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Itinerary Advice, please help me!

I am planning to go to Germany end of October and early November. Originally, I came up with the following itinerary: (two adults solely rely on public transportations for the trip). Please forgive any misspelling (not an excuse):
11/7: Arrive in FRA.
11/7-11/9: Stay in Frankfurt. Day trips to Heidelberg and Braubach (to see Marksburg).
11/10-11/11-Stay in Rothenburg. On the way to Rothenburg, visit Wurzburg.
11/12-11/14: Stay in Nurnberg. Days trips to Bamberg and Regensburg.
11/15-11/16: Stay in Fuessen.
11/17-11/20: Munich. Day trips to Augsburg and Salzburg.
But now I want to reverse the itinerary and also make a few changes:
10/31: Arrive in Muc.
11/1-11/3: Munich. Day trips to Fuessen (with a tour company) and Augsburg.
11/4-11/5: Salzburg.
11/6-11/8: Nurnberg. Days trips to Bamberg and Regensburg.
11/9-11/10: Rothenburg. On the way to Rothenburg, visit Wurzburg
11/11-11/13: Frankfurt. Day trips to Heidelberg and Braubach (to see Marksburg).

Which one is better? Does the order of the itinerary make sense?

One reason I wanted to make the changes is so that we can be in Germany earlier (a little warmer) and also come back to the US earlier. Another reason is with the original itinerary, the hotels in Nurnberg are much more expensive.
Thank you very much for any advice you can share.

Posted by
680 posts

I like this switch if you've found better hoterl raters in Nuremburg.

rely on public transportations

Are you getting a D-Ticket? I think you have enough local routes and metros to justifyl. BTW, Munich to Salzburg is permited on the D-Ticket.

Posted by
7072 posts

The 2nd one is the one you prefer, and it looks mostly alright.

I suggest that on 11/6 you head straight to Regensburg for a daytime visit and proceed in the pm that same day to Nuremberg for the night. That will save you the round-trip from Nuremberg for Regensburg and provide more time for Nuremberg.

You may want additional time for Nuremberg on the morning of 11/9; suggest you travel mid-day or early afternoon from N'berg directly to Rothenburg on 11/9 for arrival around check-in time. 2 nights in Rothenburg.

On 11/11: THIS is the day to see Würzburg since going to Frankfurt, you pass through it anyway (which you would not normally do from Nuremberg to Rothenburg.) I would actually suggest that you not sleep in Frankfurt on this night; travel a little further to either Wiesbaden or Rüdesheim, both Rhine River towns, so that your day trip to Marksburg is much simpler and you have some more time on the Rhine (for Rüdesheim itself, for example.)

(In both Würzburg and Regensburg you can stow bags in a station locker while you sightsee.)

11/12, 13. Visit Marksburg, Rüdesheim; proceed to Frankfurt for the night. Day trip to Heidelberg on 13th,
final night i Frankfurt.

Posted by
87 posts

Thank you.
Yes I will get the D-card for November. For the one day in October, we will get a group day ticket but I haven't read the details of what zone or zones should we purchase the day ticket-Zone M or Zone Z or both.

Posted by
87 posts

@Russ Thank you so much for your detailed suggestions.

I like all your suggestions and made the adjustments accordingly (see below), but am not sure if there is much to see in a Rhine River town in November? Also, I try not to have one night hotel stay but if staying in either of the towns is worthwhile, I will. Which town do you prefer?
BTW: I have read many of your posts especially those about how to visit Rhine River and was really excited that we can do it before I learned that there will be no cruise in November. I scrapped Rhine River off from my plan and then re-read one of your posts on how to do a day trip visiting Marksburg so I added it back. I think adding Rhine River adds a little variety to the itinerary.
10/31: Arrive in Muc.
11/1-11/3: Munich. Day trips to Fuessen (with a tour company) and Augsburg.
11/4-11/5: Salzburg.
11/6-11/8: Nurnberg. On the way to Nurnberg visiting Regensburg. Day trip to Bamberg.
11/9-11/10: Rothenburg. Spend the AM in Nurnberg and leave for Rothenburg in the PM.
11/11-11/13: Frankfurt. On the way to Frankfurt, visit Wurtzburg. Day trips to Heidelberg and Braubach (to see Marksburg).

Posted by
87 posts

@Russ-
I did a quick search on DB’s website and found going from Salzburg to Regensburg requires at least 3 hours and includes multiple transfers. If we take the train at 7:08 and arrive in 10.07. Are 5-6 hours enough for the town?

Also, on11/11, if we visit Wurzburg on the way to Frankfurt (or Rüdesheim). It’s going to be a long day. Are 5 hours enough for Wurzburg? Also, from Wurtburg to either Frankfurt or Rüdesheim requires an ICE. So we need to book the ticket in advance.

