Is this too aggressive ?

I do not think so. It gives some time at destinations alhough too less at every destination but that is part of itinerary gamble.

You concentrate on our 5 largest cities which were all heavily affected by WWII bombings. Therefore and due to manifold history a lot of the best sights are located close to the cities but not in them, e. g. Potsdam palaces near Berlin or Lübeck's World Heritage old town as day trip near Hamburg. Maybe you want add some more unique sight salt to the "city soup"?

An idea was to stop on your way from Hamburg to Berlin in Schwerin for a few hours? Beautiful castle, nice old town elements (Schelfstadt) and a beautiful central lake (Pfaffenteich). Lockers are at Schwerin Hauptbahnhof (main station), and also very good bakery Junge.

Personally I think that Cologne adds a lot of distance to your plan and ask for the benefit. For sure Cologne Cathedral is really worth visiting. I would de-stress it and leave out Cologne for more time in / around Hamburg because it is a real different world compared to Munich. These cities could belong to two countries. For sight ideas see this thread and links in it.

With Berlin you can do nothing wrong - based on your interests. Weekend is wisely chosen before Marathon weekend (book early). Details later. Unfortunately Pergamon Museum (except worh-Seeing Panorama) and German History Museum are closed but we have aenough history (layers) to keep visitors busy for two weeks. For a TechTrainer maybe a short visit at Berlin's Tech Museum is a must-have and a different view on history?

Another on-the-way stop would be Bamberg (opt. Nuremberg) between Berlin and Munich - it is a direct train stop at a worth-seeing town. Worth mentioning is the World Heritage old town and also that Bamberg (as well as Nuremberg) belong to Bavaria but are more Franconian than Bavarian (kitchen, music, culture).

Book Munich asap - Oktoberfest is parallel.

So far from my side for the first round.

Happy planning.

I’d do it in reverse to avoid the high prices of Octoberfest in Munich. I’m not seeing many castles. I’d try to get in a day along the scenic part of the middle Rhine

Yes, it would be very advisable to avoid Oktoberfest due to the highly inflated hotel prices and unavailability of rooms. Oktoberfest is Sept. 21 thru Oct. 6 this year. As just mentioned in another thread, the Technical Museum (Deutsches Museum) in Munich is excellent, very large. One could spend a day or at least half a day there. I'd look it up online and see if it appeals to you. The Victualen Market area is very nice to wander around, a short walk from the Marienplatz.
Sounds like a great trip!

Thanks travelerguy, stephen, Markk -- great pointers. I had overlooked Oktoberfest, and have reversed itinerary.
Markk -- good point, I have taken out Cologne - cannot do everything

This means we will have hotel in 4 places :
Munich 4 nights - 3.5 days, Berlin 4 nights 3.5 days, Hamburg 3 nights 2.5 days, Frankfurt 2 nights 1.5 days

Revised itinerary :

1) MUNICH
Saturday : Sept 14 - Arrive Munich 10am
Relax - get over jetlag - light sightseeing Munich
Sept 15,16,17 (Sun,Mon,Tues) - Munich and surroundings

2) BERLIN
Wednesday, Sept 18 - Munich to Berlin morning train - 4 hours
Berlin half day
Sept 19,20,21 (Thurs, Fri, Sat) Berlin and surroundings ( day trip Dresden ?)

3) HAMBURG
Sunday, Sept 22 - Berlin to Hamburg morning train - 3 hours
Hamburg half day ( Shwerin on the way if possible ?)
Sept 23, 24 (Mon, Tues) : Hamburg

4) FRANKFURT
Wednesday, Sept 25 : Hamburg to Frankfurt morning train - 4 hours
Frankfurt half day
Sept 26 - Thurs - Frankfurt

Sept 27 - Frankfurt to SFO fly home

===========

Suggestions welcome -- Thanks in advance.

This version looks very good to me.

Journey planner for trains between destinations: https://int.bahn.de/en

Heads-up: Deutschland ticket is not for long-distance trains (ICE, IC, EC) but can make sense for all your regional and local public transport. You can buy it via BVG app which is also journey planner for Berlin.

Day trip Berlin:
Potsdam (recommended 1-day trip) with World Heritage palaces in Sanssouci Park, Dutch quarter, Museum Barberini and Bridge of Spies (Glienicker Brücke) is the best-matching for interests and obvious candidate to me. It is also very easy to reach with local public transport (buy ABC zone day ticket for this day). For a day trip cultural Dresden needs too much travel time imo - although worth a visit. List of more day trips in and around Berlin by VisitBerlin.

For other days in Berlin I recommend a HoHo bus on day 1 to get an overview. Top 10 list of Berlin's sights will help you to get started. For Reichstag visit / tour a pre-booking online is recommended. For or after dinner you can do a boat tour on river Spree.

Knowing age of daughter would allow recommendation for her as well.

Any more Berlin or Hamburg questions?

Thank you Markk.
My daughter is 26.

