Question about trains in Germany

I was just thinking about TC's comment to not miss Wurzburg. It does seem to be a great city so I wonder if coming off our flight it would not work better to see Wurzburg instead of Rothenberg. Perhaps we could take in Rothberg the next day or maybe we would just have to skip it as I don't want to over travel. Your thoughts are very appreciated. This might change the above train information a little, but I think most trains were going through Wurzburg anyway.

I haven't been to Wurzburg. I have been to Rothenberg ob der Tauber, which I had thought about skipping because of its reputation for being a big tourist trap...but I liked it much more than expected. It was charming and fun, though I visited out of tourist season in April, when it wasn't crowded. I suspect I might not have enjoyed it as much near the summer tourist peak. Not sure when you are going.

It's OK to shoot for the 6:30 train as long as you understand what it means to miss the train (late flight is always possible). Do you lose the value of your ticket and have to book an expensive one at full price?

Also, make sure you are checking train schedules for Frankfurt airport (Flughafen) not the central station.

"Get a ticket directly from Frankfurt to Rothenberg which seems to cost 39.80 euros at this point."

I don't know what that covers or what dates or what trains or stations you are looking at. Riding the trains is easy. The ticketing is pretty complex. Some instructions for you...

To find schedules at the DB itinerary page: your starting point is Frankfurt(M)Flughafen (the airport) - not Frankfurt. Your destination is Rothenburg ob der Tauber. Both must be spelled correctly.

You will not have to forfeit tickets because of a flight delay if you ride the regional trains and buy tickets at the station. To find schedules for the cheapest regional train option - local tickets + Bayern Tickets - you must click on the "only local transport" box at the DB itinerary page.

You will find there are 3 changes of train - at Frankfurt's main station, Würzburg and Steinach. Between Frankfurt and Würzburg, the train passes through the Bavarian border town of Kahl, where your Bayern Ticket will kick in.

To get to Würzburg and Rothenburg in the same day (or to just go to Rothenburg)... You will buy both a local ticket (RMV) and a Bayern Ticket At FRA airport at the Regionalbahnhof station. Buy the local RMV ticket to Kahl at the station (€8.50 each) and the Bayern Ticket for two at the same time from a ticket machine. Total is €48. Then get on the regional train you found on your schedule. I see there is one at 7:02 from the Regionalbahnhof on the schedule I checked. Click on "show details" to see all the changes of train. The 7:02 departure will put you in Würzburg at 9:21. Get off the train, put bags in a locker, and do your sightseeing if you want to. After all that, you can get on any regional train to Steinach and Rothenburg that same day. The Bayern Ticket is a day pass that's valid at any hour.

But let's say you've decided to travel only as far as Würzburg on Day 1...

Tickets: Use the same strategy and pay the same price (€48 total) - you can then use the Bayern Ticket to ride public transport within Würzburg.

If you only walk around Würzburg you can save €3: RMV tickets to Kahl @ €8.50 each (as before) + normal DB ticket for Kahl - Würzburg (€14 each.) That costs you only €45.

Thanks so much! That is exactly what I needed to know about that first leg. Now we can decide which town to see -- or both. I think it is better for us to get the Bayern ticket (vs. individual tickets to Wurzburg) since we will be there on a Saturday and the ticket would still be good on Sunday, right when we head to Nuremberg?

Russ, while I have your attention when is the Tagesticket used vs Bayern? I am referring to Nuremberg to Bamberg, Nuremberg to Munich, and Munich to Salzberg. Thank you.

Liked Wurzburg, stopped in for a few hours between Nuremberg and Frankfurt.
Munich to Salzburg is also a Bayern ticket.
Salzburg to Budapest is a direct train on ÖBB. If you want to stop in Vienna (Wien) you can also take Westbahn train Salzburg to Wien Hbf (cheaper) then tour Vienna for a few hours before getting on your (pre-booked) ÖBB train to Budapest Keleti. If you book first class to Budapest there's a very nice lounge at Wien Hbf.

1) My son and I will arrive at Frankfurt airport early and want to take trains to Rothenberg on a Saturday. On Sunday we will be traveling to Nuremberg with a trip to Bamberg either that day or the next.
[...] We could use the Bayern ticket the next day to get to Nuremberg since it's a Sunday, right? ...

No, the BT is valid just for one day. From Rothenburg to Nürnberg and Bamberg travel on a VGN TagesticketPlus (€19.70 for the family; valid saturday and sunday). Buy it from a vending machine (the Rothenburg station is unmanned): 1. set it to English, 2. Press the VGN button, 3. select "Tagesticket Plus".

