I would like advice on our plan on part of our first European trip. Two of are traveling by train from Luxembourg to Bingen this fall. In Bingen we plan to take a ferry to St. Goar, then travel via train the same day to Mainz. We will stay in Mainz 1.5 days and then travel to the Frankfurt airport and fly to Prague. Does this make logistical sense. We already have a 3:00 PM flight booked to Prague from Frankfort. We have flexibility as to which town to take the train to from Luxembourg. We want to take a ferry ride for part of the day. Thoughts?
Posted by
Sydney, Australia
407 posts
I do have a few thoughts for you. You say you will be travelling by train, and obviously I don't know the time of day, but many of the routes I could find on Google Maps send you by Flixbus from Luxembourg to Wiesbaden, and then backtracking by rail to Bingen. The other route - and this is one I have done - is by slow train from Luxembourg to Koblenz, and then down either side of the Rhine. I have travelled down the right bank myself as I was heading for Wiesbaden. So a few points: Luxembourg is not well connected to anywhere, just a fact. Even the approach from Brussels takes 3 hours by train. Secondly, if you take the train to Koblenz, it might make better sense to go to Sankt Goar first by train, and then a ferry to Bingen, and then by train to Mainz and on to Frankfurt airport when the time comes. That would avoid the backtracking between Wiesbaden, Mainz and Bingen. However, a train will take between 3-5 hours to do that journey from Luxembourg to Sankt Goar so it will be a long day and if you have to skip somewhere, let it be Bingen.
Good luck, hope you enjoy Luxembourg!
Lavandula
Posted by
562 posts
oh dear, this is getting very messy.
To start with, there is no "ferry" between Bingen and St. Goar. They are excursion ships with limited sailings - and from what I can see no service after mid October. And not to be confused with the grander cruise ships.
Second, from Luxembourg to Bingen by train you would pass through St Goar - and from St. Goar to Mainz you would pass through Bingen! So you would pay twice for travelling between St Goar and Bingen by train - plus the ship fare for the opposite direction, which makes three trips along the same section of valley within a few hours! Are you sure this is what you want? I would catch the 08:33 train from Luxembourg to Koblenz, then go to St Goar arriving about noon and there is usually a ship to Bingen about 13:15 arring around 16:00 - so plenty of time to continue to Mainz
And then we get to the reply. It's inaccurate due to not understanding Google Maps, time zones and Flixbus. The question was posted a few minutes before midnight in Central Europe and the reply is about 45 minutes later - which presumably means that the Google Maps enquiry was made not long after midnight. If you aren't in the time zone of the journey you must set a departure time because if you click "Leave Now" it will look for options in the near future - and there are no trains running on this journey at 01:00. But there is Flixbus - who are a long distance operator. Their departures from Luxembourg at that time of night will have come from somwhere further away, such as Paris or even London! And they could be going much further east, like Berlin or Prague. Yes they will sell you a short ticket in the middle of that long run but the schedule will be aspirational, so you can't plan real local transport connections after it. And a key point to note with Flixbus is that they are not classed as local public transport, which means that they are not free as far as the german border - but trains in Luxembourg are! The problem of "Leave Now" and timezones can even affect people planning to drive , I've read a lot of americans who think the drive from Munich to Slazburg will take about 90 minutes, because they ask in the very quiet hours of the night - in reality it's likely to take at least an hour longer.
Posted by
OP
3 posts
Clearly we are not all familiar with all of these travel options. As I noted this is our first European trip so I very much appreciate learning from all of you.
Bottom line is we will be traveling via train from Luxembourg. Friends suggested we take a “ferry” ride on the Rhine to experience that for a few hours. They mentioned to arrive in Klobens and take a “ferry” from there. We thought to end in Mainz and explore that city for a 1.5 days because it is a short distance to Frankfurt where we will fly out of to get to Prague for the last 5 days of our trip.
Not having been to the region we are open to suggestions that make sense. We simply want to explore a trip on the Rhine. We will be traveling from Luxembourg and we need to get to Frankfurt airport. We plan to be in Luxembourg late on 09/27. We can depart Luxembourg either on 09/30 or 10/01.
We are open to best suggestions for exploring and making the best use of our time in the area. Thanks much!’
Posted by
Paradise
8327 posts
We thought to end in Mainz
That works well. I recommend ONE night there. Then you will have a leisurely breakfast and morning before catching a direct train to FRA airport. I assume you want to be there by 12:30 or 13:00. Direct regional trains leave at 12:02, 12:10, and 12:32 on weekdays (Oct 2 sample date.) Just buy your ticket at the station for this trip.
Before that... here is a doable step-by-step plan of attack.
Sept. 30:
1) Take the train from Luxembourg to Koblenz Hbf. Trains leave L'bourg at :33 after the hour every morning for Koblenz and arrive 2.3 hours later. Have lunch there if you like. You can put your bags in a station locker if you wish. Then...
