Question about Germany travel in May for 3-4 weeks

I think Cologne is an outlier, and honestly, besides the cathedral, I dont think there's much to see there. But the Middle Rhine region is worth seeing, and can be cruised. Mostly big cities on your itinerary and some smaller places would be good.

I think Cologne is an outlier, and honestly, besides the cathedral, I
don't think there's much to see there. But the Middle Rhine region is
worth seeing, and can be cruised. Mostly big cities on your itinerary
and some smaller places would be good.

That makes sense. I should also have said that I plan to use public transportation to travel. Although I could rent a car if needed.

Hmm, not a though about specific itineraries, but:

I am doing this partly to work on my language skills - I have been
learning German for the last 2 years and would really like to practice
it as much as possible.

If this is a main interest, it might make sense to stay longer in a few cities, so that you could get a bit oriented and find some opportunities to practice your German beyond hotel pleasantries.

Most medium-sized and larger cities, for example, have a Volkshochschule that offers lecture series and workshops and classes for which you could register (not language classes, although they do have those too, but things like cooking classes or whatever), which could be one thing to look into.

Also if you want to work on your language skills I’d head from Berlin or Frankfurt to the Harz Mountain area and stay in a medium size city. In the order of amount of English speakers who visit these cities I’d rank Quedlinburg, Wernigerode and Goslar from least to most. All three cities would be a good base for discovering the area and they are connected by a regional train.

Another region further south would be Erfurt, Leipzig, Dresden and Görlitz.

The region along the Bodensee has fewer native English speaking tourists with the exception of Lindau which is heavily touristed with Americans.

We have spent at least a month in each of these regions and enjoyed practicing our German as best we could.

If this is a main interest, it might make sense to stay longer in a
few cities, so that you could get a bit oriented and find some
opportunities to practice your German beyond hotel pleasantries.

Most medium-sized and larger cities, for example, have a
Volkshochschule that offers lecture series and workshops and classes
for which you could register (not language classes, although they do
have those too, but things like cooking classes or whatever), which
could be one thing to look into.

The more I think about that, the more sense that makes. Plus it will be easier not to have to pack up and keep moving every few days. And thank you for the reminder about the Volkschochschule! I meant to check into those and totally forgot! I will definitely look into taking one or more classes.

Also if you want to work on your language skills I’d head from Berlin
or Frankfurt to the Harz Mountain area and stay in a medium size city.

That makes a lot of sense, too. I have heard from native Germans that Berlin is a terrible city to practice your language in because everyone wants to speak English. I do want to see it and will probably spend a bit of time in the city, but after that I can get to some of the smaller areas and stay longer.

I didn't find Cologne or Frankfurt that special for more than a day. I did think Berlin was a great city. (Never been to Hamburg) Dresden and Nuremburg are nice along with Rothenberg ob der Tauber, Bamberg and Heidelberg and many villages along the Rhein starting with Bingen and heading northward to Koblenz.

Four weeks is plenty of time to do all, but it depends on your travel style. Some people can spend a month in one major city. Others want to hit the highlights in 3-5 days and move on.

Your route depends on your entry and exit cities.

With your current plan you'd be averaging maybe 3 nights per location and traveling (solo) extensively around the country. But with your language development objectives in mind, it's not truly necessary - or even helpful - to cover that much geography. I think Azra has already nailed it...

"If this is a main interest, it might make sense to stay longer in a few cities, so that you could get a bit oriented and find some opportunities to practice your German beyond hotel pleasantries."

If you instead had 5-7 days in just 3-4 locations, you'd probably find the language-learning "context" more well-rounded and advantageous... the less time you spend on logistics, the more available time for exposing yourself to those situational settings where you can negotiate meaning through language. The more you hang out in one place and the more visible and approachable you are, the more informal contact you will probably have.