"Russ, while I have your attention when is the Tagesticket used vs Bayern? I am referring to Nuremberg to Bamberg, Nuremberg to Munich, and Munich to Salzberg....the (Bayern) ticket would still be good on Sunday, right when we head to Nuremberg?"

No. It's valid for ONE day only. Use the Tagesticket Plus from Rothenburg to Nuremberg, as sla019 suggests.

Travel from Würzburg to Nuremberg, Bamberg, or Rothenburg... use the Bayern Ticket.

The Bayern ticket covers an immense area - all of Bavaria.

The Tagesticket Plus (and all VGN tickets) cover only those towns and cities within the VGN zone, which is a sub-zone of Bavaria. Würzburg lies within Bavaria, but outside the VGN zone. While the Tagesticket Plus day pass has geographic limitations, it is very cool and more flexible than the Bayern ticket. If you read the link I posted above, you'll learn that it's valid at ANY hour of the day on ANY day, and Sunday is a bonus day if you bought one for Saturday. The Bayern Ticket has a weekday restriction to travel after 9 am and offers no bonus days.

Here's a map of the VGN zone with Nuremberg at the center of the spokes.

"Munich to Salzburg... And outside of Bayern: Salzburg to Budapest which I assume is through Vienna."

It so happens that I'm traveling to Budapest from Germany myself in a few months. I will be crossing all of Germany using high-speed, long-distance trains where available, starting from a town near the Netherlands border. I'll be making a stopover of 36 hours and spending 2 nights in the Salzburg area, then traveling by direct train from Salzburg to Budapest. I have already purchased a DB "saver fare" ticket for this entire trip - just one ticket to cover the whole business - for €49.

If your stay in Salzburg is similarly short, you may be able to do the same thing - one ticket at a big discount - by scheduling a stopover in Salzburg for a certain number of hours at the DB itinerary page. If that suits you, but you find that you need some tips to make it work, feel free to PM me with your travel details.

The Bayern is regional and local trains right? Does this mean we leave
from a different airport station as I think there are two....

The airport is not in Bavaria (Bayern), so you can't use the Bayern-Ticket from the airport. Kahl is the first stop in Bavaria on the route from the airport to Würzburg (or Rothenburg), so you can start using the Bayern-Ticket at Kahl. To get from the airport to Kahl, you need tickets for the local transit authority, Verkehrverbund Rhein-Main (VRM), for 8,50€ ea. That will get you from the airport to the Frankfurt Hbf (by S-Bahn or regional train) where you change to a regional express (RE) to Würzburg (with a stop at Kahl). The S-Bahn or regional train leaves the airport from the Regionalbahnhof, which is close in, under the building across the access road from Terminal 1. The Fernbahnhof, which serves long-distance trains (mostly ICEs) is farther out, across the Autobahn (by enclosed bridge) from the airport.

From Rothenburg to Nürnberg and Bamberg travel on a VGN TagesticketPlus

But Würzburg is not in the VGN, so the TagesticketPlus can not be used between Rothenburg and Würzburg. But Rothenburg to Würzburg (or v-v) is only 15,70€/P, so point-point tickets are probably best.

when is the Tagesticket used vs Bayern? I am referring to Nuremberg to
Bamberg, Nuremberg to Munich, and Munich to Salzberg. Thank you.

Nürnberg to Bamberg - VGN Tagesticket
Nürnberg to Munich - Regio-Ticket München-Nürnberg
Munich-Salzburg - Baern-Ticket

The fly/rail program does cover travel on the day of arrival and the day following arrival so it might be a good deal if you plan on staying over just one night somewhere and moving on the next day.

Hi,

thank you for the help above. This is a wonderful forum! I have two specific questions now that seem time sensitive:

1) How do I schedule from Salzburg to Budapest? It seems I could use the German, Austrian or Hungarian websites? The city we will be in the day before is Munich and Russ mentioned a way to perhaps get a ticket from Munich with a stop in Salzburg. Our plan had been to get to Salzburg the night before (could be changed to morning of, though) and spend a good long day there -- and then head off to Budapest that evening. Originally I had found (I thought) a reasonable ticket for Salzburg to Budapest, but could not yesterday. If you know how to do this do you mind giving me fairly clear details on how to get the actual tickets?

2) If I am able to get the fly/rail train ticket now after I already have my plane ticket can I use it for two days no matter where I go in Germany? I thought I had read you have to pick your destination and cannot go too far afield from that. We will leave Frankfurt airport to Wurzburg and then Rothenburg on Day 1 and then on Day 2 head off to Nuremburg. Thanks for any clarification if you have used this. For me to try to get it at this point, I think I have to call Lufthansa?

Thank you!!

To complicate this more, it looks like I could possibly buy a ticket from Salzburg to Vienna and then Vienna to Budapest that might be less?? I am getting this info from www.seat61.com but not clearly enough to proceed.

Okay on the oebb web site I have found (I think) two tickets for 78 Euros from Salzburg to Budapest for May 23 around 5 pm. I suspect this is an early rate so i would like to book it if you all think this makes sense. Should I also reserve seats ? Do I book and pay online and print out the tickets? Sorry for the details but I have barely taken the train in the US so am just trying to figure this out.

Your day in Salzburg begins in Munich, right? If you buy from the DB Railways site... you can get a savings fare ticket for two on May 23, priced at E79.80, which covers Munich - Salzburg - Budapest.

Lv Munich 7:18, ar Salzburg 8:58 (Railjet)
Stopover in Salzburg
Lv Salzburg 16:08, ar Budapest 21:19 (Railjet)

To find this fare search Munich to Budapest - AND - enter a stopover in Salzburg of 7 hours.

Both journeys are train-specific. Prices rise as tickets sell so buy soon if you are ready to commit. You can refund the saver fare in advance for a E20 fee if your plans go south.

I am not sure whether you must print this at home or if DB will mail it. Mine (to budapest) was mailed and arrived in a timely fashion.

Hi Russ,

Our original plan had been to travel to Salzburg the night before to get an early start there and travel on the Bayern ticket which presumably we would be using that day traveling around south of Munich that day.

However it would be possible to stay overnight in Munich and then do the plan you suggest -- leave Munich early for Salzburg, spend 7 hours and then head to Budapest.

If I understand it correctly there does not seem to be a cost difference so it probably just depends on our plans.

So do I make an account on the website or just purchase the tickets? Do you recommend I reserve seats?

Thanks!

A further idea -- is it possible to buy the Munich - Salzburg - Budapest ticket which appears to be the same price as the Salzburg -Budapest ticket and then not use the first portion (Munich - Salzburg)? If I buy today, as I want to that would keep our options open.

We may still find it useful to get into Salzburg the night before to start early in Salzburg and not get up extra early for the train, but it's hard to pin everything down right now.

Wow i am learning a lot by playing around on the German train site. Our day in Munich is not totally set -- we might go out of town for a day trip but could stay ---- therefore would it work to get a ticket for 79.80 euros and leave Munich the night before and then have a roughly 20 hour layover in order to leave Salzburg the next evening to Budapest. I got it to work with the 3 pm train to Budapest but would prefer the 4 pm train. Your thoughts?

Weirdly, when I try to leave Munich the night before and leave Salzburg the next day at 4 I don't get the saver fare. But when I put in the same time leaving Munich the night before and leaving Salzburg the next day at 3, I get the saver fare. And I believe I can get the saver fare from Salzburg to Munich. Any thoughts on this?

Do you want to leave Munich for Salzburg on the evening of 5/22 - and arrive in the evening in Budapest on 5/23?

If so, try this...

Search a depart from Munich on 5/22, 17:27 - and schedule a 21-hr. stopover in Salzburg...

You should come up with this schedule at a fare of €39.90 each as of now:

Ar. Salzburg 5/22, 18:58 (Railjet)
Lv. Salzburg 5/23, 16:08; arrive Budapest 21:19 (Railjet)

(Not all trains are eligible for the saver fare.)

If you prefer to use the Bayern ticket on 5/22. you can buy only the Salzburg-Budapest trip from OEBB.

Or you can use the Bayern ticket on 5/22 + buy the ticket from DB as outlined above from Munich to Salzburg - then you will have a choice of which trains you use - the faster Railjet at 18:58 or some regional train with your Bayern Ticket. On 5/23 just present the Munich - Salzburg - Budapest ticket after you board the train in Salzburg.

Thank you, thank you! You are a magician. I don't know how you got that to work. I really did try various combinations but could not get the saver fare with the long layover. This really provides us great flexibility.

One important question -- only my name is on the ticket but it does say 2 Erwachsene at the top. I am sure I ordered two tickets (and have two reserved seats) but only one name is listed?

