Help with short layovers in Munich and Frankfurt

I'm not sure why a new thread was started when you could have posted this clarification in the original thread. This one seemed to be harder for me to read, particularly with the different spellings of Lufthansa, Frankfurt and Munich.

Frankfurt is a huge airport and 1:30 between flights will mean a fair bit of running around particularly if there's a delay, even within the same terminal. Because the U.K. is no longer part of the Schengen zone, I do not know if you would have to go through passport control before catching the flight to Boston - someone else could answer this question, I'm sure.

Yes, calm down.
In Munich that is more than enough time. At least it would be for me. Even running a bit late you should have adequate time there.
Frankfurt also is enough time as long as you are good at following directions. People can get mixed up in that airport. That said, it is well marked so once you arrive, don't dilly dally. Proceed as you must and go to your gate right away.
You don't mention checked luggage. I carry mine with me whenever I am "outbound" so that I can control where my bag is. I travel light and have a smallish bag that meets the size and weight constraints...do that.
Chillllll........have a beer.

I have transferred flights in Frankfurt and was impressed by how quickly I moved from gate to gate for my connecting flight. I haven't transferred in Munich, but your next flight is within Europe, so I would be less concerned about the short transfer time.

Generally, I fly into Europe to Amsterdam or CDG and insist on 1 1/2 hours. You should be OK, but I haven't flown Lufthansa in decades.

You should be fine, so yes just take a deep breath! 1.5-ish layovers are very usual in both those German airports & since you're on one ticket for each, it should work. There's no need or requirement to tell anyone about it, unless you miss your connecting flight, then go find the appropriate carrier's ticketing counter.

MUC should be plenty of time but I would still head straight to immigration, (just follow the crowds, read the signage but don't meander until after immigration) as it's your first entry into the Schengen area. I just came through MUC into Europe a few weeks ago, I think walking to immigration and waiting took less than 10 minutes.

Leaving LHR, transiting in FRA heading to the USA, you shouldn't have to go through immigration in FRA, however there's a pre-boarding process at the departure gate when you fly to the USA, I would add 15 minutes to your time just to wait in that line. It's a security check to ask if you packed your own bags, had electronics repaired, and basically give you a look over.

Have you checked LH's hand carry limits? I seem to recall it's very low, 7KG. I can't imagine only doing carry-on with that kind of limit, but some on the Forum do manage it. In general, I check a bag because I don't want to deal with hauling stuff through airports, but that's just me.

I do have checked bags as my bag will be too heavy to take on with me. As you state the hand carry limit is very low. Only 18lbs ( about 8kg) if my converter is correct.

I started a new thread to try and remove any misunderstanding. I thought it deleted the old thread and if it didn't I apologize. If this thread seems more complicated, I apologize.

I think this one is much more consistent as the starting point is always first, then the landing airport, then the place and finally the connecting flight with time.

Most seem to think there will be no problems.

Thank You,

in the same terminal

Be aware that in both Munich and Frankfurt, the terminals that Lufthansa uses (T1 in FRA, T2 in MUC) have 2 buildings each. Same terminals, two different buildings.

In Munich, the older (almost 20 years) terminal (T2, main) might not have been built to take an A380. It looks like there is at least one gate in the T2 Satellite that takes 380s. Gates at the T2 Satellite are K for Schengen flights, L for out-side of Schengen flights; at the main T2 building it's G for Schengen flights and H for out-side Schengen flights.

It looks like an A380 uses one of the L gates in the Satellite of T2. Two of the three Munich to Budapest Lufthansa flights yesterday used G gates in the main T2 building. So, it is likely that you will have to change buildings. There are underground shuttle trains between the buildings, between Schengen and outside-Schengen gates. They run every 4 minutes and take 1 minute. When you arrive, presumably at an L gate, you will have to go through immigration (passport check) and after that follow signs to the G gates. That will take you down to the basement to the shuttle trains, go to the main building (G gates), and go up to the level with your gate.