Your choice of accommodation matters too. Hostels, with their breakfast halls (where you often share a table,) informal common areas, in-house bistros or bars, etc. are very good platforms for informal conversations, especially hostels that are popular for particular activities or sights nearby. There are often "Einzelwanderer" like yourself who want to discuss the museum they plan to visit or the hikes they did or are going to do. Hostels and hiking have been intertwined from the beginning, of course. The "Rheinsteig-Jugendherberge" in Kaub (Middle Rhine Valley) is just one of many Rhine-area hostels and inns that serve hikers exploring the popular cliffside trail of the same name. Stay there, and maybe run into a suitable hiking companion, or someone else looking to do a Rhine Cruise. You can book a single room or just a bed in a 2-3-4-bed-room in most hostels these days, whether it's a rural or a city hostel.

https://www.diejugendherbergen.de/jugendherbergen/kaub/
https://www.rheinsteig.de/en/rheinsteig/stages/upper-middle-rhine-valley-stages

And if you feel like a certain town might not offer enough to do over 6-7 days, check out the options nearby; Tübingen, for example, is relatively small and alone has little to offer for so many days but it could still be a great town to come back to every night after an outing into Stuttgart, or to Esslingen, or to Calw, or to Rottweil. The Neckar-River setting of the Tübingen hostel happens to be very special:

https://www.jugendherberge.de/en/youth-hostels/tuebingen-113/portrait/

City walking tours, brewery tours, castle tours, and the like are easy to find in the German Language (by comparison with English-tours) and can be great for developing your listening comprehension (and formulating questions you might have.)

Leaving the major cities and going to a smaller town is not a bad idea (although you really should spend some time in Berlin). But, think about where in Germany you do that as might encounter some dialects that can be harder to understand. I consider myself a decent German speaker, but on a trip in rural Sachsen a couple of years ago it was sometimes really hard to understand the locals. And if you leave Hamburg you might encounter people speaking Plattdütsch that is very different from Hochdeutsch.

About those dialects... If you were eavesdropping on bar conversations between local individuals using a dialect, it's true - you might understand nothing at all.

But if those same individuals are, say, leading a walking tour, or talking directly to a dialect-outsider like you, Mardee, they almost certainly will not burden you with their homespun dialect. No matter what size their town, and no matter what dialect they might have learned as small children, any adult who has been to public school in the last 50 years or so should be able to use High German - which is what you've learned back home - whenever the need arises. I think it's really only the very young, or the uneducated elderly who've never been off the family farm, who might lack this skill.

I did think Berlin was a great city. (Never been to Hamburg) Dresden and Nuremburg are nice along with Rothenberg ob der Tauber, Bamberg and Heidelberg and many villages along the Rhein starting with Bingen and heading northward to Koblenz.

I want to go to Hamburg because Lillestoff is there ( a large German fabric store). :) I also know a few people (online friends from Facebook sewing groups) who live in Hamburg and want to catch up with them. I sew a lot with German patterns so I can't pass up this opportunity.

With your current plan you'd be averaging maybe 3 nights per location and traveling (solo) extensively around the country. But with your language development objectives in mind, it's not truly necessary - or even helpful - to cover that much geography.

Russ, I think you (and all) are right. It might be easier to base myself in 2-3 different areas and maybe just take some day trips. And thank you for your detailed reply and the links! I've traveled solo through all of Europe and parts of Turkey, but have never stayed in a hostel before. Don't get me wrong - I don't like chain hotels and prefer staying in mom-and-pop B&Bs (or AirBnBs). I travel on a budget both for practical reasons and because I think you get a little closer to the country that way. But I might have to try the hostel route. I will say I have never had a problem meeting people during my travels - it's one of the many benefits of traveling solo. People go out of their way to meet you and talk. But a communal setting definitely would help!

Leaving the major cities and going to a smaller town is not a bad idea (although you really should spend some time in Berlin). But, think about where in Germany you do that as might encounter some dialects that can be harder to understand. I consider myself a decent German speaker, but on a trip in rural Sachsen a couple of years ago it was sometimes really hard to understand the locals. And if you leave Hamburg you might encounter people speaking Plattdütsch that is very different from Hochdeutsch.

Badger, I will definitely spend a bit of time in Berlin. It's an incredible city and I do not intend to miss it. With regards to dialects, as Russ said, most people can speak High German so even if I run into a bit of trouble, I can't imagine it will be too terribly bad.) And if they don't, I'll just smile and pretend to understand, like I did when i was crossing the Yorkshire moors years ago in England, and stopped to ask a local for directions. :)

I have 3 options for cities to fly into - Berlin, Hamburg or Frankfurt.

