Itinerary advice for Germany Trip

which my husband feels is wasting time...

Wasting time as compared to what?

(Philosophical side note: Isn't a vacation supposed to be a waste of time? :-) )

Flying into Frankfurt would mean less train travel of course, and you don't have to stay in Frankfurt - there are dozens of appealing, "laid back" places in the German countryside to visit before heading to Munich.

Just for example... It's less than an hour to Bingen from FRA. Bingen is the gateway to the Middle Rhine Valley and dozens of old-world wine towns and castles. See map w/ FRA airport:

http://www.mittelrhein-wein.com/Bilder/rheinlauf-gross.jpg

Castle map: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Karte_Mittelrhein.png/1200px-Karte_Mittelrhein.png

Bacharach: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Bacharach_BW_9.JPG
Oberwesel: http://www.oberwesel.de/en/wandern0/stadtmauerrundweg/
Marksburg Castle in Braubach: http://www.marksburg.de/en/
Braubach: https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4143/4751924826_36d7071291_b.jpg
Boppard: http://home.kpn.nl/JLKampen1961/alb/Rome/Pauze%20in%20Boppard.jpg
Near chairlift summit above Boppard: http://ext.pimg.tw/samlucky5711/1379089584-1923285561.jpg?v=1379089585

The train will get you to all these places. Tracks run along both river banks.
https://www.mittelrheinbahn.de/assets/images/6/MRB_hres-45c0d886.jpg

You could easily spend two weeks just in Germany and see very little of Germany. I lean toward's your husband's point of view, because there are lots of places just as interesting as Amsterdam that are much closer to Munich. For example, we stopped in Munich (no interest in Oktoberfest) on an Austrian Airlines trip long ago that was Newark NJ (your home is not posted)-Vienna AM air Innsbruck PM-train Salzburg-train Munich-train Vienna-Newark NJ. But Prague or Berlin can also combine with Munich.

Although there is no substitute for the Anne Frank house (which can be difficult to book, and must be booked in advance to avoid disappointment), it would be fair to say that Germany has (to say the least!) widely distributed memorials to the horrors of World War II. I would say that Mauthausen and Dachau (referring to your itinerary) are much more horrifying than the Anne Frank House, maybe too much for you on this particular trip? I know you said AFH was just a starting point, but I think that a week in Amsterdam is not too much, allowing three or four days for commuter train daytrips. Do you have that much time? OTOH, the Resistance Museum and the Hollandsche Schouwburg in Amsterdam were, to me, more impactful than AFH. Maybe that's because I didn't read the Diary in High School and I don't feel that I have a personal relationship with "her." (Obviously, a personal opinion.)

You can spend two weeks in the Netherlands without running out of things to see.

the fastest way to get there is ICE train from Amsterdam to Frankfurt
and then to Nuremberg. I haven't looked at the times yet but I believe
it's a bout a 6 hour trip...which my husband feels is wasting time.

When your husband said that and then compared the rail trip with flying in terms of time spent and price, which does your husband prefer? Yes, I assume naysayers come up with alternatives instead of just complaining about time wasted. :-)

Anne Frank was actually born in Frankfurt and lived there until they fled the Nazis. There is some Frank family history to follow in Frankfurt (Anne Frank's story), and the Judengasse (Jewish alley) museum in Frankfurt is highly rated (disclaimer, I haven't been yet, but will see it in June.) So you have an option to combine interests but start in Frankfurt instead.

I love train rides but that's on the outer edge of how long I would choose to travel.

Thanks for the input! I am rethinking Amsterdam and think maybe starting in Frankfurt (or surrounding area) might be a better use of our time. I am a new travel planner and have only been to Italy where a travel agent planned our trip. So planning this next big trip on my own is a little overwhelming.
We have to be in Munich as we are meeting family and friends for a 50th birthday celebration the last 4/5 days of our trip. If we fly into Frankfurt I'd really love to try and get up to see Burg Eltz......or is that too touristy? Thinking we could rent a car and do that as a day trip from Frankfurt? Or maybe stay around there for a night. Is it pretty easy to drive in Germany ? Thinking we could take the train or drive from Frankfurt area to Nuremberg and then take the train to Munich.
Some of the sights I want to see are Dachau, and the nazi documentation center... we've been told by friends that Neushwanstein is a must see....??? but part of me would like to go to the zugspitze ( but not sure about weather since it will be in october).
Will definitely be reading over your recommendations.

Actually, I would not agree that Neuschwanstein is a must-see and it was definitely on my list of must-see places before I went. It's not really near anything else, so you have to burn travel time to get there and the English tour is very rushed and crowded (at least it was in late-June). It was so crowded when we went that it was hard to see anything and the guide keeps you on a tight schedule. You don't see that many rooms either since the palace wasn't actually finished when Ludwig died. The best part of it was the view from the balcony after the tour was over.

