Looking for input on our Sept trip - 15 days

Since you are driving that will consume a good portion of your first day in each place and sticking to secondary roads will extend the time between stops.

I would probably do 1 night in Salzburg and 3 in Vienna.

Some here will tell you that your schedule is too tight to really enjoy anything. That really depends on your expectations - if your goal is a European roadtrip with some stops then I think that is what you will get. Keep in mind driving in Europe has some differences - many highways are not designated by directions N, S, E, W - but by the towns or cities in the direction - have a good road map and be familiar with the places on your routes.

Get an Int'l drivers license

Also driving trips are less fun and more tiring for the driver - they are busy paying attention (hopefully) to driving and can't always appreciate the surroundings.

If you pick up the car in one place and decide to turn it at a different one there can be a sometimes large fee.

You might consider Mainz instead of Frankfurt - it is a short train ride to FRA and is much smaller with some interesting sights - roman ruins & Chagall stained glass in a church to name a couple.

Hi,

We've done many driving trips in Germany and Austria, 8 in the last 12 years. Driving is easy in these countries, but as pointed out, the road signs are not posted with east, west, etc., but with the town names the road is is heading towards. In my opinion it makes driving easier. Also, you NEED to buy the Austrian Vignette (toll sticker for your car windshield) BEFORE you drive on a highway in Austria. Cost is only 8.50 Euro for a sticker good for 10 consecutive days. You can buy one at any gas station in Germany near the Austrian border. As long as you pick up and return the car in the same country, you should not have any extra fees. I will add that picking up the car at Frankfurt airport and getting out of there and on your way is pretty easy.

In fact we did a similar trip in Oct. 2007 as you have planned. We landed at Frankfurt at 6:30 am, picked up our car at the airport, visited a few towns on the Rhine, Marksburg castle and then to our hotel in Cochem on the Mosel. After 4 nights we headed to Rothenburg for 2 nights and then to the Berchtesgaden/Salzburg area for 4 nights.

I'd say your plan is too rushed with too much driving overall. You have 14 nights and 7 different overnight locations with longer drives between some. I would suggest dropping at least 1 destination and adding those nights to a couple of the remaining locations. I wouldn't do a day trip to Munich from Fuessen, as Salzburg is closer and more direct to Munich. I know it seems like backtracking, but Munich is closer to Salzburg than Fuessen. I would even try stopping in Munich on the way from Fuessen to Salzburg to break up the drive, unless you plan on drinking, then I wouldn't even think of driving.

Paul

The only other thing is to make sure your rental car folks are OK with you driving in the Czech Republic. You'll need to pick up an Austrian vignette for the car and the Czech Republic if driving on any express ways. Purchase at border crossings, not a budget buster.

1. Not including the day you arrive and the day you depart, you have 13 full days, and you are traveling, sometimes all day, on 6 of them. You need to spend more quality time in fewer places.

2. There are two rail connections every two hours from FRA to Bacharach. The RMV fare for two people is 22,40€. Depending on the connection, the trip takes 1 - 1½ hour. Driving takes about an hour if everything goes right, plus it takes time to rent the car. Considering you will be jet-lagged when you arrive, take the train.

3. Every place on your itinerary is readily accessible by public transportation. If you know of someplace you want to see that day that you can't get to with public transportation, rent a car for that day only.

I've been criticized for spending too much time in out-of-the-way places (half of the over 60 places I've stopped at or stayed in in the last 14 years have been under 10,000 population; 80% have been under 50,000), yet I've never used a car to get to any of them.

I think you are wise not to try to drive into Munich during Oktoberfest.

"Plan on renting a car at Frankfurt airport for duration of the trip as we like to take the less traveled roads and see rural sights."

I think a lot of us dream of traveling "the road not taken." Of course this is quite possible - but when the inevitable doubts about actually carrying out such a plan set in, many travelers summarily kick Robert Frost to the curb and pencil in a bunch of Rick Steves-approved destinations and accommodations instead (which I imagine is what you have done.) Like Rick's suggestions, your itinerary hits some of the Europe's most overrun places. Rothenburg and Füssen are notoriously overtouristed, and who has never heard of Vienna, or Salzburg?