Is Munich an option to fly home from? If so fly into Hamburg.

Is Munich an option to fly home from? If so fly into Hamburg.

Munich is an option (I'll be flying Delta and it flies into four cities in Germany) but I planned on skipping Munich since I have been there before.

If you hub in Frankfurt for a few days, you can visit some beautiful towns, as well as see some great churches and a huge variety of architecture. The German spoken in Hessen is probably easier to understand than that spoken in Bavaria or in the Eastern cities of Germany. If you are interested in History, Frankfurt covers all the eras, especially if you visit the neighborhood of Höchst or if you are interested in Jewish history or the Holy Roman Empire.
Check out towns like Marburg, Limburg, Büdingen, Gelnhausen, Idstein, Michelstadt, Kronberg, Seligenstadt, and Mainz. You can use a Hessen ticket to get to any of these towns, or a day ticket from RMV. www.rmv.de
A bit farther away is the Rhein and towns like Speyer, Worms, or the Rhein gorge towns like St. Goar, Eltville, Ober-Wesel, or Bacharach.

I can vouch for the person who suggested the Harz Mountains. My husband and I along with our two kids have been in Quedlinburg all week. We've struggled with the language barrier because very few people seem to speak English (and we speak no German). Despite our bumbling around trying to figure things out, we've had a great time. Lots to see in the area if you like history. Tons of hiking too for the outdoor enthusiast. We've loved it here and would easily stay longer if time allowed.

If you hub in Frankfurt for a few days, you can visit some beautiful towns, as well as see some great churches and a huge variety of architecture. The German spoken in Hessen is probably easier to understand than that spoken in Bavaria or in the Eastern cities of Germany. If you are interested in History, Frankfurt covers all the eras, especially if you visit the neighborhood of Höchst or if you are interested in Jewish history or the Holy Roman Empire. Check out towns like Marburg, Limburg, Büdingen, Gelnhausen, Idstein, Michelstadt, Kronberg, Seligenstadt, and Mainz. You can use a Hessen ticket to get to any of these towns, or a day ticket from RMV.

That sounds wonderful - thank you! I love history and hope to experience as much as possible while I'm there. I'm getting more and more excited as I read all these wonderful posts!

I can vouch for the person who suggested the Harz Mountains. My husband and I along with our two kids have been in Quedlinburg all week. We've struggled with the language barrier because very few people seem to speak English (and we speak no German). Despite our bumbling around trying to figure things out, we've had a great time. Lots to see in the area if you like history. Tons of hiking too for the outdoor enthusiast. We've loved it here and would easily stay longer if time allowed.

I've added that to my itinerary - thank you! It looks like a wonderful area and it sounds like I will get lots of German practice in!

How about flying in and out of Berlin and Frankfurt? To keep your itinerary simple here’s an idea:
Day trips from Berlin Hbf by direct train to:
Hamburg Hbf (2h)
Dresden Hbf (2h 15m).
Direct train from Berlin Hbf to Frankfurt Main (4h 15m).
Day trips from Frankfurt Main by direct train:
Cologne Hbf (1h 15m)
Heidelberg Hbf (1h)
Freiburg Breisgau (2h 15m).
Nürnberg Hbf (2h 15m).

Hmmm, there's a thought. I always forget that so many places in Europe are close together. Thanks!

The dialect thing is one thing, in my experience, but like moving between the southern American states and New York, there are regional accents in Germany.

I learned my German in school from a teacher who was from the north, Hamburg I think, but 60 years on I may be wrong, and my first summer in Germany was in Köln which had a somewhat different accent and a few different word, especially when dealing with numbers. It was high German with a few tweaks, not significantly different. Zwo still sounds more right to me than zwei.

I took a month in the south of Bavaria (Kochel am See) and found both the accent and pace much more difficult to understand.

So my completely unrequested suggestion is immerse yourself in one place and really live and breathe it before confusing your brain with multiple variations.

At least for me that worked fairly well. 4 months was great. This was of course well before Schengen.

The dialect thing is one thing, in my experience, but like moving
between the southern American states and New York, there are regional
accents in Germany.

