Koblenz

Tip: whatever you do, learn how to write the German destinations correctly. Otherwise it can happen that you will get wrong info, e.g. from ticket systems etc.

And week 2 Black Forest area inc Munich.

I also hope you know that the Black Forest does not include Munich. Munich is almost 150 miles east of the Black Forest. Munich is in Bavaria, which would be a great place to visit, but it is not the Black Forest.

"Major regions rhine region inc trier / Chocem/ bernkastle and of course koblinz."

I assume that "we have a wedding in Koblenz" means "we" are the couple getting married. Congratulations!

So... is it also correct to assume that your wedding has you way "behind the curve" in terms of research and planning for this trip? Trier, Cochem and Bernkastel are a good distance up the Mosel River - not on the Rhine. See Rhine/Mosel map:

https://rhein-moselland-reisen.de/bilder/Karte-Rhein-Mosel.jpg

We can't fully plan an "itinerary" for you, but if you want a week in the Rhine/Mosel region after the wedding, I think your best bet is to start by getting reservations for 3-4 days in ONE Mosel town and again ONE Rhine town. I am going to suggest Cochem as your Mosel town, and St. Goar as your Rhine town. Cochem is half way between Koblenz and Trier (not a "dreamy hamlet" but a good place to visit on a day trip by train) and could also serve as a base town for easy day trips to Beilstein (by boat) and to Burg Eltz Castle (train + hike, or bus on Sat/Sun) and to Bernkastel (train + bus.) Like Cochem, the Rhine town of St. Goar is a very good base town for the Rhine "hamlets" of Bacharach, Oberwesel, and Boppard - all just a few minutes away by train. From St. Goar it's also easy to visit Braubach (Marksburg Castle) and Rüdesheim (famous wine town) on the opposite river bank by train (use the St. Goar ferry to cross to St. Goarshausen and board the train there.)

In St. Goar you can have a view like this one from your window or balcony at the Hotel Rheinfels or the Rheinhotel St. Goar.

For a nice cruise, take the train from St. Goar to Bingen and cruise back to St. Goar.

Your week's activities can be "planned" between now and the date of your stay - or you can just play it by ear once you arrive. It's very easy to catch a train from Koblenz to Cochem or to St. Goar - they run every hour. Local train tickets and day passes that cover train (and certain buses and ferries) are available at the station - you would never pre-purchase train tickets for these short distances.

(BTW... Marskburg Castle / Braubach are only a 10-minute train ride from Koblenz. So you might want to visit it from there instead of from St. Goar.)

It would be smart to pre-purchase a saver fare ticket for the journey from St. Goar to the Black Forest. Gengenbach is one good base town there.

https://reiseauskunft.bahn.de//bin/query.exe/en

G'bach participates in the KONUS program - you get a guest card for free train travel around the Black Forest from your innkeeper:

Wow, Russ, that was a really thoughtful and detailed post. :o)

Not only is Munich far away, Munich is one of the most boring places in Germany. Don't go to Munich or keep it short. If you do your trip by bus or train, you will waste an incredible amount of time making transfers. The best way to do this is by car. Let me know if you are up to a driving trip, and I'll make some suggestions.

I disagree with Russ on where to stay on the Mosel. My pick is Bernkastle because Cochem is a poor imitator of Bernkastle. Also, as Russ notes, Cochem is half way to Trier. From Bernkastle, Trier is short commute making a two night stay in Bernkastel an option, Besides, there is a hole in the wall wurst stand in Bernkastle where you can get a Bratwurst mit brot und senf, one of the world's great lunches or heavy snacks (carry out only).

Bernkastel really is exceptionally attractive, and kb1942's love for it is not misplaced. But Bernkastel is not so well connected for multiple outings by public transport - there's always a bus connection - so in the event you choose to stay there, a car would perhaps be handy. The Cochem base allows for doable day trips either by car or by public transport.

There's nothing wrong at all with train journeys to and out of Cochem. Koblenz to Cochem by direct train averages about 45 minutes - and it's virtually the same for the car. You can be in Trier in 50 minutes by direct train - again roughly the same by car. Moselkern (Burg Eltz stop) is 16 minutes by direct train from Cochem (same by car. If you do not want to do the iconic walk through the woods to Eltz, however, you can drive to the castle parking lot.) Bernkastel is not direct - it's train to Wittlich + bus to Bernkastel - but the buses are timed to coincide with train arrivals. So leaving Cochem at about 8 am for example, you will find it takes 58 minutes to reach Bernkastel including the 7-minute transfer time. The car? About the same - 62 minutes, says viamichelin - a transfer that actually saves a few minutes - who knew?

Likewise, the Rhine outings from St. Goar by direct train are quite simple and direct to Bingen and to other towns - 5 min. to Oberwesel, about 10 to Bacharach or to Boppard. I think the only transfer of any length might be the one in Koblenz, the one time you move base towns from St. Goar to Cochem - something like 30 minutes plus.

A rental car can be justified on many grounds - like you just want to drive - or you booked a hotel in some remote location, or you choose a base town like Bernkastel that has no train station, or you have a hobbled honey who can't handle a walk of several blocks. But with a good base town like Cochem, there is scant possibility that public transport in this region will force you to "waste an incredible amount of time making transfers." It probably wastes more time to look for parking, to pick up and drop off your car, to fill up with gas, etc.

One thing to consider is the abundance of wine (and of course beer) in the Rhine/Mosel and Germany more generally. You do NOT want to be celebrating / enjoying yourselves in an adult sort of way at one of the wine gardens and then get behind the wheel.

