Getting to non-tourist locations

Rome2Rio.com is a good place to start checking for bus service, which is what you'll often find available to small towns--especially small towns in mountainous areas. There seem to be buses to both Weil im Schonbuch and the Stubaital. For specific sites like the castle, I'd suggest Googling (bus to XXX). That will usually turn up either a link to a bus schedule or an earlier inquiry on this board, Lonely Planet's ThornTree, or TripAdvisor.

For trains, the Deutsche Bahn website is a better place to look for complete schedules.

Hohenzollern castle is accessible by train and bus. There are regular trains from Stuttgart to Hechingen Bhf and a couple of buses a day from Hechingen Bhf to the base of the castle hill. I walked a short distance into town and took a taxi to the castle. The train and bus schedules can be found on the Bahn website.

The same is true for Weil im Schönbuch. The Bahn website shows routes to a lot of bus stops in Weil, including Breitenstein Rathaus.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the Eurail site". A lot of people mean RailEurope, and I would not expect RailEurope to give this kind of information. Eurail does have a schedule finder, but I would expect the Bahn site to be better. The Bahn show bus connections; Eurail only shows trains.

good tip on the Deutch Bahn, I will take a look.

I should mention, we're going from Paris to Germany, to Zurich, to Venice to fly out and hoping not to spend $1000+ on rail with seeing local places in between without needing to schedule everything into an itinerary.

I buy my train (and bus) tickets at the last minute. I make a point of always looking at all the options available around the time of my preferred departure, considering both trip duration and cost. Sometimes the fast trains cost a lot more in percentage terms when they only save 10 or 15 minutes. Of course, that will not be the case on a really long trip.

I wouldn't choose an 8- or 10-hour bus trip if I had an alternative, but up to medium-distance trips I will take buses if they are noticeably cheaper than the train. In fact, I find buses comfortable enough that I sometimes take a bus just because the bus station on one end of the trip is more conveniently located.

"We're looking to go to smaller locations without the large tourist draw. However, it seems mass trasit is limited for this desire."

This generalization is mostly untrue. The extensive German Railway system serves German citizens first and foremost. Working folks often live in non-touristy towns and/or commute to work in non-touristy cities. You will find no shortage of towns - towns with stations, and often towns that have interesting things to see and do - where tourists have rarely set foot.

Where did you hear that Weil im Schönbuch has no rail service? Here's a schematic of the rail line it's on:
http://www.weg-bahn.de/strecken-fahrplaene/linie/2-schonbuchbahn

I am unfamiliar with Breitenstein.

I'm fairly certain that if you share with us a region or two that you'll be visiting in Germany, you will find suggestions from people on this board for dozens of interesting, small, untouristy towns that you can reach by rail.

Gotta say, I love this forum and is the first time I've used one of any kind. Thank you all.
Ok, so I am now comfortable we'll have no trouble getting transportation to non-tourist locations. So the next question is cost: Is there an "unlimited" pass of sorts to use as many trains and buses as we need for 7-10 days? Again, we'll be dipping into Switzerland, possibly Austria and need to get to Venice for our flight home.

Another curveball for the group: I have enough points to rent a car for the week for under $50 (assuming I return it to the same location). We'd rather take trains/buses to enjoy views, read, etc but not at a massive unnecessary expense if we'll be paying 10+EUR for any time we decide to jump off/on a bus/train. Again, with a rental car, we'd still need fuel, and rail travel into Germany from France and out of Germany to Italy for our flights so we'd incur that rail cost either way.

Sorry for the detail, obviously first timer...
Thank you

and hoping not to spend $1000+ on rail with seeing local places in between without needing to schedule everything into an itinerary.

That statement seems to rule out a Eurail Pass, which is not good on buses anyway.

Spend a little time going through this page from Deutsche Bahn, which has great ways for 2 or more people to save with Laender tickets and Quer Durch Lands tickets.
https://www.bahn.com/i/view/GBR/en/prices/germany/regional-offers-overview.shtml
Switzerland is expensive no matter how you cut it.
You should do just a bit of itinerary planning for long distance trips on French TGVs, as "last minute" prices are steep, when you could save 75% by buying nonrefundable tickets a month or two in advance. Italy is pretty cheap.

I have never rented a car in Europe, but from reading this forum and guidebooks I have learned about some related expenses that you may not be anticipating.