2) Board a train to St. Goar. Hourly trains leave Koblenz Hbf at around :30 after every hour and take 25minutes. Drop bags at your hotel there. Hotel Rheinfels and the Rheinhotel are next to each other right by the boat dock, and they have nice views of the river. Then...
3) Catch a train to Bingen Rhein Stadt. This station is just a few minutes from the boat docks on foot. Buy a ticket to St Goar and board the next boat. This trip shows you the BEST scenery on the river. Castles, vineyards, cliffs, old-world villages are all visible on the way. There are boats at 14:30 and 16:30 operated by K-D which take you to St. Goar. Once there, you will be just steps from your hotel. St Goar has a few restaurants and some variety as well. Then...
Oct. 1
4) It's just a 10-minute train ride to Bacharach, a beautiful old-world that is worth a visit. Catch a train there after breakfast and walk the town for a couple of hours. Then return to St Goar for your bags and catch a train to Mainz for the remainder of your day. There are numerous hotels within easy walking distance of Mainz Hbf. Mainz is a nice place for sightseeing and for finding a nice meal across a few hours.
I will provide you with ticketing instructions if you need them for the train journeys.
Posted by
Lakewood, Colorado
19741 posts
So, it looks like the K-D day cruise boats will be running from Bingen to St. Goar when you want to take them. You can see their schedule here.
I think it is worth your while to take a two train connection from Luxembourg to Bingen. I once went with the boat from St. Goar to Bacharach by mistake. Going that way, against the current (the Rhein flows from south to north) is more boring than a soccer match. However, in your case, where you are going from Koblenz to Mainz anyway, it might be better to go from Koblenz to St. Goar, then from St. Goar to Bingen, and then from Bingen to Mainz and avoid a lot of extra train travel. Check the schedule to see what works.
But definitely do the Rhein cruise, either direction, it's a fun trip.
FRA is not actually in Frankfurt; it's roughly half way in between Frankfurt and Mainz. In 1988, I stayed in Mainz, by the Hbf, because the hotels there were a lot more reasonably priced than those in Frankfurt. On three trips I've stay the last night in two place on Schottenstr., right across from the Hbf, before flying back to the US.
Posted by
Frankfurt, Germany
9886 posts
The ship ride from St. Goar to Bingen is far from boring. Don't let the last poster influence you. I have ridden the ship in this direction a number of times. If passing dozens of castles and gorgeous scenery while enjoying a glass of wine or two is boring, then I feel sorry for that person.
Sorry to hear you won't be seeing Frankfurt, but Mainz has plenty to see. Do allow enough time for the trains, as they have not been punctual lately.
Posted by
Paradise
8327 posts
...where you are going from Koblenz to Mainz anyway, it might be better to go from Koblenz to St. Goar, then from St. Goar to Bingen, and then from Bingen to Mainz and avoid a lot of extra train travel.
I think Lee's idea is this... 1) TRAIN for Koblenz > St Goar... 2) CRUISE from St Goar > Bingen... 3) TRAIN from Bingen > Mainz
This plan assumes you will reach Mainz on the day you leave Luxembourg for a two-night stay there. This would eliminate backtracking between St Goar and Bingen by train, but it may not save you any travel tme, and there are some things to consider. If you do it this way...
1) ...you will need to port your luggage with you when you exit the train in St Goar and then onto the cruise boat in St Goar and off again when you reach Bingen. This might work alright as long as you traveling light, but cruising without fiddling with bags is of course simpler.
2) ...you will probably need to leave St Goar on the 13:15 boat, which reaches Bingen at 16:00, which results in a cruise time of 2 hours 45 minutes. But as Lee pointed out, cruising upstream is a long slog. Cruising instead from south to north (Bingen > St Goar) will show you the exact same part of the river in just 1 hour, 25 minutes (16:30-17:55 for example) - that's half the time. The cruise distance is only 17 miles, so the Bingen > St Goar cruise is still a very leisurely one. Note that the "backtracking" time that you might hope to save with this strategy is only theoretical since the train time between St Goar and Bingen is just 30 minutes.
3) ...there is a 3-hour gap between boats leaving St Goar, with the NEXT southbound boat to Bingen at 16:10 (arrival in Bingen at 18:50, which means you won't get to Mainz until night has fallen.
4) ...there will be insufficient time to fully enjoy the Rhine Valley scenery or the old-world atmosphere that comes with a walk around Bacharach without an overnight stay there. Mainz has no natural scenery at all. But St Goar lies in the most scenic part of the river...
https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/04/a8/c9/37/romantik-hotel-schloss.jpg
Posted by
Paradise
8327 posts
One more point I forgot. If you take the cruise I suggested from Bingen > St. Goar - the 16:30 - 17:55 - you will be riding the historic "RMS Goethe" Paddlewheel ship. It's quite a handsome old ship: