Rain on the Rhine

My opinion: trains for rain, with better weather for Burg Eltz.

EDIT: I've been on a packed boat on the Mosel River during steady rain...forced to sit outside. It was a thoroughly miserable experience and one I will avoid.

Speaking of Burg Eltz, the way the weather forecast is at the moment, the rain should be done before we hike (unfortunately, I see no way to move the time of this site in our schedule.)
Is the trail likely to be muddy after some rain or is the trail something other than dirt?

I have ridden the ship down the Rhine from Rüdesheim to St. Goar on several occasions when it has been pouring down rain. It still looks lovely. The trains don't run very often, so you may find yourself waiting an hour each time. Get the most done by ship, and the rest by train.

Am I mistaken than the train still runs more frequently then the KD boat? We are looking to stop in Bacharach, St. Goar and Boppard.

Our original hope was to hop on hop with the boat but it does not seem to run frequently enough to do that with more than one, maybe 2 stops.

gm,

Just to clarify, Burg Eltz is on the Mosel. That does sound like a packed Itinerary! Having rain on the hike from Moselkern to Burg Eltz will probably not be too pleasant. Be sure to pack some rain ponchos or whatever.

This website provides some good information on the hike.....

http://www.bensbauernhof.com/burgeltzfrommoselkern.html

Mud the next day? Probably. Have sturdy shoes.

It is a long time until Sunday.

The low that is currently heading that way is up for a lot of waiting due to uncertainty of its route.

If you get it I will have a dry weekend. If I get it, the continent will be dryer.

"We arrive in Frankfurt at 8:40 Sunday morning, and then were going to head straight to the Rhine and hop on hop of the train to stop on our way to Koblenz for the night... We are looking to stop in Bacharach, St. Goar and Boppard."

There might be a bugaboo or two in your plans.

Presumably, you have luggage, and your plan is to lug it around these 3 towns while you sightsee. None of these small towns have station lockers. TI offices may or may not be open to hold your bags for you, but you still would have to mess with getting the bags to 3 different TI offices. So I'd strongly suggest that you book a room in Bacharach instead. Drop bags at your hotel. THEN visit St. Goar (10 minutes to the north) and Boppard without the hassle. The alternative, dropping bags in Koblenz first, will mean a lot more time on the train. Note also that Koblenz is just an average post-war city without a whole lot to commend it. Bacharach (or one of the other small Rhine villages) would offer a much better atmosphere.

"Then an early train and hike to see Burg Eltz right when they open to try and get back to meet the KD boat."

KD boat from where to where???? If you're catching a train back to Koblenz for a Rhine Cruise, this is problematic.

• The boat dock is a long walk from the station in Koblenz.
• If your plan is to catch the 14:00 boat in Koblenz, and you want to see the best part of the river (between Boppard or St. Goar and Bingen,) you will be on the boat for SIX HOURS. The first 2 hours south of Koblenz are fairly dull and industrial in parts. And you will pay a lot more for your cruise than the smart cruiser who targets just the best part.
• The smart cruiser takes the train south to Bingen, boards there, and ends the cruise in St. Goar (1.5 hours) or Boppard (2.3 hours.)

It sounds to me like you should re-organize this thing altogether. Here's one workable plan:

From FRA you take a train to Bacharach, Oberwesel, or St. Goar for overnight. Drop bags. Settle in, get some food. Catch the train south to Bingen and board the 14:30 cruise north to St. Goar (13:55.) Sightsee in St. Goar, Oberwesel and Bacharach that day - they're all just a few train minutes from each other.

The next day, do Burg Eltz and stop in Boppard on the way back for sightseeing.

If you CANNOT change your Koblenz room... Then on Day 1 take the train to Bingen. Board the next cruise boat to St. Goar. Board the train there for Koblenz to drop bags. Take the train south to Boppard for sightseeing if you're still up for something. Day 2: Burg Eltz, then St. Goar and Bacharach sightseeing by train. (Not the best 2-day plan but possible if you're stuck in Koblenz.)

Maybe I will bump this topic on Thursday and you can give me an update Nigel.

I guess I could have provided more details. We will be leaving our luggage at Frankfurt airport because after our 2 days on the Rhine/Mosel, we will be flying from there to Munich and will only be taking an overnight bag and probably another backpack if needed.

So full plans. Land in FRA, store bags, catch (probably S8 to Mainz) and then train on to Bacharach or where ever we decide to stop first. Continue on stopping and seeing till Koblenz. We had hoped to get to Koblenz to ride the tram over the river, but have kept this a flexible detail. With an early rise and train ride to Moselkern, we had hoped to be there when it opened and strive to be back to Koblenz for the 14:00 but if not we can catch up to the boat in Rhens or Boppard (which we might just do anyways so we are less rushed and to save money on the KD ticket since the section from Koblenz to Boppard is not as scenic). Not sure where to get off the boat yet but then train back to FRA, collect our luggage, hotel is near the airport, sleep and catch a flight to Munich the next morning.

