Prague, Austria, Germany, Switzerland. Trip got complicated, need itinerary help!

This may be helpful for planning your Rhine visit. Rhine Castle trail = scenic hiking. Nuremberg is a logical stopover on the way to Prague but I'd spend two nights minimum there. Nice place.

Muerren, Lauterbrunnen, and Grindelwald are all basically the same area, so you mean to spend 7 days in that region, right? Not another part of Switzerland?

Most people here would cut the time in Zurich, if that's what you need to make it work. Geneva doesn't always have convenient flights to the US, but maybe it does near you. I'd also focus on the areas that are new to you (new cute towns on rivers or lakes) rather than going out of your way to re-visit Lake Como and Milan.

Between the Rhine and Prague, Nürnberg is a logical stop because of the direct, railway-operated InterCity buses departing from there to Prague. Würzburg also works, one hour from Nürnberg by direct train. (Rothenburg ob der Tauber is less convenient, with extra connections each way on it's own little rail line.)

Thanks for the input, Laura and Russ. You both hit on Nuremberg which , upon reading up on it, sounds like our kind of city waiting to be explored. I don't mind giving up Zurich, that's what we did on our first trip also. Great air/train connections though...
As for the Rhine Castle Trail, looks too ambitions for us seniors, but must be really fun to do. We will catch a few castles on this trip, for sure.
As for the Swiss towns/villages I mentioned, yes, same area, but SO beautiful and we've only spent time in Murren. We MUST go back there, yet would like to spend just a bit of time elsewhere in those beautiful mountains and hills. Any suggestions will be considered. We did spend a few days in Lucerne and other places on the way to Murren last visit, though I don't remember exactly where we went.

I very much need instruction as to how we should best get from Salzburg /Berchtesgaden to Interlaken, ultimately to Murren. It is a rather long, complicated train ride. Must we go to Zurich then Lucerne, which is what we did last visit, or is there a better way from our Austria location?

You don't really need to worry about the route to take when traveling by train. Specify the starting and ending point on the Deutsche Bahn website and it will display the most logical itineraries. Click on each one to see where you'll be changing trains and the layover time. I'm traveling and using a tablet computer, so I can't cooy and paste a link for you, but Googling Deutsche Bahn will get you there. DB may not show a fare for that route, in which case you can look at prices on trainline.eu.

If you do find different route options and want to choose the one with the best scenery, come back here and ask; the Switzerland experts can help with that decision.

If you are flying out of Zurich you can still stay in Luzern. For one trip it was easy and well priced to fly into Basel (via Paris, but similar available thru Amsterdam) I think I'd rather stay in Luzern (I LOVE Luzern), Basel or Bern than Zurich. Not sure about train to Zurich from Bern or airport connections from Bern.

Just to let you know, I'm still with you. Just have been too busy to deal with this, (grandkids this week) but should get back to you tomorrow. I really do appreciate the forum help. I have been trying to find a decent OW fare from my closest airport, Sacramento, to Frankfurt. Not a very common route, but possible. I also would be interested in Sac (SMF) NS to GB or another European country, along with a short flight to Frankfurt on a low cost airline. I'll leave with that thought....

It's usually quite a lot more exoensive to buy two separate one-way tickets for a trip to Europe. Try choosing multi-city rather than one-way before beginning your airfare search. That will allow you to fly into one city and out of another.

Prague is great, but why 6 days. We did a thorough trip there for 2 nights.

7 days in Berchtesdagen and Salzburg! Same question?

Zurich is not my ideal for a tourist destination. Check out Interlakken.

"As for the Rhine Castle Trail, looks too ambitions for us seniors, but must be really fun to do. We will catch a few castles on this trip, for sure."

You probably don't want to be climbing from the riverfront towns up the steep cliffsides - see photo:

https://i2.wp.com/herbert-piel.de/wp-44b92-content/uploads/2016/01/Loreleytal.jpg?fit=960%2C641

But some of the trail options take you on short, mostly gentle walks that skirt the cliffsides. Don't deny yourselves the views... How to get up there in the first place? In Boppard, Rüdesheim and Cochem (Mosel River) there are awesome chairlifts that will spare your knees and offer you some amazing views. You'll find nice places to just hang out up there too.

Boppard's chairlift with nearby Gedeonseck terrace
Rüdesheim's aerial cable car lift
Cochem's chairlift

@geovagriffith: thorough trip of Prague with 2 nights? That's one full day. You can barely scratch the surface. You are right that 6 days would be more than enough for scratching the surface. But some people want to go little deeper and then not even 6 days is enough.

I have been trying to find a decent OW fare from my closest airport, Sacramento, to Frankfurt. Not a very common route, but possible.

Sacramento is also our closest airport, however I've found that the least expensive and most numerous flights to Europe depart from SFO. My wife & I took a very reasonably priced Lufthansa flight from SFO to Frankfurt last year, and returned on Swiss Air Vienna-Zurich-SFO.

