Nurenberg

Your itinerary has you arriving in Nuremberg on April 10 and also on April 12?? I dug through your other posts. Are your plans the same as you had in mind about 5 days ago?

Sunday 10-Apr London Nuernberg 8 hours am train

Monday 11-Apr Nuernberg

Tuesday 12-Apr Nuernberg Munich 1 hour pm train

Wednesday 13-Apr Munich

Thursday 14-Apr Munich Day trip-Dachu

Friday 15-Apr Munich Day trip-Salzberg

Saturday 16-Apr Munich Fussen 2 hours pm train

Sunday 17-Apr Fussen

Monday 18-Apr Fussen Chur 4 hours am train

If your reason for Nuremberg was the Nazi sights and you now have no reason for visiting, I think the reasonable thing to do is to shorten your 8-hour April 10 train ride to FOUR hours and overnight in COLOGNE, Germany.

NS-Documentation Center of Cologne (open Sundays until 18:00 - so leave London in the morning on April 10.) The doc center, housed in the old Gestapo headquarters, is a 10-minute walk from the train station and offers audio guides in English. That's probably all you'll have time for that day.

The Doc center gets ignored in Rick Steves' article on Cologne for reasons that Rick should be forced to explain. But he does cover the Cologne Cathedral and the Chocolate Museum. There are other things to see and do there as well. I think that even on a Monday, most people will find something of interest there, and you could probably plan on several hours there Monday April 11.

That afternoon at 14:44, 15:36, and 15:55 there are DIRECT train to Munich from Cologne for the 4.5-hr. train ride. There's also a direct train at 16:29 that takes less than 4 hours. To avoid missing a connection I would prefer one of these direct trains. Some of them leave from Köln Hbf (the main station) and others from the Köln Messe Deutz station (just across the Hohenzollern Bridge.)

ALTERNATIVELY... If in fact you find nothing that interests you for your Monday, think about this... Your direct rail trip to Munich totally bypasses the very best place in Germany to walk through an authentic medieval castle. Your current itinerary has nothing like this (Neuschwanstein in Füssen = late 19th century palace with fake castle exterior.) Both Marksburg Castle (roughly 800 years of history on the Rhine south of Cologne) and Burg Eltz Castle (near Moselkern on the Mosel River) are possibilities. Without a doubt, Marksburg Castle would be MUCH easier to visit - and unlike Eltz, it makes an effort to preserve the medieval atmosphere as well:

https://www.marksburg.de/en/circuit/

Treasure-hunt at Marksburg (in German but subtitles in English)

To get there, get an early start on a morning train to Koblenz (1 hr. from Cologne) and stow bags in a station locker - then catch a connecting train for the 10-minute ride to Braubach. Return to Koblenz as you came. From Koblenz to Munich you would then have roughly 5.5 hours to reach Munich (departures from Koblenz around 14:00 / 14:30 put you in Munich at around 19:30 - 20:00.) From Koblenz, the train takes you on Germany's most scenic train route, the Middle Rhine Valley between Koblenz and Bingen. Here's the Man in Seat 61's page on this route:

https://www.seat61.com/places-of-interest/rails-down-the-rhine.htm

The Documentation Center is currently being renovated; there is a smaller replacement exhibition in another location of Hitler's "Congress Hall". The grounds are freely accessible. You should be aware, however, that contrary to popular belief among American tourists, Hitler never held a speech there. The site was unfinished until the begin of the war, with the exception of the tribune of the Reichswehr, whom Hitler was not on good terms with. The party assemblies known from the Riefenstahl film were held in the Luitpoldhain (about 200m north), but there are no traces of the Nazi period left there because the US Army blew everything up after the conquestof Nürnberg (unfortunately, the dynamite was too precious for them to use it in the Congress Hall too).

Nuremberg, however, is much more than the documentation center. It was one of the most important German cities in the Middle Ages and has a lot of medieval buildings to offer, even if many of them had to be restored after the war.

when I heard the Nurenberg doc center and rally grounds were closed I arrived in Munich early and added Salzburg for 2 nights, but your cologne idea sounds interesting. I need to check what is open on Mondy though because it seems many things close on Monday. It is strange that it is not mentioned in Rick Steves Books.....hmmmm

Our stay in Fussan involves seeing the two castles are you saying those are not worth the stop? We are a Disney family so seeing the castle that sleeping Beauty was modeled after is something we really wanted to see......this trip is with my 20-year-old daughter who is studying abroad. My husband and I plan on going back and seeing much more.... but I would really like your honest opinion

when I heard the Nurenberg doc center and rally grounds were closed I arrived in Munich early and added Salzburg for 2 nights... It is strange that it is not mentioned in Rick Steves Books.....hmmmm

The renovation of the Documentation Center did not begin till the fall of 2020, while the latest Rick Steves' Germany Germany guidebook was published in early 2021. There are many months between the time of the final edited copy and publication, and it is not always possible to get all the changes into the book in time. In this case, COVID caused a lot if these changes - not just because of restaurant and hotel closures but also the the lack of travelers caused many tourist areas to focus on renovations.