It is worth noting that we are adjusting our sleep this week in preparation for the Jetlag but also felt that the stopping and walking to see these towns would help fight the jet lag.

"...we can catch up to the boat in Rhens or Boppard (which we might just do anyways..."

Boppard will mean FOUR hours on the boat (or longer from Rhens) if you see the most scenic part (to Bingen.) Getting off before Bingen is cheating yourselves.

OK, so Koblenz is a given - and you have only one night there and some sort of very light bags that you will schlepp along as you tour.

On Day 1 take the cruise first thing - otherwise, the train ride will "spoil" the cruise experience a bit since the tracks follow the river. This also allows you to see the best part more quickly! If you're on the 9:59 S8 train from FRA, then with your Mainz connection, your train will arrive at 11:00 in Bingen Rhein Stadt station; walk to the dock and board the 11:30 cruise boat to St. Goar (12:55.) It's so much faster through this scenic part - but NOT TOO fast - when you cruise WITH the river current - just check the KD schedules and you'll see this is true.

After St. Goar take the train 10 minutes south to Bacharach (13:19 or 14:19 or 15:19) for sightseeing. Then proceed by train (16:21, 16:28, 17:28, 18:21 from Bacharach) to Koblenz.

Day 2: Burg Eltz, then Boppard sightseeing by train. Note that you might want to leave your bags in a locker in Koblenz since you're returning to the Rhine and FRA via Koblenz after Eltz.

If you cannot make that 9:59 train out of FRA, then leave whenever you can... the next cruise to St. Goar leaves Bingen at 14:30, which gives you some down time either in Mainz or in Bingen. After seeing St. Goar it might be time to catch the train to Koblenz -- which means the next day you visit Boppard AND Bacharach on the way to FRA.

Bingen is a lovely place for a riverside lunch and views of the vineyards at one of the cafes or restaurants there:

Near the NH Bingen hotel
Zollamt Restaurant
Long river promenadein Bingen

"Am I mistaken than the train still runs more frequently then the KD boat?"

No, you are not mistaken. Between Boppard and Bacharach, from 9 AM to about 7 PM, there are 10 MRB (regional milk run) trains in each directions (one every hour) that also stop in St. Goar. There are also 5 Regional Express train in each directions that stop in Boppard and Bacharach but skip St. Goar.

In that same time there are only 5 boats in each direction between Boppard and Bacharach.

Depending on whether you go with or against the current, Boppard to Bacharach (or V-V) takes 1½ to 2½ hrs. It's about 20 minutes by train either way.

In my opinion, take the boat somewhere if you just want a boat trip experience, but the only effective way to go between towns is by train.

Probably the trains as it can get quite hot waiting for them. It did rain briefly for us in the Rhine while we were at Rheinfels Castle, but did not think really much of it. I actually rather liked the rain at the castle, but had to tred more carefully.

Ok Russ, I think you have convinced me...to be honest, you stare at schedules long enough, and you can't see anything new--and I had honestly not even thought to back track. But in this case a little back track is still a more efficient use of time. Also, we had thought that a 4 hour river venture would be nice and relaxing...but I am beginning to think that most think it too long to be 'stuck' on a boat.

So my question is this. We had planned on getting a happy weekend ticket for Sunday (since it would include the S-Bahn fare) and the Rheinland Pfalz ticket for Monday (during August till Sept 4 the ticket is good from 00:00 to 03:00 the next day rather than the normal 09:00 start time). So two questions. Will the happy weekend ticket get me the discount on the KD boat? And with this new itinerary, would you suggest something different?

And I really appreciate you taking the time to figure all that out. One other question. What are you using to reference the time tables. I have downloaded the PDFs from DB's web site for the time tables of the 471 route, but do you have something more convenient and easy...or have you just looked at it so many times you are an expert?

"do you have something more convenient and easy..."
DB itinerary page

SUNDAY:
Happy Weekend ticket = €44 for two. But it's cheaper this way...

Rheinland-Pfalz ticket (for Mainz and onward by train) = €28 for two; ALSO, regular RMV tix for FRA-Mainz = €9.10 for two. Buy both ticket types at the same time at FRA's Regionalbahnhof station. (Trust me on this price or I'll send you to the tricky RMV website. DB doesn't handle the local tickets to Mainz and won't give you the price online because they're handled by RMV, the local transit authority.)

Note also that if you require public transport within Koblenz, the R-P ticket is valid within Koblenz on buses. The HW ticket is not. FYI the R-P ticket is also valid on some ferry crossings (like the one in St. Goar.)

Any ticket to Bingen should get you a cruise discount.

Monday: Use the R-P ticket. That's great that they're allowing early weekday travel while you're there!! When you reach Mainz, you'll need to buy RMV tickets again to reach FRA. The R-P ticket doesn't cover that route.