The problem with trans-Atlantic flights is you never know what time you will get to Germany. I've flow trans-Atlantic 11 times since 2000, and I've been an hour late 3 times. However, there are probably a lot of flights to Budapest, and if you miss your scheduled flight, I would expect Lufthansa to get you on a later flight that day. If not, there are a lot of rail connections to Budapest from the airport in about 8 hours.

I have never had to rebook a flight for any reason.
There are two additional Lufthansa flights that day. There are 15:30 and 22:20 flights later that day. How easy is it to get a change based on missing a flight due to a late flight or a delay at the border if I had to for some reason?
I hope it doesn't come to this, but always be prepared.

I need to thank this group. This forum is by far the best. Unlike other forms, people are friendly and do not blame or belittle a lack of knowledge.

Thank you,
Mark

How easy is it to get a change based on missing a flight due to a late flight or a delay at the border if I had to for some reason? I hope it doesn't come to this, but always be prepared.

I fly 3x a year from SFO to ARN, usually transiting in FRA or MUC, and whenever I would have missed my connection on LH, I had already been re-booked by Lufthansa before landing. Sometimes if I know ahead of departure, I call the airline in the US to discuss flight change and seating, depends. Don't worry about it, you will be re-booked! Download the LH app & just look it up. Bon Voyage. PS, Glad you checked your bag.

As for London to Frankfurt to the US (sorry, I had other things to do, I wanted to get back sooner). The distance from London to Frankfurt is not that far, you shouldn't get delayed on the way, but there is always the chance that your flight would be delayed leaving London, in which case, there is not much way the pilot can make up time, and there might not be another flight to the US that day. If possible, I would take an earlier flight and give myself more time for the connection in Frankfurt.

In Frankfurt, Terminal 1 has two "concourses", A/Z and B. They are in two separate buildings (actually wings off off the main building where you check in and retrieve luggage. Concourse A/Z is the original A concourse. It is now used only for in-Schengen flights. They built a new floor (Z) above the original one for outside-of-Schengen flights. If you are lucky, both your flights will use gates in the Z concourse. It's all on one floor of the buildings.

However, if your flights are between the two buildings, you will have to take the SkyLine shuttle between the buildings. Look for signs. They might only say to B or Z.

It turns out I was lucky on the flight to the USA from Frankfurt, as there are three more flights that day (including two codeshare and one Lufthansa). The last flight will get me in too late to get any bus home. I might be better off staying overnight, but the earlier alternate flights get me in early enough to catch the bus home.
Enough negative thinking. I will make it with no problems.

Thanks for the advice.

I wanted to add an update. I was able to move my seat on the first flight (A380) much closer to where we will be exiting the plane. I know I probably would have been fine, but every little bit helps. This way if it all falls according to plan I will have more time for that snack.

One question. I haven't flow into Germany before. Years ago flying international you had to fill out cards with all your information on it. That hasn't happened the last two times I flew to the UK. Is this a thing flying into Germany now or is it all electronic? I know Lufthansa took more personal information than I can remember being done by Delta going into the UK.

Thanks,
Mark

Oh, I was just thinking about those little cards on my flight the other day! Lol. No, everything is electronic these days.

We get these kinds or questions a lot.

My answer: These are not short connections. A short connection at Munich would be 30 minutes. These connection times are rather on the long side. Is the state of air travel so dire in the US that it has become hard to believe for people your side of the Atlantic that efficiency in air transport is still possible?

I have had connections in FRA where when I landed (coming from Edinburgh) my next flight had already a started boarding. My incoming flight stopped at a remote stand, and we were bussed to the wrong gate, so had to go through security again, and then through passport control. And I still made my next flight.

In your case: Inbound you will have to go through passport control in Munich, but not security. So the time given is fine. Even 30 minutes (the MCT for MUC) would still have worked. You will have time to enjoy a good beer waiting for your next flight.

