Help! Itinerary Options - Heidelberg, Munich, Frankfurt

For option 1, can you fly back out of Munich? Would give you an extra day which
is pretty meaningful on a 6-7 day trip.

If not, I say go with some version of option 2. Stay reasonably within the domain
of Frankfurt. I think your day trips are too sequential. Move your day 5 into the
middle. You'll be happy to have a day when you don't have to get up early to start
a day trip.

While not everyone thinks this, if the flight is a bit later in the day, you could leave from
Heidelberg on morning of 12/7 and go straight to the airport. The train is less than an hour,
so a 7am train works for a 10:30 or 11am + flight.

Happy to help but I need a few more details for suggestions.

How many of you are there?

Are you planning to do outings by train or by car? Or open to both?

"Visiting family in Ramstein..."

It's not clear to me what day that's going to happen. How does that fit into your schedule??

What's drawing you to Neckarsteinach?

Heidelberg is OK, but I don't like it very much as a base town for 7-8 days in your #2 option. If traveling by train, the station you would depart from (Heidelberg Hbf) for the bulk or your outings is not in the old town zone, where most choose to stay, so every day you will have two additional built-in transit legs on top of your normal journeys. And although it looks impressive in all the photos of Heidelberg, the "castle" there isn't much and there are better options for touring, certainly.

Besides your stated interests... there are the Mercedes and Porsche auto museums, Speyer's Technik Museum... and of course history, art, etc museums that might interest you. Does anything else tug at your collective sleeves? There is quite a lot you can see on the western side of Germany - so generally I don't see a need for heading east to Munich and Salzburg in your short time.

@Russ

There will be 5 of us total. We're primarily planning our outings by train, but open to car travel if it's encouraged. Sorry I should remove the part about Ramstein- we're not planning on spending time there but that is the reason for our travel as my brother will be meeting us at Heidelberg from Ramstein. Neckarsteinach came up a few times on my research and looked like a quick and easy town to visit from Heidelberg but it is not at all mandatory, just one of the options I've found so far. I would say Strasbourg is a must on the list unless you would recommend otherwise.

You're correct we were wanting to stay in old town so that is good to know. Would you recommend Option 1 then or would you recommend option 2 but stay in a different base town?

We are open to museums, site seeing, good food, shops, etc. I personally have a love for architecture so I'm interested in cathedrals, castles, anything medieval, and would love love love to see traditional half timbered towns. We like big cities but also would like to check out some smaller towns too.

With an interest in architecture, you might want to see the Waldspirale, a residential building complex by Hundertwasser in Darmstat, very near Heidelberg

For ease of transport... Consider using Heidelberg as one base (with limited outings) and Stuttgart as a second base. Stuttgart has DIRECT train service to some of the destinations that would be tougher to reach from Heidelberg and include more changes of train. Not that changing trains is really difficult - but the trains don't run on time in Germany like they used to and a missed connection can mean a long wait for the next train at a time of year when daylight hours are short.

Below are my suggestions for time organization and details for getting in some outings since you want to keep things active.

11/29: FRA > Stuttgart: Direct ICE train (75 minutes)

Day trips from Stuttgart to old-world towns:
- Direct regional train to Esslingen (15 min.) - Tübingen (45-55 min.)
- Direct ICE train to Strasbourg and back (80-90 minutes each way)

Ludwigsburg Palace is also a simple and quick outing from Stuttgart if that interests you.

12/2 or 3: Stuttgart > Heidelberg: Direct ICE train (45 - 50 minutes) to Heidelberg Hbf station (then transfer to the Altstadt station if you stay there.)

Day trip from Heidelberg-Altstadt station:

• Regional trains to Bad Wimpfen (60 min., 1 change of train...handsome old-world town, Christmas market Dec 5-7.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9wnpOnWLQc&t=32s

The ride includes a small bit of the Neckar River Valley route. The change of train takes place at the Sinsheim/Museum station. This transport museum is not only a dry place on a rainy day - it has an incredible collection and is quite popular (hence the recently-developed train stop) and is just a few steps from the train station. Food service is onsite as well.

• Regional trains to Ladenburg (30-40 minutes) and Heppenheim (60 minutes), small, half-timbered wine towns on the same train line on the "Bergstrasse" route. 1 change of train at Heidelberg Hbf for this outing.

12/5: Heidelberg-Altstadt > Mainz Hbf: for two nights. Mainz is only 25 minutes from FRA by direct train for your flight on 12/7. It has some wonderful churches (Dom, Stephanskirche, Augustinerkirche) and a vibrant Christmas Market. I'd use the regional trains from Heidelberg-Altstadt (2 hrs., 1 change of train in Mannheim.)

See Mainz on 12/5; on 12/6, do an outing by regional train north along the Rhine River that includes old-world towns Bacharach / Boppard / Koblenz and back to Mainz will take you past dozens of cliffside medieval castles. If you want to tour one, go to MARKSBURG in Braubach (small, beautiful town, about 10 minutes from Koblenz station.) It's an entirely intact medieval castle with a 1-hr tour, open 11-5.

https://www.marksburg.de/en/circuit/#/
https://www.stadtbild-deutschland.org/forum/index.php?thread/7322-braubach-am-rhein-und-marksburg-galerie/

Direct trains to FRA leave Mainz every 20-30 minutes starting as early as 4 am.

I would seriously recommend you base in Mannheim. Because almost any trip you take via train from Heidelberg is going to go through Mannheim. And since you're using the trains, let me give you some idea as to how much time you will spend. Frankfurt to Heidelberg 1.5 hours. Heidelberg to Cologne 2-3 hours. Stuttgart one hour. Strasbourg 2+ hours. That's one way, so double that. you're looking at 16+ hours on the train in a week, or two days touring equivalent. You may want to reconsider some of that.

Ramstein/Kaiserslautern isn't known for good Christmas markets, but there are some a lot closer than what you're planning. Heidelberg and Strasbourg are the best. I'd make those the priority. Trier, Mainz, and Frankfurt are at least as good as Cologne, without having to spend hours on the train. Stuttgart isn't bad, but the car museums are, to me, the best way to spend a day there.

Neckersteinach is a very pretty town, and on a clear day you can see three good castles from the main square. I have not done the Christmas market there, but it's an interesting choice, as it's not known for tourists. The train station is a good hike down to the town.

A smaller, but very nice, market will be held in Sankt Wendel during your visit. It's not open long, but it's a good one, and very local. https://www.sankt-wendel.de/kreisstadt-sankt-wendel/tourismus/maerkte/weihnachtsmarkt/. It's over towards Ramstein.

If you don't go to Strasbourg consider Metz, which is closer. You really should do (at least) one French market, because they are quite different.

Remember, the markets are best after 4pm, when it starts getting dark. And never take the last train; if it's late and you miss a connection you can be stranded.

Mannheim is a busy train hub and would work logistically for your original list of destinations. I considered suggesting it momentarily for this reason but opted for Stuttgart as a place offering more than just a place to lay your heads. I find the environment around the Mannheim station dreary at best.

Something we do not know about is your budget. 5 people traveling around and doing outings by ICE train can turn out tragically for budget travelers without careful plannning (pre-scheduled trips, pre-purchased tickets.) A ticket from Stuttgart or Mannheim to Cologne, for example, can cost more than €600 at the ticket counter - and that's one-way. Using regional trains only means that a group of 5 can take advantage of day pass options that cover up to 5 people. Day passes that cover the whole country might cost €90 for the group, and for smaller travel areas, as little as €50. And the Deutschland-ticket, which covers one person for a whole month throughout the country, is priced at €58. 5 of those would cover all December travel for under €300 total. All these options allow superior flexibility - go where you want when you want, basically. I would probably change the itinerary here and there if you prefer this type of travel.

Thank you @Russ and @KGC! Your recommendations are so helpful I had a feeling we'd be spreading ourselves to far out but also don't want to miss anything, we'll just have to plan another trip haha.

@Russ I love the idea of the Deutschland-ticket, would this change your recommended itinerary?

You land in Frankfurt, so stay here for a day or two. It is easier and faster to get to Cologne from here, then from Heidelberg. As already mentioned, there are some nice markets near Frankfurt, like Mainz and Wiesbaden and Frankfurt is nice too. You could day trip to Heidelberg from here, then move to Stuttgart or Strasbourg.
Büdingen, Limburg, Marburg, and Seligenstatdt are lovely, medieval towns that have markets you could visit.
Here are some other markets to consider.
Seligenstadt 27.11-14.12
Limburg Christmas Market 28.11-22.12
Marburg Advents Market 28.11-23.12
Idstein Advents Market 5-7.12
Büdingen Christmas Market 3-7.12

@Russ I love the idea of the Deutschland-ticket, would this change your recommended itinerary?

