Personal Opinions Appreciated - Itinerary Help

If it were me, I would cut Berlin and Salzburg by one day each (this still gives your daughter her must see amounts of time) to allow other stops, such as Rhine or Rothenburg(in general area of Munich, as is Neuschweinstein Castle). There is some beautiful scenery in the Salzburg area and in my opinion, one day in Salzburg itself would be enough. No need to rent a car for Munich/Salzburg and even Rothenburg-all are easily reached by train. If you go to Rothenburg, you definitely need to spend the night-the Night Watchman's tour is necessary to really get a feel for the city.

For VARIETY of scenery, your notion of dropping 4 nights in Garmisch/O'gau for the Rhine makes good sense. The Rhine and nearby Mosel are unique. Perhaps spend 3 nights on the Rhine, with the spare night ADDED to Salzburg (which will allow for additional Alpine exploration/sightseeing time to replace the Alpine scenery you're removing.)

The Salzach-River-town of Werfen (outside Salzburg) is a fine town for an additional outing:

https://www.werfen.at/en/local-sights#the-sound-of-music-trail

We recently took the "Sound of Music" trail from Werfen up to the hillside vantage point where some of the film scenes were shot. Awesome. Hohenwerfen Castle and the other sights at the page above may interest you as well.

We were just on the Rhine (again) on that same trip as well. It's Germany's most compelling scenery, IMHO. You'd spend much of a day getting there but you'd still have some afternoon time and 2 full days after your first night. It's worth the trip. (I think you've already received some travel advice for the Rhine.)

Nuremberg is very nice. I like it better than Munich and Berlin. But those two (and B'gaden) have plenty of WW II stuff already and you'll already have had enough city time, so I would not recommend N'berg additionally. Rothenburg? I wouldn't do that either. Too many tourists, and your goal is good scenery.

I don't get where the "fly to London" part fits in with your stated priorities. Fly to where you want to go, presumably somewhere in Germany. If your flight goes through London, OK, but I see no reason to set that as your inbound destination (some of us would avoid Heathrow as a connecting airport anyway). If you can find the time, I'd also suggest giving yourself a couple days along the rhine for castle hopping.

Hi Guys- Thank you for your feedback. This is part of a 21 day trip with 4 nights in London at the start. Daughter wants to see a bit and get a taste for it. When Air Berlin pulled their long haul flights we were left with much fewer options in and out of Germany. If I can get a flight from Germany back home with short stop over in the states it is a option but right now flight schedules aren’t out for May 2019 for most carriers from Orlando. We have BA or Virgin with Iceland Air and Air Norwegian as options. In he past even after a ton of research we have found ourselves with a evening flight out of wherever we are with a over night near Gatwick and a flight out in the AM.

Thank you Russ and Cala. This is what I was hoping for. Honest feedback and preferences.

Russ- Would you be in favor of skipping Munich for Numberg? Munich really wasn’t a must do. Seemed like a good jumping off point for a lot of things. Our daughter mentioned a concentration camp so we thought of Dachau but we could always keep 5 nights in Berlin and do one there. I had heard Rothenburg was full of tourist. We live in Orlando so skipping that wouldn’t be a crime. My daughter though the crime and punishment museum looked neat and the timber buildings interested me but it isn’t a must do. Just seemed like so many enjoy their visit. I like the idea of possibly just spending time on Salzburg for our alpine pursuits. Any thoughts on in town vs a stay in Berchtesgaden.

Cala - Your thought of dropping nights to add the Rhine isn’t a bad idea. To be honest we want to relax a bit too. We have learned to take some things slow when traveling at a family of three. Really soak it up. Not a fan of one night stays so this was helpful.

Legistcally how would you both plan this out?We have enjoyed freedom of cars on past vacation but can also see the benefits just using trains. Thank you so much. I have learned that it doesn’t matter how much I read feedback from those that have done it is very helpful. We will be with a 19 year old and want to make it fun for her too.

