Multi-generational trip to Germany few questions

What form of transportation are you using between Berlin and Munich?

Do you want suggestions for the 1-weekers? Exactly how many nights will they be spending in Europe?

I am assuming everything will be done by train except the possible trip to Budapest which would be a flight.

I would assume those with one night will have 8 full days in Germany and could do an open leg ticket. In October we went to Rome and we were able to have 8 full days plus two travel days, so people left on a Friday and arrived home on a Sunday.

Oh, and yes, I don't know what the one weekers want... but those are the beer drinker (I'm the odd one who wants to know if they have Coke Zero at the beer hall), and one of them has very little experience travelling and doesn't really know what she likes. Two of them are the maybes.

Are either of these more "authentic"? (I'm not worried about it being a tourist trap, but why see a reconstruction?) I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "authentic", since any building presently standing from over 100 years ago will have probably undergone extensive renovation, either from war damages or the simple ravages of time (in some areas of the former East Germany where historical preservation was not a priority until relatively recently, you can really see the difference). I'm personally not crazy about Rothenburg simply because it's not nearly as unique as advertised and it's been overrun by the tourist industry. But it is very attractive. I wouldn't let some arbitrary definition of "authentic" determine where to visit. But you mentioned Bamberg, and that's certainly a good choice, as is nearby Coburg. Especially for it's huge castle (once again, somewhat rebuilt in the 19h century, but why should that count against it?)

Minor question: In the "famous" beer hall in Munich, do they sell diet coke or coke zero or diet pepsi or something? Non-alcoholic beverages are available, although I don't know if they specifically have diet soda.

Is there a better castle than the one every one says is overrated (N'stein)? It depends on what you're looking for. I personally think Neuschwanstein is fascinating, not because I think it's some kind of medieval relic, but because it's a unique product of its own time and the strange obssessions of it's builder. But if you want something a little more representative of the age of castles and that isn't in a state of ruin... Marksburg on the Rhine is probably the best example in an area where tourists are likely to visit. I think Veste Coburg (in Coburg) is the best castle in Germany, but it was somewhat rebuilt in a Romantic fashion in the 19th century. If you're headed to Berlin from Munich, Saxony has several examples of well-preserved castles, but I forget their names of the top of my head.

@ Liz...Any beer hall, tavern, etc will have non-alcoholic (alcoholfrei) drinks, listed on the menu as "alcoholfreie Getränke" and most definitely a Coke, (ein Cola), Fanta (orange), or Brause (like 7 up). I don't know about Diet Coke or Diet Pepsi.

From Munich to Budapest you have 3 options, 1) train by day, ca 6+ hours, 2) the Munich-BP night train, direct, 3) flying.

On the "authentic" aspect: Bamberg is a town that came through the war unscathed.

For the 1 weekers, I'd suggest flying into Budapest and spending 3 nights. Then take the train into Munich for 4 nights. For the 2 weekers, I'd suggest taking the train up to Berlin.
For the WWII buffs, they can take in Dachau as a 1/2 day trip from Munich.
For the non-beer drinkers, yes they have drinks other than beer available at the Hofbrauhaus and other Munich beer halls.
We went down to Neuschwanstein, and were not terribly impressed.
I don't know exactly what half framed houses are, but I assume you're talking about homes built of timber frame and stucco--they're everywhere in the region.
Other alternatives would be to drop Berlin and take in Salzburg--a great smaller town. Cesky Krumlov is another great authentic Czech town, and shuttle companies can take you there from Salzburg. It's north of Linz, Austria.

Yes, they have diet coke in the beer halls. Have never seen Pepsi for sale here.

For those that are interested you can visit either of the 2 concentration camps near Berlin, Sachsenhausen or the less well known, Ravensbruck, which was a camp for women. Both of them have many of their original buildings because the Soviets used them after the war.

Check out the Half-timbered route to see if any of these towns are along the route you want to travel from Berlin to Munich. Then find a castle that is near by so that you aren't going so much out of your way.
http://www.deutsche-fachwerkstrasse.de/uk/cont.php3

One of my favorite castles is along the Rhine, Burg Rheinfels. The other one is Ronneburg Castle near Gelnhausen & Büdingen, but that is just because I haven't gotten to some of the other magnificent castles.

Bamberg is beautiful but it's a larger town than Rothenburg and in a different style. It's less well known for timber-frame buildings (although there are some) but for baroque stone buildings.

Thanks all for the great replies!!

I think for sure the one-weekers will want to do Berlin; the family of one came from there.

Thanks for the idea of hiring a driver - we did that for a few side trips from Rome and it worked really well. Maybe we should do that for a half-timbered town and a castle? Are these tending to be in Bavaria/near Munich or are they really spread out?

