Planning for 1st trip to Germany

Looks like a nice itinerary overall.
Since you're interested in WW II stuff, there are some Westwall bunker sites not far from Trier.

Your travel dates for these places will be needed if we're to suggest festivals or similar events.

I would try to get in at least one additional night in/near Bamberg. There's much more in the immediate area that you might enjoy... Nuremberg, Würzburg, Iphofen, Bad Windsheim...

"Arrive Stuttgart around noon pick up car and drive to Bacharach"

4 nights in Bacharach? In the interest of driving safety, I would not choose to add 2+ hours of driving immediately after a red-eye transatlantic flight when you might be facing jet-lag and general weariness as you navigate totally unfamiliar surroundings and negotiate road signage in a foreign language.

You're scheduled to arrive at noon, but it might be 1 or 2 pm if there's a flight delay, and even if it's on time, there's additional time needed to get through baggage, security, the rental office, etc. After all that, it's basically a meal, a shower, and a good night's sleep that you'll be after... and you can do that much closer to Stuttgart. I would shuttle to a nearby hotel and get the car the next morning. As you head north, make a stop in the Neckar River town of Besigheim, which advertises itself as Germany's most beautiful wine village. I think they might be right, too. Please check out the photos of Besigheim on the page below:

https://www.stadtbild-deutschland.org/forum/index.php?thread/2413-besigheim-galerie/

"Any recommendations for hotels/castle stays/inns/B&B's..."

Auf Schönburg Castle-hotel, roughly 5 minutes outside Bacharach, towers above the Rhine with incredible views and pretty stunning accommodations. Photo of Auf Schönburg from the river.

Other hotels nearby with superb views of the river include Hotel Rheinfels and the Rheinhotel St. Goar, a very nice place where DW and I stayed most recently; riverfront and balcony rooms are available there with maybe the best scenery in the Middle Rhine Valley of any in-town hotel. Excellent breakfast on the riverfront patio as well. This hotel and Hotel Rheinfels are just steps from the KD cruise boat dock in St. Goar (where cruises generally end their runs) about 10 minutes north of Bacharach. Here's the view from the hotel.

You should get lots of suggestions for Bacharach here from others as most forum members follow Rick's preferences (and he's very fond of Bacharach.) I've stayed in Bacharach before and I like Bacharach very much myself and would never suggest leaving it off your list of places to visit. But my experience in other towns like St. Goar and Boppard has schooled me to an understanding of the general convenience of making a base town in either the small St. Goar or the slightly larger town of Boppard, both a little way north of Bacharach, where there are a few more things to see and do in town (like Rheinfels Castle in St. Goar, like the chairlift and the developed waterfront promenade in Boppard) and where you are better positioned for outings (like Marksburg and Burg Eltz) and to other destinations. The car ferry in St. Goar runs well into the evening, another significant convenience, as there are no bridges in the immediate area. But a major thing for me is that Bacharach's hotels are tucked away well back from the waterfront. There's no such thing as a room with a Rhine view in that town, and there's not all that much to see and do there either.

Your itinerary looks really good, although keep in mind most of the cruises down the Rhine will be winding down around the end of October, as will many attractions like Burg Eltz, a popular castle nearby. So i would check carefully on the places you want to visit to make sure they're open.

Same thing when you get to Gengenbach (a lovely and charming town). You will still find lots to see and do, but I know that the Vogtsbauernhof open air museum closes for the season on November 5th of this year, so hopefully you will be there before that. It's well worth seeing. I stayed at the Stadthotel Pfeffermühle, near the center of town, and really enjoyed my stay there. There are some very good restaurants in town as well, including the Cuore di Puglia and Gasthaus Zum Turm.

What date do you arrive at Stuttgart?

I'm going to disagree with Russ here about driving after your flight. Driving after a flight is something that many forum members have strong opinions on - some for, some against. Personally, I think a lot depends on whether you can sleep on the flight. Some people can and some can't (I'm in the latter group). :) But if you can, and you don't suffer from severe jet lag (not everyone does), then I think you would be fine driving a few hours, especially since there is more than one to share the driving.

You don’t know about driving after the flight until you have done it and it might be different each time. I drove in England after my flight - first time on the ‘wrong’ side - and had no trouble. The next year I went with a friend who had been an experienced race car driver and he had a terrible time.

And I'm going to disagree with Mardee. Desynchronization is a real thing, whether you realize you are experiencing it or not. The amount of sleep you got on the plane will help with travel fatigue, but it won't affect desynchronization. If you arrive at noon in Stuttgart from the west coast, it's 3 AM back home
in California. Your body is asleep (think biorythms). Your heart beat, respiration, and mental acuity are all depressed. It's similar to being under the influence. I know people who claim they can function just as well under the influence ...

