In Germany - need some help with train issues (UPDATED)

That's unfortunate; permission to use different train/SEV bus equipment does not include different ROUTES, so your alternative plan doesn't work.

With your ticket there is no way to avoid using the SEV bus on that route to St. Goar under the normal rules. I don't know how you'd negotiate a change in the rules for your situation.

If you travel to Mainz on your existing ticket and then buy a Mainz > Assmannshausen ticket (€5.20) and are able to arrive there at 14:09, you could catch the KD cruise boat (14:45) to St. Goarshausen (16:00.) Use the ferry crossing there and catch your train to Boppard. Not convenient but you can knock out your cruise on arrival day.

Russ, thanks! That's a good idea and that's probably what I will do. Although I am wondering why you are saying that I can't use a different route. The language says that I can use my ticket on any other DB service to reach the destination I booked, and certainly even if I used another route, it's still a DB service. I actually just did a bit more digging and found this at https://www.bahn.com/en/booking-information/passenger-rights, which says,

Passenger rights: Even if you have a train-specific ticket, you are entitled to the following if the train is expected to arrive at your destination with a delay of at least 20 minutes: Continue your journey at the next possible opportunity using either the same route or a different one...

So it looks like I do have the opportunity to change the route. I'm not sure if I will - as I said, your idea about doing the cruise a day early makes sense. The only thing I'm worried about is that I will have luggage with me and it will require a lot more maneuvering. So something to think about.

But Koblenz is beyond your original destination. So you have an additional route from St. Goar, not an alternative one. You could buy a ticket St. Goar-Koblenz and one back to Boppard. The best deal is probably a VRM Tageskarte, which would cover boths legs.

I think that passage has it right, Mardee. I think I said otherwise based on my weak memory of an experience I once had, whereby I took an alternative route after a delay + a missed train, which the conductor pointed out to me firmly. What I didn't remember... long story short, I actually DID something like you were thinking... I had traveled too far BEYOND my destination with this particular rerouting and had officially screwed up. Some routings are in fact Kosher, other "more creative ones" like the one I came up with are illegitimate. But I think I just now conflated this situation with the standard train-flexibility rules on regional trains. Sorry you had to hunt down the actual rule on that.

Oh Russ, it was no problem. I realized after the fact that DB had enclosed a link to the passenger rights in the email they sent to me, and so I just clicked on it and saw it.

I really do appreciate your help (and yours, sla019). DB said that if I have time, i might want to check at the local station to confirm any changes but that I do not have to. So I'm going to try it and see what happens. It's definitely the easiest (and cheapest way) and if it backfires, I will use all my powers as a retired attorney to convince them that I'm right. We'll see how that goes, lol!

The current DB on-line schedule indicates that the SEV (replacement bus) is operating between Mainz and Ingelheim on May 8, departing Mainz Hbf at 13:31 and arriving at Ingelheim at 13:53, where you transfer to RB 26 departing 14:21, arriving St Goar at 15:00.

So the bus is between Mainz and Ingelheim, not Ingelheim and St Goar. In that case a single VRM ticket is 4.05 EUR for going from St Goar to Boppard. If you can buy the ticket online in advance, you don't have to get off the train, just stay on until it gets to Boppard.

First, as I read the Bahn website, it's from Mainz, not Ingelheim where you will be leaving by the SEV bus. It looks like the construction is between Mainz and Ingelheim. At Ingelheim you will get off the SEV bus and board an RB to St Goar. That same RB goes on from St Goar to Boppard 12 minutes later. A VRM ticket (Preisstufe 3) from St Goar on to Boppard will cost 4€. And the difference for a Bahn ticket from Mainz to Boppard vs Mainz to St Goar is only 2,60€.

What was the routing of the original ticket? Were you originally going from Ingelheim (or Mainz) to St Goar by a regional train (RE or RB), or were you going by an express train (IC?) to Koblenz and coming back to St Goar.