The site did kick me out THREE times, but finally the task is done.

2 Erwachsene = 2 Adults.

Your companion does not have to be named.

Russ talked me through 3 day trips from Munich last May. His information was spot on.

I am so grateful for Russ's help. I really couldn't have booked that ticket without him. Also the info on regional tickets is very helpful too although I still need to plan those out.

Hello,

I wanted to clarify my first train leg from the Frankfurt airport to Wurzburg and then Rothenburg on a Saturday followed by Rothenburg to Nurmberg on Sunday. Can I use the Schones-Wochenende Ticket (50 Euros for two) for both days on regional trains for this trip?

My alternative is Kahl plus Bayern ticket from Frankfurt to Rothenburg on Saturday (16.50 Euros plus 31 for Bayern) followed by VGN Tagestickets on Sunday (19.7 Euros? - seems to depend on the zones?).

So the Happy Weekend ticket would be more cost effective if I am not missing anything or it is not useable for the routes above.

Thanks so much!

The Happy Weekend ticket is not valid for a whole weekend. It's only good for Sat. OR Sun.

So it's gonna be €17 for FRA-Kahl + €31 for a Bayern Ticket on Sat. Then on Sunday the Tagesticket Plus at €19.70 ( travel via Ansach; valid for the whole VGN network and for inner-city transport in Nuremberg as well.)

Ya know, there is one cheaper option... This would be May 18 and 19, correct?

• Use regional trains only (as you plan to do anyway) to Rothenburg on May 18:

Depart FRA 8:02, arr. R'burg 11:50 (or leave earlier, or leave later - anytime is OK)

• Travel R'burg to Nuremberg via Ansbach as usual - but catch the IC train betwen Ansbach and Nuremberg on May 19:

Depart R'burg 9:06 or 11:06; arrive N'berg 10:18 or 12:18. (train specific travel.)

You'd need to purchase a saver fare with a long layover to do this; the total fare is €49.80 for 2 adults - if you're interested, let me know and I'll explain how to do this. (You will run no risk of train ticket forfeiture if you have a late flight with this plan, btw.)

Hi Russ,

Thanks so much -- I was confused about the one day/two day on the Happy Weekend Ticket. Wow, the train system is tricky.

I like the idea that you are presenting in your last post. Can you tell me how to do that? I think we get in super early on our flight so hope to head out to Wurzburg as early as possible, spend part of the day and then go to Rothenburg.. Then Sunday we will go from Rothenburg to Wurzberg. Do I need to get those tickets in advance?

Thanks so much!

Would this ticket be train specific? if so, how is there no forfeiture if we are late on the flight? Thanks -- just trying to figure this out.

And yes it is for May 18 and 19. Thanks.

Sorry, it is May 19 and 20.

We could forgo the extended stop in Wurzburg too and go straight to Rothenburg -- we were not totally set on that.

OK, it works for 5/19 & 20.

5/19:
From: Frankfurt(Main)Flugh 8:02
To: Cheb

Enter 2 Stopovers:
Rothenburg 21:00 hours
Nuremberg 00:00 hours

You also need to go into "Connections - more means of transport" - and deselect the ICE, EC/IC train options for the first leg of travel from FRA to Rothenburg.

Then take a look at the details, You should have one IC train only from Ansbach to Nuremberg.

Because all the trains between FRA and Rothenburg are regional trains, DB does not care which ones you ride that day. Just make sure they are all regional trains only. The only train you must absolutely positively be on is the IC train from Ansbach to Nuremberg.

If you want to stay longer in Rothenburg on 5/20, scroll down the itineraries and select the one leaving FRA at 10:02, which should show a DIFFERENT IC train (at 11:50) and of course different, later regional trains from Rothenburg to Ansbach.

Cheb is a town in the CZ Republic. You will not go there. Once you reach Nuremberg you are done with your ticket. But using Cheb for a final destination has allowed you do the long stopover in Rothenburg.

The price is still €49.80 for two.

You can play with length of stopover if you like and probably find different results.

Russ, how did you come up with this fare? I'm amazed but serious -- how did you do it? I pm'ed you a few final questions and then I will book it.

I pm'ed you.

I've just searched for and bought a lot of saver fare tickets for Germany over the years and observed how the system works. I guess the best way to learn stuff you don't know is sometimes just to try it, then fumble and stumble around until you get it.

well you definitely have the system down! Thank you!