Yes, this is very true. A lot of people speak with regional colour even when speaking Standard German. We tend to conflate these two ideas (dialect and what I guess I would call 'accent' in English, although I would not use that word to describe it in German). But I agree that for learners or non-native speakers, it can add a level of complication, because the sound of the language and the rhythm can vary quite a lot from place to place, even when people are making an effort to speak neutrally. (A brief remark, though, "zwo" instead of "zwei" is a bit regional, but is found all over the country because of how similar zwei and drei can sound, the same with "Juno" instead of "Juni", to differentiate from "Juli". This is especially used on the telephone or so, when misunderstanding is easy from the sound quality).

About possible itineraries: I think you have received a lot of great ideas, and I think that Nigel's comment about maybe picking one (or perhaps two) main places (Berlin + something else?) would seem a good idea. Berlin seems important to you, and is a wonderful city. About what that second one could be: Somewhere in Hessen would make sense, perhaps--as Ms. Jo and MaryPat point out, Frankfurt has a lot to recommend it. Heidelberg might be another idea, if you want somewhere smaller but still near to good train connections. It is a Uni town, but is also quite pretty on its own. Actually, Freiburg and Tübingen from your original list also could be possibilities, although the train connections are less easy (Tübingen) or the city is simply a bit more far from things (Freiburg), although there is a lot to do in South Baden, especially if you like outdoors activities like hiking.

I rather think that you cannot go terribly wrong here. Maybe it would make sense to just assemble a list of possible second hub cities, and see which one "speaks" to you the most?

Otherwise, I really think you have fun plans! Let me know if you want help to brainstorm other ways to interact with German when you are here.

You want dialect? Come to my neck of the woods (Oberpfalz). Some places do turn it on for tourists (German tourists!), but it's all in good fun. Nürnberg is in Franken, but Bayern and the Franken dialects can be etwas Anderes too. My Frau spars with the locals in dialect in Bamberg when we visit (Oberpfalz vs. Franken).

I tend to stay for 3-4 overnights when traveling, but the larger cities like Berlin and Hamburg you might want more time. Find the local places off the international tourist track.

To add a little nostalgia... When the wall was still up, many West Berliners came to Franken and Oberpfaltz to the Fichtelgebirge and Steinwald for vacation. Things were cheap for them, Schweinabraten, Bier, Gasthaus etc. and quiet and safe in the Forests/Wald. They built entire tiny holiday home villages here. There was a time you saw many Berlin license plates just 15 years ago. The wall came down and people got old and passed and those days are long gone.

NIgel, thanks very much for your your suggestion, unrequested or not. That makes a lot of sense and logically is probably the best way to go. I'm not sure if I would be happy limiting myself to one place, though. I'm here partly for the language but also to see more of Germany. But I suppose if I picked something in the middle-ish, I could venture out in different directions for day trips. Something to think about, definitely. I wish I could spend four months there - I think now I'm limited to 90 days without a visa. But I can always go back!

Azra, I do like your idea of limiting to two places. That gives me some opportunity to explore different parts of Germany, but not get overwhelmed. I am interested in seeing Berlin but I'll be honest, there are so many times when I've traveled that I found many places not as attractive as I thought they would be. For example, I loved Amsterdam, London, Munich, Rome and Istanbul but was not so enthralled with Venice, Bruges, Athens, Paris and Madrid. I don't know what exactly will "float my boat" so I'm sort of playing Berlin by ear. And what you're also saying about assembling a list of cities makes sense - I think I will do that, based on info from here and what I find. Thanks so much for your thoughts! And I will definitely get back with you for help as I get closer to the trip!

mchpp, thanks for the suggestion! That looks like a lovely area. And I would love to hear your Frau sparring in dialect! :)

A few thoughts:

Language--there are regional accents AND regional dialects, and the two should not be confused. On the whole, standard high German is spoken pretty much everywhere, and while accents vary, it is mostly easily understood by all speakers of German, native or not. The accent in Bavaria is the exception--it can be quite thick. Dialects, however, are another matter entirely. Platt (here in the north) is actually considered a regional language and not just a dialect. Most German dialects are NOT mutually intelligible and often have variations within them that ALSO make them not mutually intelligible. People often underestimate this. Some dialects are more easily acquired (or passively so) than others. So be aware of these regional variations and what that might mean in terms of understanding locals sitting behind you at the restaurant. But high German is spoken everywhere, and almost anyone will switch to it if you are identified as a visitor, so mostly you will be contending with accents.