Question -- I am leaving only 1.5 days for Frankfurt ... don't have any wiggle room though. Any tweaks you can suggest ?
Thx

For Frankfurt I would search for posts from Ms. Jo. She is definitely an expert for Frankfurt. Although I am very familiar with parts of Rhein-Main area (around Frankfurt); her knowledge on Frankfurt is wider and more actual than mine.

Maybe she jumps in for good advice?

I think the train from Hamburg to Frankfurt is more like 5-5.5 hours?
For Frankfurt, it depends on your interests. Historical, medieval churches, Jewish culture, nature, museums (wide variety from Film, Bible, Archeology, History, Art, etc. etc.)

Instead of imagining that you "covered" Germany from north to south, I'd suggest leaving out Hamburg for a later trip to Northern and Baltic Germany, or maybe Copenhagen as well. Instead of Hamburg, in connection with Berlin, stay in Leipzig or Erfurt, depending on how much local travel you are willing to do. You'd want to consider including the UNESCO WHS Dessau-Worlitz Gartenreich if possible, and maybe Weimar, a target-rich smaller city. (And a public city bus to Buchenwald, if desired.) And the importance of the museums in Dresden (and Meissen) cannot be overestimated. I like Frankfurt fine, but it's also easy to find posts here that consider it a less important destination, unless you are a banker or a book publisher!

I like your new itinerary quite a bit better than the first one. MarkK is a resident of Berlin, so he knows the city well. I'm a frequent visitor. I've spent 54 nights in Berlin since 2016 and am adding on 4 more in about 2 weeks. I'm a visitor who loves Berlin -- not as much knowledge as a local but perhaps a good handle on the view of the tourist/traveller?

Love history, sights, architecture, selected
museums/castles/cathedrals, scenery ... usually follow Rick Steves'
audio tours or take local guides

Can you help me understand what you mean by "take local guides" -- is that using written guides, hiring local guides for private tours, taking group tours, something else?

If it means hiring a private guide, I highly recommend Robert Sumner. He was the 15-year-old son of a high-ranking East German bureaucrat when the Berlin Wall opened. He can tell his experience of the Berlin Wall opening and what capitalist product he bought first, as well as the one he held out the longest on buying/trying. He was one of the first East German HS exchange students with the US -- came with a mohawk, left with dreadlocks. He was a squatter, an anti-neo-Nazi street fighter. He ultimately got a PhD with a thesis dealing with prostitution in WWII concentration camps. His wife was a member of government. Very, very interesting guy. I've done standard Berlin tours with him, architecture tours, tours where we explored former Soviet military sites including the bunkers where nuclear weapons were stored.

I agree with Mark that Potsdam would make a great day trip and agree that all the sights he mentioned are worth seeing. My favorite thing to do at Potsdam, though, is to visit Cecilienhof. It's the palace that was used for the Potsdam Conference at the end of WWII. The conference room is still set up as it was for the conference, and the tour will take you to Churchill's and Truman's quarters. The audio guide is great. Highly-recommended if WWII ranks high on your list of historical interests.

I will gently and respectfully submit that a Hop On Hop Off bus has never been a part of my time in Berlin (or any other city). I would rather dive a little deeper into a city than what Hop On Hop Off buses allow.

Here's a great thread from last fall where someone asked what was the best thing people had done in Berlin -- https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/germany/what-was-the-best-thing-you-did-in-berlin

I started my above response while waiting for a flight at the airport and finished it after arriving at home. More posts were made between starting my reply and posting.

I agree that Leipzig and Erfurt are great places to visit (and involve less overall travel time than heading up to Hamburg).

Leipzig played a major role in the fall of East Germany with its Monday Demonstrations following prayers for peace at Nikolaikirche. The Monument to the Battle of the Nations is amazing. The University of Leipzig offers a nice stroll. Arts galore.

Erfurt is gorgeous. It faced relatively little bombing during WWII, so there are still a lot of old half-timbered houses in the city. Domplatz, the main square, is lovely. Willy Brandt Platz recognizes the first West German chancellor to visit the former East Germany -- at Erfurt! A large crowd of East Germans came to cheer Brandt, much to the surprise of Western journalists and to the embarrassment of the East German government. There is a nice merchant's bridge there. Erfurt was recently named a UNESCO World Heritage Site for its Jewish medieval heritage, including a medieval synagogue and medieval bathing area. History? The Topf und Söhne Site of Rememberance is a museum that explores how a "normal" company that sheltered Jews and communists during WWII also manufactured the ovens of Auschwitz. Nice parks including Egapark. I love Erfurt.

Thank you Markk
Thank you Ms Jo
Thank you Tim .... >>Instead of imagining that you "covered" Germany from north to south<<
No ... nothing like that :) just trying to make the best of available opportunities in the limited time we have, specially as we get older .. we feel lucky our daughter still asks us when and where are 'we' going on vacation.

unless you are a banker or a book publisher!
==> I got the point, Thanks :)

Thank you Dave -- you read my mind. I meant hiring local private guides. So far, our experience has been very good at all places.
Your tip about Robert Sumner is very good. I will look him up. Thanks so much for detailed suggestions ... very much appreciated.

Friends - after looking at all options, I have finalized itinerary :

Taken out Hamburg - instead do Leipzig + Dresden

Munich 4 nights - 3.5 days, Berlin 4 nights 3.5 days, Leipzig-Dresden 2nights 1.5 days, Frankfurt 3 nights 2.5 days

Revised itinerary :

1) MUNICH
Saturday : Sept 14 - Arrive Munich 10am
Relax - get over jetlag - light sightseeing Munich
Sept 15,16,17 (Sun,Mon,Tues) - Munich and surroundings
Day Trip to Neuschwanstein castle

2) BERLIN
Wednesday, Sept 18 - Munich to Berlin morning train - 4 hours
Berlin half day
Sept 19,20,21 (Thurs, Fri, Sat) Berlin and surroundings
Day Trip to Potsdam

3) LEIPZIG - DRESDEN
Sunday, Sept 22 - Berlin to Leipzig morning train - 1.5 hours
Take Guided Tour to Leipzig
Spend evening touring on our own
Hotel in Leipzig

Monday, Sept 23 : Day Trip to Dresden
Leipzig to Dresden morning train - 1:15 hours
Take Guided Tour in Dresden
Tour on our own after guided Tour

Dresden to Leipzig evening train
Hotel in Leipzig

4) FRANKFURT
Tuesday, Sept 25 : Leipzig to Frankfurt morning train - 3 hours
Check into Hotel (Marriott Residence Inn) or leave luggage

Regional Train to Waibstadt - visit friends (our neighbors 30 years back)
Train to Waibstadt : 12:06-14:11 OR 12:34 - 14:41
Train back to Frankfurt : 18:13 - 20:24
==> I know this part will get tricky due to Regional Train -- hope trains are on time.

Wednesday, Sept 25
Guided Tour of Frankfurt
Evening : Regional Train to Aschaffenburg : 45 min (visiting other friends)
Dinner
Regional Train back to Frankfurt : 45 min

Thursday, Sept 26

Open Day - visit Frankfurt

Friday, Sept 27 - Fly back home.

Pitfalls I need to be aware of , Comments .. please let me know

Thank you

My favorite areas of Germany are
1) Bavaria
2) The Rhine-Mosel area all the way south to the Black Forest.
3) Berlin area

Hamburg is OK, but consider skipping it and do more in the Rhine or Bavaria.

I like the latest iteration of your itinerary quite a bit. I was very verbose in previous posts so I will just say your plan for your trip looks great to me! Hope you enjoy it!

Thank you Dave
Thank you geovagriffith

Appreciate your taking the time to reply.
Cheers !

About what time of the day do you plan on getting to Potsdam? How much time are allowing for Potsdam?

How much activity do you plan on engaging in? The Tourist Office is located on the top level of the train station. Conceivably, one could spend 3 whole days more or less filled with activity and leisurely exploring

Potsdam is one my favourite smaller size towns in Germany. I would suggest getting there by noon or shortly afterwards.

Fred - Thanks
We are planning to do Potsdam day trip on the last day - we plan to be there by 1030-11am .. which should give us about 5-6 hours there. We will check out the tourist office.

Hi,

You're welcome.

One of the activities you might want to consider during the 5-6 hour stay in Potsdam , depending on the weather, of course, is the river cruise on the Havel. If it's a warm day, I would suggest that, the total duration time is 90 mins. r/t. You don't have to arrange it in the Tourist Office but where the cruise boats dock, ca. 10 min walk from the train station, payment by credit card accepted plus a senior discount.

Seeing Potsdam from the Havel , these historical sites, eg, Schloss Babelsberg is an eye-opener, aside from being serene and relaxing. The guided tour is given in English and German.

Sad about Hamburg, but northern Germany deserves its own trip!

One of the reasons people tend to be disappointed by Hamburg is because they have a vision of Germany, and Hamburg is not it--nor does it meet the tickboxes of castles and mountains and such. Doing Hamburg superficially makes it a disappointment; doing it right makes it a highlight.

You will have a great time regardless of how you do it.

One thing for Munich--I don't know when the Volksfest in Freising is, but it's like Oktoberfest without the crowds, high prices, or tourists. It's smaller, local, and a great atmosphere, and Freising is great.

Web site of the Freising Volksfest:
https://www.freising.de/kultur-freizeit/volksfest-2024

Thank you, Fred for Potsdam tips. I would welcome Sr Discount :)

HowlinMad - Hamburg was taking away valuable two days - we decided Leipzig-Dresden was a better option.
We also needed to be a little closer to Frankfurt due to same day trip to Waibstadt.

We will do Hamburg some other time, if possible.

HowlinMad & sla019 : Thanks for the pointer on Volksfest - we are there in Munich on the 15th (last day for Volksfest) - will try and include this on our itinerary.