The less traveled roads - and the lesser-known towns that you can also reach by train (and these are VERY numerous) really can be enjoyable. You just need to free yourself from the blue and yellow guidebook.

Ever heard of the Odenwald, Reichelsheim, Simonswald or Fußbach? Not that you have to go there. But if you wish to avoid sharing the roads and the towns you visit with the international tourist crowd, spend a little time reviewing some of the trip reports at Bavaria Ben's website. Ben and his followers have put together some enlightening pages that highlight both well-known and lesser-known destinations in southern Germany and Austria (and Switzerland too.)

Ben's 2012 trip
Trip reports from 1998 on

I generally agree with Lee that the train is no barrier to an itinerary based on rural towns. Like Lee, I prefer smaller places ; I have traveled in Germany for many years by car and by train and now use the train (and an occasional bus) exclusively. Trains are less expensive than car travel as well if you are armed with the proper information.

If I am dropping some destinations, which ones would you drop? I am thinking Prauge for sure and maybe one more. I will revisit the train travel. Just hate lugging the bags from the train station to the hotel. We did an Italy trip entirely by train and it worked fine, just getting to and from the train station was the catch.

Thanks for all the feedback.

" Just hate lugging the bags from the train station to the hotel. "

If you take taxis to and from the station, there's no lugging involved. I usually travel alone and I'm cheap, so I often take my bags on trams and buses, or schlep them some blocks through the streets. But when I travel with my mother or one of my friends, they wouldn't dream of doing that; a taxi from the station to the hotel is a given. In my "old age," I've started to come around to their point of view. Certainly for more than one person, the per-person cost is not usually high at all, so it's an "affordable treat."

I generally book hotels near the train station - across the street to a few blocks walk - not usually far. Even though we travel with only a carry-on each I am also not a fan of dragging bags on a metro or city bus. I generally start with google maps showing the hotels near the train station and cross reference them to TA or other such sites. I found lovely ones in Prague, Vienna & Mainz (near Frankfurt).

"If I am dropping some destinations, which ones would you drop?"

Hard to say - I'm somewhat unsure what you want out of this trip. You've indicated a preference for "rural" and "less traveled" places. So it's very puzzling that Frankfurt and Vienna are on your list at all (especially Vienna, considering the travel time required to get there.) It is easy to reach FRA airport from smaller places than Frankfurt itself.

Maybe you just need to unearth some of the many options for rural/small town/"back door" (as Rick dubs it) travel. Here are some things to look into before you pin down an itinerary.

Farm stays (Urlaub auf dem Bauernhof)
bauernhof-urlaub.com
Winery vacations (Urlaub beim Winzer)
Mosel River brochure

Theme roads:
The Castle Road
The Half-timbered House Road
The Fairy Tale Road
The Beer Roads (several of these in areas with a concentration of breweries take you to small towns in the hinterlands.)
Bierstrasse south of Frankfurt
(Note that the word "Road" doesn't have to mean driving - especially if you do a "beer road"!)

Open-air museums (amazing rural "towns" recreated through the relocation of historical buildings) like the one in Bad Sobernheim (not far from Bacharach) and the one in Bad Windsheim (near Rothenburg.)

Franconian Freilandmuseum
Rheinland-Pfälzisches Freilandmuseum

You don't have to research a whole new list of destinations just because you mentioned getting off the beaten path, as long as you're happy to share the towns with some other tourists. The towns you've read about are all worthwhile, and having the resources of a guidebook helps you know what you're getting into on the first visit. A mix of bigger cities and smaller towns is usually my preference. Still, cutting something would make the trip more pleasant. I would want at least three nights in Prague or four in Vienna. I would be willing to cut time in Frankfurt (sorry, Frankfurt). You're also missing what Munich has to offer other than Oktoberfest; museums will not especially crowded when everyone else is busy drinking beer.