Be aware that in cities, people will often switch to English even when you don't want them to, while in small towns and super rural areas which get few tourists, you might have to work with very rusty English or even a refusal to remember what they learned in school. My uncle, who learned English in school 45 years ago and is regularly around my English-speaking family, doesn't really speak English and would be reduced to simple vocabulary/sentences and lots of gestures if he needed to communicate (he does speak excellent Platt, though, so I guess he's bilingual?) So if you want to practice your German, going to rural and untouristed areas is a fun exercise--if you don't run into too much dialect ;)

Itinerary: You can easily spend a month in Berlin alone. It really depends on what you want to see and do. Museums? Berlin and Hamburg have plenty. Hiking? Go to the south--Freiburg, etc. Water (sailing, beaches, shipping, emigration) your thing? Only the north will do. Castles? Frankfurt to Cologne is your route. Culture? We have many (see dialects ;) ). German history? Berlin.

You can cut any of the cities you listed except Berlin and Hamburg as needed. But they are all great--some more than others, some worth more time than others. If you are looking to explore the cities themselves, Frankfurt, Cologne, Nuremberg, and Dresden can easily be done in a day or two--obviously like anywhere, you can do longer, but for a highlights/best-of trip, you wouldn't need more. I am assuming for Heidelberg/Tübingen/Freiburg you are interested in the region more than the cities themselves, so plan your time accordingly there. Hamburg and Berlin take longer. I think Hamburg is significantly different from the rest of Germany, being the only real maritime city. But Berlin is bigger and has more intense history around every corner. Neither has a true old town or city centre in the traditional sense as you would find in most other major European cities, so you are more spread out. Hamburg has more regional attractions than Berlin IMO (but everyone knows I am biased towards "die schönste Stadt der Welt", but if regional attractions--more rural locations--is your thing, then any of the ones on your list will have them!

I have no idea if any of that was helpful, but I hope so.

HowlinMad, wow, yes, extremely helpful! I have heard that about the cities, especially Berlin. But I'm persistent and hopefully can explain that I am learning and see if they'll play along. My language skills are decent - I'm at B2 level - so hopefully can get them back on track. :)

Right now I'm planning on spending 4 nights in Berlin and then moving on, but since I fly out of Berlin back to the US, I have the option of coming back early and spending more time there. I definitely want to visit Hamburg - I know a few people (from online sewing groups) who live there and hope to be able to meet up with them, but also spend some time in the city. Can you tell me a good neighborhood to stay in? I like to be close to sights but prefer even more to have some cafes and restaurants nearby. When I was in Amsterdam I stayed in the de Pijp area and loved it. Hamburg will probably be my last city before I head back to Berlin.

In between I'm still up in the air, but I do plan to spend some time near Münster in a small town called Ostbevern. I just found out that my father's family came from there and I'm hoping to pick up some information there. In fact, there are several Ferienwohnungen that are very near to what I think was the family farm/home, so I may use that as a base and do some day trips to Cologne and so on. I still have to figure out transportation, though. I'd prefer using just public transportation - I'm not that fond of driving - but I'm not sure it's practical if I'm staying out in the country. I suppose I could rent a car for a few days but rely on the train or bus for the rest of the trip.

Anyway, you've given me more to think about. Thanks!

Ostbevern has a station about 5.5km out of the town. To Köln it is between 2H10 and 2H20 each way usually with a quick change in Münster(Westf) Hbf from one train to the next on the same platform.

That's kind of a long day trip. But you won't want a car in Köln.

I only have one year of German, and not a lot of language aptitude. In big places like Berlin, waiters always answer me in English when I order in German. Another language-practice idea besides Hostels (which don't appeal to me) is Zimmer Frei places. We can afford hotels, so I don't have actual experience there. I've seen a lot of Zimmer Frei signs while driving a car, which I don't want to recommend to you!