I realize that other people don't agree, but with limited time available, I wouldn't go out of my way to see it.

"If we fly into Frankfurt I'd really love to try and get up to see Burg Eltz......or is that too touristy? Thinking we could rent a car and do that as a day trip from Frankfurt? Or maybe stay around there for a night."

Eltz is a very fine place to visit. Rick Steves' page on the 3 most accessible Rhineland area Castles includes Eltz. The other two, Rheinfels (in St. Goar) and Marksburg (in Braubach), are on the Rhine River and closer to Frankfurt. Burg Eltz is off in the woods outside Moselkern (Mosel River town), close to Münstermaifeld. You can take the train St. Goar or Braubach and walk uphill to the castles in those towns in around 20 minutes or less. Burg Eltz is a scenic and popular hike from Moselkern train station - but it takes longer:
http://www.bensbauernhof.com/burgeltzfrommoselkern.html

I would not go to this region without spending at least one night. There is too much to see, do and enjoy. (See my previous post also.) St. Goar or Boppard would make for a good travel base for getting to the other towns and castles. KD Rhine River cruises operated on a regular schedule through the first 3 weeks of October in 2017; expect a similar schedule this year. I would trade the gruesomeness of Dachau (only Holocaust deniers don't know the story already) and the tourist hordes and fakeness of Neuschwanstein (well, it's a real palace with a fake castle exterior built just before 1900, not a castle at all) in an instant for visit to the Rhine/Mosel region.

I only brought up concentration camps because of the original mention of Anne Frank House. I did not mean to select particular attractions for a short trip to Germany. Indeed, my point was that you can see only a modest part of this huge country in two weeks. It's an honest mistake to think that Neuschwanstein (or Burg Eltz, for that matter) is an absolute must-see. Once you pick an area of Germany, it's very easy to come up with two-weeks of teriffic daytrips.

I agree with Russ that the Middle Rhine is a very rewarding destination for a few days. I wouldn't go without a boat ride, but the low-season timetable comes in in October, and then KD shuts down before the end of the month. I like the exterior of Burg Eltz, but I found the modern, lived-in interior to be a let-down. Not very medieval. Or did they have Elephant-foot wastebaskets in medieval times? To each his own.

I don't want to choose sights for smc, but she need to make a list of her family interests (like: art, architecture, history, war, churches, religious history, commerce, rivers, lakes, flowers, immigration, mountains, skiing, regular food, fine dining $$$$$, beer, wine, harvest festivals, soviet union, nazi history, theater, ballet, classical music, opera, porcelain, knives, (shopping for them too), castles, historic building techniques, pfifferling festival time, and so on.) There's plenty to do between Frankfurt (or Bacharach) and Munich. I'm not sure if she said they're renting a car or not. It can be done either way, but smc has so many interests that it might be wiser to plan on the Rick Steves method of four towns a day, which takes a car! (Ironica typeface)

smc, if this is only your second trip to Europe, you might want to go to the library and see if you like Rick Steves guidebooks. His whole composition style gives a good feeling for totally independent travel - even if he leaves out vast swaths of each country! If you like it, you can buy the new edition.

I have taken that ICE train from Amsterdam to Frankfurt and then to Nuremberg. I'm an experienced traveler, and it was my worst European travel experience ever. The schedule doesn't allow enough time in the huge Frankfurt station for a transfer. Many people missed that connection, and what should have taken 6 hours took about 10.

I'd suggest concentrating on Germany and renting a car for flexibility and seeing small charming towns as well as Munich. You could also spend time south of Munich seeing the various castles. Once you reach Munich, you don't need the car.

Good to know about the train from Amsterdam to Munich and the transfer situation. Not a good use of time. I have been reading a few other posts on this site regarding travel distances. I do feel as Americans we want to try to get in the big sites and travel over far distances in one trip. Probably b/c we only get so much vacation time a year (I get even less than my husband), but that is a whole other topic. I am still leaning towards flying into Frankfurt. I think I am nervous about renting a car in Germany. But am I assuming correctly that it probably is one of the best countries to drive in?

"But am I assuming correctly that it probably is one of the best countries to drive in?"

Yes. But then it also has one of the best train systems. And it's one of the best countries to visit as well, generally speaking.

Germany may not be a great country to RENT in judging from the many complaints I've read over the years on Tripadvisor about rental agency practices. Common complaints include expensive repair bills in the mail for scratches and dents the renter reportedly didn't make.