Outbound: If the London flight docks at Z you will just walk from one gate to the next. No security, no passport control. Again relax, and have a drink. If you are bussed from a remote stand you may have to go through security, but there is a fast track line there. With 1h30 however I would not worry. Just follow the signs...

So yes, calm down. Efficient transfers are normal in Europe. The field is very competitive, and LH is competing with direct flights and thus does not want to waste more of your time with keeping you hanging around in airports.

I did fail to mention that one of the reasons I moved my seat was my last seat was right next to the bathroom. A fellow traveler suggested that while I could change my seat I should as she said that people often hang out around that area waiting their turn while you are trying to sleep.

I would never get out of my seat until I am told it is OK to do so. Always listen to the crew.

I did have a layover in Amsterdam in 2018 that I almost missed my connecting flight, even though my first flight was on-time. I had a one hour layover with Delta heading from Munich to Amsterdam and then changing planes for Boston. I went right from the first gate to the second. I did have to go through security and a second passport check on that journey.
I imagine Amsterdam is a much bigger airport than Munich.

I figure worst case on the Munich transfer there is another flight in about 3 hours. No big deal. As for Frankfurt that seems even simpler as there should be no passport check or security.

All calm here.

If the London flight docks at Z you will just walk from one gate to
the next.

I was looking at Lufthansa departure for Boston on the FRA website. At least right now, there are two LHA flights per day to Boston at 13:30 and 17:40.

There are also almost hourly flights from LHR to FRA. There is not an arrival at 12:00 (13:30 - 1½ hrs), but there are arrivals today and tomorrow scheduled for 16:05 ** so I assume that is your flight. It arrives those days at the B concourse?**. To get from the building with B gates to the building with A and Z gates, you will have to use either the tunnel between A and B or the SkyLine (see "Terminal/Pier change") people mover between the roofs of A and Z.

I believe (someone please correct me if I am wrong) that the tunnel is only for the in-Schengen area. So, you would have to go through Immigration in the B Concourse, then go through the tunnel to the A/Z building where you would go through security to get into the A Concourse then through Emigration to get to Z.

However, the SkyLine station at B has both in- and out-of-Schengen boarding areas, so you must be able get to the station from the out-of-Schengen area of B (look for signs to the SkyLine), take the train to the out-of-Schengen Z concourse, and not have to go through passport control (that's the whole point of the out-of-Schengen cars on the SkyLine). I'm not sure you will not have to go through security to get into the Z Concourse.

Yes I depart FRA at 13:30 and arrive at 16:00.
My incoming flight departs LHR at 09:30 and arrives at FRA at 12:05.

Ops. My mistake. I was looking at a later arrival (still thinking about the 17:30 flight to Boston). It is a 12:05 arrival at FRA.

That flight was cancelled for today, Friday, May 17. For Saturday and Sunday, the 18th and 19th, it is scheduled to arrive at a B gate.

According to the website, yesterday (Thursday, the 16th) the flight arrived at a B gate and 30 minutes late.

The website says that on Wednesday the flight arrived at gate A2. That's an in-Schengen gate, but London is not in Schengen. My only explanation is that they are conducting Schengen immigration while boarding in London and flying as an in-Schengen flight. (I'm pretty sure they do that for the Eurostar, go through immigration in London before going to Paris.)

If that is true, then you would have to go through emigration in the A/Z building. You would not have to change building using the tunnel or the SkyLine, and it's a pretty short walk down the hall in A to get to emigration to go upstairs to a Z gate.

Having to go through Schengen immigration in London would be problematic for anyone with a passport from a country that doesn't have automatic Schengen visas. On Thursday, the flight arrived at Gate B2. Is B2 also an in-Schengen gate? Is flight 901 restricted only to people with Schengen visas?

Can anyone help with this?