A post halfway back in this thread hinted at a fact we learned on our "Former East Germany" trip, which included an all-day drive out and back to Quedlinburg. (For the church treasury and town, not the language ... ) That is: On another trip, when my wife and I went to the Grunderzeit Museum in Mahlsdorf (suburb of Berlin), I was too late to book an English tour. I had to translate for my wife because our hostess said (in German, naturally), "When I was in school, the Foreign Language was Russian." This may be a clue to focus on major Ost locations (that have plenty to see and do), like Leipzig, Erfurt, Weimar, and similar. I was sorry to miss the Karl Zeiss museum (a specialty museum to be sure), but I'll bet some of the guides and guards don't like to speak English there. I wanted to go because of all the Zeiss planetarium projectors we used to have in the US, before Heavy Metal Nights required video planetarium installations!

By the way (not much German really needed ... ), I love Cologne. It is not true that the Cathedral (#1 tourist attendance numbers in the entire country, and some windows by Gerhard Richter ... and a great treasury) is the only thing to see. The "old town" is one of the weakest, but how about the Judenstrasse, the medieval mikveh, the Roman tunnels and excavations, the botanical garden, the Picasso and medieval museums ... I've been there twice, for a total of eight days. And that doesn't count next-door Duesseldorf:

The reason you want to go to D'dorf is because of the Longest Bar In the World (i.e. the Altstadt, not a single bar ...) You will be seated at a table of eight, already full with four to seven people. They will either HAVE to, or be GLAD to talk to you in German, every night. As I have stated elsewhere on this board, I was seated with three German chemical company duuudes, and the four Chinese middle-level guys who had come for days of training --- in English, I think. But all we spoke at the table was German, and while I bought my own food, my money was no good for alcohol.

Try to be in D'dorf for (Covid permitting) the one day monthly "Fish Market", which is really a riverside sausage, beer, and wine festival. Few fish are involved. You'll get plenty of German there. I also found little English in the D'dorf art museums. But one of the guards recognized me as a morning solo visitor when I came back the next day with the group tour I was there to meet up with! Nice folk.

Nigel, so maybe I should stop in Köln via train from wherever I will be previously, spend a day or two there, then head to either Münster or Ostbevern by train, and decide if I want to rent a car.

I looked up the Bahnhof in Ostbevern and the station is northwest of town, while the place I am thinking of staying is southeast - 8.4 km away. I don't mind walking but 8.4 km is a lot with luggage. I checked the DB regional train sight and there is public transport (I think a bus?) from the station to town and then farther down the road is a stop near Rottis Ferienwohnung, where I am thinking of staying. However, the busses are not frequent so I'm wondering if it would make more sense to stay in town.

Or should I rent a car for this area? I suppose I could pick one up in either München or Köln.

Tim, thanks for all the info! I haven't had Düsseldorf on my itinerary so I will definitely take a second look at it. Did you stay in Cologne or Düsseldorf? Just wondered which would be better for overnight. I would rather stay in one place and visit the other.

Patched together, I've spent quite a number of months in Germany and the furthest north I've been is Monschau. My German is still not the best, but I manage without any problems (I possess a vast arsenal of facial and hand gestures, and try my hardest not to speak English in restaurants). Almost all my stays are spent in small towns and villages, and I choose to drive.

You are set on Berlin and Hamburg (allow one week for each, check the local tourist websites and you'll get plenty of suggestions for things to do, including day trips). I've flown into Frankfurt four or five times, never set foot in Frankfurt itself. Nor Dresden or Cologne.

You say you want to skip Bavaria: Nuremberg is in Bavaria, so I presume you mean the alps region? Nuremberg is a good central hub with plenty of day trip opportunities not too far away - Erlangen, Bamberg, Bayreuth, Coburg, Regensburg (never been to the latter, always fancied it), Würzburg. On the way to Würzburg is the very attractive and little visited village of Iphofen - if you like hiking in the vineyards and enjoy a slow lunch, you can spend the day here. Rothenburg gets a some flack on this forum from some, I think it's a fantastic place to spend a day. Kloster Weltenburg is well worth a visit, not sure how long it takes to get there using public transport. Bear in mind, the cheap regional rail pass is only good after 9:00am weekdays, anytime on weekends (I stand to be corrected).