Highly recommend you buy a copy of RS Germany. It has great itinerary ideas. Went to Burg Eltz because it was recommended in his book. So glad we didn't miss it. We rented a car in Munich. Driving was not difficult and gave us opportunities we wouldn't have had otherwise. The KD cruise on the Rhine is wonderful. Don't miss it!!

thank you all so much!!! we are not getting married my best friend is tho. appreciate all the input. truly so helpful and yes i must spell the names better was typing fast while running after my toddler . muchas gracias

special thanks to russ for all the detailed into and to everyone else!!! truly thank you.

jody will do love RS guide books

Don't let a previous post deter you from going to Munich. Yes, there are closer interesting destinations, so Munich is by no means a "must". And it does not have the same "vibe" as other big European cities, such as Berlin. But it is home to some outstanding museums and art galleries. This includes the world's largest science and technology museum. There is a nice mixture of parks, old and new buildings, and a nice scenery around the city. Munich can also serve as a base for day trips, e.g. to the German Alps.

So we took the advice from here and booked an Airbnb in sankt Goar to explore the region. The wedding is in Urbar a town 5 min away. What should be our next stop? We want to explore the mosel valley for a few days any preference between Bernkastle or Belistein? 4 days ... then explore the Black Forest area for 4 days. Any Recs for the latter?

"What should be our next stop? We want to explore the mosel valley for a few days any preference between Bernkastle or Belistein? 4 days..."

See my previous suggestions for a Cochem base. If you are using the train to get there, buy a VRM "minigruppenkarte" or mini-group day pass at the station in St. Goar; €23.60 covers both of you. It's a day pass, so if you like, you could use it to go elsewhere the same day (maybe Moselkern and Burg Eltz Castle?)

Beilstein is tiny tiny. Bernkastel is more like a real town. But you do not have to choose. With 4 days you can easily visit both from a Cochem base. Catch a direct cruise boat from Cochem to Beilstein - very scenic! (There are buses too.) Cruising to Bernkastel on a day trip outing is possible as well - repost if you would like instructions.

If you stay in Beilstein or Bernkastel and want to visit the other, the fast way is more complicated and less pleasant... bus + train + bus, and you have to go through Cochem. So it's easier just to stay in Cochem.

There are lots of places to stay in/near Cochem. Multilingual accommodations directory: https://www.ferienland-cochem.de/nextshopcms/cmspdf.asp?id=823 Brochure pages 50-54 list vacation apartments. You'll likely find some things here that are not listed at Air BnB and other booking engines.

Cochem's chair lift ride - worth doing: https://www.cochemer-sesselbahn.de/index.php/chair-lift
Bundesbank-bunker in Cochem: https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g198637-d10195864-Reviews-Bundesbank_Bunker_Cochem-Cochem_Rhineland_Palatinate.html

Wow Russ you are amazing thank you!!! Researching now:))

(Not amazing, just fortunate to have traveled to the Rhine/Mosel region so often.)

Suggestion for Cochem: I'd normally suggest my go-to apartment but the owners retired. I sent my nephew to this place just up the street recently and he loved everything about it. It's on a steep street just below Reichsburg Castle and just above Cochem's market square. Site is in German only:

https://www.zum-froehlichen-weinberg.de/
Tripadvisor reviews: https://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g198637-d2626931-Reviews-Zum_Froehlichen_Weinberg-Cochem_Rhineland_Palatinate.html

It's a small inn - all the rooms (Zimmer) are listed by number on this page. Click on the photos:

https://www.zum-froehlichen-weinberg.de/unsere-zimmer.html

Zimmer 5 and 6 are not just rooms but small apartments with kitchenette.

The owner is Christa Wolff. If interested you can request an offer for your dates by email - once you receive it, confirm by email with your contact information:

[email protected]

If you think you might cancel, ask about the policy. German law generally says if you book, you pay - unless the owner chooses to offer cancellation options. You likely won't need to send a deposit. Your confirmation by email is your promise to pay.

thanks russ just checked that hotel is booked for our dates. but i got a cute little place on a vineyard 500m from city center in cochem. thank you
off topic for this post but since we have a toddler do you think cochem -strasborough is doable we have tuesday-saturday flying out of frankfurt saturday at 11;30 or should i explore another region around frankfurt looking for something different from mosel and rhine regions. rothenburg peraps?

If you're going to travel that far (Strasbourg) for a few days then you could stay instead in the Black Forest area as you had thought before... and go to Strasbourg on a day trip. Gengenbach is a good base town choice - looks like Rothenburg, if that's the sort of look you're after, with old town walls/towers. The scenic Black Forest Railway passes through Gengenbach and other Black Forest towns nearby...

https://www.black-forest-travel.com/places-of-interest/black-forest-railway.html
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Verlaufskarte_Schwarzwaldbahn_(Baden).png

To reach Strasbourg, you travel by train to Offenburg, Kehl (French Border) and then Strasbourg (around 40-50 minutes total on most trips.)

Any train trips on the German side will be free with the KONUS guest card that you get from your Gengenbach innkeeper (not available in Strasbourg.)

I don't quite grasp your time parameters. You'll have to check the train schedules to Gengenbach or Strasbourg and to FRA later, and see if a stay there works for your needs. Generally speaking I'd want to stay the night before your flight out within 30 minutes of the airport.

I have zero experience traveling with a toddler like this. I guess others may have and can provide such advice.