Individual tickets v. railpass / Philippsthal

I think you'll be happy with the flexibility of the 10-day German Pass for $314 per person. Seat reservations are optional and you can form or change your plans as you go. Full-fare tickets would be more expensive and I'd rather not lock in advance discount tickets for this many destinations.

Sorry, I don't have any advice for genealogy or Philippsthal.

Hi,

A good choice of cities and towns, except for Baden Baden, which I would drop. Lutherstadt Wittenberg is well worth your time. If you're staying there, you could easily take the ICE to Berlin for a day trip which is the first stop to get a glimpse or go one stop south to Leipzig. Kassel is all right, was the there twice, both times day trips. I suggest seeing the Schloss Wilhelmshöhe. while in Kassel. If you have time to do a day trip from Kassel, I would recommend Göttingen. Aside from Schloss Wilhelmshöhe I found Göttingen to be much more interesting than Kassel.

So far, you haven't received any responses with specifics on individual ticket options, probably because more information is needed .

What are your travel dates?
What airport(s) are you using? Do you have flight arrival/departure times? It could make good sense to fly into MUC or FRA and out of the other (since you'll be visiting both places.)
In what order will you visit these places? Are your booking rooms in each location, or are some of them "day trips" from another town?
How many days do you plan to stay in Frankfurt, Cologne, and Munich, the larger cities on your list?

I will say that 10 stops in 21 days, if that's what you have in mind, is pretty fast-paced for an independent trip. Lots of packing/unpacking/checking-in-and-out time is involved.

I tend to agree with Fred about dropping Baden-Baden. It takes you somewhat far afield from the route to Munich or Lutherstadt-Wittenberg in the north. (But then I'm not sure why you put Baden-Baden on your list. Maybe the high-end casino / spa stuff is a "must" for you?) I also agree w/ Fred about Kassel.

Back to the pass vs. ticket decision... The Rick Steves price-comparison map (at the link Laura gave you) provides a very sketchy and incomplete picture of the individual ticketing options. Rothenburg and Bamberg, for example, aren't shown. The Nuremberg - Würzburg route (in the same area) is shown - but the map price shown is $35 (€29, but really only $31 at current rates of exchange) which gives the impression that a day trip from Würzburg to Nuremberg (there and back, 2 hours total) for two would cost you $140. (At this point you're no doubt squealing, "OUCH. Better buy that rail pass!!) But the fact is that no one in the REAL world would pay that much - in fact, a real couple making this day trip would pay only $19.40 total for two. Why the difference? The RS map shows only the full-price one-way fare sold by DB (German Railways) for the fastest trains. It completely ignores regional train options, including normal walk-up fares, DB day passes, and day passes from local transit authorities. It also ignores advance-sale saver fares for fast trains. So looking at the RS map, you would have no idea that a one-way trip or a one-day round trip between Bamberg and Rothenburg could be done by train for €18 ($19.40) but in fact it CAN. You can travel at any time of day with this pass, a pass that is also good for all transportation inside cities like Bamberg (in case you need a bus to reach the train station.) This pass requires no advance booking - buy it from a ticket machine. And if your €18 day pass is bought for a Saturday, you can do another day trip in the same area on Sunday for free. Really.

"Tagesticket Plus day pass, VGN transit authority

(By way of comparison, the 10-day railpass costs a couple about $63/day, right?)

Anyway... the above is just one example showing why rail passes can sometimes be a bad deal and why we can't give you good ticketing advice without more information about your trip.

By the way, the rail pass isn't good all the way to Philippsthal (which requires a bus ride.)

If you can complete your travel by May 31, you can take advantage of the current German Rail Pass discount and get a 10 day flex twin pass for $502. At $50/day for 2, with no advance booking, that's not a bad deal. Some of your legs will be fairly expensive if buying on the spot, a couple are cheap, but the savings on longer hauls, especially being able to use fast ICE and IC trains more than makes up for it.

Philippsthal can be reached by bus from Bad Hersfeld, which is between Frankfurt and Kassel.

Besides omitting Baden-Baden, I would change the itinerary to Frankfurt - Bacharach - Köln (Cologne) - Munich, etc. Frankfurt to Köln is either very slow (if you use a regional train down the Rhein) or very expensive (if you buy a full fare ticket for the ICE from FRA to Köln), but you can buy a point-point ticket for FRA to Bacharach for only 11,60€ each, 23,20€ for two, and you can buy it just before leaving FRA, no matter when the flight arrives. Then, after so many days in Bacharach, buy a Rheinland-Pfalz-Ticket (daily pass) for 28€. That will take you to Bonn, just over the boder into Nordrhein-Westfalen. From Bonn to Köln would require two point-point VRS tickets for 7,70€ each. The entire trip from Bacharach to Köln would cost 43,40€ for both of you, and you could travel at will.

If you have confirmed reservations for each place, and I would strongly recommend that, then you would know the day you are traveling. All that it takes is committing to a specific train on that day, and you can save a lot. I saw some advance purchase Savings Fare tickets from Köln to Munich for 69€ for both, but we will address those tickets later.

Munich to Rothenburg odT can be done with a Bayern-Ticket for two for 28€. You might save a little time with an express ticket to Nürnberg, but you go so far out of your way that you won't save much, it at all (looks like 15 -25 min).

As mentioned by Russ, you can go from Rothenburg to Bamberg for 18€. That's using regional trains, but, unless you go out of your way through Nürnberg, that's all there is.

Bamberg to Wittenberg and Wittenberg to Phillipsthal are fairly long trips; I would opt for express trains, with Savings Fare tickets (or for a rail pass.

Finally, Phillipsthal to Kassel and Kassel back to Frankfurt are both fairly short trips in the state of Hessen, and a 33€ Hessen-Ticket each day would suffice. A Hessen-Ticket would even include the bus from Phillipsthal.

