppard 16 - 20
On 20 Flung back home across seas from Frankfurt

Thanks for tip of increasing transfer time as i get flustered when rushing to find trains..
I read somewhere that you said to not book train tickets too far in advance. A few days in advance on the Int.bahn site?

Above should yield art, architecture, quaint towns, riversides, hills, hikes, food, history and peoplewatching. Brilliant!

Kind Wishes, K

I'd prefer the night of the 19th at a FRA airport hotel or at a MAINZ hotel (just 25 minutes by direct train to FRA) if I had a morning flight out.

The ONLY train I would book is the Nuremberg > Boppard journey. Book asap for a saver fare (read refund info first.) All other train trips in Bavaria can be done using regional trains and the Bayern Ticket day pass or the VGN Tagesticket Solo day pass (€25.50) for day trips from N'berg (use Bayern Ticket for Würzburg, however, as it's not in the VGN area.) The trip to FRA is also done by regional train, no pre-purchase... which ticket? Depends where you stay your last night.

The Deutschland Ticket (subscription) would nix all the day pass and ticket options for the regional trains and would be a good buy for you. One Ticket for all of them plus free use of trams, subways, buses in the cities. No hours limitations either. With this Ticket you'd need only the additional saver fare tickt for the Munich > Boppard ICE trip.

Hi Russ,
Thanks for your last input re trains.

How/where/when can i buy the Deutschland Ticket? It sounds as if that would much simplify the train journeys. (Subsdription) - what does that mean?

I think it's a good idea even if my flight is in the evening, to sleep at Frankfurt of Mainz for the last night.

The D-Ticket is a super idea, but subscription from abroad is a bit complicated.

DB general information on the D-Ticket:
https://int.bahn.de/en/offers/regional/deutschland-ticket

Subuscribe/cancel tips from the Man in Seat 61 (universally-acclaimed rail guru):
https://www.seat61.com/train-travel-in-germany.htm#Deutschlandticket

There are D-Ticket guru-posters on this forum as well with experience and wisdom to share about the Deutschland ticket. I am not one of those. All I know is that a few of the official transport associations in Germany (which handle regional transport ticket sales for their areas of authority) - the MVV for Munich, for example, and the HVV for Hamburg - maybe others too - have been singled out here as good sources for North American travelers to get through the purchase and cancellation process successfully. Poster sla019 comes to mind, and I think Mardee may have some advice for you too, but there are others as well. You can do a Deutschland-Ticket search to pull up dozens of threads on this topic.

Gute Reise!

a few of the official transport associations in Germany [...] - the MVV for Munich, for example, and the HVV for Hamburg - maybe others too - have been singled out here as good sources for North American travelers to get through the purchase and cancellation process successfully.

These are the best known. But there are also other carriers which are recommended for special cases. For example, if you want to book several tickets with one app, e.g. for family members, the app of the VRM is recommended (VRM = Verkehrsverbund Rhein-Mosel; please do not confuse it with RMV = Rhein-Main- Verkehrsverbund) . You can set it to English, it accepts credit cards and PayPal and you can easily cancel in the app (contrary to the MVV, which forces you to keep an email with a cancellation link).

Of course, there are also resellers like Tranzer, who have the advantage that you don't have to observe the cancelling date (the 10th of the month). The downside is that they charge about 5% markup and, most importantly, you're lost as soon as there's a problem with your ticket; their fine print boils down to the fact that they're not responsible in any case and for nothing (legally, that's correct, because they only sell the tickets for a small carrier that can't afford to set up an app). HVV Switch, MVV and VRM apps are all easily usable from the US. Don't try the DB app, they only sell the DT via direct debit from a bank within the EU (and they also have a bad reputation for timeliness of ticket delivery and response to cancellation).

Nuremberg gets a lot of attention from Rick Steves for its WW II
stuff, but it is an outstanding destination in itself with a bevy of
interesting museums, walkable old-town zone, the Imperial castle, and
lots of pubs... and it's easy to reach from Munich... and it's an
excellent base town for daytrip outings by train to...

Are you referring to Nuremberg Palace? I will take note of this.

Würzburg (Residenz, UNESCO WH)

I thought it is in Munich? Don't tell me that there are different Residenz in Munich and. Wurzburg?

I can see that Residenz, Nuremburg Palace and Rothenburgh ob der Tauber are very popular.

To be honest, gosh, I feel that Germany is a bit confusing for me because similar names which cause confusion.

Don't tell me that there are different Residenz in Munich and.
Wurzburg?

Yes, there are (I've been to one you'd mentioned but not the other).
Munich: https://www.residenz-muenchen.de/englisch/residenc/index.htm
Würzburg: https://www.residenz-wuerzburg.de/englisch/residenz/index.htm

"Residenz" is just a German word for an official residence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residenz

No, I was not referring to Würzburg's Residenz.

I referred to Nuremberg's Castle as the Imperial Castle, which is its proper name in English (German = "Kaiserburg.")

https://www.kaiserburg-nuernberg.de/englisch/tourist/index.htm