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Oh my gosh! Please help us with Black Forest itinerary!

We are so excited t o be taking the May 21, 2019 RS Best of Germany Tour that starts in Hamburg and ends in Berlin, but we also want to have the quintessential experience of the Black Forest and do a full day Rhine River cruise to see the castles. To get the best airfare on the discount airlines we had to fly in and out of Berlin. We have 9 days before the tour starts. We don’t want to rent a car; we want the train experience, although it seems a bit intimidating. (I also think that the Black Forest Railway might have areas closed for repairs!) We are in our mid-sixties so it might be good to base ourselves in a few spots and not worry about our luggage everyday. I am getting overwhelmed trying to plan this and have spent hours and hours reading guide books and reading the RS Forum. I've looked on the internet at the cities and the train sites-the maps are so small I can’t read them and much of the information is in German, rightly so! There are so many choices, my head is spinning! I need the advice of people who know the area or have been there. Every time I think I have an itinerary we like, we find something new to see! I was careful to be sure that all my hotel reservations can be easily changed. So far, our rough plan is to spend only our first night in Berlin (because of jet lag) since we will be spending several days there after the tour.

Day 2 Fly from Berlin to Stuttgart, tour a bit, take the train to Ludwigsburg to spend night.

Day 3 Tour sites of Ludwigsburg and spend the night the same hotel.

Day 4 Take the train to Gengenbach for a 3 night stay and use the Konus Card. Take train to Freiburg and Schluchsee to take a walk              along the lake or a boat tour (Skip Baden-Baden and Titisee.)

Day 5 Take the Black Forest Train from Gengenbach to Donaueschingen to see the park and the headwaters of Danube, and then to              Triburg to hike the falls. Return to Gengebach to spend 2nd night.

Day 6 Take train form Gengenbach to Gutach for the outdoor museum. Spend final (3rd) night in Gengenbach.

Day 7 Take train to Trier. (I was considering making a base for 2 days out of Bacharach, but the RS tour goes there, so I made                   reservations for 2 nights in Trier.) Take train to Freiburg &/or Staufen. Return to Treir to spend 1st night.
      

Day 8 Take bus to Wurzburgh & Cochem & perhaps Beilstein. Return to spend 2nd night in Trier....
OR take train to Bingen and to Rhine River day cruise up to Boppard getting off once at Braubach to tour Marksburg Castle
          (a 25 min walk up to castle). Spend night where? In Boppard rather then Trier.

Day 9 Take train to Dusseldorf or Cologne or Frankfurt. Fly to Hamburg. Or just stay on the train (2nd class) to get to Hamburg?                 We will be spending this night at RS hotel in Hamburg.

Day 10 Meet RS Tour Group5:00 for the first day of the Best of Germany Tour. We will be extra thankful that someone else has taken care of all the details!
As you can see, I really get lost on day 8 and 9. I am truly grateful for any advice as this will be the only time we get to Germany. Thank you so much.

Posted by
5697 posts

Using the Konus card make sure you do NOT board an ICE train to/from Freiburg -- conductor will ask for fare payment (€€) on board, Konus is only good on regional/local trains. Gengenbach was lovely, low-key.

Posted by
32736 posts

Day 4 you have Freiburg im Breisgau.

Day 7 you have Freiburg im Breisgau and Staufen im Breisgau as a trip from Trier, returning to Trier.

I don't think you meant that. What did you mean?

I like Trier and have been there many times, often using it as an overnight stop between England where I drive my car from towards Switzerland or southern Germany. These days I prefer to stop in Luxembourg or Neunkirchen.

What do you expect to do in two days in Trier?

All day on the Rhine is considerably longer than many people would dedicate to the main castle area. The most scenic bit takes an hour or two all together. There are fairly plain and often industrial areas to the north and south of the best bit.

5:30 to go by train from Berlin Hbf to Stuttgart for very reasonable prices. By the time you have gone back to the Berlin airport, had 90-120 minutes of security theatre, flown, reclaimed your luggage, and gone into Stuttgart you will have spend about the same amount of time and the train will be much more relaxing, much more scenic, and will deliver you to the centre of town.