First, be sure you understand the insurance situation. Many people comment that (irrespective of what kind of coverage their US auto insurance may provide) they are most comfortable paying for the zero-deductible CDW as part of European rentals. That way they don't have to worry about real or alleged damage to the car. If something does happen, the rental company isn't going to charge a large deductible amount to their credit card and leave them to try to recover that cost from their insurance carrier. However, adding on that insurance can sharply increase the cost of the rental, and I'll bet your $50/week deal doesn't cover any extra insurance. I have no idea whether your insurance situation is such that you need to pony up for rental-car coverage in Europe, but many other people who technically don't need it have decided to buy it. The time to make that decision is when you're looking at comparative costs, not when you are standing jet-lagged at the rental counter.

Second, several countries (including Switzerland and Austria for sure) require a vignette for driving on some or all of their roads. Others have tolls. And of course gas is far more expensive in Europe.

ViaMichelin.com has a cost-estimator that makes an effort to include all the direct costs of driving a route you specify: gas, tolls, etc. (but not insurance). It would be worthwhile to rough out a possible itinerary, just as a starting point, and price out each leg to get an idea of what your trip might cost by car.

Re: Railpasses. Sad to say, the multi-country railpasses are rarely cost-effective, and certainly not for a trip like yours that covers a comparatively small geographic area (only northern Italy, only southern Germany). Sometimes there's a single-country pass that makes sense for a traveler covering a lot of ground in that country, but I don't think that's going to apply in your case.

But Germany has a lot of special deals, as Sam mentioned. When you have a moderately solid idea of where you want to base yourself and what side-trips you intend to take, there are people here who can help you figure out which of the special German transportation deals will be cheapest.

Just a general tip, and not just for Germany: When you want to visit smaller towns via public transportation (especially via bus), you'll generally find it easier if you're based in the same administrative area, because transportation links tend to be regional. So if you want to visit a bunch of towns in Lombardy, best not to try to do it from a hotel in Tuscany. It just so happens that--at least in Germany--the best transportation deals seem to be on trips made within an individual state, so such trips are cheaper as well as easier.

About the rental car for $50/week, check which kind of car you are eligible for. If they sent you any car classification code, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACRISS_Car_Classification_Code I bet it's a subcompact car only. That may be okay for two persons+luggage.

In addition check whether your $50/week car has automatic transmission. I bet it has not. And there is a hefty surcharge on automatic transmission cars, they are uncommon in Europe. Subcompacts are often not even available with automatic transmission. If you can't drive stick, that may rule it out for you. Gas is expensive but European cars don't need so much fuel so it's not gonna make you poor. For two or more persons travelling, the car is usually cheaper than regular price on the trains.

hoping not to spend $1000+ on rail with seeing local places in between without needing to schedule everything into an itinerary.

While you can save a lot of money, especially on weekends, with last-minute group tickets, your longer distance trains can be much cheaper if bought three months in advance, non-changeable, non-refundable, just like plane tickets. For example, Cologne-Brussels can be (from memory, not resarched) $35 if you plan ahead. Do you understand that Eurail and RailEurope are not the cheapest sites, nor are they comprehensive?

You haven't indicated how far in advance this is. Have you already read our host's (rick steves) general rail advice pages? He might also help you with issues like limited credit card acceptance in untouristed Germany.

"Is there an "unlimited" pass of sorts to use as many trains and buses as we need for 7-10 days? Again, we'll be dipping into Switzerland, possibly Austria and need to get to Venice for our flight home."

The details of your trip are getting slightly clearer but the waters are still muddy. Will you be in Europe for 7-10 days total? Or are you saying you have 7-10 train travel days within some longer period that you'll be in Europe (2 weeks? a month?) When is this trip? "We" = 2 adults??

Paris, Germany, Austria, Switzerland and Italy... It's ill-advised to attempt 5 countries if you only have 7-10 days total. Sort of becomes a fury of moving around, and memories can be a blur, you know? But what destinations do you have in mind in Switz., Austria, Italy and France, if any?

"...hoping not to spend $1000+ on rail with seeing local places in between without needing to schedule everything into an itinerary."

OK. Sounds to me like you aren't booking places in advance and prefer a nomadic approach. Assuming 2 adults, assuming you will be in Europe longer than just 7-10 days total, and assuming you will actually be traveling in all these countries, I think your preferences call for a 2nd-class German Rail twin-pass flexi (plus a few other tickets, see below.) 7 days = E408 for two, 10 days = E523 for two at the DB (official German Railways) website.

The GRP is now a multi-country pass (with limitations, that is) good for transport to Venice and to certain Austrian destinations (like Innsbruck and Salzburg.) You will need separate tickets for Paris into Germany, and for travel within Switzerland (except for one DB train route that passes through a small part of Switzerland via Schaffhausen.) Actually, there is contradictory information online about the GRP's usefullness in Switzerland. This website indicates that Munich-Zurich is possible with the GRP by IC Bus (a German Railways bus.) However, the official German Railways site says the opposite. Anyway, this probably doesn't affect you - you're going to small towns.