We just returned from 6 nights in Germany as part of a longer trip, and we loved the Rhine valley, would recommend it as it was a really neat area. We stayed in Bacharach for 3 days and got to do so much: Rhine cruise, hike up to 2 castles (Rheinfels and Marksburg), take the chairlift in Boppard to amazing views, great wine, etc. We also had one night in Rothenburg, and honestly, it was one of our most favorite days: we walked the medieval wall, hung out in the castle garden, ate schneeballen and did the Nightwatchman tour (so much fun). My kids are 12 and 14 and they got a huge kick out of it, too. It is completely adorable and the people were the nicest we encountered. Nice hotels are cheap there as well. Yes, there are tourists, but I imagine there will be tourists in a lot of places you go. We did not find Rothenburg to have more than any other German cities/towns.
Just an FYI/something to think about (though you may not have the same situation): we did some WW2 sightseeing in the beginning of our trip in Prague, and all of us, including my kids (who are history buffs) found that we needed a break from the heaviness of it, and Rothenburg and the Rhine was perfect. We also enjoyed Nuremburg quite a bit but we did not do any WW2 stuff there, as no one was feeling like they wanted to see any more. The Albrecht Durer house, Castle (with tower and deep well), and the German National Museum were great. I had considered going to the Rally grounds, but no one wanted to see that so we skipped it and made a relaxing day of wandering Nuremburg, which is lovely when you get away from the main shopping area, with all the bridges over the river.

"Would you be in favor of skipping Munich for Numberg? (Nuremberg)... Our daughter mentioned a concentration camp so we thought of Dachau but we could always keep 5 nights in Berlin and do one there."

5 nights in Berlin, w/ day trip to Sachsenhausen concentration camp, is probably OK. Munich is a rail hub and you may have to pass through there for Salzburg, but there's no law that tourists must overnight or sightsee in Munich; yes, I'd favor Nuremberg over Munich, especially since you have no firm plans for your stay there. The WW II options ... the art (and other) museums... the Imperial Castle complex... the attractive old town zone (yes, with half-timbered buildings)... the churches... the beer pubs... the Handwerkerhof... It sounds like it would meet your needs - actually I think there's something for just about everyone there. And Nuremberg is actually a better "jumping off point" for you than Munich anyway if Rothenburg will remain a target - it's a doable day trip from Nuremberg by regional train and costs only €20 for the family (that is, if your daughter is <18) on a "Tagesticket Plus" day pass (buy at station on day of travel.) (I find the Nightwatchman shtick and the torture museum stuff more than a little hokey and R'burg too touristy and theme-park-like overall - and you can see half-timbered buildings in all the Rhine towns too - and there are better day trips from Nuremberg IMO - but admittedly, my R-burg take on this forum is in the minority.)

Possible trip organization for major train trips with Rhine and Nuremberg on the itinerary: it might be convenient to fly into FRA and out of MUC...

FRA airport - Rhine: 1 - 1.5 hours
Rhine - Nuremberg: about 4 hours
Nuremberg - Berlin: 3.5 hours
Berlin - Munich: 4.5 hours (lunch + sightsee in the afternoon if you have any specific goals there) + Munich - Salzburg in the evening (1.75 hrs.)
Salzburg - Munich in the evening of your final day: 1.75 hrs.
Munich - MUC airport: 40 minutes

I'm sure there are other options for ordering as well.

Of course you then also have day trips to Sachsenhausen, Berchtesgaden, Rhine towns, maybe Werfen and Rothenburg.

A German rail pass of some sort for the big trips might be in order for convenience, for possible changes in your plans, and possibly for savings. The short trips can be done by local day pass or possibly by rail pass (if the additional cost per travel day is competitive.)

Ferrin- Thank you for your feedback. Out of curriousty what route did you take from Prague to the Rhine? Did you go through Berlin? I was looking at train schedules. Did you do Munich at all?

Russ- Would you suggest a car for the Salzburg portion for day trips etc? I had thought if basing ourselves in Salzburg but had bounced around staying outside of the city as well. Seems that many have opinions either way. I had thought it would be nice to have a few quiet days and if we drop southern Bavaria from the itinerary perhaps Berchtesgaden or as you have suggested Werfen could fit this bill. We had thought of Neuschwanstein generally because they used it as a model for the Disney castle. We normally avoid stuff like this but with being from Orlando we thought our daughter might enjoy it but I have read some negative feedback about all the crowds. This makes me rethink it and lean more towards lived in castles along the Rhine. Have you been down south and what is your perspective on the alpine scenery compared to the outskirts of Salzburg?
Thank you again for all your perspectives! It is truly so helpful.