I talked to my mom this morning and I feel like since N'stein may be a whole day, it's something we should only consider if we have enough time. I was worried because I read on another post that the walk up to the castle is challenging and my dad and I are scared of heights, but since millions of people do it every year it's probably not too bad. I am sort of interested because I read about its history with the set designer and Wagnerian operas, and that sounds neat to me.

If the 1 weekers went to Berlin and Munich, how would you suggest we divide the time, say if we had 8 days, and we flew into one city and out of the other? We have one who is really into art, one who is interested in how things work, history, and food and beer, and two whose interests are less clear, but tend to be very go-with-the-flow. My parents and I are interested in art, history (tho my mom says no more WWII stuff - my dad and I still want to go), science, music, etc, but we could stay later or come earlier depending on itinerary.

Thanks again!!

RS recommends Rothenberg ob der tauber but I read on a Munich web site that this is a post WWII reconstruction.

That's one of the many exaggerations to be found on travel forums. In fact, approx. one third of Rothenburg was destroyed, i.e. the youngest an least conspcious NE quarter, and the roof of the tow hall came down. The rest survived intact. You can replicate that easily on a walk upon the NE segment of the wall, where you will find many commemorative tables for American families who have contributed to restore it.
BTW, would you avoid e.g. Salzburg just because of the havy destructions of the inner city in WWII (much more than Rothenburg)? If you are looking for that kind of "authenticity", you will to have to avoid much of Europe at all.

Rothenburg after WWII: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rothenburg_ob_der_Tauber_Bomben_Zerst%C3%B6rung_Weltkrieg_1945.jpg

I've read that destruction was around 40%. That's not a reason to avoid it IMO. Those who want to avoid the tourist horde might wish to find another town, but then you said that sort of place is OK. The other thing about R'burg that bugs me is that the only enterprise in town is tourism - it's all shopkeepers, innkeepers, and their help... lots of English-language menus everywhere, it seems... so if feels like a theme park.

MARKTBREIT might be a good alternative to Rothenburg and would require less time. It and its sister city, Ochsenfurt, are on the Main River just south of Würzburg. Most international tourists bound for Rothenburg unwittingly drive past these places, unaware that they exist. Both have train stations, btw.

video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLUgpoQIFHI

You mentioned "architecture" - well to see some local historical buildings, visit the Bad Windsheim Freilandmuseum with its collection of dozens of cool buildings from the last 5-600 years. It makes for an outstanding experience:

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g198421-d284746-Reviews-Frankish_Open_Land_Museum_Fraenkisches_Freilandmuseum-Bad_Windsheim_Middle_Francon.html

Many/most people don't sleep well on overnight flights, so the first day in Europe is often very hazy and not very productive. This hits people differently, so don't assume your party will be physically capable or desirous of hanging together on Day 1. Arrive with information about sights in hand but don't count on doing much more than wandering around--preferably outdoors so your body knows what time of day it is. Gardens are good, or perhaps a walking tour that doesn't require pre-booking. If someone slept the night away on the plane, he can take on something challenging--like a museum--that (ideally) interests only him.

I highly recommend stopping by the tourist office (airport may have a branch) to get maps for everyone, the latest opening hours of key sights, and information on current special events or activities that might be of interest. This is how I have discovered walking tours, cooking classes, small festivals, etc. Also unexpected site closures. Check online for the location(s) of the local tourist offices, because they do relocate, and guidebook addresses can be outdated. I spent an hour looking for a T.O. in Berlin and finally found out it had moved from a souvenir-store clerk.

In the absence of a special reason to do otherwise (check museum closing days, etc.), I would start in Munich. Its sights seem less spread out than those in Berlin (not hard to accomplish!) and you're more likely to find a centrally located hotel from which individuals can easily wander in different directions, at least in some cases on foot. Jet-lagged first-timers arriving in Berlin might feel less comfortable going off on their own because the city doesn't feel like an intimate place and they might need to use public transportation to get around.

Day allocation is a very personal thing. I think it's safe to say that the people who love Berlin will say it needs more days than the Munich-lovers will say Munich needs (aside from out-of-town side trips, at least). But I'm not sure that is a very useful guideline, especially when you have a max of 8 days. Still, I'll stick my neck out and say maybe 3 days (including the jet-lag day) in Munich and 4 or 5 in Berlin. If some folks have had enough of the relatively modern surroundings in Berlin by the third day there, they can take a day trip to somewhere like Potsdam.

For the extra time some of you will have, I'll mention three especially pretty cities/towns I enjoyed in 2015. All are in the eastern part of Germany but too far from Munich and Berlin to be day trips.

