Itinerary and train pass suggestions

The itinerary is too aggressive right now. You don't have time for your intended sights within the time frames allocated to each destination. I am also unsure that you have looked carefully at the time you will spend on trains for the main travel legs and the day outings. I believe you will have to change some things, more than just one night anyway.

After Rome, 7 of your 12 hotel nights are in one Land (German state)... Bavaria... with 2 additional nights on Bavaria's back porch in Salzburg. This is not surprising, considering Rick Steves' advice and materials are the source of your research. With "castles" at the head of your list of priorities, it would be a shame to miss out on seeing the Rheinland, or some other part of the Germany besides Bavaria, but you seem really dedicated to Bavaria, so in the interest of actually accomplishing the ground travel and the sightseeing you have in mind there, I will reluctantly suggest dropping the outlier - 3 nights in the Rheinland... and allocating a night each to Rome, Salzburg, and Munich.

A discussion of day passes, p2p tickets, etc. should probably come after you've got a more doable itinerary in place.

I am not sure I would include Rome in this... or do more Italy if you do it. Doesn;t seem worth it to me to go there for just 2 nigihts... so far away from the rest of it.

Too many short stops, I think everyone will be exhausted. I would base in Munich for a longer stretch - you can day trip to Salzburg, take a Mike's Bikes tour to Neuschwanstein, Dachau, ride bikes in the Garten, relax at the river if hot. Nazi Documentation center here is great. Lots of great history in Berlin as well (if you decide to go up that way), and Nuremberg (esp if the big museum reopens - you could day trip here from munich as well). Your question when to pack up vs. day trip? My answer with kids, is pack up and move as little as is necessary!

I have not been to the Rhine area (planning that for next summer) - but you could base there and day trip out.

But I agree that this is waaaaaay too aggressive, especially with teens.

I LOVE Germany, but it is a lot of Germany - unless you want a German-focused trip, which is good too! With 2 weeks (I think roughly what you have?) I would maybe split into two countries, unless your goal is to see Germany alone.

Have fun!
Kim

Teen triplets...graduation trip? You and the kids have lots of time to plan. I encourage all of you to read and research (Chat GPT can be a useful tool) as you plan.

Regarding the D-Ticket, it stlll may make sense even if you need one for May and another for June. Look at what daily local transit costs in the cities you will visit and use plubic transport and the approximate cost of train tickets to compare to D-Ticket. It may come out to more than the D-Ticket and the D-Ticket may be more convenient than buying one-off or day tickets. I find that I break even in about a week or less on my trips, then the rest of the month is free.

You mention evenings in beer gardens. I trust you know that your family members are all of legal drinking age in Germany.

I would skip Rome unless it is an ABSOLUTE MUST for the trip. If you do go there, fly to Munch rather than taking a night train. Definitely overnight Salzburg rather than a day trip. If it was me, I’d add another day there.

If you have 3 extra days because you skip Rome, I would add a day each to Salzburg, Rothenburg ( day trip to Nuremburg or ? ), and Boppard

I recommend the Ice cave in Werfen, but it does require a cable car to get there

Thank you for the responses. The triplets will still have a year of high school to go. My wife is Dominican so most of our trips have been to the Dominican Republic to visit family and let the kids learn more about their background. We always tended to home base for at least 5 days but then last year we hopped around, staying at places for a couple days and moving on, catching highlights of the area. That seemed to work well. And reading responses to other posts on this forum, it appeared that a lot of people aren't fond of day trips because of the train ride out and the ride back, which was why I set all locations with at least a 2 night stay. But I'm beginning to see that may not be efficient either. 2 nights in Fussen and 2 nights in Rothenberg obT is more than needed for what we want to do. I've done day trips to Neuschwanstein and Salzburg. It seems like it could be possible to day trip from Munich to Hohenschwangau in the morning, Linderhof in the afternoon, back to Munich for the evening. It does avoid transferring to another hotel, but does take the entire day to see a castle and a palace.

I spent a summer during college in the Rheinland-Pfalz area working on a farm, so I don't want to eliminate the stop along the Rhein. I think I need to spend time thinking about how many castles do we really want to see and removing sites that are lower priority. I want to expose the kids to highlights in several areas hoping they want to return to explore areas in greater depth. But I want an itinerary that actually works well.

I was aware of the legal drinking age, but thank you for pointing it out. I had my first beer at the Hofbrauhaus when I was 18. Well, my first half beer. I couldn't drink the whole thing.

It seems like it could be possible to day trip from Munich to
Hohenschwangau in the morning, Linderhof in the afternoon, back to
Munich for the evening.

To resolve your uncertainties you will need to consult the German Railways search page; enter your anticipated travel date and the stopover time you will require at each of these places (including walking time, tour time, meals, etc.) Then consult with your fellow travelers on feasibility.

A quick check on my part, using a random date andzero stopover time... if you were just to do the loop by public transport without any tours or other activities, in other words... indicates that you will spend 7-9 hours on 2-3 trains and 5 buses for a round trip out of Munich.