Twenty years ago, I flew into Frankfurt and tried to take the train 4½ hrs to the Oberallgäu. Despite my best efforts to stay awake, I fell asleep on the train. What would have happened if I had been driving?

I don't recommend driving after a flight either. Consider staying in Esslingen, just a short train ride from Stuttgart. Gorgeous town.

4 days in Bacharach is a lot. What are you planning on doing all of those days?

Hoping to get some input with our first trip to Germany

The best advice I can give you is that Europe is NOT America. Over here, if we go somewhere, we rent car, because at home our public transportation sucks. It's not that way in Europe, particularly in Germany. In Germany, public transportation is all you need. In twenty some years traveling in Europe, mostly Germany, 80% of my time in small towns, under 20,000, I've never rented a car.

Looking at your schedule, every town you are staying in is served by rail transportation. Experience something new; use public transportation.

From the airport in Stuttgart, go by train to Bacharach. It might take an hour longer, less if you figure the time to pick up a rental car, but you'll get there safely.

@ Mardee....You're right, not everyone gets jet lag. I don't. Sleeping on the flight helps.

While I do not recommend driving in Europe after a trans-Atlantic flight, I've done it a couple of times flying back non-stop to SFO from Paris or Frankfurt. That was driving back to SF from the airport after the Mrs. met me. There were a couple I drove, other times she drove. It helps too, I was driving my own car.

Mardee writes, "Personally, I think a lot depends on whether you can sleep on the flight." Exactly. And that's exactly why a nice itinerary like Robin's, which relies on a post-flight car journey - all the way from California - should not be jeopardized by a Day 1 schedule that requires supreme alertness.

There's no way to know what state you'll be in once your plane lands in Stuttgart, Robin, as there are just way too many uncontrollable factors which can deprive you of sleep in those 12-16 hours just before you get behind the wheel. Never once in all my trips across the pond have I accurately predicted in advance how alert/peppy or dull-brained/drowsy I would feel upon arrival in Frankfurt (or wherever.)

I've nearly always flown out of SFO or OAK. On those few occasions when I've rented a car (3 times, I think) I did not pick up at the airport like I would after the usual domestic flight. I either stayed overnight nearby or took public transport to somewhere else and picked up in the morning (or on some subsequent day.) The last time I rented, I first caught a train from FRA airport to Würzburg (around 1.5 - 1.75 hours) and picked up my car just in front of the train station there after my first night. It was a snap. The train ride to W'burg was stress-free... it didn't matter one little mousie poop whether I was alert or asleep. I would get my Autobahn skills test later... I recall being pleased with my choice to play it safe that time - and the other times as well.

And one should never forget that Germans tend to be aggressive and impatient drivers (I'm not excluding myself). You have to be used to driving fast and reacting even faster.

Traffic in and around any German city can be very stressful and chaotic. Only when you've had a good night's sleep and you're in control of your senses again you can drive calmly in the city. Or even really go full speed on the freeway - which is a lot of fun with the right car I would say :-)

For me, I’m good for 2-2.5 hours of driving after a long haul flight. For an upcoming trip we’re arriving at Frankfurt and rather than drive a couple hours we’ve opted to stay in a town 30 minutes south of the airport.

To the original question, while along the Rhine we intend on visiting Marksburg, Rheinstein, and Rheinfels castles. Since you are driving, in Luxembourg we plan on visiting the American Cemetery to see Patton’s grave as well as the National Museum of Military History (MNHM) . Near Gengenbach there’s also Maginot Line Fort Schoenenbourg and nearby bunkers.

As you will be driving in Austria ensure you get the vignette for the vehicle at the border so you don’t get a ticket.

I was in Bacharach the end of this January. Many places were closed then in the town and along the Rhein north to and including in Boppard. The only place we found to get something to eat was a Cafe, Imbus or Döner shop. You might check with the local tourist offices for end of October. In Garmish we like to stay at the Hotel Staudacherhof. We go back to La Baita for pizza there. My favorite place for Bier and Franken food in Bamberg is the Brauerei Fässle. If you free up another day for around Bamberg, then you could visit the Franken Wein Region; Volkach/Vogelsburg, Prichsenstadt etc.
In my working days, I would fly to the US for 3-5 days and just begin to get over jetlag, then return to Germany. I dive my own car and always drove the 1.5 to 2 hours back home from the airport. I'm used to driving in Europe though.
You only need a vignette in Austria for the Autobahns. Set your Navi for no toll roads. Definitely mind you speed in Germany and Austria with the "Blizer" speed cameras.