I'd choose Tübingen over Freiburg (second) and Heidelberg. Tübingen has a lot going for it in terms of attractive buildings, river walks, the university gardens, the palace and monastery up the hill. Easy day trips are Rottweil (ugly dogs) via Horb, Ludwigsburg (palaces, gardens and old town), Schwäbisch Gmünd, Esslingen and Stuttgart. I've never been to either of the latter two: one of my brothers was pleasantly suprised with his visit to Stuttgart – a modern green city surrounded by vineyards, it has a number of museums (including Porsche and Mercedes). For smaller places, Bad Wimpfen and Schwäbisch Hall are both really worth a visit: not sure of travel times.

Allow a day to leg it back to Berlin for your return flight.

Mardee, I stayed in Cologne, which is, culturally, the richer city. For my personal interests, there are many more museums with work by dead artists in Cologne than there are in Duesseldorf! The two cities are very close, so you don't need two places to sleep. However, Cologne is also famous for the number of sights (say, 75% of them) that can be reached on foot from the Hauptbahnhof. In D.dorf the HBF is not quite as conveniently located, and the sights are more spread out. Also, the HBF "area" in Cologne is not seedy or ugly.

This is an old data point, but one of the brewery/restaurants I liked in Cologne only served potato pancakes on Thursdays. It wasn't a particularly touristy place, like the (excellent) Gaffel is. Because Kolsch is served in 0.2 liter glasses, there is a lot of movement and ordering at such bars, a chance to chat. But I don't remember seeing shared dining tables in Cologne as in Duesseldorf. And I read in Lonely Planet that you don't mention "Kolsch" in Duesseldorf. (I wonder if their Altbier is served in 0.3 liter glasses as a rebuke to Kolsch!?)

Edit: The wonderful M.A.K. in Cologne covers hundreds of years, but has plenty of good limewood religious figures. The medieval museum has vast numbers of wooden sculptures, if not all at the Riemenschneider level. Many of them were made in the Burgundy/Antwerp areas. And that museum is twinned with the trendy, modern Ethnographic museum beside it. (Subway train needed from downtown Cologne.) There is also an important Kathe Kollwitz museum in Cologne, if not as big as the one in Berlin. It's not essential if you don't care for 20th century art, but it is essential for those with a WW II interest.

Gundersen, thanks for all this! I want to skip the places I've been before, which is Munich and lower Bavaria along with Salzburg. I also have been to Rothenburg ob der Tauber and I'm aware of some of the sentiment here about it. I found the town charming but the main reason I went there was to see the Tilman Riegenschneider wooden sculptures at St. Jakobskirche. They are breathtaking and I wouldn't have missed that for anything. I have heard other good things about Bamberg and Würzburg so a trip to that area does sound nice. And maybe I'd have time to stop in and see the Riegenschneider sculptures again. :)

And thank you for the information about Tübingen - I'm thinking that might be a nice place to stay for a few days or so.

Thanks again, Tim - I think Cologne sounds like a nice place to base myself for a bit, and then I can maybe rent a car on my way out and head up to Ostbevern to look for some family history. Interesting about the Kolsch - I don't think I've ever had it before but will definitely have to try it (that and the Altbier).

the main reason I went there (Rothenburg) was to see the Tilman Riegenschneider wooden sculptures
at St. Jakobskirche. They are breathtaking and I wouldn't have missed
that for anything. I have heard other good things about Bamberg and
Würzburg so a trip to that area does sound nice. And maybe I'd have
time to stop in and see the Riegenschneider sculptures again. :)

Generally speaking, Nuremberg, as Gundersen points out, is a good travel base / rail hub for outings to places like Rothenburg (about 1.25 hrs. away,) Würzburg, Bamberg, etc. - not the only option, however, and not necessarily the best one if you'd like to stay in smaller towns. While Rothenburg is smaller, it's at the end of a trunk line and maybe the most INCONVENIENT base town choice for outings by train.

A good base choice also depends on which places you wish to visit. [Here's a look at the rail network around Würzburg. ] (Note in faded gray print the location of Nuremberg to the southeast.) Certain nearby towns just outside the rail hub town of Würzburg share a rail line with W'burg and are also quite worthwhile IMHO, making W'burg a second possible base town for you. See links below to get you started on these nearby, lesser-known places...