"we had thought that a 4 hour river venture would be nice and relaxing...but I am beginning to think that most think it too long to be 'stuck' on a boat."

St. Goar is small and won't require a lot of time on your feet. If you need to just sit, there are several options there.

The "Landgraf" terrace at the hotel next door to Rheinfels Castle is one nice spot to relax in St. Goar. Quite a view. There are a few places in town with river views and some outdoor cafes on Heerstrasse (the pedestrianized main street as well not far from the KD dock.

Have a fun time.

Ok, so last question. I was going to purchase my R-P ticket using the app, which I did for my Munich to Strasbourg ticket (one less thing to have to keep track of). Has anyone done this and used it as valid proof to get the 20% as KD boats?

"I was going to purchase my R-P ticket using the app..."

There's no price advantage to pre-purchasing, and the R-P ticket doesn't sell out - you can always get it at a ticket machine . You need to get a RMV ticket at FRA, so you have a rendezvous with the ticket machine anyway. Well, the RMV DOES have an app you MIGHT have success with...

http://www.rmv.de/en/Fahrkarten/Fahrkarten_kaufen/RMV-HandyTicket/

The one thing pre-purchase does ensure is that you will not get a refund if you need one (in the event your flight has an unusual delay or is postponed a day or is cancelled.)

If you have ANY valid train ticket used to reach Bingen (or whatever KD town you board in) you should get a discount, no matter how you've purchased it or what form it is in. From the KD site...

"At any KD landing stage you receive a 20% discount on scheduled cruise fares upon presentation of your valid train ticket."

In the real world, non-paper train tickets should be no trouble on trains. but they may or may not be something that cruise boat employees are familiar with or trained to accept.

Paper tickets, purchased there, might be the lesser gamble, all things considered.

One more consideration - are you 60+? You get 30% at the KD dock w/ no train ticket.

Another advantage to pre-purchase is the ever worsening of the exchange rate (stock market dip Monday certainly didn't help). But it was more a matter of keeping my DB tickets in one place than it was about pre-purchase.

Just wanted to thank you all, esp Russ, for all the help.

Good news; with ever passing day, the weather forcast gets better and better. Now showing very little chance of rain at all (though now my Munich leg may have some rain.)

Does any one else have any experience using the DB app to get their discount on the KD boats?

Hi GM... we are on the same path, arrive in Frankfurt just behind you and head to the Rhine, Colmar, & southern Germany, winding up in Munich. We are actually staying in Bacharach. Bringing rain gear but crossing my fingers and toes for a bit of sunshine! Will be looking at your posts to see what Nigel updates. Good luck with your plans and gute reise! kathy

Kathy,
Perhaps a meet up is in order if we are ever to cross paths. You now know our itinerary from the gracious Russ. Couple of 30 somethings here.

But let me ask you this. We have a 4+ hour layover in Chicago (O'Hare) on our return. Any thing worth doing around there in that amount of time? We may entertain taking the hour to get down town and do something for an hour or less...but we have been to Chicago once before, so whatever it is, it would need to be worth the journey in and perhaps something we had not done.

Hi GM ... that would be fun... we are in our 50s but still fun..
Layover at O'Hare's a tough call. I see you're doing carry on.. so figure it takes you maybe 15-20 to get thru the airport. If you have to go through customs that might not be pretty..i only did it once and it was chaotic. Downtown is maybe an hourish by public transportation/maybe 30-45 minutes by cab (depending on traffic, and the time of day). Coming back you normally need to allow a couple hours to get through security, again depending on time and day of week dictates how crazy they are there too. If you can swing it there's tons of stuff to do in the city, Grant Park, Riverwalk, Navy Pier, Michigan Avenue, Rush Street.....
The airport is right outside the town of Rosemont who host a lot of conventions. I know they were developing an area I think called MB Financial Plaza that has some restaurants and shops. (Actually they opened a Hofbrauhaus restaurant there). I don't how much there is to do and see there but it's a closer diversion.
I don't fly out of O'Hare much (I prefer our smaller airport, Midway) so I can't really comment on what to do if you hang at O'Hare but I'm sure you can google what restaurants they have... but that probably entails going in and out of security.. :)
good luck.. hope this helps... any other questions, let me know and I'll try to help! Kathy

I don't think going into Chicago is a good idea. You'll be arriving at the International terminal and go through customs and immigration, which can take while depending on the staffing levels and other arriving International flights. Unless you are arriving from Ireland, where you go through C&I there.
Then you will need to transfer to one of the domestic terminals by the inter-terminal train. Then you will need to go through security again, and that can take some time. Being that it is at least 1 hour into Chicago on the Blue Line train and it will take time to figure out the ticket machine and wait in line, I don't see it happening.

The 4 hours I mentioned takes some of that into account. The lay over is actually 6 hours. 1:20-7:25.

If everything goes smooth, you have just enough time to go to the top of the Willis Tower and then head back. Not sure what else you can do in Chicago in the one hour of time you will effectively have.