The six trips that I identified that would be just as well done without express trains range from 18€ to 43,40€, less than the daily cost of a railpass, 178,60€ total ($192.45). A three day rail pass would cost you $346 (or 321€). I was able to find a 69€ fare from Köln to Munich and 49€ fares from Bamberg to Wittenberg and Wittenberg to Phillipsthal. That's 167€, significantly less than 321€, so even if you can't find the lowest Savings Fares I found, you still should be able to save over a three day pass.

Thank you for the help, I'm feeling like now I should have thrown this out there sooner because, yes I was going by the RS map as far as ticket price. So here is some more info about the trip, I have already booked all our accommodations : / Some of the places were chosen because this is partly a genealogy trip, Wittenberg has already been dropped and here are how many night swe are staying in each town in the order we are visiting them:
Fly into Frankfurt and arrive at 12:50 pm and head to Cologne
Cologne 3
Bacharach 2
Baden Baden 2
Munich 6
Rothenburg 1
Bamberg 3
Philippsthal 1
Kassel 2
then head to Frankfurt to fly home.

Also do you guys just use the DB website to search tickets or is there another site that gives a better view of all the options? Thank you so much for your help!

Use www.bahn.com to research tickets prices. You can buy advance tickets 3 months ahead for long hauls. If it is a week day, travel after 9 am to get the Laender Ticket prices. Cologne-Bacarach, Munich-Rothenburg, Rothenburg-Bamberg, Phillipsthal-Kassel, and Kassel-Frankfurt can all be done with Laender tickets. That's 5 of 9 legs.
Edit: There are other helpful sites, www.vgn.de. This is for the Greater Nuremberg transit network. From them you can get 2 one-way tickets from Rothenburg to Bamberg for 21.60,
Getting from Frankfurt airport to Cologne, you may just want to buy a ticket when you arrive since you can't predict if there will be a delay arriving. Its 134 euro for 2 on the fast trains, or 92-98 euro on the slower trains that go down the scenic Rhine valley. You'll hit that on the way to Bacharach anyway.
Others can done with Sparpreis tickets, which are advance tickets bought on the internet with print-at-home tickets. These are like airplane tickets, miss the train and you have to buy full price tickets. But since your route and lodgings are set, this should not be a problem. The Laender tickets, like Munich-Rothenburg, Rothenburg-Bamberg, and Philippsthal-Kassel can be bought on the spot. I get about 400 euro with the expensive first day ticket. That's about $435 at current exchange.

It will be far simpler for you if you purchase a railpass. But if you are willing to purchase tickets instead and use slower train options in some places, you might save nearly $300 off your railpass cost of €628 (my low-end estimate for two is €313 or $332.) I cannot be sure about prices at this point because I do not have the information needed; travel dates and approximate departure or arrival times, which you did not provide, are crucial for accurate prices. Check DB on your own for routes, travel times, changes of train, and prices.

The following prices are for 2 adults. The lowest price "saver fares" noted below may or may not be available now for your dates since they've been on sale for some time.

The good news is that the daypass options ARE available on the spot on any day. They restrict travel to regional trains - so your trip may be a little, or sometimes a lot, longer. You must specify "only local transport" under "means of transport" if you want to find journeys for the day passes. Use them anytime on Sat or Sun, after 9:00 weekdays:

Rheinland-Pfalz ticket
Quer durchs Land ticket (Wherever QDL is suggested, if it's Sat or Sun, you can get the cheaper Happy Weekend ticket instead for travel at any hour.)
Bayern Ticket
Hessenticket
The VGN Tagesticket Plus has no hours restrictions.

FRA - Cologne (€52), Quer durchs Land day pass Buy at FRA from a ticket machine. Use regional trains. (OR pay full fare of around €100 or more.) (This is the slow, scenic Rhine River route Lee discussed. A cheaper saver fare on the fast train that bypasses the Rhine is possible - maybe for your date and hour - but a flight delay or cancellation means you risk forfeiture.)

Cologne - Bacharach (€29) Pre-purchased Saver Fare if available. (OR use regional trains only, €43 w/ the VRS ticket and the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket bought from ticket machines in Cologne, as Lee suggests.

Bacharach - Baden-Baden (€29) Saver Fare for fast trains if available. (OR use regional trains only. €52 w/ the QDL ticket from a ticket machine.)

Baden-Baden - Munich (€49) Saver Fare (OR €52 regional trains w/ QDL from a ticket machine.)

Munich - Rothenburg (€28) Use regional trains w/ Bayern Ticket from a ticket machine (or pre-purchased saver fare for €29)

Rothenburg - Bamberg (€18) Use regional trains w/ VGN Tagesticket Plus from a ticket machine.

Bamberg - Philippsthal (€52) Use regional trains w/ QDL Ticket from a ticket machine. (Plus bus fare at end.)

Philippsthal - Kassel (€27) (two normal adult fares @ €13.50 from the bus driver, local NVV fare. Switch from bus to train.)

Kassel - Frankfurt (€29) pre-purchased saver fare for fast trains if available (or for €33 use regional trains only w/ a Hessenticket day pass from a ticket machine.

Reservations or not, I suggest dropping Baden-Baden if it's not a genealogy stop and adding nights elsewhere closer to your route. There are so many nice places you might visit.

If you do include Baden-Baden, buy a Rheinland-Pfalz-Ticket for 28€ and take the RE to Mainz and another RE from Mainz to Karlsruhe Hbf (Karlsruhe is just outside the RL-P, but, Karlsruhe is a border station for the RL-P-Ticket). In Karlsruhe buy two local, KVV, tickets to Baden-Baden for 6,90€ each and take either the S-Bahn or an RE to Baden-Baden. Total price 41,80€.