The other options I considered, if SMF departure is required:

• Puddle jumper from SMF to SFO ( which adds $160 R/T per-person)
• Condor Air / Alaska flight from SMF - SEA (Seattle) - Frankfurt

Like you, I'm not a big fan of the 2+ hour drive back from SFO after a 13 hour flight & jetlag. Hopefully one of your friends or family members won't mind the drive.

I'm working on your replies. Hey! Where did the rest of my letter go? There were 11 replies! I guess I'm not doing something right??Maybe Steves' forum just shows the initial request?
Well, I'll try to figure it out. Know that I am working on your kind replies. Love the suggestion of the chair lift and other transfer devices. Steves doesn't seem to mention those particular ones, or I missed them.
Will also now search multi-city air travel.

My dad lives in Sacramento and I fly Icelandair from Frankfurt. Though it is a total of 3 flights, for me it is nicer than one long flight. You can even layover for a day or two in Iceland. The layover time in Iceland for the flight to Frankfurt is usually a quick 50 min. Get off the plane, go get o the next one. The flight from Seattle or Portland to Iceland is usually less than 7 hours. Their planes just have one aisle so you deplane quickly and their seats seem to be have more space than other airlines.
Perhaps that would work for you?

"Now add a change in arrival to Frankfurt, probably stay in Boppard or ? to do the rivers, villages...for maybe 5 days..."

About getting around and where to stay...

Boppard, on the west bank of the Rhine, is a great town that is well connected by train to Koblenz and to Bacharach, Oberwesel and St. Goar, the most common neighbor-town destinations. Here's a map with all the train stops on that side. (I wonder if Steves has ever been to Boppard - if he has, I think he largely ignores it.)

On the opposite side of the river... Rüdesheim (near Wiesbaden) and Braubach (south of Koblenz, home of Marksburg Castle) are probably the most visited towns on the east bank. Only... the thing about that side is... there are no bridges or train trestles from any of the small towns across the Rhine between Koblenz and Wiesbaden, so you either take the train north to Koblenz and then south along the east bank, or use a ferry crossing. Boppard has a ferry - you will need to walk a fair distance into the town of Filsen however to get to the nearest station on that side. The St. Goar ferry is more convenient. St. Goar since there's a train station right across the river in St. Goarshausen. So if you need to minimize your walking for whatever reason, St. Goar might be a better base town choice.

It is also possible to take a scenic ride to the popular Mosel River destinations of Cochem and/or Trier (see railway map, not all train stops are shown) once you are in Koblenz (about 15 minutes from Boppard.) Traben-Trarbach is a nice riverfront town as well (get there using the offshoot train line from Bullay.)

The VRM day ticket (and 3-day ticket) and the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket (which covers a much larger area) give you nearly unlimited access to the local and regional trains.

Lauterbrunnen and Murren are pretty much the same area. Unless you have some objective I wouldn't move from Murren to Lauterbrunnen. I would stay your 7 days at one spot. Grindelwald is on the other side of BO but still a short train ride from Lauterbrunnen. I like the Lauterbrunnen side better. I would not choose Interlakken as an additional stop on your vacation. It's close to Lauterbrunnen, and for most activities, Lauterbrunnen is better and more scenic.

My two favorites in Switzerland so far are Berner Oberland and Luzern. I wouldn't stay in Zurich. You could spend at least 3 days in Luzern and perhaps make a day trip to Bern if in your research you find it interesting. (We did).

I also did Prague in 2 1/2 days. That's as much as I could allocate to it. We covered a lot of ground, and really loved it, but I think a longer stay would be lovely. Both Prague and Cesky Krumlov can be very busy and that in itself might mean you'd need the full time you budgeted. I can't recall if I saw when you are traveling.

Depending on when you are traveling, the Rhine (and the Moselle) could be lovely. If you like to stay in one area rather than move a lot. Koblenz is a fairly central place to stay. I especially like the wine areas of France and Germany in the late summer/early fall.

Regarding the 7 days in Berchtesdagen and Salzburg, I think 2 1/2 -3 days in Salzburg is adequate, but more time would be enjoyable. Perhaps you'd like some time in Hallstat or other places in the Austria Lake District, so I think you could find plenty to do if you did want to stay the 7 days.

More helpful advice. Thanks. Ms Jo from Frankfurt: I have searched on many sites, including Icelandair and found no mention at all of their flying into SMF. (I'm ignoring all itineraries that include Condor. Those I can find.) How do you find the flight you describe, and at what price range? I have little choice but to get a OW fare, though when I figure out how YOU do your flights, perhaps I can try the multi-flight route. It is occasionally cheaper than a RT on rare occasions. As to the rest of the suggestions, I will continue to follow up. Yes, Rick does mention and seems to like Boppard. I believe I read that it is a quieter location in regard to proximity to the train tracks, so that has been the appeal. Plus, it appears to be quaint and old, but small compact enough to enjoy spending time in the village. I am certainly willing to consider alternatives. Where we stay may well depend on when we fly in so until I find plane reservations, much cannot be decided.
I do have what I've been told has become an important consideration. That is the quite possible need/desire for A/C in September and even in October. Weather conditions overall have been so hot this summer and last. At home we stay inside, but that doesn't work well for sightseeing trips. I know there are few historic lodgings that have A/C, but will look for the buildings with 3 foot walls and triple windows! Comments?