It is always a good idea to verify any print information from an online source if at all possible. The website at the Documentation Center has all current information. I recommend that you check it out at https://museen.nuernberg.de/dokuzentrum//

I need to check what is open on Mondy though because it seems many things close on Monday.

Well the Cologne Cathedral is not, and it is one of UNESCO's most-visited World Heritage sites in Germany. You might end up spending a couple of hours there if you are into it. But yes, on Monday you might have time for some other things as well before the afternoon train I suggested leaves for Munich. Do check open hours if you intend to spend more of that day in Cologne.

Our stay in Fussan involves seeing the two castles are you saying those are not worth the stop? We are a Disney family so seeing the castle that sleeping Beauty was modeled after is something we really wanted to see... but I would really like your honest opinion.

I suggested Marksburg Castle for Monday not because "Sleeping Beauty's" castle is unworthy of your time, but because Marksburg is a REAL castle that played a real role in European history generally and the development of commerce specifically. Your visit there will shed light on the role that castles played in everyday life back in the Middle Ages. It's the sort of thing you can't possibly experience in North America and something which I think would interest anyone who's interested in European history.

It's also the sort of thing you won't get from a Neuschwanstein experience. N'stein is often called a "castle" but it is something completely different altogether. It was built as a private residential home, only a few years before Walt Disney was born, for one of Bavaria's monarchs, King Ludwig II. But except for the 6 months that Ludwig lived there before his death, this palace has never served any particular historical purpose. It was built with luxury and comfort in mind, with modern plumbing, concrete, central heating, etc. but not with the defensive features that would protect locals from things like flying cannonballs and flaming arrows and marauding French invaders... That does make it a real residential PALACE (which is how Germans refer to it) just like Hohenschwangau and Linderhof (also palaces.) But not a real castle.

My honest opinion is that you should visit what you want to visit. My honest opinion about Neuschwanstein is that it's not all that interesting altogether - and that the rushed guided tours (no exploring of this palace on your own, no siree) are overcrowded and overpriced as well, not to mention the business of reserving tickets... I honestly just don't get the interest in the place unless someone is genuinely fascinated with King Ludwig II for some reason. It does have a stunning appearance when you glance upward from town. But then, I've seen that view before a thousand times on posters and in travel brochures.
Füssen IMHO is an attractive place with lovely places to hike, etc., so I see N'stein more as a "maybe" visit if you're in town for other things already. But if you're a "Disney Family," and if you think it will add to your understanding of Disney films, or American theme parks, or your appreciation of the "castles" inside the Disney parks, or of Germany or Europe - or whatever - I think my opinion is irrelevant.

Thanks so much very helpful. I checked into Marksburg but noticed there is a long trek up hill and they don't have tram or English tours until summer. I emailed them to find out what summer time frame is. We are going in April. I'm also worried about the daylight on train if we go after lunch on Rhine train. All things I'm looking into. On a side note we have been to Hampton Court and Windsor castle and those are very castle ish as well

Marksburg workarounds...

"there is a long trek up hill"

It's 25 minutes, about half as long as the walk up to Burg Eltz or Neuschwanstein. But it is fairly steep, similar to the Neuschwanstein walk.... Access information from the N'stein page in case you need it:

The road from the Ticket Center to Neuschwanstein Castle (distance
around 1.5 km) is asphalted, but it is all uphill and in places quite
steep.

Horse-drawn carriage We recommend that you ride up in the horse-drawn carriage. The drivers will provide any assistance with
boarding you might require, as no ramps are available. Folding
wheelchairs can of course easily be transported in the carriage, but
the drivers unfortunately can’t take electrically-driven wheelchairs.
The carriage ride ends at the turning point below the castle. From
here it is approximately 450 metres to the castle on a tarred road
with a gradient of up to 15 %.

A low-floor bus will take you to the ‘Jugend’ stop above the castle.
From here a tarred footpath around 500 metres long and 2.5-3 metres
wide leads downhill to Neuschwanstein Castle. In places this has a
gradient of 12-19 % as well as a slight camber. The footpath is built
into the hillside so there are no stopping places on either side. On
the valley side the path is secured by a railing a metre high and a
board walk at medium height. You must decide for yourself whether
you are in a position to use this path; the owner is not liable or
responsible for any accidents.