I don't think you are restricted to the SEV with a SparPreis ticket. According to the Vor- und Nach-Lauf provision in the AGB, with SparPreis tickets, only the express trains are specified. You can take any train of the Nahverkehr (regional trains) on the same route that day. The bus (SEV) is a substitute for a regional train, so you should be able to substitute back to a regional train, if you could find one. It's the "same route" provision that is the stickler.

most of the ticketing would stay the same but instead of going from
Mainz to Mannheim, I would take a train to Koblenz

That doesn't make sense. I think the original ticketing probably went from Mannheim to Mainz, not the other way around. Do you mean instead of going from Mannheim to Mainz, you would take a train from Mannheim to Koblenz? The train from Mannheim to Koblenz goes through Mainz; and it is an IC. I must assume that you were using regional trains from Mannheim to Mainz and from Mainz to St Goar.

What was the routing of the original ticket? Were you originally going from Ingelheim (or Mainz) to St Goar by a regional train (RE or RB), or were you going by an express train (IC?) to Koblenz and coming back to St Goar.

If you look at the departure at the same time the next day, Monday, May 9, you'll see it.

Okay, here was my original schedule:

Lv Gengenbach at 10:06
Arr. Offenburg 10:14
----Transfer
Leave Offenburg 10:29
Arr Mannheim 11:24
---Transfer
Lv Mannheim 11:52
Arr Mainz 12:43
---transfer
Lv Mainz 13:03
Arr. St. Goar 14:00

Lee, yes, you're right - I got it backwards. I was still a little jet lagged and trying to figure out the changed schedule was making my head hurt. :)

Mardee, I feel your pain. You should be prepared for this sort of scrum to repeat itself often. In our recent three weeks we had few planned routes/schedules work as we originally planned. We had the German Rail Pass so there was no stress about figuring out a different way to connect the dots. Even so, it was unprecedented chaos for a transport system that used to run like, well, clockwork. So many cancellations, changes in stops once we were already enroute, delays sitting on the track, last minute changes to the platform, etc.
We have never encountered this during our many trips there. My husband had the DB App open and checked it constantly. Some of the changes were made so quickly that the app could not keep up. Announcements were made only in German, which makes sense since tourism has been largely shut down for two years. My husband's German is strong enough to usually know what was being said, but sometimes it was like those cartoons about garbled language through a drive-in speaker.
Just be prepared for anything, and be confident that it will be possible to rearrange to get to your destination. Eventually.

It looks like the only difference between your original schedule and the one they want to put you on is that the RB from Mainz would have left at 13:03 and taken 57 minutes and the new SEV/RB connection leaves 28 minutes later and takes a half hour longer, mostly due to a half hour stopover in Ingelheim.

The connection you want to change to, which goes through Koblenz would only get you into St Goar (your originally ticketed destination 5 minutes sooner. Considering the change in train class, I doubt that they are going to put you on your desired trains to save 5 minutes.

However, there is a connection leaving Gengenbach at 9:27, which has the same connection in Koblenz (and a stop in Boppard on the way to St Goar) and would get you into St Goar at approximately the same time (13:55) as your original ticketed schedule. If you tell them that you really want to get to St Goar by the originally agreed to 14:00 and are willing to take an earlier train and make two more connections to do so, they might change your ticket to the 9:27 train out of Gengenbach.

However, the 9:27 connection has a very miss-able 4 minute, platform change connection in Baden-Baden. You might be better off to just stick with the connection they are proposing.

Or, if you did get them to change your connection to the 9:27, both the train from Gengenbach to Offenburg and the train to Baden-Baden are regional trains, so in accordance with the Vor- und Nach-Lauf provision, there would be nothing preventing you from taking earlier regional trains from Gengenbach at 8:26 to Offenburg and the next train to Baden-Baden and having 1H 4M to catch the ICE at Baden-Baden.

TravelingMom, so far that's the only change (knock on wood!). :) So we'll see what happens.

Lee, thank you for checking all this out. I will keep it all handy. It's still another 8 days out so who knows what will happen? I'm just hoping my German will come through when I'm trying to explain all these changes to the conductor. :)

I will say that DB seems to be a bit lax about enforcing some of the rules. For example, today I took the train from Berlin to Nürnberg. I had a reserved seat for this journey but chose not to sit in it since there would be someone sitting next to me, and there were plenty of empty seats (I know you don't typically need reserved seats but it was a holiday weekend, a Saturday morning and it only cost a few Euros). Anyway, my ticket was checked by 2 conductors and neither of them said a word about me being in a different seat. That could be an anomaly but I found it interesting. I thought I would have to explain the seat switch.