Don’t let any one talk you out of 6 days in Prague,it is a truly magical city and if you get bored you can do a day trip to one of the castles on the train.
I live in Cameron Park and I rent a Hertz car and drive to SFO and drop the car,we use Lufthansa to Frankfurt non stop and that works well for us.
Mike

Icelandair offers a nice option: $835 R/T, with a total elapsed flight time of 12 hrs 50 min. From SFO you have a 45 min stop over in Reykjavik, and onto Frankfurt for a 12:50 arrival. Just add a separate R/T 54 minute flight from SMF to SFO on United shuttle for $167 R/T and you're on your way!

@mike, the rental car idea is very clever! I assume that is so that you do not pay for parking.

I have found very good fares from SFO tp FRA now. Using the multi-destination was a great suggestion, and definitely allows a different departure city without having to pay the more expensive OW fare. If I can find a reasonable OW car rental from Auburn, that will be fine, though still means a long drive home after the return flight. I do have a call in to our HERTZ. Even an overnight at an airport hotel wold be cheaper than leaving from Sacramento. I am still hoping that Ms Jo will tell me how she gets her SMF/FRA flights on Icelandair.
I think what I need to do now is review our trip as a whole and decide how long a trip we need to do what we have planned. I also MUST make time to figure out the trains and buses involved and whether or not a pass of some sort might be in order. There are often good senior discounts that make them more worthwhile, though our distances are relatively short. More questions on that subject after I do some homework! Some of you have already given me some good sites that I need to look into. At one time I was pretty good with captain train. Guess I need to brush up. Having this forum is invaluable for me and I thank you for your time and for sharing your experiences.

I go to the Iceland Air website and put in my departure city and my destination city. Frankfurt to Sacramento and back again.

Non-stop option: I'm closest to SMF but prefer the non-stops from SFO to the continent (where we overnight going, coming, or both, depending on flight hours.) KLM has been a good choice for us... currently has non-stops to AMS RT at around $700 for your time frame. But for around $650 you can get a open-jaws (multi-city) non-stop into AMS - then a KLM-KLM one-stop out of Zurich (ZRH-AMS-SFO) on some dates (9/19 - 10/8, for example.) You're back in SFO before noon in the 10/8 example.

AMS airport is not ideal for flying in, but neither is it that far from the Rhine Valley by train, and the train station at AMS sends off frequent trains to Germany. We recently flew into AMS and spent our first night in Düsseldorf. Worked quite well.

One-stop option: One tactic I've used in the past is Norwegian non-stop to Stockholm (ARN) out of OAK + a separate flight and ticket (Norwegian, SAS, or Swiss) to the continent. Currently at the Norwegian site I see something along these lines that might work alright for your plans at $600...

$400 RT for OAK-ARN on 9/19 - 10/8... arriving 9/20 at 13:15 in ARN with a 17:00 pm SAS flight to FRA at $69. Return to ARN 10/7 out of Zurich ZRH - ARN on Swiss at $131 (overnight at ARN.)

You'll need to play around with dates to find what suits you of course.

My reply and most of this forum disappeared into outer space..... Apparently I'm doing something wrong! Basically, I thank you all for your help and wisdom. I will continue working on details of our agenda, but the trip is "on hold" at present until we see if the heat wave is ever going to subside. I talked to someone who did the Austrian Alps last October and it was still uncomfortably hot. We really can't do outdoor activities in the heat, plus few lodgings in our agenda have the option of A/C. So I am leaving this forum for now, but with luck, will be back for final plan help in the near future.

Delta flys in and out of Zurich via Atlanta and saved us a bundle on a trip to Northern Italy. $650 We also rented a car on that trip and really enjoyed the freedom, it was really pleasant driving in Switzerland. I agree with others who stated Prague needs a solid 3 full days, more for side trips. We stayed in a small village in Switzerland using AB&B and loved the personal touch of having a host and a home environment with full kitchen etc. With a car, you can quickly zip around and see sites that are off the beaten path. We really enjoyed Bern and the Einstein museum along with watching the river float activities of the locals. Zurich was much more enjoyable than we expected, we did Rick's walking tour and just took it easy, the airport is easy to navigate and efficient. The weather was very pleasant in early September.

I go to the Iceland Air website and put in my departure city and my destination city. Frankfurt to Sacramento and back again.