Help finalizing 4 nights on the middle Rhine

I'm sure Russ will jump in here with his expertise, but here are my first thoughts-

Bacharach is a tiny, sleepy little town with limited transportation options. I know Rick likes the town. However, you're located over the train tracks, and no river views, unless you do a town wall walk, which is worth it. However, I really would encourage you to stay in Boppard, which is a charming river town, right on the Rhine, with easy transportation connections. The KD boat dock is right in front, easy to access. The chairlift is fun, and you can have a glass of wine at the top, enjoying a great view.

I liked Berg Elz much more than Marksburg, just my opinion.

I know it's late to be changing lodging, but just a suggestion.

Have a great trip!

I suggest you ask for help from your hotel (4 nights there make you a valuable customer, they should be helpful) or the TI office with your bike reservation.

Bacharach TI email: [email protected]

There are better base towns on the Rhine than Bacharach, but your activity goals are modest - and they can be done reasonably well from Bacharach without

The "ferry" which K-D operates is referred to as a "ship" (Schiff) so as not to confuse it with the real "ferry" (Fähre) boats which do not go up and down the Rhine but only back and forth between river banks. The K-D cruise combines well with a MARKSBURG castle visit... Plan for one day:

• train to Bingen Rhein Stadt station, walk to K-D dock
• Cruise ship to St Goarshausen (1.5 hrs.) From there, Marksburg is not difficult to reach...
• train to Braubach (a 20-minute ride) + walk to Castle (25-min. uphill walk, good exercise, or taxi.)

Castle tours in English are scheduled for 1 pm and 4 pm. After the tour... Return to Bacharach by train (1 change in Koblenz.) You might want to find dinner in Braubach before that - such an attractive old-town zone:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4143/4751924826_98980aa49f_o.jpg

I would not want to be fussing with a bike on the cruise ship. A 20% discount is possible - just show your Bacharach > Bingen train ticket at the K-D kiosk when you buy your ticket.

I don't consider a visit to Rheinstein particularly important. Not much there to see. You'll see the exterior on your cruise.

Biking: Keep 1 day free for that. If you bike for only half a day, maybe visit Boppard by train. The chairlift there and Gedeonseck are super:

https://fewoboppard.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Sessellift.jpg
https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-o/14/37/be/f9/dsc-0008-largejpg.jpg

It's not an official Biergarten, but Gedeonseck is a wonderful spot with a canopy of trees and outdoor tables and a grand view of the Rhine that makes whatever Bier you order taste even better:

https://s3-media1.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/T9oxNMwLvt_-r5nCsce-jg/o.jpg

That's 2 days already...

3rd day: take the train to St Goar/Oberwesel, tour Rheinfels and both towns.

The best beer garden I know of, within an hours drive from where you're staying, is Kloster Machern, which is about halfway between Traben-Trarbach and Bernkstle-Kues. If you decide to visit this place, take the road towards Morbach. Then detour just a little and you can visit one of the more attractive castle ruins, Burgruine Baldenau, which also has a nice hiking path around the local area. And very few people (other than locals) even know about it.

Marksburg is better than Burg Eltz. But, having seen both, I always prefer just taking a picnic lunch and sitting at Rhinefels. Yes, it's a ruin, but on a clear day it's a fantastic view.

I'd focus on the boat ride over the bike ride, and either of those over Marksburg.

Thank you for the tips!! Russ, I was honestly looking at the KD boat/Marksburg combo as a possible option to optimize Marksburg into the schedule so your bringing that up is great confirmation and something we may focus on for day 1. The wife and I enjoy renting bikes but every time I look at the KD boat schedules from Bingen to St. Goar plus the 9am to 6pm bike rental I'm having a hard time not rushing to return bikes. So it does sound like the more relaxing option would indeed be to rent them on a separate day. It seemed the Bacharach to Bingen bike route was a scenic one so I thought combining with the boat would be best. BUT I do wonder if we could mix bike/train and just visit Oberwesel & St. Goar/Rheinfels in tandem like Russ also suggested. If we get an early start, is it too much to tour Rheinfels, stroll Oberwesel and do Boppard/Gedeonspeck maybe in the evening? If I make some adjustments, as it stands I'd have...