Anyway, my ticket was checked by 2 conductors and neither of them said
a word about me being in a different seat.

You aren't required to sit in your reserved seat. You can in fact sit in any unreserved seat - or in a seat reserved for someone else - if you wish. If you had done the latter, then the conductors MIGHT have advised you of your "error."

• If there is zero overlap between YOUR reserved journey and the journey to be made by the person who reserved the seat you took, nothing would be said. If that seat was reserved by another traveler for Nuremberg > Munich, there's nothing to discuss. You get off in Nuremberg before the seat-reserver boards the train.

• But if that seat was reserved for Bamberg > Munich, there'd be a Bamberg > Nuremberg segment overlap between your journey and the other ticket-holder's, and you'd have been advised to find another seat.

I did check the seat before I sat in it to make sure that there was no reservation, and there wasn’t. However, I wasn’t aware that you could sit in any seat even if you have a reserve seat. Good to know. I guess that makes sense.

Yes, as has been said, the conductors do not care whether you sit in your reserved seat. The reservation is entirely for your benefit, and you are free to use it or not.

One further clarification: If you have reserved a seat and want to sit in it, you must do so in the first 15 minutes of the departure from your original stop. After that, you "give away" the reservation and cannot claim it later. See here for rules (in German).

That's interesting, also. And good to know. Thanks, Azra.

In case anyone is interested, I had my train trip today (the above one that DB changed and added more time and more transfers). Instead of leaving at 10, I found one leaving at 8:26 am. That one only had 3 changes and 4 hours of travel time. Gengenbach-->Offenburg-->Mannheim-->Koblenz-->Boppard.

Gengenbach to Offenburg and Koblenz to Boppard were local trains, but the Offenburg and Mannheim trains were ICE, so I knew they'd probably be checking my ticket. I decided to write exactly what I wanted to tell them about why I was allowed to do this and so on, so I had it handy. In Offenburg, a conductor came by and I held out my phone for her to see my ticket. She looked at the ticket, then looked at me questioningly, so I rattled off my speech. She didn't say anything and I got nervous so I started to talk again, but she just said, "Okay, das ist gut" and went on her way.

I was asked again after Mannheim to produce it, did so, and was all ready to make my speech again, but he just said, "Danke" and walked on.

The irony of all this is that the trains were held up today on that line. There was an accident in or near the Bonn train station and everything was running a bit behind. So I wound up being about 30 minutes late getting into Boppard. However, it was still less time and earlier than it would have been if I would have taken DB's suggested itinerary change.

Mardee, I haven't written my trip report on Boppard yet, but I loved the area and Hotel Bellevue. Do check out the chairlift in Boppard- there's a cute little restaurant at the top with a great view of the area.
Safe travels!

The conductor in the train from Mannheim could verify that your ticket hat been checked previously, so his job was done. Glad to read that your trip went (almost) well.

Pat, I look forward to reading it. I am loving this area. I just got finished with a cruise from Bingen to Boppard and it was wonderful. I’m not too sure about the chairlift. I have a very bad fear of heights and I don’t know if I can do it. But I will definitely check it out.

sla, I was wondering about that so it’s nice to have it confirmed. Yes, I’m very glad to have that trip over with. I had a couple of other incidents with the trains so I will write a separate post about those.

Mardee, are you going to any castles? We were a little disappointed with Marksburg - there are no English tours yet and touring the castle with only a written print English summary was inadequate. The view is fantastic, but being in the off-season, there was no transport up, and we had to walk all the way up a very steep elevation. Once in the castle, there are still many uneven surfaces and stairs. And, we found the public transportation to be quite time-consuming.
Wish we had explored Rheinfels instead.
Glad you like the area!

"...but being in the off-season, there was no transport up, and we had to walk all the way up a very steep elevation."

Once visitor numbers improve post-covid, I would think Marksburg (in Braubach) is likely to return to English tours as before - daily at 1 and 4 pm.

Transport: Many years ago, there was a summertime shuttle up to the castle, but for a long while now there has been no difference from one season to the next, no regular public transport at all, even in summer either. It wasn't economically viable. Taxi service is available year-round, however.

This year for the very first time, there is comprehensive and convenient bus service to nearby Burg Eltz (Mosel River) on every day of the week. Previously, the bus service was weak and only on weekends.

