Itinerary for southern Germany

There is direct ICE service from Vienna to Regensburg every 2 hours taking about 3 hours. So that would be a good first stop.

Regensburg to Garmisch-Partenkirchen is also about 3 hours with frequent service using a Bayern Ticket. Since there is frequent bus and train service connecting Garmisch with Oberammergau and Mittenwald, that seems like a logical spot to spend some time.

It is about 4 hours to Lindau using a Bayern Ticket. Lindau is a good last stop before Zurich. Frequent service to Zurich by rail, and you could even try a ferry across the lake to Switzerland.

Thanks Sam

That sounds good. Could we fit one more stop in? I guess Freiburg and the Black Forest are too far to the west to be a part of this itinerary.

You are correct in thinking "...Rothenburg ob der Tauber, Regensburg and Bamberg and Dinkelsbuhl, ...seem too far out of our way...". While I like those particular towns, they are definitely in the "wrong" direction and need to be saved for another trip. Suggest you stick with just Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Mittenwald, Oberammergau, and Lindau.

I can divine that your travel must be by train, but I don't see the month of the year. If you are willing to go too far, and then back, I'd comment that Basel/Weil am Rhein are good for a few days. You didn't mention Konstanz, Schaffhausen, or the rural Black Forest (as opposed to just Freiburg.) If it's summer, because of the KONUS travel card, you wouldn't want to stay in Freiburg (no card) but you'd have free local transport in a beautiful area. If I were in Bregenz, Austria during July/August, I would go to any event, theater or opera, even if I didn't like the opera, on the massive lake stage (Seebühne) featured in one of the James Bond movies.

These are in Switzerland, just over the border, and hard to do without a car, but I'd mention also Stein am Rhein, Aarau, Augusta Raurica.

Rothenburg ob der Tauber is only 4 hours by train (2.5 hours by car) from Munich. It is by no means out of your way with 11 or 12 nights between Vienna and Zurich. I would probably add Rothenburg and remove Lindau.

Also, I would absolutely consider Salzburg and the surrounding sights as a main destination in this corridor.

• Salzburg (3-4 nights)
• Garmisch (3 nights; Mittenwald, Oberammergau)
• Rothenburg (1 night)
• Black Forest (2-3 nights; Gengenbach, Freiburg)
• Zurich (1 night)

I would also consider to rent a car from Freilassing (Germany, just outside of Salzburg- easy bus ride) and connect the Germany locations until Freiburg. Train to Zurich.

But, using your places of interest, here's what I would do for the itinerary from Vienna to Zurich:

[6-7 hour travel day from Vienna)
- Garmisch (3-4 nights; days trips Mittenwald, Oberammergau)
[4-5 hour travel from Garmisch]
- Lindau (2-3 nights)
[3.5-5 hours travel from Lindau]
- Black Forest (3-4 nights; Gengenbach, Freiburg)
[3-4 hours travel from Gengenbach; 2 hours travel from Freiburg]
- Zurich (1 night)

Judy on our last 3 trips my family has traveled extensively in the areas you are looking at. Can I ask what you like in a travel destination, maybe age of people in your party, how active you prefer to be, generally budget level you are happy with? You name a number of great stops that to some extent favor different interests.

Also is it correct that you are only interested in trains? Many of the places you mention are quite close to one another and not a problem to link by car or train for that matter. If you want to go to Freiburg go! It's not far from Zurich Airport. My family loves Freiburg, but we love gnome-y Black Forest details (in the city even), bicycles, the mountains. It's as close to a sun-drenched relaxed college town as you'll get in German. But if you prefer a few more sights, a bit more urbane culture, better food and wine you want Strasbourg, 45 minutes away by car. Or the same but trading some of the urbane for storybook fantasy in lovely Colmar.

The previously mentioned Basel is a delightfully international city with charm and history. It's also flipping expensive (I joke to my wife it's the most diverse place we've ever been - Basel has every kind of very rich person in the world). I can't stomach USD $70 for two bowls of Vietnamese noodles and two beer at a "budget ethnic" restaurant, so for me it's a passing through place.

Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Mittenwald, Oberammergau: the first if you want more of a city with interesting small city things to do right up against the mountains; the last two for more of the mountains are the village vibe.

Anyway a profile of travel-style and interest would help!

Henry

Thanks everyone

We’ll be leaving Vienna on about the 9 October, travelling only by public transport. We don’t want to rent a car. We’re a couple in our sixties, I have problem feet so can’t do much walking.

I like Alpine scenery and old towns. My husband loves Roman history and we both enjoy archeology museums and old castles.

I should have said that we arrive in Zurich on 12 September and have a 16 day trip by train planned - Wengen, Lucerne, Locarno and Thun.

After that we go to Salzburg by train, then probably Hallstatt then Vienna. We already have a night at a hotel booked in Zurich for our last night on 20 October.

When I looked at the train route from Lindau to Freiburg it looked quite complicated. I mentioned Gengenbach in the Black Forest as a possible destination. We’ve been to Strassbourg a few years ago so don’t want to go there.

I would like to stay at four places on my list that are easily connected by train and the last one should be an easy train ride to Zurich.

Thanks.

Berchtesgaden seems like a nice fit - stunning Alpine scenery, whole lot of which you can take in via tour boat, lift or car so maximal Alpine with minimal pressure on the feet. Lots of history.

The train from Lindau to Freiburg is a roundabout route - you must loop around the mountains one way or another.