• Check in Bacharach mid PM (have 3-4 hours open here before/after)...my thought is tour Rheinfels the last 1-2 hrs prior to close?
• Day 1 --AM Train to Bingen, 9:15 KD to St. Goarshausen, 1pm Marksburg, train back
• Day 2 --Luxembourg road trip
• Day 3 --Some combo of Rheinfels, Oberwesel, Boppard with a bike/train mix minus whatever we did not do first afternoon

Pat you are probably correct on Boppard and I maybe should have landed there as a base :/
KGC thanks for the biergarten rec! Your picnic idea sounds phenomenal as well.
Also, does having the car help me optimize in any way?

In Bacharachneatbat Cafe Bistro Moy. For a lighter meal ( doner, puzza ) across rhe street. Very good value. I usually have to make sure they charged me for everything is so inexpensive !

The chairlift in Boppard is one of my favorite activities. the view coming back down is excellent. The Liebfrauenkirche ( big red church by the train station) in Oberwesel is one of my favorite churches. Much different than other churches

The tourist information office in Bacharach is very helpful.

Walk the Malers Winkel in Bacharach

I do wonder if we could mix bike/train and just visit Oberwesel & St.
Goar/Rheinfels in tandem like Russ also suggested.

I didn't mean to suggest that - if I did. I was just thinking a nice bike ride, wherever you think that is, without any specific sightseeing strings attached. If it were me, half a day with the bike would suffice. Yes, you can put bikes on a train, sometimes tickets are required. But IME the Rhine trains get crowded enough with passengers, even in the dedicated bike spaces, that this idea appeals to me not one tiny bit. And I just wouldn't want to bother with the bicycle if I were walking the Oberwesel old town wall, or touring Rheinfels Castle in St. Goar. I'd ride in the morning, drop the bike around noon, find lunch, then head to Boppard (as I think I suggested.) Or if you don't want to do Boppard, just drive to Oberwesel/St Goar in the afternoon.

The appearance of LUXEMBOURG came as a shock. Do you need tips for a drive to other nearby destinations that might interest you? Places that might appeal...

The Günderodehaus (on the clifftops just outside Oberwesel)
The Hängeseilbrücke
Beilstein (Mosel River, see Rick Steves)
Other nice Mosel River towns
The Rheinland-Pfalz Open Air Museum in Bad Sobernheim

Thanks Big Tyke...I believe Boppard may need to find its way into our plans at least for a half day. It sounds right up our alley. I am thinking if we visit Rheinfels on our first evening before checking in, then our last day can be spent enjoying Oberwesel and Boppard at a leisurely pace.

Russ I've read so many of your comments on this forum and therefore highly respect your opinions. It sounds like the biking isn't as big a draw as maybe some activities in the area maybe based on having to transport them. My hotel did verify that I could rent overnight and store them there so we may use them for the Boppard/Oberwesel day. We'd have no problem locking them up somewhere while exploring but still all under consideration.

Let me clarify Luxembourg...the first half of our trip will be slow paced strolling the Alsace region and then coming here to do much the same. This may be an American "thing" but we love and do not mind a road trip and it seems as though Luxembourg City is around 2 hours or so from Bacharach by car. We are intrigued by the layout and history of this city and it's fortifications. We are also very much interested in the core of sights in Trier either on the way to or from Lux. I know this will be an early rise and a long day and it may honestly be too much, but we tend to always include a day like this in our travels. I also wasn't sure if just one day in the Mosel would give it its proper due and thus we may need to return. I'd love to see the Cologne cathedral, Eltz Castle, Cochem, etc. But we felt this would be a good adventure for a day. HOWEVER, I am very much all ears to staying in the area and leaving LUX as its own separate adventure someday. We do want to see Trier though...would it be better to combine that with Eltz for a big day by car? Lastly, does the Pfalz train ticket work for us on the day we would train Bacharach to Bingen, then St. Goarshausen to Braubach for Marksburg, then Braubach back to Bacharach? Thanks for all replies. Awesome forum.

