Planning for Summer 2018 trip and have some questions

Unfortunately, I don't think there is a way to see all the things you want to see in the time you have, especially since you have to back track to Frankfort for your departure. I think you're going to have to prioritize.

In 2013, you were a family of five with 3 boys -- ages 18, 15, and 11. Is the same crew going on this trip?
What do you and the family want to see the most?

Have you picked up a guide book to see what Bavaria, Berlin, and Nuremerg have to offer?

WWII history is nearly everywhere in Germany, but there is definitely a higher concentration of sites in some places than others. For example, just north of the "romantic"/castle portion of the Middle Rhine are the remains of the Ludendorff Bridge, the bridge at Remagen that was the sole bridge the Germans did not destroy as they retreated from the Western front in WWII and that was used (briefly) by the Americans to cross the Rhine. Berlin has a LOT of WWII sites (along with Cold War sites). Nuremberg has the Nazi Rally Grounds. Munich is rich in WWII history.

I also agree that Russ will have good suggestions for you!

We want to spend some time in a nice town like Rothenburg and some
time in Bavaria. Want to spend some time in Berlin. Is Nuremberg the
number 1 place to see for WW2 history?

The others are right about your limited time. Berlin takes 4-5 days for most, so I suggest you skip it this time and split your week+ between the Rhine/Mosel region and the Nuremberg area (northern Bavaria.) Both areas make transit to/from FRA airport easy. Both areas have several "nice towns like Rothenburg", including Rothenburg itself, which, though nice, is a sardine can for packing in summer tourists. The Remagen Bridge Peace Museum is a good WW II destination, and Nuremberg itself is good as well.

There's no problem doing this by train - just locate accommodations near the train stations in two separate base towns, one in each area. Trains run up and down both river banks along the Rhine, and the Nuremberg area is a spider web of train tracks going everywhere.

To see the Rhine AND some of the Mosel River (Cochem and Burg Eltz castle for example) the towns of Boppard or St. Goar make for good bases for train travelers.

For the Nuremberg area, Nuremberg itself is quite good; consider it first since it's the sort of place where 1 day on a day trip from somewhere else just won't cut it.

Bavarian towns you can visit from Nuremberg: Rothenburg, Bamberg, Bayreuth, Regensburg, Iphofen, Bad Windsheim, Würzburg, and others... do some research to prioritize which day trips you will make.

From a Boppard or St. Goar base: day trip to Remagen, Bacharach, Oberwesel, Braubach (Marksburg Castle), Burg Eltz*, and Cochem; some of these can be combined into single-day outings.

*(Burg Eltz requires a train ride to Moselkern and then a walk through the woods or possibly a bus ride if it's a weekend.)

Try to get rooms or apartments within easy walking distance of the station. Boppard and St. Goar are small enough that most rooms already are. Nuremberg has lots of places near the station as well.

Rhine Cruise: Most people confuse this excellent sightseeing excursion with transportation. But it's not very good transportation for hopping off and on because of the limited boat schedules. You can do it most easily in one of two ways...

a.) On your way from FRA to Boppard (or St. Goar) get off the train with your bags in Bingen, and cruise from there to your destination.
b.) Once you've parked yourselves in Boppard (or St. Goar) take the train south to Bingen and cruise back to your home base.

It's best to cruise from Bingen north rather than southbound because of the strong river current (which makes a Boppard-Bingen cruise 1.7 hours longer than it needs to be.)

While I agree completely with the earlier responses about how much you can cover in seven days, I think I have very good news for you on the airfare front. Were you perhaps looking at two separate one-way tickets? That's not the way to look for what you want. Choose "multi-city". Your first flight is Chicago-Frankfurt on July 26 (right?), and the second is Munich-Chicago on August 4. (Or some other pair of cities after you adjust your itinerary.) On Google Flights I see options between $785 and $838 on some combination of United and Lufthansa, and you can get non-stops in both directions.

Re: " the #1 place to see for WW2 history." If you put it like that, then I would say Berlin, numerous places/sites I've seen in Berlin connected with WW2 history. You just have to know where and track them down.