Lake Constance has it's charms. Been previously and returning this summer. Note though that it's a long way from the majestic zones of the Alps, not right up on them like the long-telephoto pictures seem to indicate. Lovely though - Lindau is a gem :)

Should we stay a few days in Munich? I don’t have any real desire to, but is it a city that “should” be seen? When I said on an Austria forum that I wasn’t really interested in going to Vienna everyone was up in arms that I’d think of missing Vienna. Is Munich the same story?

Vienna is an absolute jewel of a city. It's like a smaller easier version of Paris. Munich is not in the same league in that respect IMO. Having been to Munich 5 times in my life -- and I do really like the place -- I'd argue that if you don't want any of its specific treasures (which are many), then you can get its general vibe and lifestyle elsewhere in Bavarian.

I've also found one needs to walk more in Munich than many big cities, which to me is a pleasure, but with your bum wheel you might be better off elsewhere if you don't really favor big cities anyway.

Vienna is an absolute jewel of a city. It's like a smaller easier version of Paris. Munich is not in the same league in that respect IMO. Having been to Munich 5 times in my life -- and I do really like the place -- I'd argue that if you don't want any of its specific treasures (which are many), then you can get its general vibe and lifestyle elsewhere in Bavarian.

I've also found one needs to walk more in Munich than many big cities, which to me is a pleasure, but with your bum wheel you might be better off elsewhere if you don't really favor big cities anyway.

I think you should stick pretty much you first thoughts. Regensburg has some Roman structures incorporated into existing buildings. Munich is on the way to Garmisch-Partenkirchen and you would have to change trains there. So you could store bags at the train station and tour the town for several hours if you did not want to spend the night.

You could visit the Black Forest on a day trip from Lindau. It is 3 3/4 hours to Gengenbach each way and you can do it with a Baden-Wuerttemberg Ticket costing 30 EUR for 2.

Thanks for those ideas. I don’t think we’ll bother going to Munich then.

Another thought I had was to spend some time at Berchtesgaden. I know this can be done as a day trip from Salzburg but I’ve read that there’s a lot to see there, so I thought it might warrant it’s own stop.

So how could I also incorporate that into an itinerary? Maybe

Regensburg 3 nights

Berchtesgaden 3 nights

Garmisch-Partenkirchen 3 nights (see Mittenwald and Oberammergau)

Lindau 3 nights (see Black Forest as day trip)

Judy, you mentioned that you can't walk too far. I wonder if you have budgeted for taxis in places where there are not city busses. I wonder about the Black Forest without a car and without extensive walking. I wonder if you are limited to heavily touristed places with pretty surroundings, like (gasp!) Titisee, where you can take an easy boat ride too. Even Frieburg is a "walking city". But I loved taking a hiking trail from one town to the next, which is what Germans do in the BF. And I'm not a hiker at home.

Price is a problem in Basel, but I believe you could get a cab to the unusual Vitra Design Museum, which has a very light walking architectural tour (advance purchase necessary.) That cab would be crossing an international border, so check me on that. (I had a car.) The other question is whether you could get a cab to Augusta Raurica, which is a SUPERB Roman ruin. You might not be able to walk to the more distant Amphitheater, but there's two hours of touring within 400' of the parking lot. Finding an open restaurant is a little harder on the edge of that town. Also near the German border of Basel is the world-famous modern art museum, Fondation Beyeler, with a lovely independent restaurant on the property.

It's not at all nearby Basel, but I stayed at a luxury grand hotel in Hinterzarten in the BF, Parkhotel Adler. There's not much else in the town (except the excellent, walkable railroad station) but because it's a luxury hotel, they might be able ($$$) to arrange excursions for you easily. Because you could walk to the rail station, you could visit other towns, and Freiburg as I did by train. But I don't know about waterfalls and mountain views by train. At least the narrow mountain roads will be less crowded in October than my summer visit.

Berchdesgaden is just outside of Salzburg. You should extend the time when you are in the Salzburg area if you want to spend time there. It is an awkward stop between Regensburg and Garmisch.

It is 3 hours to Regensburg from Vienna, and 3 hours to Garmich-Partenkirchen from Regensburg. It is 4 1/2 hours to Berchdesgaden from Regensburg, and another 4 1/2 hours to Garmisch. It is all because of the way the rail network is set up. It is only a 50 minute bus ride from Salzburg to Berchdesgaden, so it screams to do it when you are in Salzburg.

Thanks Tim and Sam

We often use taxis for short distances when I don’t feel like walking. I hope there are plenty of taxis around in Germany as in smaller towns in France they often weren’t anywhere to be seen when I needed them.

I think we’ll see Berchtesgaden from Salzburg as it does sound more sensible. I’m in two minds about including the Black Forest in our plans. If we spend 3 nights at Regensburg, 3 nights at Garmisch-Partenkirchen and 3 nights at Lindau, we still have 3 nights left for somewhere else in Germany.

I’m wondering if we could incorporate Rothenburg ob der Tauber instead of the Black Forest. I can see there are a lot of train changes to get there but it does interest me. I’ve read that Gengenbach and Freiburg are nice but we’ve been to Colmar and Strassbourg in France and some of the small towns nearby, so I wonder if the Black Forest towns are similar?

I don’t want to spend any more time in expensive Switzerland except for returning to Zurich as we’ll already have spent over 2 weeks there earlier in the trip.

So my question now is really Rothenburg or the Black Forest for a few nights? I have decided the Black Forest is really too far for a relaxing day trip from Lindau, so we can leave it for a future trip to Germany if we don’t go there this time.