Sarah can take you on a tour of Stuttgart.

Posted by
6632 posts

Day 7: The train stuff on this day is borderline pathological.

Let's back it up... I think Day 4 is enough to visit Freiburg and Schluchsee (the latter shouldn't take long) so I would not plan on revisiting Freiburg on Day 7 (and I don't think Staufen merits a second train trip in that direction.) And I would not plan on waking up in Gengenbach on Day 7 either. I would instead spend Days 4 & 5 - and most of Day 6 - in the Black Forest. And then in the late afternoon of Day 6 - after the open-air museum - I would catch a train north to the Mosel River area (leave bags at hotel front desk on morning of Day 6 for later retrieval.)

Where to stay on Night 6? It seems that in the next 2 days you wish to visit Trier, Marksburg, Beilstein, Cochem (and Würzburg??? Must be an error!) So you should book nights 6-8 not in Trier but in Cochem, which will provide better access to all these places. Check out the Mosel Railway map.

Beilstein is a short boat or bus trip from Cochem. From Cochem, Trier is accessible by direct train. Marksburg Castle in Braubach is only 10 minutes south of Koblenz by train. I hope you can see how much more central Cochem would be for you.

Your tour already includes a cruise on the Rhine River. I'd focus instead on those places named just above.

On Day 9 proceed by train (or train + air from CGN or FRA) to Hamburg. I'd just go by train I think. Suggestion: You could fit in Marksburg on this day, perhaps, before the journey to Hamburg. Train to Koblenz and stow bags in locker there prior to catching your train to Braubach. (You must return to Koblenz after the castle tour anyway on the way north.)

And I think I'd use the train to get to Stuttgart on Day 2 as well. Or I might skip Stuttgart and just land in Ludwigsburg that day. About 12 minutes by train from Ludwigsburg is the charming old wine town of Besigheim. You might like it:

https://www.stuttgart-tourist.de/en/a-besigheim

Posted by
485 posts

I don't have much to add except to say that we stayed in Gengenbach for 4 nights or so at Gasthof Hirsch and had a wonderful time. We used the Konus card to go somewhere each day (I recommend Strassbourg, France if you have time). Also had a car so one day we drove to the Vogtsbauernhof outdoor museum of hundreds-year-old farmhouses (maybe this is what you called the open-air museum?), and another day stumbled by accident on the quaint town of Schilltach. Lovely memories.

Posted by
2399 posts

Both the Voghtsbauernhof and Schiltach are easily visited by train

Posted by
13931 posts

I'm probably the only one who thought the Rhine River cruise was a bit underwhelming. I did it on a RS 21 Best of Europe going from St Goar to Bacharach and that couple of hours was plenty which surprised me completely. A full day would have been too much for me.

I also really enjoyed Trier. I spent a couple of extra nights there before the RS GAS and didn't get to everything on my list of things to do. I loved seeing the Roman ruins there. The archeological museum there, The Rheinisches Landesmuseum, is excellent. They were having a special exhibit on Nero when I visited and it was very well done, so if there is something special, consider paying the extra tariff to see it.

https://www.trier-info.de/english/sights-in-trier

Posted by
44 posts

Thank you all for your input. Lauren, I appreciate the heads up on being careful to use the Konus Card correctly. Nigel, yes after all my research and being overwhelmed, I messed up on Day 4 & Day 7! No I do not intend to go back to those cities again! Back to the drawing board. Thank you for the suggestion to take the train rather than flying to Stuttgart. Great idea for all the reasons you cited. A second class ticket is fine with me and I understand that DB has Spring fare sales in February. Russ, thank you for pointing out that Cochem is more central and it's good to know we can stow our bags at Koblenz. We agree with your suggestion to stay on the train and keep going to Hamburg. We do enjoy looking the scenery as we travel by bus or train. Alexandra (I didn't mean to be pathological, perhaps illogical...) and Stephen than you for verifying that Gengenbach is a good town to serve as a base. I also appreciate the verification that can get to Voghtsbauernof and Schilltach by train. Pam those are some of the sites we are interested in seeing in Trier. We will do more research about the Rhine River tours and about the best way to tour the Marksburg Castle. So it's back to the drawing board and again, thank you all for your ideas. I won't be able to post until I return from a week of family obligations in Phoenix, but I'm eager to consider any other ideas.