Link for N'stein shuttle/carriage options:
https://www.neuschwanstein.de/englisch/tourist/howtoget.htm#kutsche

Back now to Marksburg: If the walk isn't doable, you would hire a taxi. I would schedule it to meet my train at Braubach station. Here's one: http://www.funktaxi-braubach.de/impressum/index.html
You won't be the first Marksburg visitor who didn't do the walk up from town! There used to be a shuttle that ran regularly but no longer. Why not contact the TI office in Braubach for their advice - they must deal with this all the time. See contact info at the bottom of the page: https://braubach.welterbe-mittelrheintal.de/tourismus

"...they don't have... English tours until summer." That's a shame. They must expect low attendance numbers this year after Covid. English tours used to be at 1 and 4 pm every day. Marksburg is a well-known destination among Asian tourists - who normally learn English and will be disappointed to hear this too. But all is not lost. For as long as I can remember, Marksburg management has had on hand tour flyers in English so that anyone who can't do German can still take the German tour and get something out of it. The last Marksburg tour I was on was in German and included some British visitors had the flyer in hand but were also able to get their questions answered in English by the guide as well. Here's the official Marksburg tour flyer text, written last year. Take it with you if you go. (I will mention here my Neuschwanstein English tour... the guide's spoken English was so heavily accented and delivered so softly that I was only able to catch about half the text. Wish N'stein had offered me a flyer for my ENGLISH tour!)

I'm also worried about the daylight on train if we go after lunch on Rhine train. Sunset on April 12 on the Rhine: 20:14. My idea was to leave Braubach around 14:00 and reach MUNICH before dark. In my head, Marksburg was to be your only activity. But if you want morning time in Cologne AND Marksburg, try this...

• train Cologne to Braubach 11:35 > Koblenz (drop bags) > Braubach 13:05; taxi up + lunch at the castle + tour
• lv. Braubach 15:53 for Koblenz and bags; ar. Munich 21:27.

Again, your information is so helpful....since you have a lot of information could I ask you a few more questions?

How can we confirm the lockers at train station will fit our luggage or if there is space. Do you have additional info on this?

Also if we do the schedule you mention, it seems like you would stay 2 nights in Cologne, do the castle and arrive in Munich ......do you think our remaining schedule will work.....I am on the fence about salzberg...2 hour train trip each way....wondering if too much for one day

Luggage storage: I'm not aware of any "locker-availability" apps or other ways to know about availability. However, I can't remember a time when I couldn't find an available locker in any station.

DB has a site where you can hunt down station information - like whether lockers are on hand. Just enter the station name:
https://www.bahnhof.de/bahnhof-en

Marksburg visit... 2nd thought... Contact the Braubach tourist office (see previous contact info. I provided.) It's near the station, and like many TI offices do, Braubach's office might be holding luggage for tourists who are in town for a few hours. The station has no lockers, but it would be save you a little travel time en route to Munich to just take bags with you to Braubach and retrieve them at the Braubach TI office after the castle tour - no train return to Koblenz would be needed. I asked the Braubach TI office myself several years ago about this possibility and got a thumbs up. But post-Covid, I just don't know.

Lockers come in different sizes but I can't tell you what they are. When DW and I travel, we take very seriously the most important travel advice that Rick Steves has ever issued - his tips on PACKING. Follow these and your bags should fit fine:

https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/packing-light/packing-smart

"Also if we do the schedule you mention, it seems like you would stay 2 nights in Cologne, do the castle and arrive in Munich"

Maybe I misstated something and gave you that impression. But my thought was one night in Cologne, (which puts you in Munich EARLIER than you originally had planned, doesn't it?)

April 10: Train to Cologne + NS Doc Museum + one night in Cologne
April 11: Maybe the cathedral in the morning... then the 11:35 train > Koblenz > Braubach (Marksburg tour) > Koblenz for bags > Munich for your first night (arrive late evening.)

However, if you would PREFER 2 nights in the Rhine area, that sounds smart to me. You could then leave for Munich on April 12 in the morning if you like. I would probably organize it like this...

April 10: Train to Cologne + NS Doc Museum + one night in Cologne (SAME AS BEFORE)
April 11: Morning + early afternoon in Cologne for cathedral and more... Train to Braubach (change trains in Koblenz but no locker rental needed!!) + drop bags at a Braubach inn (no storing bags at the TI!!) + taxi up for castle tour.
April 12: Breakfast + Train from Braubach (9:06 or 10:06) > Munich (15:09 or 16:07)

To make this work you'd probably need to leave Cologne on April 11 no later than 14:30 or so to arrive in Braubach at 16:05. (I see a regional train leaving at 14:32 for Koblenz that would work.) That leaves you 55 minutes to drop bags and taxi up for a tour, as the last tour starts at 17:00 (I'm fairly sure - but do confirm this for your date with the castle mgmt.) Then maybe you walk down? into town, have a nice meal, and catch the sunset on the waterfront after that before turning in. There's no need to return on the 1-hour+ train ride to Cologne - just take off in the morning for Munich.

One option for your night in Braubach's pretty old town center: The Zum Goldenen Schlüssel (Golden Key) has...