I also wasn't sure if just one day in the Mosel would give it its
proper due and thus we may need to return. I'd love to see the Cologne
cathedral, Eltz Castle, Cochem, etc. But we felt this would be a good
adventure for a day. HOWEVER, I am very much all ears to staying in
the area and leaving LUX as its own separate adventure someday.

My surprise at the LUX outing wasn't a jab at LUX - it's an interesting place to spend some time, and with beautiful countryside nearby and nice towns, castles, and WW II sites to explore. It's a great place for touring on 4 wheels And with Trier and Saarburg in close proximity across the border, in addition to some other things to do along the German Mosel (Roman wine ship cruise in Neumagen? Reconstructed Roman Villa in Mehring? Half-timbered Bernkastel?), I think combining Trier and Luxembourg makes infinite sense. (Biking too... I am not a biking nut, but what Mosel biking I've done was more fun than the Rhine biking.) But to do both Lux and Trier "justice", as they say, probably not as a day outing from Bacharach but rather as a location for a multi-day visit like the one you are doing in Bacharach. Lux + Trier + a 4-hr car trip from Bacharach for me would be "overdoing it" as you put it. I've flown into LUX a few times - nice smallish airport. If you think you'll be visiting this area later, that would be my approach. And for your driving-day tradition, head out from Bacharach on a more conservative loop to places of your choice near your base town.

How about a Nahe River Valley tour? Bad Sobernheim, Kirn, Idar-Oberstein?
https://imgl.aklex.de/18/15b2105eb5b337.jpg
https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractions-g315838-Activities-oa0-Idar_Oberstein_Rhineland_Palatinate.html

I could see eltz + Trier in a day with an early start and a late return. From Bacharach, a car is a good way to hit Eltz. You won't likely have time for dawdling or side journeys, however.

Lastly, does the Pfalz train ticket work for us on the day we would train Bacharach to Bingen, then St. Goarshausen to Braubach for Marksburg, then Braubach back to Bacharach?

Yes. But only after 9 on weekdays. So this itin. is best on Sat or Sun if you plan to hop on a train prior to 9 am. Otherwise, buy a normal DB train ticket for Bacharach to Bingen Rhein Stadt + the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket.

Thank you Russ, and great to know this. I believe we will shoot for train after 9 from Bach to Bingen, 11:15 cruise to St. Goarshausen and spend a little time in Braubach before 4pm Marksburg tour and back to Bach. So the Pfalz ticket looks like the answer here and that would be great!

I wanted to come back and thank everyone for their comments and advice post-trip. Our 4 days on the Rhine were a ton of fun and memorable indeed. Here are a few highlights or notes based on the experiences we had...

• We drove directly to Rheinfels Castle from the Alsace region before heading to Bacharach where we would stay for 4 nights. Rheinfels was undergoing some renovations, so it may have been this or the fact that it is hyped so much. While it was a solid visit, I left a bit underwhelmed.
• I was nervous based on some of the things I'd read on the forum and darned near switched our lodgings to Boppard. However, I must say that I have zero regrets about staying in Bacharach, and particularly in the balcony room with A/C and breakfast at the wonderful Altkolnischer Hof hotel. We found Bacharach to be the best town we explored and were happy it served as our base.
• Russ, I didn't listen to you and I should have regarding the biking. We rented bikes at 9am in Bacharach, rode to Bingen and caught the 11:15AM KD boat from Bingen to St. Goar. From there we biked to Oberwesel and visited it and then biked back to Bacharach with a last stop at Klein Brauhaus. While we didn't NOT enjoy the biking, it simply paled in comparison to a bike day we had earlier in the week on the Routes des Vins in Alsace. I honestly felt the route from Bacharach to Bingen was way overhyped by RS...many trees in blocking view and just...decent. The boat ride MORE than made up for it as that was a highlight of the trip. Plus, on Thursdays the boat gives bike riders 2 for 1 tickets (an unexpected plus). BUT I do wish we would have done as Russ suggested...train to Bingen, boat to St. Goarshausen, train to Marksburg, train back to Bacharach for that day. We never ended up getting to Marksburg and I regret it :/
• On our road trip day, we drove to Landhotel Muhle for 8:30am and hiked to Burg Eltz. There was no one else on the trail and in 30 minutes around the castle, we encountered 2 other couples. It was a beautiful, quiet and crisp cool morning at this wonderful place. We did not tour it and drove on to Trier where we spent an excellent laid back afternoon exploring the platz and historic sights. We stopped at Machern Brauhaus on the way back for a great cap to a highlight day.
• Our last full day, my wife chose what we'd do. I was interested in a day trip via train to Cologne but she chose to stay local and we trained to Boppard. We toured the Promenade and church and made it up the Sesselbahn and spent a solid 2 hours just sitting and having beers at Gedeonseck. Again, a major highlight. The view, the weather and the beer...man! In the afternoon we just headed back and leisurely wandered Bacharach. We were going to try Marksburg but it just seemed like such a pain to get to and I think we missed our window. Again, wish we would've done it with the boat and swapped Oberwesel to the Boppard day...but I digress. No regrets other than that!
• I will say that on our early AM drive to Burg Eltz, I was highly impressed by the towns we passed on the Mosel. It seemed quiet, tranquil, and the biking looked better. We would like to come back and spend time here.
• Best meals we had...Altkolnischer Hof and Altes Haus, both in Bacharach...by far.