I'm a fan of the German railpass-it's so convenient. And I assume you know that there is a Deusche(spelling?) Bahn app that shows you all possible routes, which enables you to choose a route with adjacent platforms-German trains load and unload very quickly.

"We had thought of Neuschwanstein generally because they used it as a model for the Disney castle. We normally avoid stuff like this but with being from Orlando we thought our daughter might enjoy it ..."

Because you said this previously...

"I like the idea of possibly just spending time on Salzburg for our alpine pursuits."

...I assumed that dropping Garmisch/Innsbruck/Füssen/N'stein area was an idea you had already embraced. Hohenwerfen (which unlike N'stein is a REAL medieval castle with roots back 1,000 years and offers much more than just a 30-minute tour - like free-light falconry shows) has not re-appeared in Disney's theme parks... but - should you need to sell the idea to your daughter - it has appeared in film and TV (including the Sound of Music picnic scene and the 60's film "Where Eagles Dare" with Clint Eastwood.)

"...I had thought it would be nice to have a few quiet days and if we drop southern Bavaria from the itinerary..."

(I'm assuming "southern Bavaria" means to you just the Garmisch etc. area... not Berchtesgaden and surroundings which is also Bavaria. BTW Nuremberg and Rothenburg are also Bavaria.) I think you will find the Berchtesgaden corner of Bavaria slightly more relaxed and relaxing than the Garmisch/Füssen-etc. area. B'gaden and the Königssee and the surrounding territory are pretty terrific. I don't think you lose by picking B'gaden over the other area. Because Salzburg is a must, B'gaden makes even more sense.

You had first thought 4 days in Salzburg with a B'gaden day trip, but for a more relaxing time and with 5 days it might be wise to reverse the strategy... Stay in B'gaden (or elsewhere in a smaller place with access to both Salzburg and B'gaden) and do day trips into Salzburg and elsewhere. Our recent trip included an apartment stay in between Salzburg and Werfen in the Salzach River town of Golling. The Cafe Maier (available on booking.com) offers room and apartments a short walk from the railway station - check out the offerings here. We were sort of blown away by the balcony/view from our "penthouse-apartment" and by the apartment itself too. (Rates included breakfast in the cafe downstairs.) We used the train to travel from Golling to Werfen and to Salzburg - very easy and extremely scenic. (The train trip from Golling into Salzburg is actually FREE with a tourist pass you can get from innkeepers in Golling.) But a car may be handy for this area if you wish to explore further (Eisreisenwelt ice cave? Salt mines??) especially if your accommodations are not near a station or bus stop.

As for N'stein, my perspective tends to mirror the tone of this article, which appeared on Germany's government-owned news site, Deutsche Welle.

I would keep Munich and see Neuschwanstein from there. Dachau is very easy from Munich as well and to me (Masters in Holocaust and Genocide Studies) a must see for WWII/Holocaust History. However, you can see Sachsenhausen just outside Berlin and it is good to see for WWII/Holocaust history as well. Sachsenhausen is where Martin Niemoller was imprisoned of the famous quote 'first they came for the trade unionists ...' etc...We were just on the Rhine for the first time overnighting in Bacharach and it was wonderful and we had a marvelous time. We stayed 2 nights 1 day but I think you could do 3 nights 2 days for sure and probably more. We loved Salzburg! Go to the concert at the Mirabelle Palace, fantastic!! That being said even with all day for a trip to Berchtesgaden etc... you could whittle Salzburg down to 3 days. Have fun!!

The famous quotation by Martin Niemöller is posted on the wall in the German Resistance Museum in the original...conspicuously where one cannot miss it.

Having visited both Sachsenhausen and Dachau, my personal opinion would be to visit Sachsenhausen KZ. The exhibits seemed to be better done and because the Soviets used it for many years after the war ended, many of the buildings still exist. If you had time, you could perhaps go to Ravensbruck instead, which was a KZ for women. Their exhibitions are extremely well done.

