Guidance needed on the cheapest way to travel by train in Germany!

I suggest that the expenditure of time and cash to travel west to Baden-Baden and then east again, just for Baden-Baden, is totally unnecessary and bordering on wasteful. You don't have enough time for Berlin, Munich and Nuremberg as it is. If you're dying for a spa treatment you could possibly stop in one of the country's top spa towns, Bad Wörishofen, as you travel between Munich and Füssen.

You will do alright using the Bayern Ticket for trips between Munich, Füssen, and Nuremberg.

Bayern Ticket

You should look into advance-sale saver fare tickets for getting to Leipzig and Berlin.
Saver Fares

Hi Russ,

That's interesting. If I took your advice and didn't go to Baden Baden, is there somewhere more convenient in between Füssen and Nuremberg? I could cancel my Air BnB reservation if it doesn't make sense to go to Baden Baden. Think I was just trying to see the Black Forest.

Baden-Baden is only technically in the Black Forest - not like BF towns at all.
"...is there somewhere more convenient in between Füssen and Nuremberg?"
"Somewhere"? Not sure what you want to see but there are many nice places you might visit before Nuremberg. Augsburg is a nice city. Nördlingen is a very attractive old-world town w/ town wall and defensive ramparts. Bad Windsheim is an attractive town with a fantastic open-air museum:

Bad Windsheim
Freilandmuseum

Or you might visit Nuremberg, then Bamberg. Bamberg is a UNESCO World Heritage town filled with lots to see and famous for its smoke beer and brewery-restaurants. Bamberg could be a day trip from Nuremberg - no need to change accommodations - but it's also on the way north.

Bamberg

Hi Russ,

Thank you very much for your reply.

So with my two days that I would have spent in Baden Baden (24 - 26 July) do you think it would be worth spending 1 day in Bad Windsheim and then an extra day in Nuremberg (where I was previously only staying for 1 day) in order to see Bamberg?

Once I've established this, I may then pick your brain on tickets. Thank you..

I assume you're going to Füssen for Neuschwanstein (not a real castle, IMHO not worth the time, but it's your trip...) but why 2 nights there? I would slice off at least a day there so that you have 3 more days to work with. Some just do Füssen by day trip from Munich.

You've got a lot on your plate as it is but I think this might work OK:

Munich (2 nights)
Füssen (1 night)
Nuremberg (2 nights)
Bamberg (stopover for several hours on the way Leipzig, 1 night in Leipzig + the following day.)
Berlin (4 nights but arrive there late on night 1 after seeing Leipzig.)

" If I took your advice and didn't go to Baden Baden, is there somewhere more convenient in between Füssen and Nuremberg?"

If it's the spa experience you seek, go for the absolute best in Germany: Therme Erding, a mere 10 minute taxi ride from the Munich airport. Nürnberg also has a pretty good one in Kristall Palm Beach, although smaller.

The mountains of the Black Forest around Baden-Baden are pretty indistinguishable from all the other low mountain ranges that criss-cross southern and central Germany. You're not missing a whole lot you won't see elsewhere, and the BF pales in comparison to the Alps.

You didn't mention when in July you're traveling, but if it coincides with the International Samba Festival in Coburg, you'll definitely want to take the time to see this if you're in the vicinity of Bamberg. I stumbled upon this festival quite by accident last year and I had a great time. Coburg is a gorgeous little city to visit anytime (especially for it's castle, which I think is the best in Germany), but during the Samba Festival the entire Altstadt resounds with beats of dozens of drum bands. Repeat- if you're in the area, DON'T MISS IT!

I can't agree with Russ about the Black Forest. Sure, the mountain can't compare with the Alps, but then, IMO, most of the Alps can't really compare with my Rockies. I've spent over three weeks total in the northern Black Forest. It has some very nice towns and great spas. I particular like the town of Bad Wildbad with it's Palais Thermal. I've been to Baden-Baden, but it's too big and not that quaint. I spent a day there and wasn't impressed. Still, I agree with others, it's too far out of the way for this trip.

If you stay in Bavaria - Munich, Füssen, Nürnberg, ? - all of your travel is pretty short and you can use a Bayern-Ticket for far less than an Interrail pass. Depending on how much time you want to spend as a stopover in Leipzig, you can book Nürnberg to Berlin as a single Savings Fare ticket starting at 29€ for one, 49€ for two. Savings Fare tickets allow an overnight stopover. Start in Nürnberg in the morning, get to Leipzig around noon, spend the afternoon and night in Leipzig and leave for Berlin the next morning. As long as you get to Berlin by 10 AM the next morinig, it should be one ticket.