(500+ posts on this thread!) https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g187275-i116-k4081322-Don_t_rent_a_car_from_SIXT_that_s_all_I_am_saying-Germany.html

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g187337-i301-k5675839-Frankfurt_Airport_Budget_Avis_BEWARE-Frankfurt_Hesse.html

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g187337-i301-k9795331-Hertz_scam_Frankfurt_airport-Frankfurt_Hesse.html

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g1-i12334-k5758007-o30-Beware_Auto_Europe_car_rental-Holiday_Travel.html

The most comprehensive information on traveling in Germany (at least in English) is this:
https://www.gettingaroundgermany.info

"But am I assuming correctly that it probably is one of the best countries to drive in?"

Of course it is! This is the country that invented the automobile and the modern freeway system.

I'd recommend you take the tripadvisor horror stories with a grain of salt as you can find similar stories about renting a car anywhere. I've rented cars in Germany many, many, many times without incident (as have many of my colleagues). It's no different than in the US, UK, France, etc. I usually rent with Sixt when in Germany.

That said, you probably won't need a car with your itinerary. The only common time I recommend a car over public transport in Germany is when people want to visit Füssen from Munich as a day trip or one nighter. Yes, you can get there by train but the drive is nice and a car gives you the option to stop along the way at places like Starnberg, Wieskirche, or even venture into the mountains a little.

DJ

Nancy, you must have been extremely unlucky, as there is at least one train from Frankfurt to Nuremberg per hour; for the journey to last 10 hours instead of 6 hours, a lot has to go wrong (not saying this cannot happen, but it is less likely than being delayed 4 hours on the road if you take the car instead).
Transfer times are not usually an issue unless your incoming train is delayed. The size of the stations is accounted for in the schedules, and the layout of Frankfurt's central station is fairly straightforward. Anyway, if you want to have a schedule with longer transfer times, you can adjust these times in the advanced options when booking on bahn.com. From what I can see, there are a couple of different possible routings, most of which include generous transfer times at other stations than Frankfurt. Most take more than 6 hours, though.

As for driving, I think one has to differentiate. The population density of Germany is a lot higher than that of the U.S.; this affects the average traffic density and the road planning. You will not find those endless, straight roads where you switch on your cruise control and keep a constant speed for hours. The right lane on a lot of freeways (Autobahn) is often filled with trucks (except on Sundays), and driving can be stressful due to the high difference in speeds driven (if you do 160 kph / 100 mph on the middle lane, you have to expect a truck pulling out from the right lane at 80 kph, while a faster car passes you on the left lane at 230 kph). It is not actually more dangerous than driving in the U.S., but you have to get used to it.
Most German cities are not very car friendly, but have good public transport. So, to travel from city to city, and within the cities, cars are often a bad choice. In the countryside, with less traffic, less frequent public transport options, and often beautiful roads through mountain ranges and forests, a car can be the better option.

Population density (Bevölkerungsdichte) in Germany is the 2nd highest in Europe, only Holland has a higher one.

Thanks for the info on the population density. However we live in Chicago and although use public transit now, we know what traffic is like (especially vising other large cities in the US i.e L.A. and Atlanta). It's good to know though. I am wondering if we fly into Frankfurt and then try to go to somewhere like St. Goar for a few days and then would like to head to Nuremberg would a car be best around St. Goar or is the train system ok (especially if we want to hit up Burg Eltz). I figure we'd then head back to Frankfurt and take the train to Nuremberg for a few days and then on to Munich. Does this sound like an OK idea?

"...if we fly into Frankfurt and then try to go to somewhere like St. Goar for a few days and then would like to head to Nuremberg would a car be best around St. Goar or is the train system ok (especially if we want to hit up Burg Eltz)."

I've had a car in the Rhine/Mosel region but unless I'm going somewhere the train just won't go, I'd much rather use the trains. The scenery is best when you don't have to drive, and trains are frequent and efficient.

All the east and west bank towns along the Middle Rhine Valley are easily accessible by train lines that hug the riverbank on each side of the river - St. Goar, where the ferry crossing shuttles both pedestrians and cars and hooks you up with a train station on the opposite riverbank (St. Goarshausen,) is a particularly convenient base town. The Mosel River Valley has one main train line that hits most of the main towns (Winningen, Cochem, Bullay and Trier, for example) as well as Moselkern (where you can get off to walk to Burg Eltz.) If you cannot or do not wish to do this walk, the Burgenbus (castle bus) makes a connection between the Mosel River towns and the castle on weekends and holidays. If you plan to visit Traben-Trarbach, a secondary train line connects T-T and Bullay. But for Burg Eltz, on weekdays, you'd need a car or possibly a taxi if walking is not possible.

This map shows the train stops on both sides of the Rhine and along the Mosel as far as Wittlich (Trier lies beyond Wittlich but isn't shown) and Traben-Trarbach:

http://www.vrminfo.de/fileadmin/data/pdf/2015/Schienennetzplan.pdf

Nuremberg, Frankfurt and Munich of course are all major train destinations.

Map of all German train lines:

https://mdeen.home.xs4all.nl/temp/dbkaart.png