Posted by
8942 posts

The Rhine cruise from Bingen or Rüdesheim going to St. Goar takes less than 2 hours. That Rick only recommends that tiny trip from Bacharach to St. Goar kind of makes me sad. You miss 2/3rds of the castles and all those lovely vineyards and cool looking towns along the Rhein. Why does he do that????

Taking the ship from St. Goar in the direction of Bacharach, means it takes twice as long due to the current which flows north.

Posted by
32736 posts

I think I forgot to also agree that Gengenbach is a nice place to base. We like it a lot. Walk back into the courtyard and find the water being carried over to the bakery. The parks are worth a walk, if you walk a little further the Jakobusweg (the pilgrimage path of St James which leads to Spain) passes Gengenbach, and up the hill there is an ancient Jakobs pilgrimage chapel.

It is enjoyable at the tiny museum (not always open) which shows the loggers taking the logs down the river many miles and how they returned. The whole area around depended on getting the trees to market in the days before trucking.

The walls and gates are also beautiful as are the channels of water which flow down the gutters.

Lots to do in the area - very nice IMHO.

Posted by
2399 posts

In Gengenbach if you are there on Wed., Sat. or Sun., be sure to visit the Narren Museum which displays the costumes of the carnival season.

Schiltach has two train stops. Get off at the MITTE station.

Posted by
44 posts

Sharon here.... I am back to the planning board. Again I want to say thank you to all of you for your suggestions. I incorporated some of them into my plans and I have days 1-6 planned, with several days in the Black Forest as Russ suggested. I got a great price on the train tickets for Berlin to Ludwigsburg. My husband has always wanted to stay at a castle and I am so excited to have a reservation to spend the night of day 7 at Castle Hotel Auf Schoenburg as a special treat for him. That changes my previous plans; Trier is no longer in the plans. I have train tickets on Day 7 from Gengenbach to Rudesheim. The timing of the connections work out to be able to take the KD cruise from there to Oberwesel where we stay at the castle. Now I need some advice about what to do and where to stay on day 8 as it seems to have opened up. We would like to tour Marksburg castle in Braubach and I see that it is open on Sunday. (We don't need to make the English tour at 1:00 or 4:00 but can do a German one since RS has a great narrative for it in his book.) Would it be more scenic/interesting to go to Braubach by regional train or take the DK boat again? We need to spend that night and then take the train to Hamburg the next day. I could fit it in on the way to Hamburg as Russ suggests. My question, where to spend the night? I am considering Braubach or Boppard to see more sights. Any other suggestions?Thank you.

Posted by
6632 posts

"We need to spend that night (on Day 8) and then take the train to Hamburg the next day.... I am considering Braubach or Boppard to see more sights."

OK. Seeing sights on Day 8 is going to be a little simpler for you if you use the trains, I think. But back to Day 7 for a moment. Once you have cruised into Oberwesel, you have seen most of the most essential scenery. Still - if you want to see the rest - it would take you only 20 more minutes to cruise to St. Goar. Whatever boat you are on will arrive at :55 after the hour in St.Goar. You might want to do that and spend a short while in St. Goar just enjoying the view over some refreshments or some food. When you step off the dock there you're only a few steps from the Bistro Cafe St. Goar, which has a terrific view of the river with some cozy patio furniture positioned under some umbrellas out front on the sidewalk, as well as an indoor venue.

https://t-ec.bstatic.com/images/hotel/max1024x768/900/9002574.jpg

From there you could just enjoy the view until your train to St. Goar (at :56 after the hour) leaves for Oberwesel (a 5-minute train ride, €3.) The train station is a short walk from the riverfront.