I wouldn't drop any days in Berlin. The Rhine is easily seen in 1-2 days. Perhaps stay in Eltville on the right side of the Rhine. Lovely promenade and the town is full of beautiful, half-timbered buildings. If you want a medieval town full of quaint half-timbered houses, you could also visit the walled town of Büdingen which is only an hour outside of Frankfurt.

Hi,

Great that she wants to focus on Berlin and WW2 history. There is much to see depending in what area..military, Nazi history. I would recommend not only the usual sites but also the esoteric ones should she be into those, especially the war history...the

Invalidenfriedhof (the WW1 and 2 sections), Berlin-Karlshorst Museum on the Nazi-Soviet war, the British RAF military cemetery, the Resistance Museum, the battlefield memorial at Seelow (take the train to Frankfurt an der Oder, then the S-Bahn to Seelow)

The route Berlin to Munich can also be done by night train via Hannover, ie no direct connection anymore,... unfortunately.

We have found that we like more variety on our trips. If you do the same things over and over it gets monotonous. We love castles but got burnt out surprisingly quick. So if possible we suggest putting the things you most want to see at the top of your list and then add different attractions. Have a great trip!!

Thank you all for your feedback. We had a family meeting last night and have decided to forgo Neuschwanstein this time and spend more time outside of Salzburg. It seems like there are some castles and things right around there and Werfen and a possible day trip to Hallstatt has come up. My husband likes the look of Nuremberg over Munich so I think that was a win. Thank you Russ for all your feedback.

Ms Jo- I do think we will have the 5 nights in Berlin and spend one of those at a concentration camp. With the choices of Sachsenhausen or Ravensbruck do you have a preference? I have looked at both on line and either one will obviously have a huge impact. Original structures would be a more moving experience I suppose but I am sure any of those places are a very somber and educational experience. It looks like they are not that far from each other but I am not sure we could do both.

I have been looking at trains and was curious as to everyone’s thoughts on getting over to the Rhine region. It seems to be really out of the way. We had thought to fly into Berlin and go from there to Nuremberg and than up to the Rhine and from there possibly off to Salzburg. It seems like a truck. Another option would be Berlin to Frankfurt to the Rhine region and than Nuremberg to Salzburg. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks again for all your help. This trip has changed a lot in the past 24 hours but we are all a bit more excited about it now with all the tweaking!

"Berlin to Frankfurt to the Rhine region and than Nuremberg to Salzburg. "

Flying into Berlin and out of Munich, this is the way to go. You don't have to get there via Frankfurt necessarily... the DB site will provide a choice of routes, some via Cologne, others via Frankfurt, with journeys of different lengths and with 1-3 changes of train. Travel time varies between 5.5 and 7.5 hours for a trip to St. Goar (a good base town and right in the middle of the most scenic part of the Rhine.) Just click on "details" once the options appear and pick the journey that suits you. The saver-fare (Sparpreis) tickets lock in your travel times and trains - you will want to pre-purchase these ASAP to lock in a specific fare. A rail pass would allow you to use any of the trains you like whenever you like, and you don't have to pre-purchase anything - even the rail pass, which can be bought in Germany if you wish. That said I think most people buy the pass before leaving - I normally buy passes from DB, and normally a few days before leaving if they're printable at home, maybe 3 weeks in advance if they must be shipped from Germany (depends on the type of pass you buy.)

Train trips that are 3+ hours... I don't like long train trips cutting into my sightseeing day - so I often leave one city for another in the late afternoon or early evening. I'll have breakfast and check out by 9 or so, leave my bag at the front desk or in a station locker, then do several hours of sightseeing or whatever; then I'll fetch my bag and catch whatever train gets me to my next destination by around 21:00 or so (a 5-hour trip would mean leaving by 16:00 for example.) I'll normally snag some food at the station (sandwich from a grocery, sometimes hot take-out) and a beer or whatever and enjoy a picnic dinner en route. Not on my lap... On long-distance German trains you'll find either a fold-down table like the airlines offer or a larger stationary table for seats that face each other.