Yuck, that looks awful. I need to either remove those stops are revert back to staying a night near Fussen. I think that type of day trip doesn't sound appealing. Thank you for shining a light on the absurdity of trying that!

...I don't want to eliminate the stop along the Rhein... I want to
expose the kids to highlights in several areas hoping they want to
return to explore areas in greater depth. But I want an itinerary that
actually works well.

To keep the Rhine and perhaps a tighter travel radius... and still experience regional differences... It would be a simple matter to shift the focus of your trip from Southern Bavaria + Rheinland-Pfalz to Rheinland-Pfalz and surroundings. Between Cologne in the north and Stuttgart in the south, there is an abundance of castles, palaces, and half-timbered/old-world towns... The "German Castle Road" is just north of Stuttgart:

https://i0.wp.com/www.travelsignposts.com/Germany/files/2010/04/Castle-Road.gif

And the German half-timbered-house route surrounds Stuttgart:

https://www.deutsche-fachwerkstrasse.de/en/Routes_Cities/From-the-River-Neckar-to-the-Black-Forest-and-Lake-Constance.html

We returned recently from a stay in the above area which included a river cruise to Besigheim (one of the half-timbered route towns) on the Neckar River. Lots of hikers, bikers and canoe-ers in this area, if you're looking for some outdoor activities.

Besigheim video in German (but the visuals tell the story...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1xqGvinerc

The route north includes many wine regions, cycling routes (the Mosel is nice for this,) a Nazi Documentation Center, WW II and Holocaust memorial sites, UNESCO World Heritage sites, regional distinctions, grand cathedrals, birthplaces of great composers (like Beethoven) and writers, and some big-name destination cities too (Cologne, Trier, Stuttgart, Heidelberg, Bonn, Frankfurt.) Pretty much everything you're looking for.

I would look into flights from Rome to Stuttgart. Then use the rail system for the places you choose to stay/visit. Flying home would be possible from FRA, CGN, or LUX, depending on where you stay last.

Hi, Matt! You have been very cheerful and welcoming on feedback. I do want to mention that this is your trip and it only needs to meet the needs of your family. If the style isn't someone else's, don't worry.

As a retired high school teacher, my first thought is that with three teenagers you are probably not going to have a lot of early starts unless they are, by some miracle, morning people. Keep this in mind while traveling and try to avoid too many early starts or they won't enjoy the trip as much.

I will let you hash out the details of how many nights where and when. I will say, that I traveled with my son and his wife last September for a week in Germany and we found that the "D" ticket gave us great value in several ways. The first way was that we saved money. If we were to add up the train, subway, bus and tram tickets they would have come to far more than 49 euros each for us. One round trip train ride from Munich covered the entire cost of the ticket. Beyond that, it was incredibly pleasant to have one ticket cover everything. We didn't have to worry about buying tickets but could just access transportation. I think that might be very nice for your family since your children are certainly old enough to ride public transport on their own. There might be times when you want to take a break and they want to go see some sight. D tickets make that pretty easy.

The other thing I noticed in your posts is that with 5 people you have a lot of opinions and that can make travel planning even more challenging. When I trip plan for traveling with others, I will usually try to find out what are the "top 2" places/experiences that each person is looking forward to. I see if we can at least manage those and don't worry if I can't please everyone all the time.

I remember the pressure of having children the age of your children. It is easy to feel like your chances of traveling as a family are slipping away. You truly want to make it a memorable trip for both them and you. I have good news for you. The travel isn't necessarily over when they head off to young adulthood. I often travel with my kids. Now we don't usually all go at once, but I will travel with one child's family and then travel with another. The exciting thing to me is that they want to travel with me! We have the transition to adult relationships and it is still good.

@Russ, interesting idea you have of the switch-up to the Stuttgart area. When I day tripped to Stuttgart and Heidelberg in 1990 and 1991, they seemed a bit unremarkable. That's likely why I didn't consider it now, with wanting this trip to be very memorable to the kids. But this whole discussion has caused me to be a bit introspective and ask myself why I really enjoyed Munich.

@Carol, you are exactly right. There is a bit of fear of these opportunities running out. It's good to be reminded that travelling doesn't have to end when they move out. And I like your idea with the D-ticket. Once we get to Europe I intend to start teaching them how to read the train schedules right away and hope that at least by the end of the trip (assuming we would be in an area like Boppard for several days) that they could go off on their own and explore with confidence. And I'm going to confirm their "top 2".

When I day tripped to Stuttgart and Heidelberg in 1990 and 1991, they
seemed a bit unremarkable.

Ditto here for Stuttgart. I would not stay there myself. But the Porsche and Mercedes museums and other places nearby line up well with your interests, and the sights I'd suggest are within easy striking distance from each other by train.