Veitshöchheim
Ochsenfurt
Marktbreit
Sommerhausen (not shown on map but across the river from Winterhausen; 30 m. by direct bus
Iphofen (nod to Gundersen)
https://tramino.s3.amazonaws.com/s/iphofen/752858/160927-iphofen-ortsprospekt-eng-web.pdf
Bad Windsheim / Franconian Open Land Museum (Freilandmuseum)

Iphofen, besides being immensely charming, will offer you a look at some new RIEMENSCHNEIDER (no "G") works and spare you a repeat-trip to Rothenburg.

Despite being a lot smaller than Nuremberg, W'burg has a strong urban feel near the rail station. For better atmosphere, there's no reason you couldn't stay in one of the other towns mentioned. I have made attractive "Neustadt an der Aisch" a base town on two separate occasions. It's located quite conveniently on the main rail line between Nuremberg and Würzburg. Bad Windsheim could work too, I think, or perhaps Iphofen. Just go to the DB site to figure out what works well for the destinations that interest you most.

Russ, Würzburg or any of the others does sound ideal for a base (and I like wine). :) In fact the whole area you and Gundersen discuss sounds very nice. As I said, I was in Rothenburg before but only there, then I headed south. So I'm thinking at this point I might possibly shorten or even eliminate the Black Forest area from my trip and focus more here and then afterward head up towards Köln. I especially like the idea of seeing some new Riemenschneider works (oops, thanks for pointing out my typo).

Thanks for all the links and information! I'm off to DB to do some route planning.

I don't rank Frankfurt as highly as Cologne, but it is a good gateway to the Fachwerkstraße towns (as well as having some excellent museums and a performance program at the Alte Oper.) I post again because we happened to be there (sleeping in a postwar suburb, Kronberg, last stop on an S-Bahn line) August 20-Sept 2, 2017. They had a superb "urban" wine festival, on closed-off downtown streets. Lots of food and modest to high-end wines. Disclosure: I grew up in Manhattan, so I am not put off by urban environments.

I already recommended Ost-algia to you, but I forgot to mention the dazzling museum quality in Dresden. They have two large galleries, just of the two Lucas Cranachs! And both Green Vaults are once in a lifetime, do not miss. Advance booking essential, even before Covid.

Thanks, Tim - more to ponder. But planning is half the fun of traveling (imo)!

Sorry, that rail map I mentioned won't help you at all until I get it properly linked. Here it is:

http://cdn-06.wuerzburgerleben.de/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Bahnnetz_Mainfrankenbahn_u_Main_Spessart_Express.jpg

Ha, thanks, Russ!

They are all attractive cities.

In terms of reducing the travel distance, I'd say sticking to Berlin and Hamburg may be a better idea. There are also lots of places to explore in between. In addition to ICE, flixtrain (an open access rail company) also operates the route between Berlin and Hamburg. Early bird tickets are very affordable.

Another approach to planning is looking into the Landers train ticket and visit the regions covered by such tickets. https://www.bahn.com/en/offers/regional/regional-day-tickets

Even in Berlin and Hamburg, there are many ways to avoid the tourist-facing restaurants and shops so that you can practise German more. Maybe stick to restaurants and pubs which only offer a German menu? In any event, if you insist on speaking German, no one can force you to speak English.

I appreciate the founder of this forum is a publisher. For the benefit of language learning, you'd learn about very different perspectives about where to go if you read the German tourist guidebooks published in Germany or Austria. You can easily find them in a German bookstore.

Jeffreycwuk, I have been looking into the Landers train ticket and will undoubtedly take advantage of them. And yes, I hope to browbeat all those English speakers with my German (just kidding - sort of). :) And thanks for the tip about Flixtrains and busses - I'd looked at it before but keep forgetting to check back. I'm going to start plotting out some routes with both Flix and DB.

And that is a wonderful idea about using German travel guides - unfortunately there's not much in the way of German bookstores here where I live, but I'm sure I could pick up a few when I get there. Thank you!

One of our host's (Rick) suggestions is to walk two blocks off the main street before looking for a place to eat. We found that worked well in Berlin.

That's a good idea, Tim. I did that in Venice and found a small restaurant near the Jewish quartere that was filled with locals. I had my first taste of Grappa there (but not my last). :)