My apologies for this question - I really have tried to find the answer.
I am a New Zealand citizen
By the end of August 2018 I had used my 90 Schengen days
I spent 30 days in Schengen countries mid April to mid May this year.
Now I want to return to Germany for 90 days beginning 1 October
My travel agent tells me I only have 60 days in Schengen countries by October 1. I think I am eligible for another 90 days at the beginning of October.
I would be so grateful for some help on this
Margaret
You're allowed 90 days in any 180 day period.
In the period of 180 days before 1 October (which takes you back to 4 April according to google) how many days have you spent in the Schengen? From mid-April to mid-May is approx. 30 days.
So you’ve already spent 30 days of the allowed 90 days. That leaves you with 60 days if you enter on 1 Oct.
Your travel agent is correct
I am not a Schengen lawyer, but I say Margaret is correct. The 30 days she has used so far this year begin to roll off the back end of the critical 180-day period around mid-October and will no longer be in the calculation at all as of mid-November.
Margaret plans to start another chunk of Schengen time on October 1. Between then and mid-November she will only have accrued an additional 45 days. 45 fall days + 30 spring days is less than 90, so there's no way her total during the fall is ever going to exceed 90 unless the new trip itself exceeds 90 days. We have this, more or less (I'm generally pretending every month has 30 days):
Jun-Sep: 30 days
Oct 1: 31 days
Oct 15: 45 days
Oct 16 - Oct 30: 45 days (spring days evaporating)
Oct 31 - Nov 15: 45 days (spring days reducing to zero)
Nov 16: 46 days (total now increasing by 1 each day)
Nov 30: 61 days
Must return home in late December (a few days before Dec 31)
Basically, as long as you have a gap between trips of at least 90 days in which you are never in the Schengen Zone, you will remain legal. Margaret has a gap of 4-1/2 months.
The rule is maximum 90 days in any 180.
Forget last August, that is well over 180 days ago.
Mid April + 180 days = Mid October (approx, you will have to work out exact date). So at 1st October you have 60 days left.
At "Mid October" (~15th) you have 45 days left (90-30-15).
But now, as time proceeds, the earlier days in April are > 180 days ago, so no longer count. For every new day you use, one old day "falls off the end" because it is > 180 days ago.
Until 1 month later (Mid November), all the April-May days no longer count.at that point you have (90-0-45)=45.
Ergo, you can run up your full 90 days from 1st October.
Sounds complicated, but I hope you followed. It is actually simple, never exceed "90 days in any 180""
You Haven't given me exact dates, you need to work it out exactly with the exact dates, and count exactly 180 days.
The damn 90 days in 180 has always somewhat confused me but I think I agree with acraven on this one. When the OP entered the Schengen area in April it started her 180 day clock. 180 days from mid-April would take her to mid-October, so from Oct 1 to mid-Oct she would have 60 days to use. As she stays past mid-October those April-May days start dropping off of the 180 day period. So I think she's good to have 90 days on her next trip.
Although the travel agent is technically correct in that when OP enters the Schengen area on Oct 1 she has 60 days left, said travel agent may not be clear about the earlier days dropping off the 180 day clock on a day by day running basis.
Thanks Chris, we were posting at the same time, I'm just a little slower on the keyboard.
The answer is at https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/sites/homeaffairs/files/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/border-crossing/docs/short_stay_schengen_calculator_user_manual_en.pdf, A clarification of the 90/180 rule. It is a rolling 180-day rule that looks back from the date of entry. So on October 1, you look back 180 days and count days spent in the Zone during that period against your 90 days. Thus, your TA is right about having 60 days on October 1. What I don’t know is whether the days roll off as mentioned by other posters.
Have you looked into whether the Germany-New Zealand bi-lateral visa waiver agreement and the details of that agreement could be helpful for you? A lot of people, including border control agents and maybe your TA, are not aware of these agreements.
OK, I can see where I was wrong. I did not realize the 180-day period changes day by day.
So say her April visit started April 15 and ended 30 days later. The April visit 180-day period ends October 12. When she enters on October 1 she has only 60 days left, BUT after October 12 the April days start “dropping off the back” as people say, and she gets them back anew one by one. By mid-November all the days will be added back so she can stay 90 days from October 1.
The short answer (without all the calculating) is in the middle of page 1 in the document linked above: “Among others, it means that an absence for an interrupted period of 90 days allows for a new stay for up to 90 days.”
Thankyou to all the people who have helped me understand where I stand regarding the Schengen visas.
No, I am not a troll, Yes I am a kiwi and I am particularly well travelled. It is amazing how some people jump to conclusions. Even the visa expert in a large travel company had issues interpreting parts of the document outlining how will work according to my requirements.
I will have only had one month in Schengen countries (see first posting) over a period of 13 months but still not able to return and stay for 90 days. Most people would be looking for clarification in this instance.
You time the trip duration correctly you don;t need to prove the 90 days to anyone as long as the numbers are obvious. No Border Control staff person in the UK or Schengen has ever asked me about the 90 days, even when I back track into the country, a month or two later to fly out.
I suggest to contact German mission in New Zealand for a final valid answer.
The last time I looked, I couldn't find any online evidence that a US cituzen can currently spend a bunch of time elsewhere in the Schengen Zone and then have 90 days in Poland; I think that may no longer be true. I think the Danish loophole still exists but haven't sought a definitive answer. I may want to use that very loophole next year. France? I've never heard about an extra 90 dsys there and am doubtful.
Markk has the best answer for you. All I have to add is that you need to be very careful. If you overstay, even one day, they get you when you are exiting. No excuses accepted. The penalties can be very severe; e.g., €500 fines and/or being barred from returning for some years.