Both are probably long days but doable. Thank you for the recommendations.

Posted by
7072 posts

On 11/11 after Würzburg, I'd probably be on a train at around 5 pm for Rüdesheim (arrive around 7:30 pm?) preferrably. Rüdesheim doesn't shut down altogether like some towns and it gets visitors at worse times of the year than early November. Lots of good restaurants there if you want an evening meal but I would have a few in mind and check their hours and days of operation beforehand. It's a good idea not to book in lesser towns which really do shut down hard. But R'heim should be OK and availability/prices should be too. Marksburg probably doesn't open until 11 (do check,) so you'd have some time after breakfast to explore Rüdesheim on foot in the morning before Marksburg. A stay in R'heim will provide some additional Rhine atmosphere that Frankfurt cannot. Wiesbaden is IMO a back-up just in case R'heim doesn't work out for some reason.

It's not impossible to day trip from from Frankfurt, but daylight hours are short and the journey time on this day lengthens... From Frankfurt you would be 2 hours from Marksburg; from Wiesbaden 1 hr 20 minutes; from Rüdesheim, the train ride to get there drops to 47 minutes.

On 11/12 you could leave bags at your hotel upon checkout, enjoy Rüdesheim on foot for a while, then catch a train to Braubach and return to R'heim in the pm after your outing - and perhaps have dinner there before heading to Frankfurt for the night.

After Marksburg (which probably opens at 11?) a detour to Boppard and/or St. Goar is feasible; nothing wrong with having a nice stroll and maybe a meal in one or the other. From Braubach take the train to Koblenz (10 min.) where you change trains for Boppard (15 min.) and St Goar (10 min. further south.) Riding the west bank rails will give you a different view of the river gorge and will allow you to have a walk around one town or the other before returning to Rüdesheim. I would end the west-bank train ride in St Goar; use the ferry dock. The ferry leaves ST Goar at 10, 30, and 50 minutes after every hour for St Goarshausen until 9 pm.

https://faehre-loreley.de/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Fahrplan_2024.pdf

Once you are back on the other side of the river, trains leave St Goarshausen at :27 after every hour (some hours also at :57 after) for the 25-minute train ride back to R'heim.

Rhine map with railways, ferries, towns, etc.:

http://www.loreley-info.com/eng/rhein-rhine/walking-hiking.php

(I've corrected a part of this that appeared previously with missing text.)

Posted by
7072 posts

I was in fact thinking of 5 hours or so for both Regensburg and Würzburg.

You CAN take regional trains only from Würzburg to Rüdesheim. I see a regional 2-train journey from 16:37 - 20:05 with a 21-min. layover in Frankfurt. You need to specify "local transport only" under "mode of transport" to find such journeys. Might be be good to have a hefty mid-day meal in W'burg and snacks /sandwiches for the train ride to Rüdesheim.

Rothenburg to Würzburg in the am takes only a tad over 1 hour (9:05 - 10:16, for example.)

Posted by
87 posts

@Russ-Thank again for another detailed explanation. I will re-read your messagesincluding the links. I do like the opportunity to explore the Rhine River region t but I am not sure we want to arrive in a new town in late evenings (I think days get dark around 4:30pm so we cannot completely avoid being in the dark outside of our hotel rooms, but I will be more comfortable getting to the hotel around 18:00). I also need to consider the following day-we have plans every day. So if the day before lasts too long, it will affect us the next day. We are in good health but don't want to risk getting exhausted.

But I sincerely appreciate your advice and will seriously consider and discuss it with my partner.

Posted by
87 posts

@Russ-Do you agree that my new plan (from Munich to Frankfurt) is better than, or at least as good as my original plan? I haven't changed the flights yet (afraid that I might have missed something) but need to do that ASAP before the option disappears. Also need to cancel and rebook the hotels.
Thank you so much!

Posted by
8021 posts

jean, I don't know if you've found a cheaper hotel in Nuremberg yet, but if not, I stayed at the Hotel Privat-Probst in 2022, which is near the train station and Aldstadt and most attractions. It is on a higher floor but there is an elevator going up to it from the outside. I liked my stay here, as it was clean and comfortable, with excellent service for a very good price.

Breakfast is available for an extra reasonable cost. But you could also eat at Literaturhaus, which close by. It is on Luitpoldstraße and open for breakfast, lunch and dinner. I ate several meals there, including breakfast twice and several dinners. The food was very good--lots of German entrees--and a large and varied menu. I really enjoyed eating here and especially liked that most of the patrons I saw in there were Germans. On several occasions there were groups of locals there for various events. One was a book club meeting and another one was a birthday party for a woman who was turning 90. The book club group was sitting near me and told me that they meet there regularly (we spoke in German, although the servers speak English).