...Traditional German cuisine:
Dining room
Streetside dining
Menu

...3 doubles and an apartment next door to the restaurant. Here's the Contact page for room reservations.

Posted rates:
Double w/ breakfast = €75
Apartment w/o breakfast = €60

I am on the fence about salzberg...2 hour train trip each
way....wondering if too much for one day

I understood you added Salzburg as a replacement for time in Nuremberg - meaning it was an afterthought. I think of Salzburg as a place to stay a night or more to have enough time for the whole package. So maybe it's a place you visit some other time. There of course are other nice day trip options that might require LESS "boots on the ground" time than Salzburg. One of those is right in Munich itself - Nymphenburg Palace is great for wandering around in a couple of hours - lots to see and an easy trip by local public transport from Munich's core. It's where King Ludwig II (the monarch who had Neuschwanstein, Linderhof, and Herrenchiemsee Palaces built) spent his childhood:

https://www.theworldisabook.com/16991/munich-with-kids-nymphenburg-palace/

https://schloss-nymphenburg.de/englisch/tourist/index.htm

Herrenchiemsee is in Prien (one hour from Munich by direct train.) You ferry across to Herreninsel (island in Lake Chiemsee) after arriving in Prien:

https://herrenchiemsee.de/englisch/n_palace/index.htm

Good news summer season at Marksburg starts April 2nd so English Tour at 1:00pm but since we are thinking of staying night in Brabach might just do German tour with flyer........I booked us a Reine Hotel (a little pricey) but looks nice and includes breakfast....(you have any thoughts)

Here is my revised schedule.....I'm questioning day trip to salzberg? Maybe play it by year......what do you think?

Sunday 10-Apr London Cologne
Monday 11-Apr Cologne Bacharach
Tuesday 12-Apr Bacharach Munich
Wednesday 13-Apr Munich (dachu)
Thursday 14-Apr Munich (Walking tour and city
Friday 15-Apr Munich (Salzberg) ???????
Saturday 16-Apr Munich Fussen
Sunday 17-Apr Fussen (2 castles)
Monday 18-Apr Fussen Chur
Tuesday 19-Apr Chur Tirano-Milan Bermina Express
Wednesday 20-Apr Milan to Venice
Thursday 21-Apr Venice
Friday 22-Apr venice

Reine? You mean the Rheinhotel Bacharach?? If so, why have you booked a hotel in BACHARACH, miles away from Braubach (where you're thinking of staying???) and on the opposite river bank, if you're visiting Marksburg?

I think I shared my opinion already on the one-day outing to Salzburg but maybe others will chime in with their 2 cents

wow thanks for catching that.....i was confused by the 2 names...correcting now

I haven't heard how you plan to ticket your train trips. Will you be using a rail pass (and if so, which kind?) Or point-to-point tickets?

I have eurail pass

Thanks. Consecutive, or "flexi"?

we have 5 days in a month....using for eurostar and bernina express.......haven't figured out other 3 days yet

I haven't read the whole thread recently - but how did you expect to do your new day "Monday 18-Apr Fussen Chur"?

That's a really convoluted journey by train.

I have to get there to take bermina express in am.....so it is just a long train ride.....sleeping...probably

Sorry you dismissed Nürnberg. It's a beautiful city. A café or a Bier (a Spezi?) in the Tiergärtnerplatz by the Dürer-Hase Skulptur in Spring with the mid-morning warm sunshine is something else. You can do other adventures in Füssen like a walk around the Schwansee or a hike up to the Kalvarienberg.

So London > Cologne on flexipass Day 1, right? And probably on the flexipass for the 4 bold-print journeys below...

• Cologne > Braubach (normal DB ticket for 2 adults, 11:35 > 13:05; €48.20/ 2, buy at station.

• Braubach > Munich

• Munich > Dachau > Munich (using local MVV tickets; buy at station)

• Munich > Salzburg > Munich (possibly; Bayern Ticket day pass, €34/ 2 buy at station, use BRB regional trains after 9 am on Friday)

• Munich > Füssen (Bayern Ticket day pass, €34 / 2, buy at station; use regional trains at any hour on Saturday)

• Füssen > Chur

• Chur > Milan

• Milan > Venice

mma1234: Lots of Nuremberg fans here. Let me just join the crowd. It's a good city to visit with lots to choose from. It just depends on your interests.

What you might do... Mull it over for a while... a long while if you wish; you can day trip from Munich to either SALZBURG or NUREMBERG. N'berg is no more difficult and no more expensive a day trip from Munich than Salzburg is. Make that decision as late as Friday April 15, if you like! You don't have to prepurchase tickets in advance. The direct regional train at 9:05 reaches Nuremberg at 10:49, and the same Bayern Ticket for two will get you there and back (good direct train option at 19:08 for the return trip back to Munich (ar. 20:58.)