OK, so either you do that or not. On the 8th, I would probably use the train to Boppard. I'd deposit the bags at the front desk of my pre-booked hotel and enjoy the town for a while.

https://www.boppard-tourismus.de/21-1-Sehenswuerdigkeiten.html

The chairlift opens at 10 and takes you up about 750 feet in elevation to a cool lookout area with a few hiking options.

https://www.boppard-tourismus.de/index.php?article_id=45&clang=1

Gedeonseck terrace/cafe is a short walk from the top of the lift: http://ext.pimg.tw/samlucky5711/1379089584-1923285561.jpg?v=1379089585

Leaving Boppard at around 2 pm by train will put you in Braubach at around 3 pm. You'll have time for a walk up the hill and to get your tickets for the 4 pm English tour. (The castle itself hands out English pamphlets. But I don't quite grasp why a German tour with just a pamphlet would be acceptable if the English tour is right there for you.)

You'll be back down in Braubach by 5:30 or so. Have a meal in one of the market square restaurants? Then return to Boppard as you came when you're ready.

TRAIN TICKET: Buy a VRM Mini-group ticket (about €23) for the whole VRM network at a ticket machine. That gets the two of you on the regional trains to Boppard and then to Braubach and back to Boppard all on the same day.

Posted by
44 posts

Russ: Thanks! We like your ideas. I booked a nice looking pension for $84.00 a night in Boppard near the Hbf, the Mitterlhein Pension, which includes breakfast, of course. I'll let people know how it is when we return. I put the DB app on my iPhone to purchase my train tickets, but also printed paper copies just for peace of mind. The train from Boppard to Hamburg has 11 intermediate stops on the IC train whether I go through Frankfurt or take the other route. Do you know if there is a train ( an ICE train?) with less stops that I could transfer to after starting on the RE train in Boppard? Perhaps 11 stops is good and I don't know that? This is the last transportation reservation I need to make and then I have all my lodging booked and the major train routes taken care of leaving me the freedom for 3 days in the Black Forest to use the Konus Karte and do some exploring. Thank you all for all your suggestions, and thank you Russ for filling in some of the details for me!

Posted by
2 posts

We are traveling to Belgium and Germany this summer and I'm looking to see if it's realistic to travel to the black forest for 3.5 days. We will not have a car and we have 2 young kids, 1 and 3 years old. It seems like it's very difficult to get there and get around without a car unless we are staying close to a train station. Where are you staying in Gengenbach?

Posted by
6632 posts

"It seems like it's very difficult to get there and get around without a car unless we are staying close to a train station."

The Black Forest is no different from a major city in this regard. It is always easier to get around by train if you stay close to a train station.

Maybe you should stay in Gutach (Schwarzwaldbahn) where the Vogtsbauernhof Black Forest Open Air Museum (Freilichtmuseum) is. It's a great place to visit. Use a stroller for small kids - no traffic on the paths around the area except other strollers and maybe a farm animal or two.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g1825958-d190955-Reviews-Schwarzwalder_Freilichtmuseum_Vogtsbauernhof-Gutach_im_Schwarzwald_Baden_Wurttemb.html

Gutach Valley: http://www.coastal.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/germany.jpg

The railway that comes from Offenburg and Gengenbach - the famous Black Forest Railway - serves Gutach too - there's a new train station very close to the Freilichtmuseum. You can see how close in this photo taken from the train station platform:

https://www.bo.de/sites/default/files/styles/688x384/public/field/image/file6ib92zwteuxuer8ad3l.jpg?itok=jS10ik9Ahttps://www.bo.de/lokales/ortenau/bahnhalt-gutach-geht-in-betrieb

And the Rotbauernhof Inn is right there too:

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g1825958-d6838643-r441316869-Rotbauernhof-GutachimSchwarzwaldBadenWurttemberg.html

If you stay in either Gutach or in Gengenbach you can get a KONUS card for free train travel around the area during your stay:

https://www.blackforest-tourism.com/info/KONUS

Posted by
44 posts

Katie, We are staying the Hotel Restaurant Sonne (1100 feet from the train station) that is both a hotel and restaurant as the name implies. Ironically, both days we are staying are the days during the week the restaurant is closed, but breakfast will still be served. I suggest you put "Gengenbach hotel" in the search bar at the top of the RS Forums page and see what information people share. Then I suggest you look at Booking.com.If you read the information, it will tell you how close a hotel is to the railroad station; and if you cross reference with Trip Advisor you will find additional information. I hope this helps.