Logistics - train vs. car

Hi,

I'm commenting on the Hamburg to Paris question: I would fly.

Going from Hamburg to Paris used to be a lot less complicated, too circuitous now, unless you want spend most of the day on the train, which means not going through Belgium but transferring once in Frankfurt, both legs on the ICE (Hamburg Hbf -Frankfurt Hbf and Frankfurt Hbf-Paris Est) You still arrive before 5pm. in Paris.

In October I completed travels by train that took me along the Bremen - Münster - Duisburg - Xanten route. Moers has a station maybe 20 minutes out of Duisburg on the way to Xanten. Syke is just south of Bremen and has a station as well. I actually made stopovers of a few hours in Bremen and Münster and didn't really have any "flexibility issues" - I observed the train schedules (service is frequent and dependable) and planned around them, very simple. Who knows where your host family is in Moers, exactly, but if they can fetch you I don't see any reason you couldn't use train to reach these places.

Obviously Hamburg and Lübeck are easy to reach by train as well. I wouldn't want a car in Hamburg, really. Also, there are direct RE trains every 2 hours from FRA that travel the Middle Rhine Valley to Bacharach, Oberwesel and Boppard (and other trains in between that require a change of train but that will get you to these and other villages, including St. Goar.)

In northern Germany, where the rail network isn't as dense, I would recommend driving. But for the intitial part of the trip, definately rail. Even though Mainz is a short drive from the airport, if you've never driven in Germany, arriving jet lagged into one of the most densely populated regions of Europe isn't the time to learn You can reach Mainz very easily by rail.

I would not want to drive anywhere immediately after arriving with jetlag, and you won't need a car in the Rhein valley.

You can take regional trains from FRA to Bacharach in 2nd class on a local ticket for 11,60€/adult. A child ticket (probably under 15 yo) is 6,95€.

Or you can go all the way to St. Goar for 17,90/adult and if the daughter is under 15, she travels free with you.

You can travel in Rheinland-Pfalz on a regional day ticket, good from 9 am to 3 am the next day weekdays for 28 euro for 2 people. If daughter is 15 or under, its 24 euro but she must be listed on the ticket. That covers Mainz to Koblenz to Cochem. You'd need to get a bus from Bullay to get to Zell or a taxi. You could get one of the K-D boats from anywhere along the Rhine through the gorge area, get off and continue traveling by train. I think that would be more convenient without a car.
Rheinland-Pfalz to Moers is straight forward using the train with a change in Duisburg. Moers to Syke is also doable with changes in Duisburg and Osnabruck. At some point you may want to pick up a car and drop at Hamburg airport. Paris to Frankfurt airport is also easy. Get an advance purchase ticket for that to save $.

Hi - Thanks for the fast replies and the helpful information. I'll plan on the train for the first couple of days, as I am not keen on driving in an unfamiliar city (and I don't speak German...although I once knew enough to ask directions, etc.) after a long (14+ hours) day of travelling. I think I will try to find a flight that arrives into Frankfurt earlier than 4:30pm. If I decide to get a car, we can it pick up when we get to Dusseldorf/Moers, as I think it will be convenient for rest of the trip. We will have a couple of nights each in Syke, Hamburg, and Lubeck/Travemunde. The person who lives in Hamburg lives outside the city center so hopefully we can find her place without too much trouble. Now I just need to decide where to stay our first and second nights along the Rhine. before going to Moers. I'll also look into carriers for the flight from Hamburg to Paris. Oh, and my daughter is 18 so I believe she'll pay the student fare on the trains,

As far as I know, except for the provisions below, there are generally no student fares in Germany.

A youth under 26 can get a lower price for a 2nd class German Rail pass.

The Bahn Card, which gives discounts on full fare tickets, costs less for youths and seniors.

Some Verkehrverbünde (metro districts) have lower fares for monthly and annual passes for students.

But otherwise, if your co-traveler is 15 or older, they pay full adult fare on Germany Rail.

Once you get to where you are staying overnight on the Rhein, the next morning, take the train to another town on the Rhein and take the K-D boat back to your starting point. By showing your train ticket to that town, you'll get a 20% discount on the boat ticket back.

Thanks for the suggestions! Sounds like a train is the way to go for the first couple of days, and I can always reserve a car for pickup in Dusseldorf/Moers or Bremen if needed. My host family thought the car would be easier since we then wouldn't be dependent on train schedules, but I'll talk more with them and think about it. Regarding student train fares - thanks for clarification - I had confused the regional tickets with the passes, and the Thalys fares. Given that we would be arriving in Frankfurt in the late afternoon, I may opt to stay in Frankfurt or Mainz for the first night since I know we'll be tired, and then the next day, we can take the train to one of the smaller towns along the Rhine.

"Given that we would be arriving in Frankfurt in the late afternoon, I may opt to stay in Frankfurt or Mainz for the first night"

There are a lot of direct (no change) REs from Frankfurt airport to (for example) Bacharach in less than an hour. Even if you have a change in Mainz or Bingen, it won't take much longer. Yes, you'll be jet-lagged, but it won't take much longer to get to a town on the Rhein.

However, if you must stay closer, I suggest that you stay in Mainz instead of backtracking to Frankfurt. In the past I have stayed here and was very satisfied. Königshof is right across the plaza from the Mains Hbf, from which you can get a direct regional train in the morning to anyplace (St. Goar, Bacharach) on the Rhein gorge. A single trip ticket from Mainz to Bacharach is 9€ each, but I might suggest that you get a Rheinland-Pfalz (Länder) Ticket for 27€ (for 2), as it would cover any other regional train travel you might want to do the rest of the day.

Thanks for all of the helpful information. Regarding Mainz, I guess I thought that after a very long travel day, and arriving at 4:30pm, it would be nice to find a hotel in the Old Town area, where we could eat, walk around a bit, and sleep. However, after looking at train schedules, I do see that we could get to a Rhein town (i.e. Oberwesel or Boppard) on a direct train in only an hour. So...we could go to one of those towns for two nights, and then we can take the train to Moers (or maybe our friends can pick us up in Duisburg, since that trip would only require one train change). It would be nice if we could catch the 5:24pm train on the day we arrive, but that might be wishful thinking.