Visitors to the Rhine towns in January tend to be the owners of cars that break down.

October can't be compared with January. It is slower than September but not dead. Slower is actually a good thing - you can get a room in Boppard, which in September is a real hat trick at times.

Boppard has a big wine fest on the last weekend of September AND the first weekend in Oktober. Boppard is a major focal point for the heavily agricultural Rhein-Hunsrück region, and annually at the end of October Boppard hosts a Bauernmarkt (Farmers Market) that shows off the region's wares and draws a fair number of visitors.

To digress... We were actually in the Taunus in January and stayed in Schmitten. We had a relaxing week and there was snow. We did a one-day trip to the Rhein. It was nice, but not much going on. Only a handful of tourists then. The few of us joked about it (German). We also enjoyed a day in Wiesbaden, and I can recommend it if you have time. We've been to the Rhein in summer months. I did not see any broken-down cars? Something new are the Ukrainian refugees/immigrants.

Wow - thank you all for so much information and opinions... I am taking all of your thoughts into consideration, all very valid points. And now I am now re-working the itinerary. Loved all the recommendations of the hotels and eateries - have logged them in my notes. Also the WWII sights info - I'm sure will be of interest to my husband and our travel buddy.
Love these travel Forums - just as good as travel books or even better for inside information and recommendations.

Here's the dates I have so far, but as we know nothing is in stone right now.

Leave LAX 10/23 - arrive Stuttgart 10/24 (noon-ish)
Probably stay in or near Stuttgart for at least a day. Maybe 2, just found out that our friend who is with us wants to try to drive the track at Porsche, so depending on when or if he can get a time determines the stay.

10/26 leave for Bacharach (or another town nearby) - TY, Russ, for the heads up on the hotels with water views!

10/29 onto Bastogne, Belgium ( Battle of Bulge tour) stay 1 nite ( hopefully depending on tour time)

10/30 Trier (was going to be heading to Gengenbach (3+ hour drive (?) but thought might be better to stay someplace closer to
Belgium) Any thoughts?

10/31 or 11/1 Gengenbach 3 nights

11/3-4 head to Garmish for 3 nights

11/7-8 onto Salzberg 3 nights

11/10- Munich (2 or 3 nights)

11/12-15 Bamberg area

11/15 Back to Stuttgart to stay by airport for flight home 11/16.

I haven't mentioned any of the sights we are going to see - that is still a work in progress.
Also we have decided we would rather drive instead of use trains (which we have done before) because the 3 of us are in our 70's and lifting luggage up and down a train isn't as easy as it used to be. Plus we like the independence of being able to stop on the road when we see something that interests us whether a sight, town, village or eatery.
Danke for all your help so far, and any other things you would like to pass along!

Festivals, fairs: Somewhat scarce in Germany in late October. The Bauernmarkt in Boppard that I mentioned above takes place on Sunday 10/29 - with Sunday hours for shopping in the normal shops (Sunday shopping in Germany is taboo with certain exceptions like this one - "mit verkaufsoffenem Sonntag" at the first link below indicates this exception.) This is not a high-octane festival by any means, but it is more than just your average small-town market event and it would very likely shine some light on local life. If you can reorder your initial destinations to Stuttgart > Bastogne > Rhine town, perhaps you'd enjoy the experience.

https://www.romantischer-rhein.de/en/e-bauernmarkt-boppard-mit-verkaufsoffenem-sonntag

https://www.rhein-zeitung.de/cms_media/module_img/2439/1219577_1_socialmedia_sub_bauernmarkt02.jpg

https://www.rhein-zeitung.de/cms_media/module_img/3177/1588656_1_largegalleryimage_434389817.jpeg

https://www.rhein-zeitung.de/cms_media/module_img/982/491059_1_largegalleryimage_491059_1_org_sub_bauernmarkt0411.jpg

More information on Boppard: https://www.boppard-tourismus.de/media/was-ist-wo-broschu__re_en_190219.pdf

Thanks for the info, Russ - Sounds like a great idea to switch up the route. The Market looks like something we definitely would want to see.

One more idea, if you're there early enough:
https://www.buga23.de/englisch/

We went to a previous BUGA, in Koblenz, and enjoyed it. I think we bought a multi-day ticket, because it tends to be very big.

Tim, that would have been something we might have gone to, since one of our group used to own a plant nursery, but looks like it's only open till Oct. 8th and we're in Germany at the end of October. Thanks for the idea!