"I can't agree with Russ about the Black Forest. Sure, the mountain can't compare with the Alps, but then, IMO, most of the Alps can't really compare with my Rockies."
??? I think Lee does agree with me - must have confused me with someone else. I really like the BF - just not Baden-Baden. If you had the time, the Black Forest would be worth the trip. Just too far considering your other destinations.

"I've been to Baden-Baden, but it's too big and not that quaint. I spent a day there and wasn't impressed."
Agree again, not worth the trip, even if you had the time.

Thanks everyone for your contributions.

I have now cancelled my accommodation in Baden-Baden and have 3 days to spend in Nuremberg and Bamberg - should I do 2 in Nuremberg and 1 in Bamberg? Or other way around?

You can stay in Nuremberg the whole time, and visit Bamberg as a day trip. They are both in the VGN, aka the Greater Nuremberg Transit District. That means you can get something called a Tages Ticket Plus. This is a single day ticket covering up to 6 people for all day after 9 am weekdays (all day weekends) for 18 euro when bought from a vending machine. Add 2 euro to buy from a ticket window. Only local trains, no IC or ICE trains. The eligible trains are at 41 past the hour and take 43 minutes, or at 49 past the hour and take 57 minutes. You also get to use local buses during the time of validity (3 am the next day).
The last direct train back to Nuremberg is at 10:36 pm, but if you turn into a pumpkin, there are ways to get back using a train/bus combination after midnight.

Great, thanks Sam.

So my trip now looks like this:

Munich (2 days)
Füssen (2 days)
Nuremberg (3 days to include Bamberg)
Leipzig (1 day)
Berlin (2 days)

All accommodation is booked. Do you all think it is cheaper to get tickets as we go rather than inter rail? Feel free to offer any alternatives.

Thank you very much.

If your lodging is booked, I suggest you buy tickets now that are nonrefundable. You can get a direct ICE train from Nuermberg to Leipzig for as low as 29 euro for 2. The walk up price is 136 euro for 2. Same situation Leipzig to Berlin. Buy tickets at www.bahn.com and print them at home and bring along with the credit card you used to buy them.
Munich use city tickets, and Bayern Tickets to get to Fuessen and Fuessen to Nuremberg.

Hi Sam,

Do you know whether I have to book on specific times? If so, that may be tricky doing in advance as I don't have our itineraries planned when we are there. Thanks again.

Nonrefundable Bahn tickets are also non-changeable. Just like the airlines, which they learned it from. You asked in your OP for the cheapest, not the most flexible, which is usually the most expensive. Perhaps you were thinking of railpasses, but those are seldom the cheapest anymore, and often require annoying seat reservations.

You said you had your accommodations booked. You look at the trains going the day you check out from Nuremberg. so you have a list of train departure times with the price for the nonrefundable ticket on that exact train. Look at the direct trains to Leipzig in the morning, I'm looking at July 16 as an example. I see direct ICE trains at 7:02 for 29 euro for 2, 8:34 for 29 euro for 2, 9:06 for 61 euro for 2, 11:07 for 29 euro for 2.
All of these take between 3 1/2 to less than 4 hours. Pick the one you want and commit to it.

Thanks so much for your ideas Sam/Tim.

You're quite right - it's so much cheaper to buy the Bayern tickets than it is to buy an inter rail. I've planned all the trains now - thanks a lot for your help!

I notice that the Bayern tickets say they cannot be used before 9am from Monday - Friday. Two of my planned trains start at 08:34 and 07:31 - will I not be allowed to use a Bayern ticket then? :(

rhiannon, if you want to start before 09:00 (and it is not the weekend), the trick is to buy a ticket to the first stop the train makes after 09:00 as well as a Bayern ticket. This requires a little timetable research to find the first stop the train makes after 09:00. You also need to check if it is still cheaper to use a Bayern Ticket.

You can buy a Bayern ticket before 09:00 (or for a date in the future), you just can't use it before 09:00.
There is a small surcharge for buying a Bayern Ticket (or and other Länder ticket) from a manned desk. It is cheaper from a machine.
Bayern tickets ARE NOT valid on IC or ICE trains, just on what they call "local transport".

"Nuremberg (3 days to include Bamberg)"

Although you CAN use a Bayern ticket for outings while you're in Nuremberg, there is a better option.

For Bamberg, one of them is a regular ticket, which is €10.80 each way from a ticket machine. DB does not sell these tickets; VGN, the local transit authority, sells tickets for regional and local trains on this route, also offers a day pass called the "Tagesticket Plus." This day pass has no weekday hours restrictions and costs €18 for 1-2 adults - also a better deal than the Bayern Ticket for a round trip to Bamberg. You can buy these tickets from the same regular ticket machines in Nuremberg station where you would buy the Bayern Ticket, and you use the same trains as you would with the Bayern Ticket. If you use the Tagesticket Plus on a Saturday, it is valid for another journey on Sunday too.