You do not need to sleep or sightsee in Stuttgart to see these places. Ludwigsburg Palace, north of Stuttgart in the town of the same name, is quite a place. If you stayed in Ludwigsburg, it would be only 7 train minutes plus a 15-min. walk to Zuffenhausen for the Porsche Museum... to Besigheim just 11 train minutes... to the Mercedes-Welt, just 35-40 minutes.

Ludwigsburg: https://travel.ludwigsburg.de/start/see+_+explore.html

I forgot to suggest Guttenberg Castle, which, like Hohenwerfen, has a falconry exhibition. The train to from Ludwigsburg to Gundelsheim takes just 1 hour; walk from there to the castle.

Heidelberg: It's likeable IMO but not as impressive as other places. No problem skipping it. There's much more to choose from as you head north to Rheinland-Pfalz.

"I spent a summer during college in the Rheinland-Pfalz area working on a farm."

Curious where... In the Hunsrück region, maybe? Might be cool to revisit the place with your family...

The falconry exhibition is exactly what drew me to Hohenwerfen. This could be a good alternate.

It was a farm between Gollheim, Biedesheim, and Lautersheim. It felt very unaccessible back at that time. I was mostly stuck on the farm until I met a neighbor who liked going out in the evenings. It was a fun and memorable way to spend a summer.

Never been to those places myself, though I did an unmemorable farm-stay once in nearby Hochspeyer.

East of Lautersheim is Worms and Osthofen, one of the Concentration Camp/Holocaust Memorial sites (and of course the Wormser Dom.)

https://www.gedenkstaette-osthofen-rlp.de/en/osthofen-concentration-camp

https://www.gedenkstaette-osthofen-rlp.de/fileadmin/gedenkarbeit/PDFs/Osthofen/Blatt_Osthofen_e.pdf

To get there take the train to Osthofen station and walk 3 minutes to the site.

I have more clarity now on our trip. I read in the Italy forum that 2025 will be a year of Jubilee and to expect larger than average crowds in Rome. So we nixed that part of our trip and also added a few extra days. Otherwise, we decided to stick with many of our original stops. Also, because of prices we are flying in and out of Frankfurt from the US. Right now we have these stops.

1 night flight (Wednesday June 4 arrive June 5)
2 nights Rothenburg ob der Tauber (Thurs-Sat) 4 hours from Frankfurt to RodT
3 nights Salzburg (Sat-Tues) 5.5 hours RodT to Salzburg
5 nights Munich (Tues-Sun) 2 hours Salzburg to Munich
2 nights Fussen (Sun-Tues) 2.5 hours Munich to Linderhof (website indicates it's open Sundays), 2.5 hours Linderhof to Fussen
5 nights Boppard (Tues-Sun) 8.5 to 9.5 hours Fussen to Boppard
1 night Frankfurt (Sunday night) 1 hour

Originally we were going to fly into Munich, so it seemed to make sense to start the trip in Salzburg. Since we're flying into Frankfurt, I'm trying to minimize the first train to Salzburg by moving the stop to Rothenburg first. Is there a better order of stops in this? Additionally, I see on the D ticket, it will take about 9 hours to get from Fussen to Boppard. Any suggestions of a place along the way to stop and see/do something before continuing on?

Our flight leaves Fankfurt Monday morning at 8:35. Can we stay in Boppard Sunday night and still get to the airport on time? Or will we need to spend the final night closer to the airport?

Appreciate any feedback. Also planning the trip with the thought of getting D tickets for all of us, hence the slower travel between longer destinations.

Is there a better order of stops in this?

Yes, but with your one-airport-only strategy, your D-Ticket simply cannot serve as a fix-all for the long journeys you must make. Munich, Füssen, Linderhof are so far from Frankfurt that they might as well be in Austria with Salzburg and Hohenwerfen. Rothenburg does break up the long trip. But you now need your long trip to Boppard broken up as well.

You'd have better luck altogether if you flew into FRA (and saw Boppard up front, a shorter trip from FRA than Rothenburg on that first day!) then sandwiched Rothenburg in between Boppard and Munich... you'd then see all those southern places and fly back out of Munich.

I just bought an open-jaws (multi-city) ticket like this. Surprisingly it was $150 less than round trip would be to either of my other two main destinations...
Anyway, to keep your airports as they are... you need to SUPPLEMENT the D-Ticket, which was never intended for trips like Füssen > Boppard, with SAVER-FARE tickets using the long-distance, high-speed trains. Some of this route will still be on regional trains, but high-speed trains in the middle will make a big difference. Saver fare tickets can be purchased with a STOPOVER on the schedule in some intermediate place of interest on such long trips. Augsburg, Ulm, and Stuttgart are standard stops on this journey, but you can schedule in any stops you like on the way...Esslingen (near Stuttgart) is a good option, but maybe you'd prefer Ludwigsburg (palace) or Mainz, just as examples.

And yes, you need to stay in Mainz or at FRA on your final night, and get up early for an early train (20-25 minutes for Mainz - FRA by direct train.)