Rail Passes vs. individual tickets - extensive and complex itinerary input sought

...I am certainly willing to sit down and figure out costs on a ticket-by-ticket basis if you all thought it would be useful....

You should since that is the only way to know if one method is better than another. A quicker why to do it would be to divided the cost of the pass by number of travel days. Then compare your daily cost of point to point. It will take some time to work through you other questions. It is a very tight schedule.

The last time I bought a pass (single person German Rail for 5 days) was in 2000. I later figured what I would have paid for the same trains as full fare tickets, and I just about broke even. However, I could have used different trains and saved money without taking much more time. And since then, there have been a lot of lower fares (SparPreis and regional passes) added that today would make individual tickets more attractive. Since then (9 trips) I have not used a pass, and I figure to have save hundreds of dollar a trip.

I'm not going to spend the time comparing individual tickets vs a pass for the German portion of your trip, but if you look at it closely (and take the time to learn all the ways to save) I don't think you will find a pass to pay for itself (but there could be other issues than just cost).

One thing to keep in mind is that, assuming the 14 yo is still under 15 when you make the trip, in Germany he (?), as well as the 11 yo will be free as long as you book them along with your ticket. If you get a pass, the 11 yo will still be free traveling with you, but those passes are only sold for 1st class. If you get youth passes for the 14 and 16 yo, it only allow them in 2nd class, so either you have to purchase adult (1st class) passes for them or sit in 2nd class (even though you paid for 1st class). With individual tickets or individual country passes, you can get 2nd class and save some money.

Munich-Salzburg: Bayern ticket: http://www.munich-touristinfo.de/Bavaria-Ticket.htm
Salzburg-Vienna: Westbahn: https://westbahn.at/en
Vienna-Passau: Consider a cruise with Wurm and Köck between Linz and Passau - or perhaps another segment. Check with Austrian Railways site and DB (German Railways) site for point-to-point ticket prices.
Passau-Nuremberg: Bayern Ticket
Nuremberg-Prague: Sparpreis fare on IC bus @ German Railways site (note that kids under 15 travel free w/ parents.) Price is about €42 total for the family if bought well in advance.
Prague-Dresden: Sparpreis fare, German Railways, or CZ Railways site
Dresden-Berlin: German Railways, Sparpreis fare
Berlin-A'dam: German Railways, Sparpreis fare
A'dam-Bruges: Unsure
Bruges-Germany: Sparpreis fare, German Railways (I'd suggest scheduling a stopover of several hours in Cologne - then continue journey to the Middle Rhine Valley.)

Frankfurt for 2 days? Maybe. I think 8/6-9 would be more productively spent in the Middle Rhine Valley and Mosel Valleys, both great places for family vacations. Castles, hiking, biking, waterpark, amusement parks, chairlift rides, summer bobsled rides, river cruises...

Burg Eltz, not far from Cochem, a short hike from the Mosel Valley town of Moselkern.

For local day trips there are day passes you can use in the German locations that will get you around inexpensively as a family.

Where to stay in the Middle Rhine Valley: One base town can work for the Rhine AND the Mosel, but as train travelers that base should probably not be Bacharach, and it should definitely not be Stahleck Castle Hostel. Every day you head out to the station for an outing means an intense uphill hike to the castle at the end of a long day. I'd recommend Boppard instead, which puts you closer to the Mosel for outings and Cochem. Stay at a location in town and within walking distance of the station, wherever you land, not up on the clifftops. St. Goar might work as well. There are numerous vacation apartments in Boppard and the nearby towns. We stayed in this St. Goar apartment for 5 persons overlooking the Rhine and Katz Castle:

http://www.loreley-apartments.de/die_4_wohnungen_rheinblick_en.php

Getting around the Rhine and Mosel and down to Mainz over 4 days: the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket (another day pass like the Bayern ticket)

I suggest Mainz for your final night prior to your flight out. It's only 25 minutes by direct train from the airport (€4.65 adult price, €2.80 for kids.)

I know you didn't ask, but to go to Switzerland and spend all your time in Lucerne/Geneva/Bern is unusual. The usual recommendation is to head to Lauterbrunnen or one of the towns above it (often Murren) to take in the Alps. The Swiss cities are perfectly nice, but not so different from other cities and much more expensive than most.

I've never been to Liechtenstein, but someone recently mentioned that it's not really different from Austria and Switzerland. I'd move that time to Switzerland and spend it in the Alps, or perhaps add one day to Berlin.

I'm crying over the allocation of only 2 full days to Berlin, but I am unusually interested in World War II and Cold War history. If your group is not, two days might be OK as long as you realize that the Museuminseln museums are huge and Berlin is spread out, often leading to considerable travel time between Sight #1 and Sight #2.

I don't think you can get to Liechtenstein by train.

Almost, Stan. The station for Vaduz is Schaan Bahnhof, less than 2½ mi from the center of Vaduz. There are a few trains per day to Schaan, mostly from Buchs, CH or Feldkirch, AT, However, there are also a lot of bus connections into Vaduz. But realistically, Buchs is only about 4½ mi from Vaduz, and you can get there by train.

The tickets that Russ has outlined above, some with advance booking and some with on-the-spot group rates for regional travel, will likely come out to the cheapest total, especially for second-class tickets. Most of your trips are not very long. Since advance-discount tickets go on sale about 3 months ahead of the travel dates, that's a key timeframe for making your decision.