• Quedlinburg: Over 1000 historic buildings, many of them half-timbered. Definitely has been discovered by European tourists, so you would not be the only tourists there. But off the main streets it is not tourist-thronged. There's a castle, a cathedral with a very impressive treasury (Google for the American connection), a modern-art gallery (Feininger), and the tourist office runs a daily English-language walking tour. Alternatively, you can rent an audio guide. The walk takes several hours aside from time at the castle and cathedral.

• Görlitz: So many historic buildings (half-timbered with the occasional art nouveau interloper) that it is used as a film set. Sits on the Polish border east of Dresden. Lovely place not quite as polished-for-tourism as Quedlinburg and certainly with fewer tourists due to the obscure location. Interest may have picked up since I visited in 2015 due to The Grand Budapest Hotel, which was partially filmed there.

• Erfurt: University city with the usual lively atmosphere. Handsome architecture that survived the war, including the merchants' bridge across the narrow river. Historically-important Weimar is nearby and worthwhile, and Buchenwald concentration camp on the outskirts of Weimar has good explanatory material covering not only the war years but the post-war period when the camp was used for enemies of the communist regime.

Maybe we should do that for a half-timbered town and a castle? Are these tending to be in Bavaria/near Munich or are they really spread out?

If you're specifically looking for half-timbered buildings (Fachwerk in German), that style is somewhat uncommon in southern Bavaria. In southern and central Bavaria, the predominate style is brightly painted stucco, with increasing frequency of chalets as you move closer to the Alps. Fachwerk is almost ubiquitous in the central regions of Germany, particularly in the states of Hessen, Thüringen, Saxony, and parts of Rheinland-Pfalz, Nordrhein-Westfalen and Baden-Württemberg and the Harz region of Sachsen-Anhalt. In Bavaria, Fachwerk is mostly limited to the northern part of the state, particularly in the regions of Franconia and the Oberpfalz. Many of the towns on the northern portion of the Romantic Road and in the upper Main river valley have preserved Fachwerk-heavy market centers.

You guys have convinced me that the reconstruction is normal (oddly I saw it on the Munich government tourist site, but it could have been a weird translation thing). I know most places in Germany were damaged In WWII but I had thought that these towns were somehow spared and that's why people visited them?

We are all aquatinted with jet lag, and we cope to varying degrees. I'm probably the worst even though I sleep pretty well on planes. We often will sit in cafes or take a train ride from the city we arrive in. Also, we will be coming from multiple different cities in the US so there will be wait time in the airport.

We will have iPhones with cell and data so no worry about using outdated guidebooks. Now it just costs $10/day for your phone to act like it's in the states and that just makes connecting with a big group and making reservations and navigating so much easier. It made such a huge difference in Rome.

I'd read about Gorlitz. I'll have to look more into that.

Thanks!

Thanks Tom! I don't really understand the geography, I don't have a good special sense, despite spending a lot of time staring at maps!

So, is Rothenberg more like the stucco or the half timbered style? and I guess if I can't tell the difference does it matter (-;

I guess the next step is to ask which of these towns is easiest to get to from Munich or Berlin either by train or as a day trip with a private driver? Since it now looks like we will have a total of 7 we definitely won't be able to rent a car.

So, is Rothenberg more like the stucco or the half timbered style?

Unlike other free imperial cities, Rothenburg startet to fall into decline well before the thirty years war. So, activity of building representative houses had waned long before the era of baroque stucco decorations (there was never a member of the Wessobrunn school or one of the Asam brothers or any other famous south german or even Italian stucco artist at work in Rothenburg). Representative buildings are mainly gothic with facades made of local sandstone. In the back quarters, however, you will find half timbered houses, the best example being the (reconstructed) Gerlach- Schmiede. Like in other Franconian free cities, there were bulding regulations which forced people whose houses were facing larger places and maior streets to build stone houses with representative facades, whereas people in the back quarters were allowed to build half-timbered houses. You may observe that difference in Nuremberg as well, where Albrecht Duerers house, situated in a remote quarter, is a typical half-timbered craftsman house, while patrician houses are made of red sandstone.

I know most places in Germany were damaged In WWII but I had thought that these towns were somehow spared and that's why people visited them?

Most large cities were heavily damaged, but many of the smaller cities and towns escaped completely unharmed. Rothenburg is probably so well-established as a tourist destination because it's been advertised as such for decades. And when travelers really started to visit West Germany again in the 1950s, Rothenburg offered a convenient half-way point between the two most popular regions of the country, the Mittelrhein and southern Bavaria.

So, is Rothenberg more like the stucco or the half timbered style? I don't think I could improve on the response given above. I'm not sure if "stucco" is actually the correct word, but I don't know what the actual style is called. Here's an example, from Landshut, typical of southern Bavaria. Contrast that with Miltenberg in NW Bavaria.