My comment about #1 place to see for WW2 history isnt meant to offend.

I know we have 7-8 full non travel/get over lag days. Back in 2012 we did 3 weeks in Europe (London, Paris, Lucerne, Florence, Rome, Venice and Vienna) and 2 years ago we did 2 weeks in Scandanavia (Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Oslo, Norway in a Nutshell, Stockholm and ended with a day in London for Star Wars Celebration). So we figured we can do a tour of Germany in 7-8 days. Certainly not seeing everything. Our trip in 2012 caused us to head back a year 2 years later for a week in Tuscany.

So thought we could hit a couple major cities and venture out from them for day trips. Just picked up our Rick Steves Germany book yesterday.

Someone asked about our crew. This will be 2 of my sons (20 and 16), my wife and her mom. My mother in-law fled Germany as a child after WW2, so we couldnt go with out bringing her with.

Hi Keith,

Like others, I think you're trying to do too much. You mention other trips you've taken in the past, but those were, literally, two or three times as long as the one you are now planning. You will all be happier, I think, if you scale back.

You also mentioned your mother-in-law fled Germany after WWII. Where is she from? Does she still have family living in the area? That's the obvious place to start, as it has a personal connection to your family.

I agree with Russ - drop Berlin. A short trip won't do it justice.

Since you have an interest in WWII history there is a web site you should look at. It's thirdreichruins.com. It is indexed by location and has photos of places during or right after the war and more recent photos as they are today.

no offense taken...not at all.

Some updates.
Looks like now we will be flying into Berlin and out of Munich. Just need to find economical trips for my son to get to Amman Jordan followed by flight to Berlin and then return home from Munich that isnt outrageous.

Part of the reason of flying into Berlin is that my wifes mom's mother is buried in Bielefeld and she would like to visit her grave and maybe also visit Braunschweig where she grew up. So thinking we fly into Berlin and we are mostly interested in seeing the Reichstag and remnants of the wall. So we could arrive Friday afternoon and spend the afternoon and Saturday in Berlin. Then train through Braunschweig, Bielefeld and end up in Coblenz. Spend a day in the Coblenz/Rhine river area. Then train to

Day 1 (F): Arrival in Berlin - Meander arround to fight jet lag have a nice dinner and sleep.
Day 2 (S):Reichstag and Remnants of the Berlin wall
Day 3 (S):Train to Coblenz thru Braunschweig and Bielefeld. Train schedules give us about 3 hours each city.
Day 4 (M):Coblenz and see Eltz Castle
Day 5 (T): River Cruise to Mainz evening Train to Munich
Day 6 (W): Day 6 through 9 Munich home base. Day trips to Nuremburg, Neuschwansteing and Rothenburg like town
Day 9 (S): Return home

Thoughts?

Day 3 (S):Train to Coblenz thru Braunschweig and Bielefeld. Train
schedules give us about 3 hours each city.
Day 4 (M):Coblenz and see
Eltz Castle
Day 5 (T): River Cruise to Mainz evening Train to Munich

Cruising from Koblenz to Mainz is problematic. There really is no point in wasting an entire day (and that much money) on a river boat when you can cover the scenic part of the Rhine in much less time. Also, you'd arrive so late in Mainz that you couldn't make it to Munich by train.

KD boat schedule: https://www.k-d.com/fileadmin/kataloge/KD_Timetable_intern_2018_web.pdf

Also, your plan for the Rhine sadly omits the nicer old-world wine towns. Koblenz's main station isn't a particularly handsome location to spend 2 nights. While you could stay near Koblenz's small "old town", that requires extra bus transport or a lengthy walk that you will need to make upon arrival at Koblenz station and the next day prior to your Burg Eltz outing and again when you return. My preference would be to book in Boppard. It's a much smaller, more pleasant old-world town with a nice waterfront 15 minutes south of Koblenz' main station. On Day 4, Boppard requires extra time on the train to reach Moselkern for the hike to Burg Eltz, but on Day 5, a cruise that begins in Boppard instead cuts 2 hours of cruising through the less attractive river area near Koblenz.

Day 4: You should have time to visit both Burg Eltz and the nearby town of Cochem, then return to Boppard in the evening. I'd omit Koblenz.

Day 5: Cruise day... Suggest either...

a.) Check out, leave Boppard by train on Day 5 for St. Goar and see Rheinfels Castle; then board 12:20 boat in St. Goar to Bingen (15:00.) This saves 3.3 hours of cruise time (over boarding in Koblenz) and some cruise expense as well and focuses on the best scenery. Ending the cruise in Bingen instead of Mainz cuts 2.5 hours of really dull scenery and more expense off your cruise. Catch your train from there to Munich. Leave your bags at the TI office in St. Goar while you visit.

b.) Spend your morning enjoying Boppard (chairlift, shuffle over to Gedeonseck, and see town); board the 11 am cruise for FOUR hours of cruising through the scenic part (south) to Bingen (15:00.) Catch your train from there to Munich.

Based on your updated plan, you still have two days for Berlin. On the date of arrival after you are settled, go to the Invalidenfriedhof near the Berlin Hbf. ...ca 30 mins walk.

Russ and Fred thanks for the info.

When we arrive by train to Coblenz how would we get to Boppard? I expect we would arrive late evening. Better to grab another train or a taxi/uber service?

You will either stay on the train at Koblenz Hbf or change trains at Koblenz Hbf.

If you found your train schedule for your journey between Bielefeld and Koblenz, you can do the same for Bielefeld - Boppard - just substitute Boppard for Koblenz as your destination at the DB itinerary page. Then you will see the change (if any) in Koblenz once the itinerary options appear (click on "show details" at the left.) Looking at today's schedule, the last train of the evening bound for Boppard leaves Koblenz at 22:52.

Don't forget to register in advance for free tickets to the Bundestag dome -- I forgot to do this at home and their website was down the day I tried in Berlin so we ended up standing in a very long line to have our passports scanned (security clearance)

Any suggestions on places to stay in Boppard?

So we are booked in Berlin night of July 27th and 28th.
July 29th we will train to Bielefeld and spend the day, then train to St. Goarshausen.

Then in St. Goarshausen, which is on the other side of the Rhine from St. Goar, on July 29th and July 30th. Are ferry's the only way to cross the Rhine or are there bridges. On July 30th we will want to goto Burg Eltz and Cochem. Only July 31st we will take river cruise down the Rhine and then train to Munich.

Rest of the trip we will base in Munich and go on day trips.

"Then in St. Goarshausen, which is on the other side of the Rhine from St. Goar, on July 29th and July 30th. Are ferry's the only way to cross the Rhine or are there bridges."

No bridges between Koblenz and Mainz.There's only one ferry in St. Goarshausen - it crosses the river to St. Goar all day long.

"On July 30th we will want to goto Burg Eltz and Cochem."

You will ride the train from St. G'hausen to Koblenz and change there for the Mosel River destinations. The VRM mini-group ticket (a day pass) will get you to Moselkern station (about 1.5 hours) for the walk to Eltz as well as to Cochem afterward - and later back to St. Goarshausen - for €20. Ride any regional trains you like after 9 am. 9:32 would be the first eligible train to Koblenz. Buy the VRM day pass at a ticket machine in St. G'hausen:

http://www.vrminfo.de/en/tickets/tickets/ticket-offers/leisure-ticket/#c422

"Only July 31st we will take river cruise down the Rhine and then train to Munich."

The most scenic cruise is between St. G'hausen and Bingen or Rüdesheim. The boat south is actually "upstream" and thus takes a bit longer to cover the same ground... the 10:10 southbound boat (first of the day) from St. G'hausen takes around 4 hours to reach Bingen or Rüdesheim. So your train to Munich will need to be scheduled from one of those towns no earlier than 13:30 - 14:00. It will be 19:00 or 20:00 before you reach Munich.

If you want to get to Munich earlier you could try this... take the 8:26 am train from St. G'hausen to R'heim (8:51.) Board the 9:15 boat back to St. G'hausen (11:05.) Then grab your bags from your hotel front desk and take the train from St. Goarshausen to Munich (11:26 - 17:05)