Map of the rail lines around Nuremberg where VGN tickets are valid

If you are talking about the 8:34 ICE from Nürnberg to Leipzig and the 7:31 ICE from Leipzig to Berlin, 1) ICEs are not covered by Länder-Tickets (like the Bayern-Ticket), and 2) Leipzig to Berlin isn't even in Bavaria (Bayern), so no travel from Leipzig to Berlin would be covered by a Bayern-Ticket. Those two legs should be booked as advance purchase, Saving Fare tickets, which don't have any time constraints. And, as I mentioned earlier, if you book Nürnberg to Berlin as one ticket, leaving Nürnberg early and spending the day and night in Leipzig, then getting up and to Berlin by 10 AM, you can book it on one Savings Fare ticket (with a stopover).

For a number of days in late July, I see Nürnberg to Leipzig, ICE 1612, dep 7:02, and Leipzig to Berlin, ICE 1716, dep 7:31 (next morning), fare 19€ - time in Leipzig 20h37m. I can also see the trains I think you were talking about, at 8:34 and 7:31, giving you 19h27m in Leipzig, for 19€.

Hi all,

I don't understand why DB Bahn website lets me purchase a 29 euro ICE ticket (e.g. Nurnberg - Leipzig, Leipzig - Berlin) if it doesn't cover it?! Confused.

I don't understand why DB Bahn website lets me purchase a 29 euro ICE ticket (e.g. Nurnberg - Leipzig, Leipzig - Berlin) if it doesn't cover it?! Confused.

What Deutsche Bahn is selling you is a discounted regular ticket, not the regional Länder ticket that allows you unlimited travel within a specified geographic area.

Ahh, thanks Tom!

The trains you indicated (e.g., ICE 1612) are express trains (ICE/IC/EC) of the Bahn. They are not covered by Länder-Tickets (which are limited to regional trains), but they are covered by standard or by SparPreis tickets.

In addition to standard (full fare) tickets, you have a choice of:

SparPreis (or Savings Fare) tickets. These are advance purchase, online tickets that start at 29€ from anywhere in Germany to anywhere else in Germany. The ticket must include at least one leg on a train of the Bahn (ICE/IC/EC) and those trains are specific (date and time) to the ticket (i.e., the ticket is not valid for any other train on that route). Tickets go on sale at the lowest price 92 days before the date of travel. The tickets are "tiered"; when the lowest priced tier sells out, the price goes up. On some popular routes, the lowest priced tickets sell out in hours, if not minutes.

Länder-Tickets, or regional tickets (such as the Bayern-Ticket in Bavaria), are all-day passes for a Land (state) in Germany. They are valid for unlimited travel on regional trains in that state¹ from midnight weekends or 9 AM workdays until 3 AM the following day. Länder-Tickets never sell out; they are always available for the set price from automats in the train stations or for 2€ more from a ticket counter.

¹ Länder tickets often include travel to a "border" station in another Land or country, or loops of track just outside the Land. In some cases multiple Länder (such as Hamburg with a Niedersachsen ticket or Sachsen, Sachsen-Anhalt, and Thüringen as one ticket) are included in one ticket.

I would price out the point to point prices versus a pass. We just did 30 days in Europe and I used point to point everywhere. I don't know how convenient passes are but I had no trouble keeping up with the paper. I agree about Fussen being a day trip from Munich. We took a tour from Munich and saw Neuschwanstein and Linderhof Castles. We could easily have done this on our own via train from Munich but we thought we wouldn't have enough time for both. Between castles, our bus took us to a cute little town whose name escapes me. It was very touristy. My biggest regret was not buying a cuckoo clock I saw in a shop in this town. They would have shipped it home directly for me. I decided I would wait and shop around. Bad move. It was a great day, though. I do not regret booking the tour although it was more expensive than on our own. But we love organized tours, many don't.

We booked all our hotels within walking distance of the train stations and it worked out well for us. We were in Munich 3 nights and liked the idea of being settled for a few days.

Jenny

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Funny you should say this, Lee. We're from Boulder and were amazed that our Rockies, we thought, were prettier than the Alps. Nothing like travel to put your life into perspective.

Jenny

Just wanted to thank you all for your assistance. We had an amazing trip.

You can still get that cuckoo clock you were interested in. There are a limited number of Black Forest clock makers and a handfull of U.S. importers buy clocks from them and stock them in the states. I think one of them is located in Colorado. A few shops online sell them too but you might have to look through a lot of clocks to find one you are interested in. Bavarian Clockworks has a nice selection of authentic cuckoo clocks. But maybe you should hold off since you have a legitimate excuse to go back to Europe soon!