Thank you again for the advice, it was a wonderful time!
- List item

It was very kind of you to come back to the forum with your post-trip impressions.

Outlining what you actually managed to accomplish makes a good case for how much there is to do on the Rhine - and how insufficient a day trip or a single night can be. Even 4 days can slip away there quickly.

I think Rheinfels is and will always be less whelming than Marksburg. I hope when you return to visit the Mosel (where the biking is definitely more relaxed and the landscape more bucolic) that you will also find time for Marksburg - or Burg Eltz. The interiors are very different, but both tours are top notch.

Sounds like your wife made a sound choice by opting for the Boppard chairlift and Gedeonseck!

For others making the hike to Burg Eltz: the hotel name at the base of the trail to Eltz is the Ringelsteiner Mühle. The site below has a map of the hike and some nice photos of the walk and the castle.

https://www.isytravelyogi.com/post/wandern-zur-burg-eltz-am-elzbach-entlang

Thanks Russ, and I agree, we left with a few more ideas in mind. The Mosel has our full attention for next time. My goal was to tour Eltz or Marksburg. We could have toured Eltz, I sort of wish we would have. But we were extremely fulfilled with the early AM hike and simply basking in the marvelous exterior and grounds. Also I think the hike from the Muhle hotel was just the perfect amount of time to "experience" the forest walk that so many others have suggested. We could've driven right up to it but opted to hike a bit and were very pleased with that decision. It was a very special morning for us and an incredible castle. Nice call on Gedeonseck, just wow! Really a very nice area. Also I must add we had a wonderful wine tasting in Oberwesel with owner Stephan at Weiler Fendel. His Pinot Blanc was fantastic and we bought a bottle. We very much enjoyed our short time in Oberwesel.

OP. If you do return for the Mosel, I expect you will love it. Russ and KGC’s advice led us to the Mosel, which we cycled last week. Plus, we turned the corner at Koblenz - a really nice city - to venture on to Boppard and Marksburg.

So many beautiful small towns and villages were along the Mosel, with fairy tale half-timbered buildings, wine bars (Riesling troken [dry], bitte), vineyards and views. The river and hillsides were almost always in unobstructed view all the way from about 5 to 7 miles downstream from Trier until to very close to Koblenz.

Koblenz was great. Lively city, great vibe, more of an old town than I expected to see, beautiful parklands along the riverside south of town on the way to Boppard. We had a nice dinner at a pan-Asian restaurant in Koblenz, outdoors and along the Rhine, An Nam. https://annam-restaurant.de/

Our TR for the Mosel journey and our peek of the Rhine is at https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/sw-germany-and-e-france-part-1-of-4

Your comparison of the Rhine cycle with the Alsace cycle,

it simply paled in comparison to a bike day we had earlier in the week on the Routes des Vins in Alsace

whets my appetite. We’ll be there next week!

Are you posting a TR about the rest of your journey?