Posted by
87 posts

Hi Mardee-Yes Hotel Privat-Probst is on my list-i don't remember where I got the idea. It's not available for the days we will be in Nurnberg but if I change our plan it will be. Thank I you for your recommendation.

One problem I have had with multiple hotels is that they won't let us leave our luggage at their front desk if we arrive earlier than their check in times, which will be the case for almost all of our arrivals. I never encountered such a problem before. I asked when booking the hotel expecting the answer to be "of course" but I was wrong.

Posted by
87 posts

Speaking of hotels, did anybody have experience staying in Hotel Concorde which was recommended by RS in his book. I checked booking.com and the reviews were not so good due to the not-so-nice area it is located and the score for cleanliness was also kind of low, but it is convenient especially if you want to use the train station a lot like we will. Thanks!

Posted by
7072 posts

As for arrival in the evening, personally, I'm not bothered much by it, as long as I know where my accommodations are and how to reach them. A small town like Rüdesheim is reliably safe and navigble at any hour for my 70+-year-old bones, and after a few hours of walking around in a place like Würzburg, the longish train ride to R'heim would be welcome, I think. I am now somewhat in the habit of using the late afternoon/early evening for transportation as it's a time when museums and other sights are not accessible anyway... Did, this just last week... left Brugg AG in CH at 8:30 for Freiburg, had most of a day (and an outsized Schnitzel) there, then pulled into Singen for my last night in Germany at about 19:30. But I realize that what's comfortable for one sometimes ain't so comfortable for others.

The 15:37 departure from W'burg gets you to R'heim at 19:05 and would leave you with 5 hours in W'burg - if that sounds personally doable for the two of you.

As for your travel direction... yes, plan B looks just as good as A, and I don't see any glaring problems, but I don't know exactly what day-by-day activities you have in mind.

Posted by
87 posts

Russ-What you said about using late afternoons/evenings for transportations does make sense-I never thought about that way. And if we can get to R'heim by 19.00 it does sound doable. Plus it will give us additonal time to spend in the Rhine River area. We don't have to get up early to catch a train, etc. Marksburg opens from 11am to 4pm starting in November.

Thank you for confirming my plan. A confirmation from experts such as you gives me much more confidence.

Posted by
7072 posts

About your 11/6 Salzburg > REGENSBURG > Nuremberg journey:

I reviewed the details you provided... Are you genuinely OK with a 7:08 am start from Salzburg? Also, the DB site shows that 7:08 departure on a RailJet train, which is not eligible for the D-Ticket, and requires you to make a 4-minute transfer in Freilassing, with a second transfer of 8 minutes in Landshut. The final REGENSBURG > Nuremberg leg, done after a 5-hr. visit in R'burg, is by direct regional train and just one hour (15:45 - 16:46.)

So to find travel schedules for only the D-Ticket... be sure to select "only local transport." I did and found these for the first leg:

6:57 Salzburg > 10:07 Regensburg (requires 2 changes... 8 min. in Freilassing, 8 min. in Landshut.)

7:42 Salzburg > 11:12 Regensburg (requires 3 changes... 19, 19, and 9 minutes in Freilassing, Mühldorf, and Landshut.)

9:08 Salzburg - 12:07 Regensburg (only 1 change in Landshut, 8 minutes.)

My personal preference here would be the third option. Fewer changes, more relaxed departure that morning. What bothers me though with all off these is the change of platform with a fairly short layover time of 8/9 minutes in Landshut, which, with today's DB weak on-time performance, is quite iffy. SO... I adjusted the stopover time in Landshut (using the stopover feature at the DB site) to lengthen the minimum stopover time in Landshut to 20 minutes. This resulted in an actual stopover time of :32 minutes, as follows:

9:08 Salzburg - Landshut (32 min. layover) - 12:41 Regensburg

So what you have on this route is a reasonable back-up plan... if that first train cannot make its scheduled arrival in Landshut 11:21, hang out there in Landshut a little longer to catch the 11:53 instead, which gets you to Regensburg at 12:41 instead of 12:07.

Second Leg: Regensburg > Nuremberg: the Direct 17:45 - 18:46 RE train gives you a minumum of 5 hours in Regensburg. That would be my choice. There are later direct departures and 2-train departures after that as well as back-ups.

Posted by
87 posts

Russ-I cannot thank you enough for the well-thought, detailed options including backup plan! Thank you for selfless contributions.
I also like the third option better (I am an early bird but my partner is not).
I've saved your replies for further studying.