One point that I need to pay attention to is the UK strikes that will be happening on my departure date.
The last time they had a strike (early May) Lufthansa canceled the flight to Frankfurt each day.
The strike is suppose to be over the next day, which if I had to wait a day it wouldn't kill me. Another day in London, Why not.
Although they state in the online articles that this will only effect going into the country. So why cancel flights leaving? I obviously don't have the whole picture.
The other thing that was brought up is that there is a 17:40 flight from Frankfurt to Boston that would get me home with time to spare, but later than I would like. Or maybe they can rebook me direct to Boston from London. That would be nice.

I guess I just have to learn to go with the flow.

Mark

Although they state in the online articles that this will only effect
going into the country. So why cancel flights leaving?

Maybe because "flights leaving" are using aircraft from flights that previous went into the country. No flights in ergo no aircraft for flights leaving.

Guess I just have to learn to go with the flow.

Yes, it's time to relax, you've already done more than enough, more thinking about it won't help. Take some meditation downloads / fun podcasts / games along perhaps. Download the various airlines apps onto your phone so you can look at what changes may have been made automatically to your flights. ENJOY the trip and forget about it, the airlines will sort it out if there are changes!!

Consider having a variety of activities for the airport & flight, some forum members came up with good answers to my question here - https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/transportation/what-else-to-do-on-long-airplane-flights

I have hours and hours of movies and TV shows downloaded to my tablet, along with a bunch of solitaire games.
I usually never end up watching more than 5 minutes as I have no attention span when the 5 year old in me is on an adventure. It's the same reason I can't sleep on a plane.
But I won't be lacking for options. I don't drink so no luck getting me to pass out that way.
All I see in my head is that they cancel the Frankfurt flight and the only seat left on the next flight to Boston is FIRST CLASS. Oh well. I guess I will just have to sit in first class for the cost of economy. Wouldn't that be nice!

So now that my trip is over I will give a report as to what happened.

Leg 1 Boston to Munich A380. Plane landed on time and the transit to the next gate was painless. I had to go through Passport control, but not security and it took all of two minutes. The border guard looked like he didn't care, asked my two questions and stamped my passport.

Leg 2 Munich to Budapest A320 Got to the gate with plenty of time to spare. The loading of the plane was a cattle call with everyone scanning their tickets themselves and almost no intervention from the gate staff. I had seen nothing like this before.
While I made my flight no problem my checked bag did not. I was told I could have the bag delivered, but it could take 5 days and I was town for 4. I decided to return to the airport that evening and pick it up, which I did.

Leg 3 A320 Vienna to London Heathrow There was an issue with the British Airways app and the website. It stated I didn't have any checked bag credits, but I did. I went to the airport early to resolve this, but nobody showed up until 2 hours before the flight. It turned out to be nothing as the women at the counter said they were having computer issues. I was also concerned because the border control people were suppose to be on strike at Heathrow, but if they were it didn't matter as I had a US passport and used the electronic gate and was in the country in 30 seconds.

Leg 4 A320 London to Frankfurt my flight was 10 minutes late getting into Frankfurt and we stopped before the terminal. They brought stairs and a bus to bring us to the terminal. As it was my turn the bus driver said no more, but I had been talking to the Flight attendant and she asked if they could do one more for a short transfer. I was allowed on. I walked what felt like miles to my gate, which was well marked and I never got lost. I went through passport control and right to my gate. No USA TSA there.

Leg 5 A340 Frankfurt to Boston Flight happened to be slightly delayed because they had to change the plane due to some issue. The Lufthansa app said my bags were on board my flight and off we went or so we thought as a passenger didn't show up and they had to remove his bags. We finally left and the plane was moving. With a late departure we ended up 30 minutes early in Boston.

Boston to Home. BUS What a mess. There was construction causing my bus to be 1/2 late then there was a 5 car accident stopping traffic for at least another 1/2 hour. What should have been a 1 hour ride was closer to 3 hours, but I got home safe and sound and had a great trip.