So if you're spending only around E400-500 for a GRP, you will have some cash reserves for separate, individual tickets for Paris-into-Germany and for Switzerland. (Of course, you might not need the GRP for 7-10 days of train travel if some of those travel days are in Switzerland or France using separate tickets. Maybe a 5-day GRP would be enough.) You should look into advance-sale saver fares from DB for these additional routes, as has previously been suggested. You save a lot over standard fares (but you must pin down your travel dates and times - at least it's only a couple of trips.) Within Switzerland: Check out also the "Super Saver" fares that Swiss Railways offer.

Honestly I would recommend you consider a car and a good navigation device with the latest maps. You can go where no public transportation will take you. You can schedule your own time lines. Parking will be difficult in some places. In many cities there is park and ride for public transportation. With a car you get a freedom for what you want to do and when you want to do it. Get outside of the worn tourist path. Take the secondary roads, explore and no vignette required. Stop when you want for a pause or overnight. Do a little research ahead for events in local areas. Enjoy a local event or place not recorded in Rick"s travels. Maybe you mark a new page? Of course you may have to deal with the traffic and Stau etc. I live here and rarely use public transportation, other then in the bigger cities to get around.

Also don't forget with a car that you may not be able to drive into a city center because they are often pedestrian only. You will have to pay for parking and that is usually not cheap. Do some searches on the forum as well about tickets people receive after they have arrived back home. European countries use traffic cameras to snap a picture of your license plate for speeding, entering restricted zones, etc and the rental company will forward your information so you get a ticket in the mail many months after your trip is over. European countries are much stricter than the US on speed limits, there is no "10 mph buffer zone" that many of us are used to.

Funny, you have to plan, even if your plan is to have no plan. Yogi Bera would appreciate that.

I found this thread interesting so I'll offer my two cents worth. Relative to the US$50 car—it sounds kinda like "if it's too good to be true. . ." as they say. As others have suggested I’d vote for the train. If your 7-10 days includes Paris, Zurich and Venice, why venture into Germany? One week or a week-and-three days isn’t too much time for a Paris-Zurich-Venice itinerary. Alternatively, is Zurich a “must” on your itinerary? As others have said, Switzerland is pricey, and if cost is a concern then you may want to drop Switzerland altogether and go via Germany. We had lunch in Lucerne a couple years ago; two salads, two glasses of water and bread was around US$50 and the salads weren't anything special.

If you do go to Germany have you checked for possibly using a railway hub in one or two different contiguous German states and doing day-trips to smaller towns? It looks like the cost per day for two people (2nd class) would be around Euro30. So if you took 6 trips it would only cost Euro180 and you could visit many smaller towns in 6 days. You’d have lodging in only two places.

Check [https://www.bahn.com/i/view/GBR/en/prices/germany/laender-ticket.shtml][1]

If you weren’t based on a Paris-Zurich-Venice travel route I’d suggest the northern areas of Germany--Hamburg, Schleswig-Holstein and Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania. Hamburg is a great city and is less “American touristy” than Munich, Berlin, etc. and is a railroad gateway to many towns to the north. Rostock would be a launching point for many smaller towns near the Baltic from Wismar on the west to Rugen Island on the east. You might meet folks on holiday but few would be Americans.

Maybe just hop a plane from Paris to Hamburg , travel the north, then fly from Hamburg to Zurich, or Venice. I checked an air fare site today and you could do the air between the three cities (Paris, Hamburg, Zurich) for about $250 each (I assume it would be similar if you substituted Venice for Zurich). Total travel cost for the German excursion: air US$ 500, train US$ 200. Similar train rates would apply to Baden-Württemberg and Bayern (Bavaria) it you want to stay in the south of Germany,

Do you understand that Eurail and RailEurope are not the cheapest
sites, nor are they comprehensive?

That observation is correct for RailEurope, but not for Eurail. Eurail does not sell point-point tickets, only rail passes and reservations. Eurail does have schedules for trains. As far as I can tell, they are as comprehensive for Germany as is the Bahn, but they don't show bus and other non-rail connections, which the Bahn does.

RailEurope prices are higher because it is a ticket reseller and adds a margin to the price you would pay directly from the rail company. They only show schedules for tickets they sell, which are generally only the fastest most expensive trains.

As far as I can tell, they are as comprehensive for Germany as is the Bahn, but they don't show bus and other non-rail connections, which the Bahn does.

IIRC the reason bahn.de has extensive schedules for the whole of Europe was, their (DB) contribution to that affiliated group Eurail was creating a whole-europe train schedules website. So they have the data anyway.