Probably. I will take a look at the regional-train travel times and connections today to see how convenient they would be for those base towns and get back to you with suggestions.

Ok... Here's what looks reasonable to me. I've changed the order of things a bit. (You do not want to step off a plane and ride regional trains all the way to Stuttgart...)

Nov. 29 and 30 would be excluded from the D-Ticket since it is a calendar-month pass. See ticket suggestions below for those days. No pre-purchase is necessary - just buy them on the day of travel.

1/29: FRA > MAINZ by direct regional train for 2 nights... use a "RMV group day ticket" to get all 5 of you to Mainz for €22. Mainz is almost as close to FRA airport as Frankfurt is. Travel to either the Mainz Hbf station (the main station) in 25 minutes or to the Mainz Römisches Theater station in 20 minutes. I like the Römisches Theater station because it's closer to the nicest part of Mainz where the Dom (cathedral), Market Square, the old-town zone, the riverfront walk, and the Stadtpark (city park) is. However, there are more hotels near the main stationn. There's an IBIS hotel right near the RT station, and the Hof Ehrenfels hotel is right in the old-town section. A few other hotels are near there as well.

1/30: Day outing down the Rhine by train ... A Rheinland-Pfalz Ticket for 5 persons (day pass) (€65) will cover your round trip to the river towns and back to Mainz. Hop on and off at will anywhere you wish. There is a DIRECT regional train from Mainz MRT at 9:45 (or Mainz Hbf at 9:51) to Koblenz (takes one hour) or to any other towns you wish to stop in on the way (Bacharach and Boppard make sense to me.) The same day pass gets you from Koblenz to Braubach (for Marksburg Castle) on the east bank railway, which you can use south to Rüdesheim, Wiesbaden, and for the final return leg to Mainz, all on the same ticket.

Rhine Valley transport map north of Mainz: http://www.loreley-info.com/eng/rhein-rhine/walking-hiking.php

Other trains in the morning will get you north at different times as well (but most leaving from the MRT station require a change of train at Mainz Hbf.

12/1: Mainz > Heidelberg Hbf or Heidelberg-Altstadt, about 1.75-2 hours by regional train (D-Ticket) w/ 1 transfer either in Mannheim or in Darmstadt, depending on what time you depart. I like the 8:52 - 10:39 journey where you change in Darmstadt Hbf (which I do NOT know well - but maybe stopping there on the way to H'berg, as our colleague Bigtyke has suggested, would be enjoyable. Use the Darmstadt Hbf station lockers for your bags while you sightsee. 12/2&3: possible day trips with the D-Ticket.

12/4: Heidelberg > Stuttgart Hbf, about 1.75 - 2 hours by regional train (D-Ticket) with one change of train 12/4,5,6: possible day trips with the D-Ticket.

12/6, afternoon: Pick up your bags from the front desk at your Stuttgart hotel and catch the regional train (D-Ticket) back to either FRA airport or to MAINZ. This is a longer journey by regional train - the 14:59 departure stops in Karlsruhe (change there) then in Mainz Hbf (17:47, change there for FRA) with final arrival at FRA at 18:28. MY PREFERENCE would definitely be to end the trip in Mainz for a nice dinner and final night... then in the morning head to FRA on one of the many direct trains to the terminal. (There are later departures for Stuttgart > Mainz > (FRA) as well, but finishing up the travel by 18:00 would be my choice.)

Alternatively, you can spring for faster ICE train tickets from Stuttgart to Mainz or to FRA airport. How much faster depends on when you depart Stuttgart. However, most of the saver fares for 12/6 are currently running over €100 each with a couple at €75 each or so, which is a lot compared with "free." Direct trains from Stuttgart to FRA the next morning are in the same price range right now. Price aside, I would still want to be closer to FRA than Stuttgart (or Heidelberg) on the morning of my flight home, just in case some railway problem came up and I had to take a taxi (which could be done from Mainz.)