For those wanting to visit a real medieval castle without a long walk, I would recommend Burg Eltz whenever they are open (closed in winter.) Marksburg is open year round and also great - and transport from the Rhine towns to Braubach is better than it is to Burg Eltz. Just plan to take a taxi up if you aren't up for the walk.

Rheinfels in St. Goar is a good experience too but nothing at all like Marksburg or Eltz. It's a set of ruins - with a good museum. I've always walked up - it's steep but short. There should be a public bus stop near the castle, I think.

Pat, probably not for a couple of reasons. I thought about Burg Eltz, but just couldn't commit to the transportation issues getting there. And I like looking at castles, but I don't know that I necessarily need to go into them. If I had more time here I might, but I did get my cruise in today and loved it!

But then I lost a whole afternoon (although, not really lost) because I met with 2 distant cousins of mine from German. We met online through familysearch.org, and discovered we share common ancestors (I think they are 7th cousins). They're identical twins a little younger than me. They all live in Ahr but drove to Boppard to meet with me and they brought their 97 year old mother with them.

We sat outside by the river at a cafe for about 5 hours and just talked about family and Germany and genealogy. It was a great way for me to practice my German and they were wonderful about prompting me with words I did not know.
So I need to plan something for tomorrow. I was thinking about taking the train to Cochem and maybe doing a cruise around there. If anyone has any suggestions (that do not involve me exerting myself too much - sorry, I've been walking and climbing steps so much that I need a break) I would love to hear them.

As Russ pointed out, you can now get to Burg Eltz on the bus from Hatzenport. Bus goes 2 times every hour at 14 and 49 past the hour. You can travel all day with a VRM Tageskarte for 21.20 EUR.

Mosel day cruises can be a little slow because you have locks along the way. You can go along the river by train as far as Traben-Trarbach with the VRM Tageskarte.

I must have missed Russ's post - thanks, Sam. I have a VRM guest pass from the hotel - I'm assuming that gets me there as well? I'll check out the bus as well. Burg Eltz does sound interesting.

So great that you achieved that genealogical meet-up.

"So I need to plan something for tomorrow. I was thinking about taking the train to Cochem and maybe doing a cruise around there."

Train to Cochem via Koblenz on the VRM Guest ticket. Round trip river cruise to Beilstein, 1 hr. each way with Kolb. Schedule in lower left corner of page that follows:

https://www.moselrundfahrten.de/files/moselfahrplan_cochem_2022.pdf

Russ (and Sam), I took your advice and went to Burg Eltz. I loved it! It was such a wonderful thing to do!

And it was very easy with the 365 bus. I just took the train from Boppard to Hatzendorf (with a transfer in Kolenz), then got the 365 bus at the Hatzendorf Bahnhof, and it took me straight to the castle parking lot. From there you can walk up the castle (about 10 minutes) or take the shuttle for €2.

Easy peasy - and just as easy leaving. It was about 1 1/2 hours each way give or take a few minutes, but well worth it. And the train ride (and bus ride) were very scenic (the bus especially). I used my VRM guest pass for everything (except the shuttle). I am so glad I went!

Glad you had a successful visit, Mardee.

One point about the difficulty of reaching castles: That was the point back then - a formidable stronghold that invading marauders from afar would find intimidating. Both Marksburg and Eltz survived intact. In more recent times, getting train tracks to such places wasn't really useful or feasible. Efforts to make the trip easier for tourists over recent decades at Marksburg and Rheinfels have included tourist-shuttle choo-choos from the nearest rail station:

Rheinfels Castle Express

Marksburg Express

AFAIK both of these attempts were short-lived and service was spotty or dropped altogether outside the really busy periods.

Burg Eltz is so far from the nearest rail station that to my knowledge, no such tourist-convenience had ever been tried until fairly recently. The only tourist shuttle bus served only the drivers who arrived at Eltz parking lot.

A few years back, Burg Eltz tourists who lacked the ability or time to walk from Moselkern station were gifted the Burgenbus (Castle Bus) #330 but it only ran on weekends and still took a major part of the day to get there and back.

The new bus 365 schedule for this year is no longer the Castle Bus but the Regio-bus - but it is a VAST improvement for those tourists looking for wheels to Burg Eltz. It came about not necessarily just for tourists but for locals as well who frequent the other stops it serves.