Among the rail pass options, I would not choose a 28-country Eurail Global. The Select Pass for 2 - 4 countries comes in a maximum of 10 flexi days to use within 2 months, to cover your longest trips. To cover all 4, that price is currently $484 per adult and $456 per youth in 1st class. Whether or not the first-class price and seating is an enhancement or an unwanted expense depends on your perspective. We're always happy enough with second class. For the 10 days covered by the pass, you would not spend any time to purchase tickets, nor be committed to any particular departure time. None of these trains require seat reservations, but the Nurnberg-Prague bus does (bookable when your arrive and activate the pass). Remember that the sale passes are not refundable or changeable.

A Germany Pass covers a few routes beyond its borders, but not everything you're doing. "Extras" include the Nurnberg-Prague bus and the direct Brussels Nord-Cologne ICE train (4x/day). The current German Twin Pass special for 7 flexi days in a month would only cost you $199 per your 4 oldest travelers, which is pretty attractive. That doesn't work for your travel period, but other sales very well could be offered before your travel date.

Sounds like they are going to Liechtenstein with the car. Be sure to pick up a Swiss vignette at the border. If you drive on a motorway in Austria, you'll need one there too.
Ah, Liechtenstein. First prize in the contest is a day in Liechtenstein. Second prize? Two days in Liechtenstein.

Hi,

If you are considering the German rail Pass, a promo is going on now where you get an extra travel day. Bottom line on the pass, which takes precedence with you, ie savings or flexibility. Which is more important? That depends on your travel style. Getting the savings means you're locked in to that specific date and time of departure, ie, you've sacrificed the flexibility. I use both options, depending on the route and other factors particular to the trip. I don't recommend the Global Pass, way too expensive, you don't need it.

I knew that the forum's experienced travelers would help me! Thank you so much for your feedback, advice and strategies for figuring out the whole transportation thing. Now I have to do lots more research and work out a spreadsheet to figure out where we are going and when. Please continue to comment as long as you would like.

"Now I have to do lots more research and work out a spreadsheet to figure out where we are going and when."

Looks to me like you already put some serious work into that part. Probably a few adjustments.

"Do I do all individual tickets when the schedules go online and pick specific dates/times so we are fully committed to our itinerary?"

Fortunately you need not do all of them that way. The tickets for these legs can be excluded from your pre-purchase agenda since they are available right at the station:

MUC airport to Munich (not addressed above) - (Airport-City Day Ticket)
Munich-Salzburg - (Bayern Ticket)
Salzburg-Vienna - (Westbahn tickets, online or on the train, see website for details)
Passau-Nuremberg - (Bayern Ticket)
Day trips in the Rhine/Mosel region and elsewhere - (Local transit zone tickets or day passes are the go-to choice; you can get tips here if you re-post the specific day trips you have in mind.)

That leaves you 7 travel legs to pre-purchase online, I believe. The Sparpreis tickets (saver fares) do require a commitment to specific trains. For these 7 trips you'll want to lay out a schedule for yourself so that you purchase them online right when they first go on sale - prices will rise as tickets sell. Berlin-A'dam: You might look into flights instead. It's a somewhat monotonous 6-7-hour train trip.

Additional comments about itinerary: The 1-night stay between Munich and Salzburg... You might try Prien, exactly half way - see Herrenchiemsee Palace (on the big island in photo.) Also, I agree w/ acraven about Lauterbrunnen and Berlin.

Resource for apartments/accommodations in Boppard: http://www.boppard-tourismus.de/2-1-Gastgeber.html

Day trip suggestions from Nuremberg:
Franconian Open-Land Museum, Bad Windsheim (fascinating, easy by train)
Iphofen (walled town with art/wine emphasis, see photos in link, easy by train)
Bamberg (UNESCO World Heritage old town, easy by train)
And since you like beer... Bamberg pub guide -- Nuremberg pub guide

Happy planning.

Although most of us generally feel that one cannot make a rail pass pay, you might actually go it. Unfortunately, that is because you are spending entirely too many days using transportation! Looking at your schedule, I see about 18 travel days in 46 days total. That means only 28 full days spent in 19 places. Your schedule doesn't look so bad until you see that the first and last day at each destination is shared with another place. The actual travel time in some of those days is not too bad (for some it is), but you have to add packing up and checking out and checking in and unpacking. You will really have too much time spent in transit. You have scheduled some towns (eg, Passau or Geneva) as only overnight stops; a lot of others (Cologne, Dresden, Baharach) are just for one full day. Slow down and smell the tulips.

Lee's made a good point. Your itinerary format, whereby days (rather than nights) are used and then split between locations - "Days 21-22 Passau in the youth hostel, Days 22-25 Nürnberg" for example - makes it appear on the surface as though you have 2 days in Passau and 4 in Nürnberg when it's only 1 + 3.

"Days 12-13 Liechtenstein... Day 13 return car to Munich... Day 14 stay somewhere between Munich and Salzburg"

Were you planning to sleep in Munich on Day 13? Looks to me like you could just sleep in that in-between town (Prien?) on night 13 to save some move-in, move-out time. Also, you might be able to avoid driving into Munich proper if you dropped the car elsewhere. Rosenheim? Drop the car there and it's only 15 train minutes to Prien.